If so, what powder charge does your ML favor (if you wouldn't mind sharing).

Buddy is using 100 grains with 270 grain

90grns blackhorn 209 and the 295 powerbelt hp with the aftermarket insert in the hp. deadly in my triumph

Well, I don't use 777, but I do use 295 grain Powerbelt HP's. On top of two 50 grain Pyrodex pellets, 50 yard groups are on ragged hole out of my T/C Omega.

I use the 295 gr PB in a TC Black Diamond in line, 100 gr of 777. My 50 cal Hawkin does not like them.

Wow,,,You picked one of the worst combo,s out there.. Please dont bash me, as this is my personal opinion,,and have used this combo many years ago.. It might be good for punching holes in paper and shooting tin cans.. Try using Prodex Select, with the Barnes bullets ,,110 or 120 grains..

its not a bad choice. Ive killed plenty of deer. Seeing how they shoot on paper is only a bonus.

300gr Powerbelt Platinum with 100gr BH209 is an awesome load in our rifles. We go a step up to the 338 Platinum for elk.

Not bashing,but my loads have been killing elk quite effectively. Can't see paying Barnes price for the bullets at muzzle loader velocities. Everyone, though, is entitled to thier own opinion and what they think is best. The OP asked if any one was using BP's and the load, not Barnes

Shot 295 to 405 powerbelts at 90-100 gr 777 until they came out with Hornaday FPBs (300 and 350 gr). Lead alloy of the FPB helps them hold together better than powerbelt (pure lead). And only $16 for 15 at Bass Pro.

As far as barnes being more expenisive, where are you paying more for them? Cabelas has Barnes sabots for $27 for 24 bullets. They charge $22 for aerotips (15) and hollowpoints (20). Seems pretty comparable in price.

And Thors (barnes full bore) run $22 list price for 15, but he has been charging me $20 for 2 or more packs. So they are pretty comparable to PBs as well cost wise, but are a much superior bullet in the field.

So bottom line for me is Yes, I have shot the PB/777 combo, but I have moved on to what I consider superior bullets. To shoot pure lead bullets, I want bigger bullets.

I have typically paid about $14-$15 for PB pack of 15.
Still, the OP wanted to know about PB's not Hornadys or Barnes

My CVA Wolf loves the 295 gr. powerbelts over 80 gr. of 777.




135 lbs. field dressed. Taken at 60 yds. with the fiber optic sights.

maddog

dang. looks like the thing took a blood bath!

Yep!

nah the worse combo would be a TC trying to shoot a conical

I have no use for conicals/PBs. I prefer sabots because they don't move off the powder and create a dangerous obstructed barrel situation.

Thanks everybody, and Saddlesore is correct! This is the only combo I am interested in as I have the components here. Got a hunt coming up and don't have time to be trying a bunch of other stuff.

Thanks again!

Sabots are illegal in CO.

Swampmann700,Brucie,

I have shot the .45 powerbelts in my T.C. Omega for the last four years. 275 grains over 100 grains of loose 777. One hole groups at 50 yards, 2 " or less groups at 100, and have shot through two deer standing side by side on one occasion with it. Switched to BH209 last year. Same results with 85 grains of loose BH209 and winchester standard 209's. I have not recovered a "soft powerbelt" from any of the 16 deer shot with it, including the double. The "bad combination" works well for me.
And I have never even heard of a proper fitting conical or powerbelt moving off of the powder. Where did you hear this?

Renfak,

We do not shoot the lighter weight 50 cal powerbelt bullets. We shoot the 348grain aerotips over 90 grains loose BH209 and win std 209 primers. One ragged whole groups at 50 yards, @ 2 inches at 100, (exactly what I get from my .45 cal Omega) with T.C. Omega three weeks ago.

I have found that the Power Belts do not shoot well in the Hawkin type rifles with the slower twist meant for maxiballs. However, they do shoot extremely well in the faster twist and tighter barrels of the inlines, like my TC Black Diamond

Saddlesore,
They, 348 Aerotips, shoot O.K. in my T.C. Hawken in the replacement Green mountain 1:48 twist barrel, about like the 350gr. maxi-hunters over 100 grains pyrodex. Others tried it with swiss FF and liked them. Unfortunately, I am only shooting them with the standard fibre optic open sights. I can stay inside 5 inches or so at 100 off of the bench. We hunt in such tight cover that it is a moot point, ie. 20 yard minute of deer would work!! But they seem to shoot well enough. What combo did you try?

Might be just the lighter bullets then.

Then I'd be shooting patched round balls. They stay put.

Well dont you know round balls will roll outta the barrel cuz they are round and dont hold in place like a good ol conical? Plus they lack energy

Powerbelts shoot great in 1:48 twists. Our cabelas hawken, cva hawken, cva mountain stalker "1:32" twist all love the 295 + powerbelts.

The patch keeps them from moving off the powder.

yeah but that patch can cause a forest fire you know.

Swampmann,

We have been shooting the Powebelts since they became available in our area. Never had one move "off the powder". They stay in place just like standard conicals, atleast till you pull the trigger

Where did you hear/experience this?

The comments in the Savage 10ML-II owner's manual lead me to believe it's pretty easy for them to move. I won't be testing them.

Same here, I've backpack hunted with 'em to hell and gone, abused the rifle, fallen down, and in the process taken 8 or 10 elk/mule deer, and never had a problem.

I guess you need to read the Savage Manual to really know though.

Maybe the Savage is overbored?....

Or they have shares in, or sponser, another bullet company.

No there's just nothing to hold them in place.

Power Belts were at one time called Black Belts,developed by Bob Kearns.. He told me that they would come off the powder if the gun was pointed down and bumped around.. He told me to fire a couple of rounds to dirty the barrel before loading them for a hunt..Also he told me to lay some dental floss across the bore and then seat the bullet .. This he said will keep them from comming of the powder.. Also,,they may have been improved buy now, but the plastic gas check, will crack, and give you some serious fliers.. I took 4-5 packages of Black Belts and pick through them and found the ones with the cracked plastic checks, and shot them at 100 yards.. At 100 yards ,some didnt hit the target at all, and some did.. The ones with no cracks in them shot very well..at 100 yards.. When shooting these bullets at 200 yards, they have no BC,S and start to tumble at this range.. Most of you so called muzzleloader shooters like the Power Belts cause they are easy to load down the barrel..Yes they will kill an elk or deer, But when i only have ONE shot , i prefer a much better bullet.

I guess mos tof us are just neophytes stumbling around the timber with bullets moved half way down the barel. Only the true experts can expound on the good bullets. I hope the hell the elk don't read this thread before next week

Go back and read the 1st dad gum post Brucie.He ain't asking you what bullets you use.He ASKED if any one is using the Power Belts

Brucie,
Glad you "know someone". You actually tried to use a bullet that you had to keep in place with dental floss? You sorted out 4-5 packs of bullets to get past the cracked ones to find some you could use? WTH, would you use that product? Whether you know the guy or not, Junk is Junk.

I tried the Blackbelts when they came out as well. After shooting about half of the first pack I gave the rest away. Standard conicals outshot even the good ones. Hell, the patched round balls outshot the good blackbelts. The Powerbelts have a more plieable tighter fitting base and are much better made. And being that this thread was about Powerbelts, not Blackbelts I answered accordingly.

As far as your "so called muzzleloader shooters" comment. You do not know any of us. Save your judgements for yourself. The only thing you are accomplishing by spouting off is "removing all doubt". P.S. I built my first muzzleloader 28 years ago and have hunted with, and competed with, them ever since, taking @ 60 big game animals with them along the way. I use Powerbelts because they work very well for me. I do not try to make a muzzleloader into a high power rifle, they are not. Shooting a full caliber heavy weight, easier loading bullet, that does not lead the barrel too badly appeals to me, call me crazy.

Powerbelts shoot under three minutes of angle in the rifles I shoot them in, leave big blood trails with two holes, and drop big game animals as well as any muzzleloader bullets I have used. That is why I continue to use them, you know, actual field experience. What a novel concept, actualy trying something, before, you become an expert about it.

I knew i would get bash here,,,just wanted to let him and others know of this problem.. Hope they fixed this problem,,Good luck hunting..

I'm trying to decide if people are saying cracked skirts on PB"s affect flight. As far as I can tell on my shots,the skirts fall off and I find them at about the same distance out as I do patches when I shoot round balls in other rifles. I have no idea if they crack or not, butI have never encountered one on the green skirted PB"S. I would assume the skirts lag behind the bullet in the barrel when fired, or shortly thereafter.

I check the seat on my loads every once in awhile as I carry in a scabbard and the rifle gets bounced around.I have never had a PB move forward that I could discern.

wow out of the thousands of rounds i fire each year with powerbelts, i never once found a cracked skirt. beautiful 1 1/2 - 2" groups @ 200 yards.

Powerbelts stay planted on the charge if you dont have an over sized bore like some of the knights and white rifles. It is a good idea though with any projectile to use some common sense and check your load after a rough ride on an atv/horse back. Even when i am not using powerbelts for hunting, i still check it after a rough ride to make sure its on the powder.

Powerbelts can be shot in a savage but savage does not recommend it with smokeless powder due to them being pure soft lead and can melt when fired. Not completely melt but you get the point. With a black powder sub, im sure it would be just fine.

If you do have a rifle with an over sized bore, the Powerbelt Platinums have a thicker skirt for those rifles. I believe i measured them a couple years back and they measured .506 or .507 i forget the exact measurements.

It has nothing to do with the lead alloy. They can move off the powder and create an obstructed bore situation.....scarry!

http://www.chuckhawks.com/powerbelt_bullets.htm

that can happen with any projectile. The lead is soft and savage doesnt recommend conicals PERIOD with smokeless powder.

And that's why I shoot sabots. Unlike conicals they don't move.

"PowerBelts are just undersized conicals, measuring .499 dropping down the bore of the .501" land to land 10ML-II. Not truly "jacketed," they have a thin copper cladding. Some Powerbelts remain pure lead.

"Encouraging the use of Powerbelts has several detrimental consequences. While there may be no misfires with the double-based, 20% nitro AA5744-- misfires and unhappy customers are likely with Savage recommended N110 and SR4759, a certainty with the long recommended 4227.

As the copper cladding is thin, it is torn up by the rifling-- not the case in a saboted projectile. Use of the old, unplated Powerbelts (sold as BlackBelts) will coat the bore with lead. A big problem to remove, the classic method being to use liquid mercury.

The Savage 10ML-II manual has long suggested only bullets in sabots by MMP with smokeless. To encourage or allow the use of bore-sized conicals may create some or all of the problems listed above-- bore leading, dramatically increased pressures, bore obstruction, and use of other conicals that are lubed lead also creating misfires due to powder contamination from that lube and also bore leading.

"Use smokeless powder loads with saboted bullets only. When loading and shooting bore-sized lead conical bullets, Savage Arms, Inc. recommends loading with "Pyrodex� RS", "Select", "Pyrodex� Pellets", or "Triple Seven". Maximum recommended charge is 150 grains."

I have dug the PB's out of elk and berms on the range, and the clading is still intact except where they mushroom as intened. I also shoot Maxi ball conicals in my Hawkin and not get leading from them ( pure lead)
I also use Bore Buuter as a lube with the maxi balls an do not get powder contamination,nor misfires.

I think some of what is being reported is old wive's tales, or just plain old BS.

TC reccomends PB"s as they are smaller in dia,but only because the newer in lines have tighter, more stringently controlled barrels, diameter wise,where as rifles meant to fire pure lead coniacls have to be such that the lead rifling may be cut as the slug is forced down the barrel ( Per my discussion with TC)

saddle, savage is talking about with smokeless powder, not the black powder subs.

As I mentioned conicals can easily create an obstructed bore condition. There's nothing to hold them in place.

if you dont get the correct fitting sabot or conical, it can come off the charge, you know that.

SorryBB455, I did not catch that

Gosh, I am glad that I didn't know all of this when I was collecting an elk every year with my GPR and T/C Maxi-Balls back in the '80s. I am learning to shoot an inline this year for a mule deer hunt and will undoubtedly shoot something with a propellant/bullet combination that just won't do the job. If so, I will post a mea culpa here for all to see...

You can't load a correct fitting conical. That's not the case with the sabot.

hornady and Thor are sized to your barrel when pushed down the bore. Same with the skirt on the powerbelt.

Does Hornady make a conical? Powerbelt doesn't have a skirt.

If you prefer to dumb yourself down, then by all means, go right a head.