A bit out of the loop here. These break action front stuffers seem to sell well in these parts.

Why?

One reason is, some of them are made in a "Northwest Edition" meaning the ignition is exposed to the elements as required for hunting in Warshington, Idaho and Oregon.

My son and I got muzzy cow tags for wash this year. Gotta get him a rifle. I've been using my old stainless walnut TC Firehawk for like 13 years now. No breech plug. Anyway just wondering what the attraction is. Seems pretty tuff to beat an inline.

I think the break actions sell well because they're promoted heavily and most think they're easier to clean.

I much prefer a 1 piece stock, and will gladly accept the extra 5 seconds it takes to remove/install the breech plug.

As a group, the break actions are also some of the oogliest guns ever made.

If you like your Firehawk, check out the Williams Gunsight website for used MLs. They often have really good prices, and you might find another one.

I always thought the walnut/ stainless Firehawks and Thunderhawks looked very trim and handy.

Oh boy! It's a beauty! Slim and easily my favorite rifle to carry that I own.

The boy and I kinda like that Carbon fiber weave stock on the Knight Bighorns. Heavy but they balance well. I agree as a group the majority are pretty damn oogly as you'd say.

I will look at that site thanks.

About the only good thing I see about them is they are a lot more impervious to moisture, which is a big factor in the Colorado Muzzle loader season.

However, I use a Hawkin side lock or TC Black Diamond that has an open breech plug. I just take a little extra care to keep them dry.

Don't know how old your boy is but there can be a huge different in length of pull between different models.
I don't have a lot of experience with muzzle loaders as we just bought our first two inlines.
However my wifes TC Impact didn't break the bank and fit her 5'6 frame perfectly. It will easily shoot 1 inch groups at 50 yards.

?? Every break action I know of is an in-line. With an easily-removed breech plug, and fewer moving parts than a plunger-style action.

Nothing wrong with a Firehawk. The reason I like break actions like my T/C Triumph better than my Firehawk or any plunger-style action like a Knight or "Bolt Action" like a Remington is functionality. For the same barrel length you lose 6-7 inches of overall rifle length (and the corresponding weight) from the "action" which is really unnecessary on a muzzleloader.

In other words, if you wanted to design a handy, lightweight, fast-pointing muzzleloader from the ground up, you'd ditch the action.

The original muzzleloaders didn't have an "action" because they didn't need one. All that was needed was a lock to hit the primer. Once breechloaders were developed with the capability to hold and load multiple rounds, then actions became useful. If you look up the definition of action, it's the mechanism that loads, fires, and ejects a cartridge.

Snowwoof,

He's 6-4at 21yrs!

Smoke,
Pardon the statement. And thanks for the help. Suppose what I really meant was traditional inline. I Like the fact mine doesn't have a removable breech plug as I've heard horror stories of guys breaking wrenches trying to loosen a breech plug to clean.

I do see a cleaning advantage though.

Just got a new Sportsmans about 10 miles away and tomorrow is the grand opening.

We will check out your T/C triumph...

Thanks

When I got my TC Black Diamond, instructions said if I used anti seize grease on the breech plug, I would not have a problem. I ended up having to send it back to TC to get one removed after firing 5 shots and it seized in there. Yep, broke a wrench. Now I fire three shots, break the seal by just loosening and retighten and MIGHT sh0ot it two more times before I take it out and clean it.

Check out the breech plug, it's a totally different design, easy to take out, only about a quarter turn. It's not threaded all the way around. I don't even bother to grease the threads or put teflon tape on 'em. It really is a good design.

It's not only an advantage for cleaning, but if you ever have a misfire, or just want to unload without shooting, it's nice to be able to just pop it out.

Those are a nice design; just don't know how safe they are quite yet. Guess I just don't like the thought of missing threads and large explosions.

What are the pressures on a "normal" ML load anyway? I'm shooting 80 grains of BH209 and a 348 PB, I'd guess the pressures were fairly low. The threads are deeper than other designs I've seen, and they run for about an inch and a half, look pretty stout to me.

Haven't singed any eyebrows yet, anyway.

a 50-90 with a 475 gr bullet and 71 gr of blackhorn is 26000psi

this should ballpark it.

We looked today and the three gun shops we went to didn't even have a single T/C... The knight bighorn was by far heads above the CVA's and Traditions. Neither or us like the 2 safety's on the Knight. And had it not been for the 2 saftey's that Knight it would be sitting here now.

Damn, maybe I'm just partial, but the kid has to at least touch, feel , and smell an Old 77/50, a Model 700, or a black diamond. Really wanta get bad ass? A Lyman Deerstalker stainless Walnut is the schitt. JMO...

Only reason I never owned a Black Diamond was because I couldn't stand that metallic Ramrod.

Thanks Ray. I've never heard of a problem with the new T/C breechplugs, I think it's a non-issue.

Since shotguns shoot sabot slugs at similar speeds as a ML you could assume that working pressures might be in the same ballpark.

Obviously this isn't 100% correct but it's ballparlkish close.

You can replace the metal ramrod with a nylon one. Then put a dab of black RTV on the front of the lug where the front action screw goes into. This eliminates all the noise of that alumimum bouncing around.

I went a step further and put a wood stock on mine.

Touch,feel, & maybe smell(at least make sure bore is bright & clean,no pitting) that 77/50. These are nice handing muzzle loaders. Feels alot like a ruger rifle.

Damn, maybe I'm just partial, but the kid has to at least touch, feel , and smell an Old 77/50, a Model 700, or a black diamond. Really wanta get bad ass? A Lyman Deerstalker stainless Walnut is the schitt. JMO...

Only reason I never owned a Black Diamond was because I couldn't stand that metallic Ramrod. [/quote]


If you're wanting to go old school, I can probably put a TC Renegade together. I know I've got .50 barrels, don't know about a .54.

Whats so ugly about this?

Ok that's just not cool! Trust me that not one of the ugly ones!

+1 Knight is a great made gun period. They have a few to choose from dependent on what your looking for. Two safeties suck, but hey so does a safety and a hammer, or is that two safeties....LOL....I don't care if it shoots strait!

That one is an exception.

Knight was supposed to be selling an updated version called the KPX, but it's still not on the website. Know anything?

I haven't head any thing. I guess the barrels come in 45/70 and a muzzle loader. I just got a 270 for mine. Now I have a 204, 270, and a front stuffer.

Traditional Inline?

You mean like the H&R break action that came out in the late 60s to early 70s?

Knight KP1

Im familiar with the Knight KP1. The 45/70 makes a fairly good 45cal fast twist ML conversion too.

The H&R reference was sarcasm because it was one of the first if not the first modern inline offered. Knights did not come out until about 1985 so the H&R would take the "traditional" production inline trophy. There were a one or two others made around 1969-1970 in very limited numbers.

http://www.peashooter85.com/post/41752627494/the-first-inline-muzzleloader-made-by-a-new

Isn't that the one could fire unlocked, resulting in the breech plug blowing out and rearranging the shooter's complexion?

The first models were a plug and oring. Later they changed to a threaded plug. IIRC they would even retrofit older models to a threaded plug.

Of course there were earlier inlines. That is why i used the terms modern and production to clarify.

Just like smokeless was the original BP substitute. It was invented roughly 100 years before Pyrodex.

They couldnt fire unlocked any more than any other break action, but as Overkill said the early breech plugs were unthreaded & held in place like a shotgun shell. There were rumors of blowouts when the gun was opened quickly on a hang fire or the operator got heavy handed capping the nipple and the charged ignited with resulting chaos. I dont know if any were ever substantiated or a case of "what if?". There are still many in use to this day.

Ahem.

stainless/walnut