Which one would you build for a fur friendly coyote round and which bullet would you shoot? If its to windy out I can just bring out the 25-06 ackley improved so wind drift isnt a huge thing.

.17 Remington loaded with 25grain Nagel T-000's or Berger Match targets. Turns them to soup inside.

BOTH!!!


Sheesh...you need to ask.....

ingwe I wish I could do both

My best recc is to go with the .223 and not a HP bullet, or better yet the same in 25:06 with 90 or 100 grain.

The .17 (I use Hornady 25 gr. HP) will mostly do as Ryan Otto noted when all goes correctly on a good body hit, but the coyotes out this way are TOUGH and sometimes still run off after a .17 hit. And, if you happen to hit a shoulder, hip or leg, the .17 HP likely will explode on the surface and you not only have a busted up hide, but probably a running coyote.

Just some humble experience.

I like my 17 Rem for fur friendly. But I run a 30 gn bullet from Woodchuck Den. I disagree with the concern about exploding on the surface. I did some testing shooting the head a bull elk and dissected it. It drilled holes in the bone.

If you read some old literature regarding the 17 calibers by P.O. Ackley on killing power, he devoted nearly 6 pages describing how he killed turkeys, javelina, deer, and even feral burros. He used 25 gn bullets for those shots and some were fairly long shots.

A gunsmith in Grand Junction that I know builds 17's for guys in Australia where they use them to shoot feral camels of all things. I think some of those are built in a 17 Hornet cartridge.

A friend of mine shot a beer bottle at 100 yds with a 17 Hee Bee. It drilled a hole through both sides without breaking it. He had a 17 Rem built by the smith in GJ with a tight twist and has killed well over 100 coyotes with it. I've been with him when they ran a ways, but one was a long shot in the wind and we watched it run about 200 to 300 yds before it ran out of steam and died.

Coyotes are tough, but it does the job, but if you want fur friendly, it's the ticket. There is hardly ever an exit hole. I shot a bobcat right down the middle at about 30 yds and it was hard to find the hole, it looked like the animal died of a heart attack. More damage is often done in skinning than that little bullet does to hides.

I will say though that at other times, I've seen the bullet hit and look like it might have been tumbling from hitting deflecting off of grass or brush and those hits are real ugly.
Other than that, the 223's seem to tear bigger holes in the hides to me and will exit more often, so you have 2 holes to sew.

My observations, FWIW.

Ive shot several dogs with the 17 Rem and 25 grain pills to know the damage they do.....internally. I will say this though, I have had a few take more than 1 hit before they died, but just the same I wouldnt be afraid to use it.

Now if I was shooting long distance I would choose the .223 AI over the .17

Hey how does a .17 AI sound??

shot four coyotes with the 17rem. and 25gr. bergers nice holes you really had to search for.but not hunting on snow it took too long to find them as they all ran aways hated to lose that prime calling time looking for dogs. went back to a bigger gun.

Ed

That's why I went to the 30 gn WC Den bullet. It slams them.

I should add that the 30 gn take a 1:9 or tighter twist. One of mine is 1:7 and the other 1:9 and both shoot the 30 gn bullets great.

If you are not going to take a shot going away from you, then the 17 Rem. If you are going to shoot one thru the hips going away, 223 Improved. 17 usually does not go very deep thru muscle. Nice thing about the 17 in the chest is you have to step on them to see where the blood bubbles out of the bullet hole to see where you hit...Russ

A .17 Remington loaded with 25gn Hornady Hollowpoints and Varget is a fur friendly combination.


This night way back in Feb 1999 I used my Rem 700.17Rem and bagged 16 foxes without too much if any pelt damage. We ended up with 60 foxes in 4 nights. The .17 Remington is without a doudt the best dedicated fox cartridge.

.17 Rem all the way.






Travis

17 Remington with 25 gr Bergers

Damn... I prolly only shot a half dozen with mine but they all died on the spot they were standing...nary a twitch.

223AI, hands down. The 17 has nothing on it except need different little [bleep] up cleaning rods and funnels.

Fox yep, coyote nope

I gotta give my .223AI and 50 vmaxes a go on a yote....

I like 50 gr Nosler BT in mine...Russ

Fur freindly???

Definitely NOT fur friendly, which is what I thought the OP wanted.

Have both but prefer the 17 Remington with 30 bergers and IMR 4007 SSC

Good to know before I started pokin' holes with it...any reccomendations in the AI?

I used the Sierra 1390 55 gn HP's a bit. It's ok on coyotes, but a little rough on bobcats.

Duly noted...I'm gonna try and get in some predator calling next year, and of course want the "be all/end all" bullet for everything from coyotes to wolf and lion....

No substitute for the well placed shot, right?

I hope not.....

Think im going to go .17 cal. Now should I just stick with the 17 remington or do I go with the 17-223?

.17 Rem...less muss and fuss for same performance...

abought the same as the VMax, 69 gr Sierra BTHP match bullets are much better on the fur and you can shoot one from the rear without losing them

+1

I might add that the Nagel T-000 in 30gr. are also a real good one.

The only run offs I ever encountered was when I duffed my shot and hit a shoulder or the shot was to far back. Just my experience.

Ever tried the Hornady 68 BTHP Match???

nope

I have no opinion on that. Either one will launch a screamin' demon. But go 1:9 twist or better. That gives you a few more bullet options.

Should say you can get brass and shoot right away with a 17 Rem.

.17 Rem all the way.

Lots of components available now too. Things seemed to be drying up a bit before the HMR and Fireball came out.


Travis

Just built a .223AI and i love it!!! running 50gr v-max in a fire form load at 3300fps with a 1-8 twist.... Killed 11 coyotes with it this year from 50-325 yards at diffent angles and i have never found an entrance or exit if there ever was an exit hole!!!

.17 Remington! With 30 grainers, wind drift is not an issue. It can reach out there and is so much fun to shot. Accurate to boot too.

Yep

I had a .17 Rem for years and though I took no coyotes with it, I felt it nearly perfect for fox if taken at some range as I took many with it; close up it could still tear and rip. My feeling is, though I concede to those who've actually done it, is that over many instances, youll find it on the light side for the bigger dogs.

For them I'd go the .223 AI with a 50-60-gr pill at 3600 to 3500 fps. The first thing you want is a dead dog--no runners; then, then, intact fur. With the 17, beyond 200-250, you'd better have perfect placement on coyotes or you'll spend a lot of time looking and losing some of those.

I've never had any issues killing dogs with my 17 Rem. It is by far my favorite dog round. When hit with the 25 grain Rem HP, they simply die on the spot or spin a couple times. No issues whatsoever with roughly 100 or so coyotes killed. Literally zero pelt damage though it did blow up a red fox shoulder one time. It was ugly.

The only exception on coyotes was when I loaded the 20 grain V max. It just wouldn't penetrate bone and dogs ran off a few times.

Never fired a 223 AI, but my old 22-250 did great as well but with more pelt damage.

I agree. And honestly, I've had poorly hit dogs go just as far regardless of caliber.

IME you either hit them right, or you didn't when it comes to anything resembling "fur friendly".


Travis

A buddy of mine has killed 2 with a 7mm STW using Barnes bullets. Both dropped in their tracks. The Barnes never expanded on either one and just drilled a hole through them. On one of the dogs, the bullet ricocheted on the far side. Fur damage was minimal. Not really considered a fur-friendly combo, but it worked.

that's not surprising. Bigger calibers shooting bullets meant for big game just won't hardly expand on a critter as small as a coyote. Small hole in and not much more out. BUT, two holes every time..