I have a burrow under my barn, which conveniently gives me about a 20 yard shot from my little garage door running parallel to the side of the barn. I have shot 2 Ground squirrels last fall with a 22lr, both were able to go back in their hole, but at least I saw some blood trail confirming hits, but I know they expired from them not being seen in the following days... plus a recent find of bones from the new Vermin opening up the hole I closed.


So last week before a vacation I saw a new Squirrel found and opened up the hole, probably from the colonies at the neighbors. I got the new 17 HMR sighted in after the last 22 shootings, and saw a chance to snipe this bugger , before my son finds him...lol

He was sitting tail to the hole, full body side shot. Resting on the doorjamb, this gun is sighted 0.3" low at 25 yds so an easy shot with the 10 oz trigger, 12x scope and a gun that shoots 3/8" 10 shot groups.....

Unfortunately due to the close distance and "inside the garage" noise, I didn't hear a thump.... but was on target, he whirled and slid into his hideout. Looking for a possible miss, the Ground before and beyond is smooth walkway of dirt, wet from rains.... no streak from a low hit, or pass-through, and no blood?

So the absence of this vermin for the last 7 days indicates a good hit and kill..... I thought a 17 rem / 17 ballistic tip bullet ( Fed black tips) would have left me a pleasing pile of semi-hamburger.....


So, is it possible at that distance the bullet stayed in the bugger and left no blood trail? If not, I need to get the 204 out....lol


Allen

I have tried the 17HMR two different times and found it to be indeed an accurate round at greater range than any other rimfire, but lacking sorely in knockdown power for lack of a better word and no 'gore' or similar sign of a big hit like I get with the 22WMR. My experiences, others have a different view I am sure but I am done with 17cal rimfires.

If by "gore" you mean animals literally blown a part as in the hits made by 223.s and 22-250s, then IMHO you are asking to much. Even a 22 magnum will not do that past 100 yards.

Rimfire rounds are not 22-250s. Heck even a .22 Hornet hits literally twice as hard as any 22 magnum load.

They are the "Ultralights" of the Varmint rifle world. They kill but not like an RPG hit them.

This is an exit wound on a Jackrabbit taken at 175 yards from a 17HMR with 17g V max loads.

I shot three jacks down that fence line one right after another within about 2 minutes. They fell like dominoes at 40, 100 at 175 yard respectively.

All were killed with one round on the shoulder or ribs. I do not know what more can be asked of a rimfire rifle round.

Yep! I have to agree, I had a 17HMR and ended up selling it because of the less than expected results from hits with it, and another factor was the high cost of the ammo.

I was mulling over the results of it last year and so I borrowed a friends 17HMR and took it, and a selection of various manufactures ammo, to the gopher fields. I also took along my 22 lr, with a selection of hi-velocity hollow points, I shot them side by side for the day, at the end of the day I had more satisfying hits (massive damage, flips, etc) with the 22 lr than with the 17HMR, and at a much lower cost. The shooting took place from 20 yards out to slightly more than 100.

All told I had shot about 200 rounds of each caliber, this may not have been a scientific or definitive test but it was an eye-opener.

Perhaps the gophers did not have enough body mass to cause the 17HMR to expand or give the expected results all of the time? I don't really know. I am sure that others may have had different results but this was mine.

An anomoly - perhaps. But in a full days shooting I don't think so.

drover

I hit a 13-lined ground squirrel with the 17gr. VMax and cut it in two, literally whacked it in half. It's not quite as impressive on prairie dogs, but it's plenty destructive enough.

I'm thinking you must have got a grazing hit, if you'd hit him square, you should have had to wash off the wall of the barn.

IMHO, the .17 HMR is an unreloadable, high priced ammo'd meaningless caliber. Get a .17 AH and never look back.

Thanks for the input.

For sure his position meant I probably hit him mid section low, ie a paunch shot, but I thoroughly expected a splattering of blood below where he sat. I did suspect the bullet may not pass through, but at that close range thought it may have passed through, which neither seemed to be the case.


I never expected 223 type results, but I did expect more carnage than a 22 lr at that range, which I have done previously. Heck, if a 17 can do a pass through on a rabbit shoulder at 100 yds, my low belly hit should have also passed through and left blood.


There is the possibility I missed high enough I didn't see a bullet streak in the wet dirt, but he still hasn't shown himself, so either he expired or went back to the colony he came from.


Allen

I'm agree Allen. I like to be sure of a one shot quick kill as much as possible.

and the hummer delivers that, even with a paunch hit.....

You might check your math skills.

When you count the cost of your time and components, those 17AH loads cost twice what 17HMR ammo does when bought online @ $100 by the 500 round brick.

The jackrabbits I have shot with it sure do not think the 17HMR a "meaningless" round.

Neither of the hundreds of thousands of shooters who use it.

It's not for everyone. Some folks depend on raw power up make up for poor hits.

Unrecovered animals are proof of nothing- especially shot placement in that individual circumstance..

Naw.. they bounce off.

It's all about HOW they bounce.....

The .17HMR isn't my favoirite rimfire cartrridge but it is VERY DESTRUCTIVE on squirrel sized game with the v-max tipped bullets. If you had one run away you either just grazed it or completely missed.

I have to agree with the above post. After using a .17HMR in Montana on ground squirrels or gophers as the locals refer to them, the .17 is much more destructive than any .22 rimfire, and the closer the range, the greater the damage. IMO, the only way for there not to have been blood (or mangled tissue) at the point of impact from a 20 yard distance is that there was no point of impact. I have to believe you missed. And trust me, I have missed closer shots than that.

BS got rid of my 17AH because it was not worth the trouble when the HMR came out Russ

The gore the .17 HMR delivers is usually on the inside. It's a fairly explosive round, but will not deliver red mist like a centerfire caliber.

IMNSHO this round is without peer for shooting ground squirrels.

The CCI FMJ loads are less destructive and penetrate better. In fact, I've shot several good sized Louisiana feral hogs with this combo. Kills them dead. Of course it won't knock one down like a .308, but dead is dead. Good hog is a dead hog...

Those sorry things are wrapping us up around here. May not be as bad as Texas, yet...

We're working on preventing that.

DF

I've said it before and I'll say it again, if guy is looking for a .223 "lite" the 17 HMR will be a letdown. But if you want a .22 rf on steroids, the HMR is the ticket.

When some kind of small vermin needs to be killed around my place like pigeons, starlings, or shooting hundreds of ground squirrels, the HMR is simply a better tool than the .22 rf. No slam on the .22 rf either because I wouldn't be without one.

Hemiallen: I used my Ruger 77/17 V/T VERY SUCCESSFULLY just yesterday on a "bunch" of Ground Squirrels.
I shot a box of 50 rounds of 17 HMR Hornady V-Max ammo at ranges from 70 to 130 yards and every Squirrel that was hit was killt!
Over the last 7 -8 years I no longer shoot the pricey 17 HMR ammo at Gophers that can be reliably hit with MUCH cheaper ammo (20 yarders).
I have NO idea why your "Squirrel" got away or showed no signs of carnage but I do know that the 17 HMR with the ballistic tip type projectiles is THE most lethal rimfire munition I have ever used on Varmints (from Ermine to Coyotes!) in over 55 years of Hunting!
NONE of the 22 Magnums even comes close to the lethality manifest in the 17 HMR!
My 22 Magnums seldom ever come out of the vaults anymore!
The 17 HMR is so far superior in trajectory and wind bucking ability - and that is topped of by the amazing lethality of the tiny, speedy 17 caliber projectiles!
Easier to hit with (more accurate and having the superior ballistic performance!) and more lethal - no rimfire compares to the performance of the 17 HMR on Varmints!
I am GUESSING that you "winged" the Squirrel and the bullet passed through its edges, angling UP - maybe into the barn where its path was not later evident to you!
I think once you have about 9 years of EXTENSIVE in the field experience/useage of the 17 HMR, like I have, you will have no qualms what so ever about this wonderful rimfire cartridge.
No need to go to the wonderful centerfire (the 204 Ruger) for 20 yard shots.
Make a solid hit with the 17 HMR and your Varmint WILL be dead - most likely DRT.
Long live the wonderful 17 HMR.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

I agree100%. 17 AH or 22 AH with v-max will give the results you are looking for.

I've struggled with the round myself.... bang flop hits all too frequently...I am a red mist addict..

however my faith in the round for sage rats increased after switching to the 17grain and 20 grain Hollow Points..TNT and XTP depending on who's bullet it is..

both open up those little rats a lot more consistently than the 17 grain V Max does...

bang flop is still lethal, but I prefer the splat effect myself..

when using a 22 long rifle, I prefer the head shots... they die more animated that way.. a kin to a fish out of water, flopping all over the place...

For someone who is repeatedly failing to get clean, one shot kills on squirrels at 20 yards with a .22 or 17 HMR, I guess I'd have to recommend a cylinder bore 12 gauge stuffed with #8 trap loads. If that don't do it, hire a young boy with a pellet gun to take care of those pesky varmints for you.

+1 on the boy......

I spent all last summer with a Savage model 93 in a .17-HMR and I had no problems on most squirrels but sometimes I would get a pass through and the blessed critter would die under the barn.

We used several different brands and types of ammo and most was very accurate indeed. The best was Winchester brand and they shot 1/4 inch groups for 5 shots at 50 yards,well under 1/2inch at 75 yards when the wind was not blowing ok.

My beef with the .17-HMR was when I tried to down fox,coon and opsum with the small caliber. It is just not enough in my humble opinion. P-dogs ya and squirrels but that is about it really. I have found the .22mag to be much more in putting down larger critters around our place. The 50 grn bullet by Federal makes that .22mag a coyote caliber at 50 yards.

LOL

Pretty good memory Pardner.

I killed one early summer that I caught about 20 yards from the hole in the vineyard, knew he was heading for the barn and hit him good with #8 from a Browning Maxxus, actually rolled him about 20 feet before he got to the barn as he cleared the vines...

The Coyote was 10 yards further out when I plugged him with a 22lr, and I killed 2 squirrels at the hole, both made it the 1 foot back in the hole, as did this 17 HMR kill. It's been 8 days since I last saw him, I am sure he expired.I killed another by the railroad cars along our west property line, running away from me on a parked flatcar. Maxxus again, he was 2 carlengths when he got to the end, where I place the bead knowing he was going to stop and drop off the car. Stopped him on the car, nice birdshot pattern on the yellow car, not much blood out of him but he spun around for a good while.


I have killed many Ground squirrels with a 12ga in the last 40 yrs, many take 2 hard 12 ga hits before they stop dead....they are much tougher than the beldins most people call sage rats.


I have no problem pokin holes in Vermin and not being able to skin my kills because they scurry away, much better than the Poison many use around buildings, just started the post asking if I am expecting too much of the 17 HMR.


And I fit the Boy profile well , and I have killed a bunch of ground squirrels in the mountains with a .177 springer air rifle, it seems headshots are pretty lethal on them.


I'll take no offense to your attempt at harassment of my shooting skills, but I would come visit you in upstate NY, if you're still along the Susquehanna river I suspect you are close enough to Rochester, and learn from your many years killing vermin, maybe I can go on one of your hunts......


So thanks for your suggestions, I'll keep trying to get those one shot kills you suggest you must always get..

It's all good


Allen

I'm quite aways from Rochester but if you're ever headed to NY, sure, let me know and I'd be happy to take you hunting.

Thanks for the offer, never too old to learn....


Yea, I go to Rochester for work, actually will be there most of next month....

Been as far as Lake George, probably closer to you than Rochester.

I am pretty disappointed with the squirrel situation, I did pepper the barn with the Maxxus before I got the 17 scoped.... caught the vermin far enough out of the hole to only stick a few pellets in the wood..lol


Guess I'll take the 17 remington out next, as I step up in bullet size...lol


Allen

Actually I'm about halfway between Rochester and lake George. We don't have any ground squirrels here but we do have grey, red and fox squirrels. Probably not worth your time or money to pay for a non resident license just to hunt squirrels but if you'll be coming in the fall shoot me a pm and maybe we can arrange some deer hunting. Course, if you really want to hunt squirrels the season opens Sept. 1st. I've got some good spots and I'd be happy to take you.

Thanks


The Shot schedule currently stops Oct 1st ( Gov't physcal year end) but I usually have several weeks tied together that make for "stay-overs" in the first quarter schedule. Since we are weapons testing funded, the budget will probably keep us testing and me traveling.....

If I have a chance, would love to visit and chase game.


Allen

Just let me know. I've got lots of ground to hunt, both public and private, and usually go out after squirrels, turkeys, rabbits, grouse or deer several times per week fom Sept 1 right on through winter. Some good company would be welcome any time.

I started shooting prairie dogs in 1949 with a 22 RF ,some time after that used a 22WMR with the 22 RF. When the 17 HMR first came out I got a Cooper rifle. I liked the flat shooting 17 HMR but when the 17 HM2 round came out I got one. Since getting the 17 RF the 22 RF rifles stay at home. Most all of my shooting is prairie hunting. A few years ago before the plague and poison reduced the prairie dog population I shot a bit over 2,000 p dogs with the 17 RF rifles. For p dogs the 17 RF rifle are the best..

I have shot thousands of gophers. The 17Vmax is pretty destructive. Not as good as a 22WMR with top loads but much better than any 22LR loading.

The only gophers that survive a hit and crawl off at 125+ yards or less are ones hit on the far periphery. Any body shot results in instant death. 200 ft pounds per pound of target is like hitting a moose with a howitzer or a mac truck.

I find the 17HMR to be very deadly on all types of small varmints ground squirls in California, prairie dogs, gophers, and wood chucks in Wyoming. A bit light for wood chucks but under 50yd.s it takes them out. The best thing about the 17HMR is you can watch them die in the scope, no recoil. I find it to be a real fun acurate round. JMO
Steve

The guys that don't like the HMR for prarie dog and down self erecting targets are just dumb Russ

I like my .17 HMR. I only shoot about 100 rds a year squirrel hunting. It DRT's any Squirrel in these woods. I shoot the Speer TNT as it shoots the best out of my Savage 93. My buddy shoots the V-Max and he blows way bigger holes in them than I do.

I have had good luck with my 17 HMR against gophers, cotton tails and jack rabbits. My 17 HMR met its match against a crow at 60 yards. Put the cross hairs dead center in his chest and pulled the trigger. There was a very satisfying "Thwap", a cloud of black feathers and a crow flying away into the sunset...

Now my HMR has been recalled by Remington and it is being converted to a 22 mag. I am hoping it is still as much fun to shoot. I think it will be.

You will love the .22mag! I sure do now days since Federal brought out those 50 grain bullets and they do a great job on fox or coyotes under 50 yards.

You could have hit below or next to him. The bullet exploded and did some damage to him. That most likely resulted in his death in the hole.

A hit on a ground squirrel at close range with a 17 HMR would do a huge amount of damage. The round explodes and would take out a big chunk of his hide.

You must have hit some feathers and missed the body. A direct hit on the body would have resulting in a cloud of feathers and blood with the bird dropping to the ground.

I had a goph make it down his hole a foot or two after I hit him with a 300WSM. Couldn't believe it so I dug and found him.
Hit one with a 44mag right in the guts and he started to crawl off.
Just depends on how lucky the goph is to make it that last couple feet, I guess that's where the mist comes into play.

Nailed this one Saturday at about 100 yards.
Hummer with the tiny Vmax.

Jeez, Sam, Do ya jam that empty case betwixt his chompers before ya leave, as a message to let all his friends know not to mess with you?

Thanks

Yes, the picture depicts what I expected, maybe even more red fluid.

I am thinking I must have only hit him with pieces, not a whole bullet..... even though I couldn't find any streaks on the ground from a low bullet strike.


Allen

my 17 hmr has grenaded squirrels, chipmunks, birds, and raccoons since i got it 4 years ago...ive shot alot of squirrels in the 50-100 yard ranges and all of them had a big ol hole in them and dropped like a rock...shot a couple in a tree and the internals hit the ground before the body did...my favorite small game round, but i do still love my .22 lr

When shooting small critters at close ranges, I like to start with the .22 LR. Rimfire shooting is cheap and effective. Once the range gets into the 70-plus yards category, the .17 HMR is my choice. The simplicity of grabbing several guns and a couple hundred rounds of ammo for each is very appealing to me, so the rimfires are my preference.

The "little" centerfire cartridges (.17 Ackley Hornet, .17 Ackley Bee, .17 Jet, .17 Rem Fireball, .17 Mach IV, .19 Calhoon and a few others) are the next step up for longer ranges, higher velocity, more energy, better wind resistance and custom bullets. There is a trade-off that we all recognize, and that is the time we spend loading our ammo (or the expense of purchasing that stuff IF it is commercially available). The fun of reloading is part of shooting for me. I don't begrudge the time and effort. . it relaxes me after a hectic day of work.

If you are a red mist, triple-somersault type of rodent shooter, go for something bigger. (Bless you all, thank you, may your tribe increase).

Meanwhile these little rimfire ratsmackers are easy and fun. Pick your favorite and let the other shooters pick their own flavor. We don't want to un-invent the many choices offered by a free (so far!) society.

I've never owned a HMR but ordered one today...
I HAVE owned a HM2 though & have to say that even with the lower velocity (same bullet) the .17 flat smokes the LR for killing squirrels...this is a video of a HMR on hogs...towards the end, he gets a double ...(graphic)

I had a nuce benchrest style 17 HMR for prairie dogs. I sold it because it just didn't satisfy my needs. I want big splats at long ranges. I'm back to 223,22-250 ad 243. The 17 HMR is Ok in my book for drive bys.
I don't agree with Jim62 on this comment.
"It's not for everyone. Some folks depend on raw power up make up for poor hits."
The 17 HMR can't be in the same class as 223 and up. It has it's place and if it fits you shooting/hunting style then go for it.
Just my humble opinion.

Use it within it's limits and it works spectacularly. Personally, I like the V-max's and use them exclusively at my in-laws farm for ground squirrels. Hit 'em solid and there are no crawl offs.

I agree with this. I've shot thousands of ground squirrels with the round, and anything really violent is rare. But the round tears up the insides of the animal. With a good hit, they'll drop instantly.