Anyone running a 62-cal rifled bore?

I'm picking up a 62-cal flintlock rifle on Sunday. Just curious what loads (charge/ball/patch) folks are running.

I'm going to start out with .600 balls, 0.015 patches, and 80-ish grains of 2F and see where we wind up.

Thanks!

whoo boy!

What are you getting? Details, man, details!

I don't, but it's on my wish list. Would like to hear about yours & post some pictures too.

I commissioned Allen Martin to make me a rifle based on the Schreit rifle (RCA 18).

Some specs-

-46" Rice barrel, 1:56
-Davis lock
-single trigger (Allen told me he got it to a clean 3lbs)
-a really curly piece of maple for the stock
-subtle carving, not overly much
-brass pipes/lockplate/buttplate/trigger guard
-wood patchbox

Nice. Post some pics and betting it won't be hard to get shooting. Kind of a quick twist? Seems like my 54 is 1 in 70. Regardless, I want a 62 too.

That was Allen's recommendation. While Don Getz just recently passed away, I know Allen and he were in frequent communication, and Allen told me that the twist he selected for my rifle was based on talks he'd had with Don. The faster twist wouldn't require very large powder charges for accuracy, where a slower twist would.

Doing some initial speed estimates (Quickload has roundball velocity predictions....who knew????), 80gr gets me around 1400fps. Looks like an 80 yard zero gets me +2" at 45 yards, and -4" at 100. That's manageable.

Hate to be on the receiving end of that pumpkin.

no way it a 62cal doing 1400 FPS with a 80gr charge. I'd shoot it through a chrony to see what its actually doing.

That's is just a QL estimate. I will chrono it for real numbers. Remember, it's a 46" barrel, so it's going to get about as much velocity as possible for a given charge.

QL says to expect real results to vary +/-150fps from their estimate. Lube, patch, etc will all bear on the true measured velocity, of course.

I'm hoping to get to 100 yards without a huge holdover necessary. I really don't care about speed other than looking to get to 100 as simply as possible.

Be sure to post results, very interested in hearing how you do.

Will do.

I'm looking forward to this quite a bit. This whole project started off about 4 years ago. I got my name on Allen's list in Feb. 2012, and Sunday I finally get to put hands on it. It's still sort of surreal. I'd initially set out to get a Lyman Great Plains rifle, and through just pulling at the thread of my "one day, I'd like a Pennsylvania Long Rifle" idea in the back of my head, I wound up with my custom rifle.

I live in southeastern Pennsylvania, where the long rifle was born, and I've always had an interest in them. I settled in on the Schreit rifle pretty fast, since I'm born/raised in Berks County PA (where the original Schreit was made), plus I like the style of the early rifles.

I've already got ideas of a Lehigh or Bucks "Golden Age" type rifle in my head, in 32 or 36 caliber, for squirrels and paper punching......

Some pics of my rifle. (for those who asked to see it)..just picked it up today.

Photos courtesy of Allen Martin.















It's based of the John Schreit rifle, RCA 18. Sports a 46" 1:56 Hoyt Barrel, Davis lock, and is a 62-caliber bore.

All smiles here.....

That is beautiful and congratulations, around 150 grs of KIK FFG black powder should put you and that 62 cal round ball in a very good place.

Thanks for posting, that is just beautiful!

Thanks guys!

I got a few shots through it last night. 600 ball, 015 patch, 90gr 2F. Torched the patches, lol, so accuracy was "eh".

My father found some pillowticking he's had since before me (I'm 39, lol) that measures 024, so I'm going to try that out and see what it'll do.

I started low on charge to see what it was like. I've only shot 50's and 45's in the past, never a 62. Recoil was NOTHING with 90gr. I mean...NOTHING. So, up we go. It'll be fun to tinker with it, although I have to get it situated by 12/26 for the opener! Allen got 'er done a little earlier than planned so I could hunt with it, so I gotta get down to brass tacks here, lol.

What a doll! Envious here.

I didn't know Don Getz passed away. I bought a couple barrels from him, but it was years ago and I've been out of the loop.

Yeah, he passed away on Nov 25 (I remember that because it also happens to be my birthday).

Never got to meet him in person, but he was active on the ALR forum almost right up to the end, so I got to read some of his posts there.

Thank you for the compliment on the rifle. I'm hoping to burn a bit more powder in it tonight and see what I can get it to do.

Beautiful rifle, looking forward to hearing how the load development continues.

Thanks!

I'm really happy so far. As light as the recoil was, I'm ready to give it a bit more powder and start seeing where I can go with it.

Every account I've read of 62's says they just flat out hammer game with authority. Those 0.600 balls sure don't look like they'd tickle!

Are you considering trying .610 balls with a thin patch? An old friend with a .62 Jaeger found that to be a good combo.

Bucky Getz gave me a barrel one time. It is a .45 slow twist that had gotten rusty on the outside and had some kind of issue with the bore that caused him to relegate it to the "blems" pile. He couldn't remember why he down-classified it, so he said "aw heck, just take it". It is one of the sweetest shooting barrels I ever owned, and I never have figured out the blemish.

I swear, the next one I build is gonna be a .62.

Well, the 600's with 15 patches are sending the patches out as cinders. I guess a 610 may make a better seal, but my next step is the 600 with thicker pillow ticking I got a hold of for cheap (free).

We'll see today how that goes, then go from there. I want to chrono it at some point, too, to see how close QuickLoad is predicting the speeds. It's usually pretty good on smokeless stuff if I feed it good data, but I've never tried it with BP before.

I have stands with shooting rails on field edges, so I'd like to try for an easy "point and shoot to 100 yards" arrangement with this rifle. The barrel I guess cuts it to 99 yards?

That's a gorgeous rifle.

Thank you!

Shot again last night. 100gr with a 600 ball and 024 pillow ticking cut the patch. Dropped it to 90gr and the patches look perfect. I only got two shots with that setup (I have about 30 minutes to shoot after work before it's getting dark, and it was pouring rain, making visibility even worse), they hit about 3" apart at 35 yards with me leaning off the corner of a garage wall to shoot. Not the best conditions, but at least I know that load makes a decent seal and isn't cutting the patch.

I may see if I can scrounge up some 610's and rerun the 015 patches with those, see what comes of it.

The season starts a week from Friday, so I may have to "make do" with whatever shows the most promise, limit my shot distances accordingly, and then do my full work-up with the rifle in the late winter/early spring.

It's been many years ago so my memory might be off a bit, but I did shoot a .62 caliber Jaeger style rifle for a while. The barrel on mine was 36" long with a 1-72" twist rate ad a true .62 caliber grove depth.

This rifle shot best with balls of .610" diameter and denum patches (.225" if I recall correctly). Smaller balls or thinner patches killed accuracy. You "might" get by with .600" balls but your patches will have to be VERY thick to seal the groves properly.

I loaded this rifle with FF powder charges up to 160 grains, but finally settled on a "hunting" load of 110 grains of FFF powder. I chose FFF mostly because I could use the same powder to charge the pan on my flintlock. Load charges with FFF will be a bit lighter than with FF due to greater pressure being produced, but the velocity will be the same.

Any load less than 80 grains seemed to reduce accuracy quite a bit in my rifle and loads above 120 grains became uncomfortable with little gain in velocity. If I recall correctly, my 110 grain load of FFF gave about 1600 fps.

Trajectory with this load was very nice out to 100 yards (as far as I ever shot at game). With zero at 25 yards the big balls hit about 4" low at 100 (or as we used to say..."minute of coffee can")...well within the kill zone of a whitetail.

Those big balls really don't need a lot of velocity to kill well as they rely more on momentum than energy to penetrate. With round balls the drop in velocity at any distance over 50 yards is such that any attempt to gain a flatter trajectory with more velocity is a losing proposition.

I'd suggest you try to get some .610-.615" balls with a heavy patch and a load of 90-120 grains of powder. If you use FF grade powder....maybe 100-140 grains. Somewhere in that range should be the "sweet spot" for your rifle.

If you "have" to use the smaller .595-.600" balls you will need a VERY thick patch. Might consider a thin (.35-.45") patch of leather (as was used sometimes in original rifles) to make the undersize balls seal properly and avoid burn-through.

You are going to love the .62 caliber.....it's the "magnum" of the round ball age as the only effective way to gain "power" with round balls is to step up size.

TexasRick,

Thank you very much for the info. I saw some better results with the 600's and 024 pillow ticking patches. At least, the blowby was eliminated.

I need to get to Dixon's tomorrow (they're closed today) and see if he has 610 balls. If not, I'm stuck with the 600s for now. The season here opens a week from Friday, so the clock is ticking. This isn't normally how I like to do things, but Allen got the rifle done a few months ahead of schedule, so I'm gonna give it my all to get it ready to hunt!

The 600 ball and 024 patches loaded with some resistance, but not bad. About as much as I'd like, really. If it were much tighter, a field reload could get difficult, I think. I just need to get time to shoot and play around with it, and time is one thing with which I'm in very short supply.

My .62 Jaeger was built for me in 1979 by Jud Brennan.it has a swamped Green River barrel and walnut stock. It was especially made for a moose hunt that year. I worked up a load of 175gr 2ff and a .610 ball. I jumped my bull from his bed and shot him running away. The ball caught up to him at 50yds, hit him on the inside of the left ham. I recovered the ball just under the hide of the brisket. It traveled full length of the moose.

"Old Bull Knocker" has made meat many times in the last 35 years, including a Bison. I have three .54cal rifles that I hunt with from time to time but my .62 is my main meat gun. For deer I load it with 110gr 2ff and a .600 ball. This doe was taken last week.



I love hunting in the snow

The long gun on the left is a Brennan gun also in .54cal, the Jaeger on the right.



The business end of the .62

RWL,

Awesome post! Thank you for sharing the stories and the pictures!

I'm looking forward to messing around more with this rifle. I had hoped to shoot around 100-120gr 2F in my rifle. That long 46" barrel will wring a fair bit of speed from that charge, and recoil is about nil in the rifle.

Your rifles are beautiful, and clearly are capable, even if the locks are on backwards.

(I am left-handed, but I'm right-eye dominant, so I shoot righty....just so you know I'm just having a little fun. )

All my 62's have been fusils. 60-70grns of 3FG always got me hogs. .600 ball. .015 patch or wasp nest wad when out of patch fabric.

From Roundball on the The Muzzleloading Forum
http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/265741/

That is correct. Likely it's going a bit faster.

DigitalDan, you think so?

I haven't chrono'ed it yet. I figured I'd work for good patches recovered and accuracy, then see what the speeds look like and go from there. If the barrel will do it without cutting patches, the rifle delivers so little felt recoil that I'd happily keep on dumping in more powder...just 'cuz.

Give Fort Chambers Gun Shop, Chambersburg, PA a shout. I know they have .610 balls in stock. I buy them there to shoot out of my miniature cannon. I'm wishing as I type this that I hadn't been so dilatory in buying the .610 mold I've been threatening to do.

Awesome thread! Very nice rifles.

Chambersburg is a pretty good ride from my place, unfortunately. Not sure they could ship them here in time to get this squared away for 12/26 (season opener). I'll have to make do with whatever Dixon has in stock for this go-'round and keep tinkering over time with it.

I'll call them, though, and see what they can do.

Goll dang it you guys!! Especially RWL99 for posting those "wrong side" rifles. A big flinter has always been on my list, but I haven't pulled the trigger yet. Still have a couple weeks of deer season and some unused tags. Maybe I'll pull out the old Enfield and see if that quells the desire for a bit. This forum costs me sooo much money.

I have Allen's email address, if you want it.... he's got about a 3yr backlog, so you might want to get a move on. Just sayin'.....

I do. Probably not a lot, but 1400 fps isn't that tall of a ladder for a roundball to climb. Thinking 3FG by the way.

Gotcha.

I've been running 2f, so it'll be a tad slower than 3f.

I want to see how close QuickLoad gets, though. Just for curiosity's sake.

While a moose is sure a definitive penetration test, has anyone ever shot a 62-cal into water jugs or any other test medium?

Just curious....if not, maybe once this is all sorted out with my rifle, I'll blast some jugs to see what happens. Besides a mess being made.

Shoot some video of that!

LOL, I will try!

I skipped the 610's tonight. Talked with both Greg and Chuck Dixon, and they think the one cut patch I got was likely from it being a new barrel, especially since the next shot it didn't cut the patch at all.

I'm gonna see what I can do tomorrow, and if I can blast some jugs during the process, I will do so and attempt to get some video.

Well, this ain't a .62, but it is an 8 Bore. Try to watch the ram on the left. Goes down like Thor's hammer hit a home run.

http://vidmg.photobucket.com/albums/v298/muddler/Guns/Black%20Powder/IMG_2920_zpsjoluyrvf.mp4

Your .62 ought to do about the same; +/-.

Can't wait to see the jug test.. Should be pretty cool.

If possible, I'll try to jug test tomorrow.

Range today went well. 50 yard groups were 1.5-2", a little right of POA and a hair low. 100 yards was about 4" group, low and right. Allen and I are getting together to look at it tomorrow. He's going to flex the barrel a little to get it closer, and probably work for a couple inches high at 50 so it's about the same low at 100.

My chrono took a dump, so I couldn't check speeds, but trajectory, when projected in QuickLoad and then that speed is run through the Roundball trajectory calculator, they match up with what I get for drops on paper. Projected speed is 1580 with 105gr FFg and a 600 ball, which is what I'm running currently.

That rifle is sweet.
I almost went the .62 route when I had my J�ger built, but went with a .54 instead.
My only .62 now is a jug choked NSW Early English. It never shot .600's well so it's now a dedicated turkey getter.

Shot today and found a sweet spot.

120gr 2F, 0.024" pillow ticking with bear grease, 0.600" ball. 2" high at 50, good for windage. 1-1.5" low at 100, just a smidge right, but just a tiny bit.

Last shot of the day offhand hit a cardboard deer target through the printed on heart in the vitals...at 100. Sweet.

Then I smashed jugs. Sorry, didn't get a chance for video, but the jugs blew up about on par with when I shot them with the 45-70. First attempt, the ball shot out to the left after 3 jugs. 2nd attempt, it got out the back of #5 and deflected from the handle on the jug. It probably would have either bounced off #6 or made it in, but not out. But it passed through 5 jugs at 25 yards. Holes in Jugs 4 and 5 showed no substantial deformation of the ball.

Sweet. Now go whack something with it!

The season opens on 12/26, runs to 1/24. Hope to get it "blooded" soon.

rwl99, I noticed the muzzle end of your rifle and it looks quite particular, what is the purpose of the "rough" edge on the muzzle?

Many of the originals had crowned muzzles like that. The reason I'm told was to open the muzzle to make it easier to start the ball and also to be decorative.

It's a coned muzzle, which greatly helps with loading.

Mine is also coned, but not quite as "fancy". Here it is with a 45-70 round for perspective.

thanks, I was thinking that the coned muzzle would help in loading a patched ball. It sure looks neat.

thanks!

Coned muzzles help a lot. The theory is part of the design philosophy with false muzzles as well, albeit very subtle in form.

Our flintlock season opened on 12/26. I've been hunting fairly hard since then, and have come close a few times. The first morning, about 15 minutes into shooting light, I had a 6pt buck at 20 yards broadside. I shot a buck earlier this year, so my one and only buck tag was gone, and Mr. 6pt got to go on his merry way unharmed.

That evening, I had three nice does slip through a shooting lane at 50 yards before I could get a shot. The next night, a doe came almost into a lane where I could shoot, then swapped ends and was gone.

A couple days ago, I went out in the frosty cold weather and was rewarded with a doe approaching to about 30 yards. I quietly eased the lock to full cock, only to find it wouldn't engage in that position, and thus my rifle was...well...useless. Talked to the rifle's maker, and he met me the next day and repaired it on the spot. Back in the game, I loaded her up and got out there on New Year's Eve. As I climbed my stand, I got to see out into the field behind it, and there stood a deer. She was at 190 yards, but the terrain would let me close pretty easily by 75 yards. 115 yards is doable with my rifle, if I can get into a supported position. So...I tried a stalk. I got to 110 yards just fine, but the terrain wouldn't give me line of sight from prone, and sitting wouldn't work, because the ground sloped too much to my back, making it very hard to get on target, and requiring too much muscle contraction to hold position, making it less steady. While trying to figure out my next move, the wind swirled and they decided they didn't want to stick around.

Last night I went out to sit a field stand again. The deer seemed to be feeding heavily on the grass in the field, so I figured I'd try it. Winds sustained in the 15mph range with gusts over 30 were not helping, but they slacked a bit toward dark.

Just past sunset, the wind was somewhat abated, and looking to my right, a small doe stepped out. I watched her feed for a minute or so, having no shot at the moment, but no others came out. She moved closer, so I twisted around in the stand and got my left hand over to the right side and on the shooting rail. Properly oriented, I waited for her to pass into an opening. I finally got my shot, let the pressure on the trigger gradually stack until the sear released....the rifle went off as fast as it's ever gone off, which is very quick. The remaining wind moved the smoke enough to let me watch the results of the ball strike on the deer. It was very, very dramatic.

When the ball hit, the deer was literally smacked down. That's not just a phrase, she was basically swatted straight down. She landed on her back, hooves in the air, and never twitched or kicked. When I went down to the deer, there was a big wad of deer hair 6-8 feet closer to my stand from the deer.

Here's the photo:



When I checked out the deer, I was very surprised to discover that neither the entrance nor exit wounds were visible! The blood in her nose said I shot her through the lungs, but no holes???

I had shot her quartered toward me. The ball entered at the base of the neck, slightly forward of the near side shoulder and high on the deer. I was in a 15' stand shooting down a slope, so I had a pretty steep down angle in addition to the deer being quartering toward me. The ball exited behind the far side shoulder, about midway top to bottom. With the hide off, I could see a LARGE hole in the muscle going in, and an equally large one going out. Apparently, the angle of the shot let the deer's hair lay down over the holes. The holes in the hide were about ball-size, and I'm shooting 0.600" projectiles from this rifle.

Also surprisingly, there appears to be almost no bloodshot meat around the wounds. I'm shooting 120gr of 2F powder, and the trajectory I have with it, checked against a roundball trajectory calculator, says I should be getting 1750fps, give or take. I had thought it might beat up the deer kinda badly, but it didn't.

So there we are....although I have a few more doe tags, so we'll see if I can whomp another one yet.

Great job and story, congrats! Makes that rifle even more special now. From the description of the shot, sounds like you took out some vertebra. Would account for the bang flop. The deer I shot last year was hit similarly and reacted the same. Hope you get to "whomp" another!

tddeangelo

How much does your rifle weigh? I would like to build a longrifle, but, thought I'd have to go to a smaller caliber to keep the weight reasonable.

It's 10.5lbs. Part of that is the 46" barrel. Part is I chose an early Berks style to pursue, and they are more stout rifles. Go with a Lehigh or Lancaster and I bet it'll shave a good 1-2 lbs off the weight.

The balance is so dead on, though, it carries so easy. I'm also 6'1" and 210, so carrying a bigger rifle isn't a big deal for me.

Thanks for the info. My current Hawken-style rifle is 8.5 lbs. While we are a similar size and I felt the same when younger, the older and more crippled I get I'm not sure I'd want anything too much heavier.

I'm 39, if that helps.

I have carried TC Hawken rifles, as well as a TC Renegade and a Lyman Great Plains rifle. I don't find my custom rifle more difficult/cumbersome to carry than any of those rifles.

I held a 54-cal from the same rifle maker...a Lancaster style schimmel. Couldn't have been more than 7lbs.

Ha! 39! It's all downhill from there! Actually, I'm almost 49, only 10 years older. But, I have really bad legs that make it very challenging to walk in the woods these days.

I've hunted with both of those rifles as well and your info is helpful. Thanks.

Mine was a Jim Chambers kit, a Mark Silver - Virginia Rifle.
It was put together by Steve Zihn out in Wyoming.
It is a .62 uses 90 grains of 3f Goex weighs 8.5 lbs.



Yours is beautiful, and looks like it shoots as well as it looks.

I've been hunting with muzzleloaders for 30 plus years and fill a lot of tags, mostly with a 54. My favorite is a 54 Hawkin halfstock made for me by Steve Zihn, a very good friend of mine who lives about 30 minutes down the road. I have all the fixin's for building a 62cal fullstock Hawkin flinter with a custom made barrel by Bill Moody,who also made the barrel for the 54. Both are based of off originals from the Buffalo Bill museum in Cody. The 54 is good and hefty and balances perfectly and steady, expect the 62 will as well (if I can ever get time to work on it and finish it.

j2, that's a nice looking rifle!

viking, I've only used (briefly) a 45-cal and (much more than the 45) a 50-cal prior to getting my 62, so I can't directly compare them. I can say, with one deer under my belt with the 62, I'm extremely impressed. Hopefully I can knock down another one before the season ends, but it's tough hunting this late in the year.

I have not seen a single instance online of anyone who got a 62 and later regretted it.

Thanks tddeangelo. That .62 is big hunk of lead that does a number on deer.
If I am correct Steve told me its the same as a 20 gauge slug.

62-cal fowlers are 20ga, yes. The roundball weighs approx 324 grains. They bleed speed fast, but they have a whole pile of energy behind them.