Hey guys,
I have a TC Omega and a CVA Wolf. The TC I just got and the CVA I've been fiddling with on and off for a few years now. Usually get frustrated and then put it away for a while and then try again sometime later on. Also, I am absolutely a centerfire guy and a real novice in the muzzleloader world. Anyways I can't get either of them to shoot worth a damn with the loads I've been trying. Today I was loading 100 grains of BH209 with a 240 lead hollow point from TC, they are called Cheap Sabots and I also tried Federal 270 grain, both bullets with 100 grains by volume of BH209. I was getting clusters of about 4 to 6 inches at 50 yards. Also, tried the lead 240 grain with 100 grains of Frontier through the CVA with results just as poor. Seems like no matter what I have tried over the years, accuracy just has never been there. I know they are capable of worlds better than what I have been seeing. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. It is very frustrating when I take a break and shoot 1/2 minute groups out of my rifles at 200 and then go to the muzzleloader at 50 and it looks like a giant brick of Swiss Cheese.

Thank you,
Andrew

Drop your powder in 5gr increments.
There is normally a sweet spot.

100 grains of BH209 ... how do you determine this? Seriously. Are you doing it exactly the same everytime? Please do so.

How are you pouring the powder? Repeat process exactly each time.

How are you seating the projectiles? Again, do it exactly the same each time. Mark your ramrod to show you where the bullet is just snugly seated against the charge and use that as a guide.

Make sure your breech plugs are clean and clear. Use a 1/8" drill bit by hand to make sure the flame channels are open. Use a nipple pick or similar to make sure the flash holes are clear. You'll need to use the drill bit about every 6-8 shots to keep those plugs clear.

Make sure the bores and the plugs are clean/clear/and dry before loading. Then try to keep them that way. With BH209 it is not necessary to swab after each shot. Your best results might come by shooting a group without swabbing at all OR you might find your best results come from swabbing and drying after every shot.

Be as consistent as humanly possible in every aspect of the loading and shooting process.

Good luck and let us know if things improve.

I have a Wolf and was having accuracy problems with BH209 also. Use a BH209 breech plug. Drop your charge to 80 grains and work up. Use Powerbelt 295 grain bullets. Load the same each time. Ram the bullet down until it touches the powder load the then firmly press down on the ramrod to seat the bullet to the a loaded mark on your ramrod. Use the same primers each time.

Try dropping 10 grains and try a full diameter Power Belt. I swab after every shot with BH209 because hunting you are probably to be shooting from a clean barrel.
BH209 requires firm bullet seat.I have used a std volume powder measure and still get groups of better that 3" at 100 yards with my TC Impact. I tried measuring by weight and saw no difference in accuracy.

If using a sabots. I would try a better make.

It is either your bullets or you loading technique. Since it is with both rifles,I suspect the bullets/sabots

Ditto everything Underclocked said. Try dropping 10 grains and try a full diameter Power Belt. I swab after every shot with BH209 because hunting you are probably to be shooting from a clean barrel.
BH209 requires firm bullet seat.I have used a std volume powder measure and still get groups of better that 3" at 100 yards with my TC Impact. I tried measuring by weight and saw no difference in accuracy.

If using a sabots. I would try a better make.

It is either your bullets or you loading technique. Since it is with both rifles,I suspect the bullets/sabots

I really appreciate the responses guys! One thing I did not do was put a mark on my ramrod for consistent seating and also tamped it down a bit after pushing, which after talking to a couple of guys and reading your responses I now know was an error on my part. I was running a dry patch down after each shot although, that was the extent of it. I did not try running any solvent patches through along with a dry patch. Definitely know of some errors on my part and some things to try with the load thanks to the feedback.

Be sure sabot is shorter than ogive of bullet, if to long just trim back with scissors or nail clippers.

Thing to remember. With BH 209,you use std rifle solvents as you do regular rifle powders.

With 777, Pyrodex, black powder, you use black powder solvent, Windex and probably a few others that different people use. No petroleum products though.

Then dry patches. Final cleaning, I always run a wet patch of alcohol down the barrel and dry again.This makes sure there is no water in the bore.Probably over kill if using std solvent like.

Keep breech plugs clean use anti seize grease on the threads

Try 80 gr bh209

I've been shooting an Omega since 2004. I assume you have a scope on it. If not that would explain the group size.

This is what works for me for a deer load: 100 gr BH 209 under a 250 gr Hornady SST with Low Drag Sabot and a Federal 209A primer.

Make sure your bore and breach plug are clean and measure your charges carefully. I usually pop off a primer on a clean bore and then load. I don't swab between shots with BH. You'll see a slight impact shift between 1st and 2nd shots on a clean bore so I'll shoot for a group on shots 2-4. I run a single patch down the barrel after that and every 3 shots thereafter. My avg 3 shot group is a little over an inch.


If I go to the range to check zero before the season I'll swab the bore with a single patch afterwards, wipe off any powder residue from the breach area and put it in the case. I don't do a complete cleaning until after the season. Since BH is non-corrosive I've never had a problem.

This load has worked very well in every .50 caliber I've tried it in.
That's a LOT btw.
A Hornady 250 grain .45 caliber XTP in a Harvester crush rib sabot over 70 grains of 3f Swiss Holy Black. 1575 fps from my 24 inch Firehawk and 1610 fps from my 28 inch Hawken.
The Firehawk 1-38 twist.
Numerous inch/ sub inch 3 rounders at 100 yards. Smallest to date, center of hole to center of hole 5/16ths of an inch. Aperture sight, for full disclosure.
The Hawken, 1-48 twist.
Solid 1 1/4 to 2 inch groups all day. Also aperture sighted.
The 15th was our muzzleloader antlerless opener here in Pennsylvania, and I dropped my 15th deer with that load.
The only drawback, if it is one, is you MUST swab between shots. I use rubbing alcohol. Evaporates quickly, even when it's cold, and no damp charges.
Good fortune to ya!

I used that sabot and Hornady bullet in Nebraska whitetail hunt few years back,but I did use BH209. It worked very well on two deer. I was trying to remember it when I first posted above

I tried BH209 in the Omega and a Savage but went back to 777.
209 worked well when I was using a tight load and then powder burned consistently.
With a bullet that loaded easy I sometimes got great shots or I was getting a "Bloop" and the bullet skipped the ground at 50yds...

In the Omega I'm using 90gr 777 and the bullet of choice this year is a sabot with Lehigh .451 190gr bullet.
Last year I used Federal bore lock or a sabot and .451 cast lead, 90gr 777 was fine for all loads.

I shoot a TC and use BH 209, typically a 100 g. Some TC have a false muzzle and they can be a issue with accuracy if not concentric to the bore and it can be hard to tell just by looking, in fact i don't know how you can tell?

Ramrod is a poor name for a pushstick, hint, ramming is not the best, a steady push to make sure the projectile is tight to the powder, marking your rod, like you said, is a good idea.

I used an Omega for years. I used 2 50 grain 777 pellets and a hornady 350gr FPB. Unfortunately, they discontinued the FPB's. I changed over to an MMP sabot and a 350gr .458 cal speer hot cor round nose. I had the bullets lying around from reloading 45-70 and the sabots were around $12 for 50. I replace my Omega with an Accura and use the same load.

The BH 209 breech plug and shotgun , not Ml primers is a must
Yes there is absolutely a difference
209 ML primers are not just relabeled shotgun primers
The shotgun primers are hotter and good ignition along with breech plug is your honey .
Have no experience with omega
But have owned a couple of Wolfs and they shoot very well .
I used Barnes ez load bullets and sabots
1.5” groups is definitely doable at 100 yds
100gr of 209 has worked in the three wolfs I’ve had
Also so works well in my knight
Federal BOR LOCK works very well to , it and the ez load hold same POI in my rifles
And the 209 ease of clean up isn’t BS like the pellets and powder of the others
Kenneth

80gr of B209 shoots very well in my Wolf with both TC Shockwaves and the Barnes 250 TMZ. The Shockwaves shoot better, but they've expanded like crap in anything I've hit with them.... pencilholes. Granted, 45 caliber is still a big pencilhole, but they definitely aren't opening up.

Depending on the bullet, mine is best at 70-80gr... my groups all open after 80gr. Primers can matter, too. Mine didn't shoot for beans with CCI or Remington 209s. It likes Winchester 209 or the Federal 209A.

I just took it out Sunday to check my zero before this season. First shot off the bench from about 60yds with the factory fiber optic sights. This is my 3rd or 4th year with it, and I've never had them move on me.

I've not seen a ML that wouldn't shoot good with 90 gr of Pyrodex Select or loose 777, a green sabot, and a 240 gr Hornady XTP. The XTP is a deer hammer too!!

I haven't shot Triple 7 in the Wolf, but it does shoot fine with 80-90gr of real FFg BP behind most sabots. I just love the B209 for easy cleanup. Breech plug cleaning after BP sucks.

BH209 is much easier to clean, but the crazy prices and lack availability has pushed me back to loose 777.

Yeah, if I was just starting in BP now 209 probably wouldn't be my first choice. I bought a few cans once I found out my Wolf liked it, shortly before prices went bananas. I pretty much only shoot it to check my zero and then hunting, so they'll likely last me most of, if not my entire life.

I'd probably go BP or Pyrodex if I was starting from scratch now. I used to shoot 777 in a Traditions percussion 50 cal, but I always had problems with it getting full of clumps.