All -

Was thinking this over in the shower this am. If a guy's worried about keeping fur damage in check - sell the hides etc. and considering most dedicated varmint/calling rigs probably run from some sort of .17 though 22-250AI - what's better for keeping damage to a minimum?

Light for caliber moving fast, heavy for caliber moving medium/slow?

Yeah - I realize a lot of guys prob hunt with more rifle than listed - but I'm thinking uppper Midwest coyote and very occasional fox hunting here. 300 yards max woodlot/farm hunting.

Trying to convince myself that a Ruger 22hornet that's been punched K Hornet might not be the perfect fur friendly rifle in that regard but a .223 is probably much easier to find.

.17 Remington.




Travis

I hate to agree with flame, but there you have it. I like a .204 but its a little tougher on the critters�.


.17 fireball might be OK too�.never used one so can't say.

I was thinking more along the lines of "regardless of cartridge - heavy for caliber at moderate speeds or light for caliber" - which is best on fur?

I'm guessing the heavy?

I've great luck with light for caliber in 22 cal (40 grain noslers). With that said I run a 17 cal for fur

It you are considering fox at all, go with a .17, either Fireball or Remington.

the 17 hornet is THE fox medicine.....

You can't remove the cartridge from the equation. Size matters.

And although heavy and slow will likely result in a fur friendly'er load, you won't ever use them because it makes range estimation critical and coyotes are ass holes and do not stand around a real long time when coming to a call.

But if you don't want to buy the greatest fur cartridge in the history of the world, a .223 size case and 50ish grain bullets tend to be just about right.



Travis

10-4 - was just thinking that given the relatively short ranges I'm talking here and given how difficult it is to find a .17 anything in my AO - I'd most likely be looking at a .223 based job.

I HAVE a 22-250 Win Coyote but don't care for the weight or uber slow twist on it. Rebarrel would be a possibility but dunno what best fits the .308 boltface that would also be fur friendly.

Neither does anyone else.

Stop over thinking it. Build a 17Rem and be done with it.

teal: Ive had some pretty good luck on coyote fur with a .22-250. That said, when it goes wrong ( as in hitting a shoulder bone..) you could drive through the hole�.but I don't know what else would work on a .473 bolt face.
FWIW I probably had my best luck with a very slightly down loaded Speer TNT, no exits. Next was a normal load in a NBT 50 grainer, usually dime sized exits�with the occasional 'drive-thru'�.


Don't think you want to shoot fox with anything in a .22-250

As in ingwe said the 22-250 can result in saved fur but can also result in a fuggin' mess.

If it was all I had I'd stop caring about fur and hope for 50/50.

Please don't shoot any fox with it.



Travis

And I'd like to add your morning shower thoughts are very different than my morning shower thoughts.



Travis

If like you said you have relatively short ranges then I don't see how the uber slow twist handicaps you

Nothing works 100% of the time but the 17 Remington comes close.

I shoot a 204 cause it seems to kill coyotes a little deader for me. But I've had pin hole size entrances and no exits with 75 gr Vmax's in a 243ai, 77 gr SMK's in a 223, 55 gr NBT's in a 22-250ai and 40 gr Vmax's in a 204. I've also had softball to beach ball sized exits with same and lighter bullets moving faster and slower.

A fox is just waiting to explode.

I'd have to echo the 17 Remington support. Coupled with Hornday's 25 grain HP it works really well for fur. I recently had Pacnor barrel a Charles Daly action to 17 and will be stocking it this winter.

If you are absolutely set on a round with a .473 base, then build a 22-250 and try the Sierra 1365 55 grain Game King. It normally leaves an exit wound but it's usually fairly small, an inch or so most times. It seems to be tough enough to punch though without leaving basketball sized holes. Seems to work well in 222/223 also.

I'll be trying my 6mmx222 this year for fur. I'm hoping the moderate velocity and mid range bullet weights will be a fur friendly combination. We'll see.

For what you're doing I'd go with the 17 Remington and never look back.

I'll also add a "me" to the 17 Rem. crowd.

Im going to try the 'heavy and slow' thing on fox later this winter. Saving fur is not a priority, so if jot doesn't turn out, it doesn't. But Im anxious to see how it performs nonetheless.60 grain NBT going about 2700 fps...

I've killed more coyotes with a 30 calibers than anything else. 130gr TSX don't destroy much fur.

As usual, the best remains a 222 magnum with Uber-fast 40 grain V-Max...

the question remains, will the pelts be worth enough this winter for ya to really care if there's sewing required or not?
All you .17 whores need to check in to a .17/204. THAT is the CAT's MEOW.

I'm a 17 tactical whore but only because I found a smith close that already had the reamer or I would be running a 17-204

From everything I've heard and read, the Cat frenzy's tapering off but Coyote and Fox should hold for awhile.



If I still lived in the high desert I would have built one a long time ago but between the terrain here limiting shot distances, and the fact that I seldom hunt anything but Cats anymore, my old 17Rem does everything I need.

Model 7, 221 Fireball is funner!

For 250 yards and less i think huntsman22 nailed it with the 17 hornet. With greater distance beyond 250 yards 17 fireball or 17 rem for the longer distance opportunities is where I am leaning.

Of course I nailed it. Didn't fall off the turnip truck yesterday.

Pfffft!
Like you've ever killed something.....
GOY.

But, I have posed my whoregnat with some roadkill a time or two..... dats gotta count for something

The .17 Rem handles all ranges beautifully.

It is the one, the only.



Travis

If you're going to shoot any Fireball based round it should be a 17 built on a Mini Mauser type action with single stack magazine so the dam thing'll feed properly.

Kills everything you point it at with Zero fur damage and looks good doing it.






Kidding aside though, I still say the closest thing to a one size fits all "fur friendly" round is a 17Rem.
Yea, there's high BC rounds for the guys shooting long distances on the windy prairie's and dainty little cartridges that are ideal for thin skinned Fox shot at night but for 99% of predator hunting, anyone wanting to sell fur will be well served with a 17Rem.
JMO

I choose not to throw all my eggs in that 17 Rem basket as I enjoy shooting, more than cleaning rifles:) To my way of thinking way more powder than most task really require.

To each his own as I know many fur hunters have done well with there 17 Remington's for a lota years.

I drank a little of that koolaid for a while, believing that a 17 had to be cleaned thoroughly and often. My first 17 got used a lot on ground squirrels and the first couple trips I cleaned it religiously every 50 shots, because, well everybody know the 17 just fouls terribly. After a couple long weekends of ground squirrel shooting that seemed like more gun cleaning than shooting, I decided to try letting it go to see what kind of groups it shot after a day of shooting with no cleaning. Two hundred and fifty rounds later it was still shooting tiny little groups. After that I went to cleaning it like I did my other varmint rifles, which is honestly, infrequently. In a fur season, even one with a lot of success, most of us would never shoot a 17 enough to where fouling is an issue, unless you happened to get a lemon of a barrel. And that could happen in any caliber.

This ^^^^
I clean my guns once a year unless I'm shooting colony varmints or go to the range. Then I clean em when I get home.

I'd have to buy ALLOT of new stretchers if I killed enough fur to have to clean my guns as often as some would tell us that the 17Rem requires.

Cool Aid indeed.

Clean it? No thanks.

The .17 Rem is a laser out out to the three and easy on fur all the way down to 10 yards. It hath no peer. So it is written, so it shall be built.



Travis

20 PPC or 20 BR

Predictably, my vote is for the .221 Fireball. But you already knew that. 40 gr Nosler ballistic tips at 3000 fps.

Build a 17rem AR and really throw a wrench into a coyotes day. I call several at once enough times a year that I built mine and don't give up a coyote easily.

You guys sound like John-Henry at coyote gods, lol. Those guys loved them some 17 Rem, for good reason. I want to buy/build one sometime soon. I've had decent luck with the .22s, but also some bad holes. Don't shoot them in the shoulder at 25 yds with b tips.