I'm planning a couple muzzleloader hunts the next couple years and was planning to build a custom muzzleloader. I talked to someone named Cecil in the south about building on a 700 action and a green mountain barrel but the number I have for him isn�t good any longer. Any of you guys have experience building one of these things. I like the idea of being able to use both black and smokeless powder.

Phil in Alaska

Phil, why do you say that?

An alternative, perhaps cheaper and one that can drive conicals well. See my post "New Project".

Hey there, the reason I like the idea of being able to use both is that some states wont let you use smokeless as I'm sure you know, but would like to be able to use it where I can.

Phil

The only MLer, so called, I'm aware of that you can use smokeless in, is the Savage. They are well regarded for their accuracy, etc, but have been a couple "go" even there. But the one particular one I've seen, idiot put a lot more powder than they're made for, in it.. Just go buy the Savage, and be happy. I'm also not sure, anyone is going to make you a MLer that will use smokeless. Actually, and not trying to get a "discussion" going, but if you're a true MLer person, shoot patched roundballs, and REAL black..only way to go, and then you also have to learn how to hunt. Round balls good to a 100 yds, and since you'll be using iron sights, won't be able to sight well enough to go beyond that. Cleaning a BP gun, after using BP is not a big deal, and you can make your own bullets, etc.. I can shoot my MLer with patched round balls for about $.20 a shot, using faux black (777 etc),and a sabot or lead slug, costs close to $2.00 a shot.

Sure you can............

Look a way.....

Denalilofts,

Here is the one I just completed. Rem 700 action with a McGowen 45 cal. barrel. I have only shot smokeless out of it so far. Very accurate and fun to build.

Rob

Lots of good info here.

http://dougsmessageboards.proboards.com/index.cgi

http://www.prbullet.com/700.htm

What advantage do you see with going both ways?

I have the Savage, and it's a nice gun. But I think Savage dropped it at the beginning of the years.

My gunsmith makes smokeless muzzleloaders on a Rem. 700 action. I don't know what they cost, but they're at least a couple thousand. For a primer, they use a primed brass cartridge trimmed down to about a half-inch.

I have a couple of buddies that have them. One of them shot a 180-class whitetail last year in Ohio at something like 350 yards. If you PM me, I'll put you in touch with the gunsmith. It has become a major part of his business and he's building them for people all over the country.

Steve

I have several in the works on 700 ML actions, pm me and we can talk...Bill

Hillbill has a lot of knowledge on the subject and makes some great guns. Also, you do not need to build them to use a cartridge for ignition. Many are set up to use 209 primers with a Savage breech plug just like the Savage ML'ers. And, you can build them for less than a couple grand.

If this project gets screwry or doesnt turn out the way You like, call Steve Zihn out in Wyo, and have him build You a real custom BP rifle, he is a true craftsman.

Gunner

Thanks for all the points of view guys, and all the good suggestions both for and against the project on a 700 action.

Phil in Alaska

DigitalDan, some states allow the smokeless and some don�t as I'm sure you know. I'll be hunting both. I am really into trying to get the gun to shoot both ways as a challenge and an excuse to hang out at the range more than I do. The faster flatter smokeless setup would be fun in more open country. I can "hunt" and take my share of game, I�m just looking for a challenge and a new project. I'm a Remington man and like to do all things on a 700 action if I can. To each his own right. :-)

Phil in Alaska

Phil,

Build it and if you don't like it, I am pretty sure it will sell. Lots of fellas over on doug's doing or thinking about doing this very same project. Thats where I got all my info and had a blast building it. I am pretty sure I could get more for mine than I have into it.

Rob

I reckon that's true. I've always sorta taken the simpler direct approach....one gun/one load theory, or better stated, one load per gun.

Was curious about the BP/Smokeless approach more than the gun as I've never held the sabot/sub caliber bullet theory in high esteem for anything smaller than an Abrams Tank. Not a muzzle loader, sorry... I assume you will be shooting such loads with the smokeless if not both?

The gun mentioned in the other thread runs a .40 caliber 370 grain bullet with an average BC around .330. Works well in the wind. You can probably do something of that sort with your 700 build if inclined but I don't think it'll fly with smokeless loads.

There s a fellow over on Doug's Board named Slufoot. He did a 45-70 Encore barrel for me, I sent him the barrel and a breech plug from a Savage smokeless m/ler, and he coverted into a .45 caliber smokeless m/ler. His charge wasn't much over $125.00 for the whole works, he did a great job and the gun shoots extremely well. He can also do H&R's and just about any single shot rifles. Don't know if he does the Remingtons, but he probably does.


JohnP