Let's see some muzzleloaders!

Muzzleloading season starting soon so I wiped the dust from sitting all year and took a snapshot.

Knight .45 w/ 2-7x35 Burris

Lyman lefthanded .54 cal flintlock.....



My boy with the Ramblings Rifle, which is his now....



My KP1.....

Joseph Lang 18 bore double rifle. Technically, not mine any more. I sold her this summer.


Home build underhammer .45 with a paper patched bullet. Easily the ugliest rifle I own. One of the more accurate however.


Home built flint lock .54 roundball


I really need a new rifle though. This is what I want to build next. This is an authentic Hawken. One of only two that I have heard of having a pistol grip.

Triumph 50 cal. ......B&L 2x7x32 (just sold it and now have a VXII 2x7x32 on it.) New last year, got this deer on my first hunt with it.

Self explanatory...

Wildswalker, were you calling turkeys to whack'em with a .54? Seems like an interesting idea. Not legal here, but I like it.

Brent

My "primitive weapon":

Lyman Great Plains Rifle .54 cal.

My "modern muzzle loader":

Rem 700 ML .50 cal.

Shooting my 50 cal. CVA

[img]http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v133/Sells/?action=view&current=VID00004.mp4[/img]

That was the plan, and is legal, here.

Did ya get one? I don't know if I would try with a muzzleloading rifle, even if legal, but I might.
Brent

Not yet, with that rifle.

Had it out a couple times last fall, and didn't turkey hunt this past spring due to the new job.

I can see a fair bit of commemoration in flintlocking a turkey.......

Here is an old picture with some dinks.



We were glad to get em.

Yeah, but the deer are nice

Brent,

Who makes the Hawken at the bottom of your post?

Parts set, kit, or ????

The Hawken Brothers made that rifle - the real Hawken brothers. That is a bona fide original. I would like to make one but I have not done it yet. There are no parts set - I have suggested that Track of the Wolf might want to get the jump on that - it would sell!

TC Triumph.

NICE fat buck. I wonder what he weighed. There is a tape measure sold (for a dollar) by the state of Pennsylvania that you can use to measure the girth of a deer and convert it into live weight, dressed weight and meat estimates. That boy is a real toad! I would love to take one like that.

Gotcha, Brent - authentic, as in an original! I should have caught that from your description but I'm (and have been for a while) for a build to undertake and got caught up in that fever.

Interesting pistol grip. Reminds me of an old L.C. Smith hammer gun that I used to drag around as a kid. Tight choked 33 inch barrels.

If you look at that picture for a while the grip will begin to look fat - it is. At least it does to me anyway. But it also looks really strong. I think it would be a dynamite hunting rifle. I would prefer it from black walnut and I may just do it from scratch so to speak. It would be a lot more unique than most. And really functional. I would build it light however. Shooting for around 8.5-9 lbs.

Skane, that would be a moose of a deer! Any idea of weight?

That would be the poster child for those of us who'd advocate using enough gun and cheering on penetration!

Yes, the grip looks chunky, but functional. If you had to club someone over the head you'd probably still be left with a decent pistol grip, at the very least. Thought might have crossed someones mind a century++ ago.

That rifle screams for a large bore.

I think it may have been a .62. I do not remember exactly. If you look at the tang closely, you can see that it had a lollipop aperture sight. I think it may have been originally a target rifle, but it sure looks like a hunting rifle otherwise.

Brent

"I really need a new rifle though."



Oh,you big liar! You do not need another rifle....!

Sorry! I am just conditioned by my wife that I have to respond with those words whenever I think about a new rifle....

I have never seen that style of Hawken or other plains rifle. Very nice lines.

Johnny $

You are right, I do not "need", but I "absolutely must have"

My modern one.

In action.



My old school one. (havent killed anything with this one yet but its gonna happen.)

Scott, which version of Photoshop did you use on this spike?

Well, you know we can't all be trophy's.

Stoney-

Here's the same deer.
TC Triumph...

Smokepole,

A very nice wood stocked Encore, not many in use. The dead buck should have been pleased to be shot with a classy rifle.

Doc

Joe, he dressed at 280#.
He was actually quite "short"....can't imagine what he'd have gone had he been "full length". Hornady SST made two holes.

I used to build them when I was younger. I made every thing except locks, barrels, butt plates and trigger guards. I bought planks from a kiln in Ohio. $30 would buy a huge curly maple plank that made a bunch of rifles.

This one has a swamped barrel.

Takes forever to carve the things and cut all that brass.

TFF. Nice buck Scott.

nice buck

Some really nice deer here and some really nice rifles. bfrshooter, your work is spectacular. Beats the flinter I built any day.

Just one more picture. My wife with a muzzleloader I built for her from a kit, and her first deer. She was pretty sad about it at first. But she warmed up to the idea after a few minutes. This one was right behind the house.

Here's another that was taken in Lochloosa. T/C 54 Renegade and Maxiball entered in the front of chest, head on, lodged against hip just under the hide. Again a long long time ago.



Peanut gallery for support.

Thank you but your wife's picture is better then my rifle pictures. My daughter was a fantastic shot and we went rabbit hunting. I told here where the rabbit was coming and she shot it as it ran across a trail in the field. She looked just like your wife, very sad. I never got her straightened out over hunting but she loves deer meat.
I hope your wife did not quit hunting. As much as my family and I love all animals, hunting is needed and is no different then buying meat.
You rifle is very well made too and that is what counts. It looks wonderful to me, great job.
Tell your wife to smile, she did great. I would be very proud of her.

Oh, I'm very proud of her. Her big motivation for shooting deer was her dog - which eats all raw meat. Anyway, she soon cheered up but she does not like the killing part of hunting. She shot several more after that one, but finally wounded one and that put the kabosh on her deer hunting. I still try to talk her into it, but not too hard.

She is a pretty darn good shot with a rifle generally, just one time it didn't workout as planned and that was hard on her.

Brent

That is too bad! Wounding something is part of the game - a really, really bad part of the game. I still kick my self over an antelope I wounded 5+ years ago.

My dear wife went with one time...
Now, she says that as long as they come home, cut up, in neatly labled white paper packages she is fine with me hunting. She just does not want to see any dead bodies.

There is hope though! I have asked her to go with me this fall to hunt the Wildcat Hills by Crawford, NE. She loves that area and she is considering it.

Johnny $

Good luck with the spouse hunt - it can be a lot of fun. She and I and another couple spent a few days chasing speed goats out near Miles City MT one year. That sort of hunting was great for her. She liked seeing lots of wildlife, a bigger and open landscape, and it was mostly warm, or at least not the soaking cold of sitting on one's rear end in the pre-dawn freezing in the snow. She did that too, but antelope hunting was more her style.

She still hunts pheasants. Mostly to run her dog.

Dogs, you had to mention them. Mine was a little sick yesterday and I went nuts. I held her and rubbed her. I went and got her a bunch of grass that she ate like crazy. She is now OK. I could not get her to throw up which is what she needed but it passed.
I have 5 dogs but this one is special and will not leave my side. She is so calm, never gets excited or barks at anything, loves all my friends that come over and everyone loves her.

Very nice buck.

Thanks doc, I always liked the combination of walnut and stainless, don't see it enough.

My new Savage 10ML-II

Nice! I wanted one, but ran across an Remington 700 ML here on the 'fire that I just couldn't pass up. Let us see some pictures this fall!

The 700ML is the most accurate muzzleloader I've ever owned.

Swampman700...nice Sav man! I got one in camo with blue. What do you have for a scope?

TC Omega, cerakoted by Doug Burche. Now has a VXII 2-7x33 on it.

It's a Leupold 2-7X33 VX-1. Dick's had them for $170.00.

A stainless steel and black plastic Hawkens? I won't deny a man his choice in rifles but I can't get my mind around that one.

thats no hawken,its a grey hawk.

From left,traditions inline,traditions sidelock,T/C thunderhawk stainless walnut(rare),and a T/C Grey Hawk.

Very nice job bfrshooter
Here are "a few " of mine

Hudson Valley fowler


South carolina


SXS's
JW King 14 gage , "original "




CVA " converted "






CVA bobcat
[img]http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y242/captchee/bobcat%20restock/Picture033.jpg[/img]

Stutzer "original"
[img]http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y242/captchee/match%20guns/DSC00123.jpg[/img]

Captchee, wonderful. The inline guns might be fun but there is nothing more beautiful then an original style. Just to carry one in the woods does something for a guy that a modern rifle lacks.
It sure is not a handicap either, the new guns have not improved killing effects, only extended range.
I have taken many deer with a Ruger Old Army cap and ball that went down faster then with a .44 mag.
The .54 Hawken I made puts deer down so fast with a round ball I never see them fall.
I have killed well over 200 deer with a flintlock out to just over 100 yards and there is just no scoped rifle that gives the pleasure and the step back in time.
I have used my .54 to shoot 4 out of 5 steel chickens at 200 meters off hand. Who says a round ball does not shoot?

My Savage



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Pretty but you are missing out on a lot. Step back in time with a flintlock long rifle. Put more enjoyment into hunting.

been there done that. I prefer the inline and sidelock. If you think flintlock is challenging, try a match lock

Are you kidding me. I am going to shoot this one this year and see about going to a custom build long range gun. I'm into hunting to be sucessful when the oportunity presents itself. Why would I want to spend thousands of dollars on lets say my deer tag in Iowa, travel, time away from my business not to mention a fee to an outfitter to chance a hunt with a sidelock or more primative front loader. You fellas don't have to get off on the tradition of muzzleloading with me. I have a box of tee shirts in my closet with "been there done that" on them in reguards to hunting with more challenging methods. I shoot a long bow as well as a compound and their is a place for both of them just like theirs a place for traditional and non traditional muzzleloaders.

We can hunt deer with a spear in Alabama. Why don't yall give that a try then come back and pull that primative card on me.

Isn't this a great country. We can disagree and still have fun!!!

My .54 J�ger


My North Star West .62 with this year's Pa bird.

Well lest see , I have ?? Hunted deer with a spear. never got one . but i did get a Capybara . i also have taken Capybara with an atalatel .I have even killed a PUDU one evening with my army issue KaBar
I have taken mule deer , and elk with , primitive , traditional and compound bows . Though I never felt the want or need for a cross bow .
I think match locks would be very cool though and someday my just have to build me one .

The first two scratch built rifles I ever made were converted center fire .
1 bolt action , O3A3 and a Winchester 3030 . Both well before Tony knight found a market
Sometime in the early 1980�s , I stopped using center fires for big game .
In 1985 I purchased a traditions flintlock .I wasn�t real impressed tell I ran across a fella who showed me the ins and outs . In 1985 I built my first flintlock and have never looked back .
In 1990 I started upland game and waterfowl hunting with side lock and flintlock SXS and fowlers .
Found the same thing . And have not looked back .

In all honesty and speaking for myself . I have never felt a handy cap during a hunting season . Be it in the snow , rain , wind .
99% of the time . Im doing the above , right along side the center fire folks in the general season . I do pretty well I think . I fill my deer tag every year and my elk tag on an average , every other year .
Im a little picky with my elk though and a lot of times pass up what could be more meat in the freezer

While I would agree that hunting does cost a lot . Now days I fill my tags because I want to. Not because I need to .
If there was a life and death immediate need . Well ,,,, ??? Buying a tag wouldn�t be a real concern would it. .

I have 100% confidence in my rifles . I know that if I do my part . They will do theirs when the chips are down .


As to target rifles . If your thinking of hunting with one . Be sure to check your state laws .
Most dedicated long range target rifles , like the Rigby�s , Tryon�s and such are of small caliber . IE around 41 cal . Im not say all , just most and especially those renown for 1000+ yard shooting

I have my own preferences. Most folks here who know me . Know what that preference is as well as what my feelings about the modern inline rifles . So I don�t think that needs gone into .
But I would point out that this forum is NOT just about modern rifles and I did not see anything in the topic of this thread that dictated the topic was just about modern rifles . So maybe I missed it ???.

Anyway , good luck hunting this fall

PS
bfrshooter
my longest consistant range with the SC i showd above , is 325 yards off hand .
i have very little proble hitting a human chest size target at that distance .
i can hit at 400 but its a stretch for me .
so normaly im right in the running on the long gong shooting undell we reach about 350 and then im in trouble .

Bigblock,

I don't want to start a pissing match, and I don't care what sort of rifle you build but as an Iowa hunter, I understand the utility of long range hunting around here. I am never quite sure why anyone would pay that sort of money to do it, but I understand the use for a long range rifle.

That said, you can build or buy off the rack a traditional rifle that is purpose built for long range hunting. That god-awful ugly underhammer is just one example. And it didn't have to be that ugly - I just built it that way). That rifle will shoot as well or better than any inline and be more dependable (by virtue of being an underhammer). It can, and has been, fitted with scope sights (25X STS) and is sighted to be dead on for both 100, and 200 yds as shown and has been used on deer at those distances.

A Pedersoli Gibbs will do the same thing off the rack.

Anyway, if you were interested in the traditional style, you can do it without loosing one iota of range advantage or reliability - you might even pick up a bit of additional advantage if you work at it. But it does take some homework.

Good luck on the Iowa hunt - but for that money, I'd be out West.

Brent

My sons Lyman .50 GPR with a little customization.







My T.M. Wallis of Philadelphia original 1860's 12 gauge SXS.

I have a picture of mine but I am not about to post it just below ROMAC's work of art.

that is nice,isnt it?

nice SXS Romac .
cant say i seen hammers like that .
do you shoot it or is it just a safe queen ?

I have nothing against what anyone chooses to hunt with, be it inline or traditional. It is just my choice to use traditional because there are so many seasons to use any gun you want to.
Many use a .300 mag or larger for deer in rifle season but I gave up rifles for the revolver. I bow hunt first, then muzzle loaders, then the revolver is all I use in gun season.
I do feel for the fellas that have to spend a lot of money to hunt so go for it, an empty tag hurts.
I have just killed too many deer and kill too many each season so the hunt is more important to me then having something on the ground. I let deer go by when I don't feel like butchering but it is still hunting even when I don't shoot.
I let the bow down on the rope a few times because I didn't feel like a kill. One time I had 17 right under me bumping into my bow as they ate Paw Paws. I shoot 5 to 7 a year and have to quit when my freezer is full and I can't give any more away.
For those of you that can't do that, use the gun you need. I do not denigrate you in any way.
It is just that walking around in the woods with a flintlock and Yes, maybe a matchlock, is just plain fun without the need to kill every thing seen.
I do have a spear and several home made stick bows from Osage Orange to Hickory and I do go out with them without the need to kill anything. I do not get out of shape when I can't get a shot or miss. Too many times I don't want a deer and go for fun.
So for those that have to spend money and travel a long way, this is not against you at all.
Back when I started bow hunting there were so few deer that the average time for an archer to kill a deer was one in 17 years. I killed three or more a year in different states because I figured out the animal. You could only kill one deer a year in each state.
Now I have a friend that kills 17 to 20 a year in his state because he feeds poor people but he uses a rifle mostly.
I understand your position so don't get angry.

No anger here. I don't care how a man harvests an animal as long as it's legal. I would love to hunt deer here in Alabama with a big bore air rifle but based on our game laws the only way to do so is if the rifle is a muzzle loading gun. All rifles used in the state to harvest deer must be center fire with mushrooming ammo. Their is a guy in the state that did build a muzzle loading 50cal air rifle and killed a couple of deer with it. Guys are using big bores to drop game all the way up to animals the size of a Bison.

There's another one hiding in the closet, but these get used the most.

Shear beauty. To just handle them would be great.

Captchee it is a shooter, though I have not shot it yet. I got it in the spring and just had it checked out by a local gunsmith who confirmed that it is safe and in great condition. I'll try to get more pics of the hammers for you.

Here are a few. It has an oval with engraving with the owner's name and Philadelphia. I have it written down somewhere. I tried to do some research to see if he was famous but I came up empty. It has been cleaned up a bit since these pictures were taken.

Beautiful and very representative collection there.

Please tell us more! At least about the Rigby-style on top, i.e. maker, specs etc.


Johnny $

Love the savage ML.

Nice . Looks like she is in very good shape
Lets see
Does the 222 also show up on all the parts ? Ie locks , stock tang TG and such ?

1) sadly the barrels carry Belgium proof makings
2) the maker or possible maker I find 2 different Wallis. But n TM Wallis .
A) Wallis and Birch who produced a lot of small pistols in Philadelphia around 1850. no first name or initials are given . so this might be a maybe for ya

B) Daniel Wallis who had a shop in the Talladega AL area and produced guns for the CSA 1862-1864

This is some info that I had in my computer that I was able to uncover about the maker.

12 gauge percussion double made by Thomas M. Wallis of Philadelphia. I have not had much success finding much information about this gunmaker other than a copy of a patent application for "Supplementary Barrels for Revolvers" from 1876 in which he assigned half of his rights to William Wurfflein.

It has a silver oval on the top of the wrist with the name J. Birkenback(h)Philadelpia engraved in it.

1860 Census
Thomas M Wallis Gunsmith
Age in 1860: 28
Birth Year: abt 1832
Birthplace: England
Home in 1860: Philadelphia Ward 11, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
Gender: Male
Post Office: Philadelphia
Household Members:
Name Age
Thomas M Wallis 28
Mary A Wallis 23
Philip Wallis 5/12

1870 United States Federal Census
Name: Thomas Wallis GunSmith
Birth Year: abt 1833
Age in 1870: 37
Birthplace: England
Home in 1870: Philadelphia Ward 19 District 60, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
Race: White
Gender: Male
Post Office: Philadelphia
Household Members:
Name Age
Thomas Wallis 37
Mary Wallis 35
Philip Wallis 11
Mary Wallis 9
Jane Wallis 7
Ida Wallis 5
Clara Wallis 3

According to Vorisek, Wurfflein was around from 1835 to 1915. Andrew died in 1871 and his son, William took over the business. They were known to have converted muzzle loaders, not an uncommon part of the trade during this time period. Sellers seems to use the 2 patent dates to date the time Wallis worked for Wurfflein.

an englishman using cheep belgum barrels . thats sacralage LOL .
very cool though , no mater what

Awesome

Awesome

Captchee, 222 is on the triggergaurd under the wrist. I've never taken the sidelocks off so I do not know if they are serialed on the inside.

i would bet the carry true there as well .
to often parts are replaced and the numbers dont match
my bet is yours is all matching original

Johnny Dollar: The rifle at the top was made by a very fine craftsman named Steve Zihn, who called it a Purdey-styled gun. (Although from my observations, the only constant distinguishing characteristic between British and Scottish sporting rifles of the period was the names stamped on them.) It has a .62 caliber tapered Moody barrel with Forsythe-style rifling.

Lyman GPH 50 flinter

steve does some very fine work

Mesabi,
I thought I recognized the maker. I have been talking to Steve Z about making a little southern-style mountain rifle for my grandson(who is not quite 2 y/o). Steve is not only a fine craftsman, he is a fine person.

Thank you for your response.

Johnny $

Tundragriz, nice rifle, nice antlers, but man, you gotta practice taking some pictures, 'cuz that is one hell of a trophy pine sapling!

Started life as a plain jane encore, added the prohunter stock set, talley, and I just got it back from CAS today: Cerakote the barrel action and did the stock in brown. Traded lubbockdave on the board for the VXII 1-4.

If I am not mistaken it looks like you have the "pistol" one piece base/ring combo. I thought I was the only one that did that. It just seemed so much more solid than the traditional base/ring two piece set.

hatfield .50....dont remember the year, was at least 15 years ago, might be closer to 20 years.

me and a squirrel huntin buddy both used .32cherokees to shoot a stringer of squirrels.

.45 round ball gun:

Renegade with Green Mtn .58 barrel on top, factory Renegade .58 below it, and a victim of the factory 58.

One of several - all inlines and all great shooters.

You are correct, seemed to make sense to me too..............gl

I didnt put the sidelocks or flintlock in the group.

Beautiful Elk.

Nice pumpkin...

Love the Hatfield. Those were some sweet rifles.

Damned in-lines. Stinking up a good thread..............

More of the same gun, a NULA 209........

White S91 .451

Damn that's nice.