I have seen the hype of the Remigton 700 muzzleloader. Being someone that is brand new to muzzleloading I know next to nothing about it. I do know that the higher velocities advertised as acheivable with the Remington appeals to me, but the rifle runs nearly twice what other muzzleloaders go for. Are there other muzzleloaders that offer similar longer range performance? I'm interested in the rifle only because it opens up more tag opportunities too me. I spend a lot of time shooting and am sure I can become proficient with just about any rifle.

you'll find that with unknown wind conditions, these long range muzzleloaders will basically be hailmary shots.

long range accuracy may mean a bit different things to different people

this link to a ballistic program may help
http://www.ctmuzzleloaders.com/ctml_experiments/rbballistics/rbballistics.html

the civil war era sniper rifles were muzzle loaders and had several documented cases where officers were hit out past 600 yards, but thats with mini balls, with a patched round ball I doubt consistent hits past 350 yards are to be expected, but theres plenty of documentation of precise hits being made out at 250-300 yards in the revolutionary war to the mountain man era in the 1770s-1830s
Ive read several times that historical documents the British navy personnel wrote during the revolutionary war mentioned that ships should not be docked closer that an absolute minimum of 300 yards from any shore as that was sure to induce sniping and chances of being killed was high

I know from using it that that my 58 caliber hawken replica with its 42" barrel has no problem hitting a beer can size target off a decent rest at 200 yards or a bit more at least 50%-70% of the time on the first shot, Ive certainly kill deer and hogs at that range occasionally, using a patched round ball over a 95 grain charge of black powder

now I will mention I use a tang site


The Battle of King's Mountain in 1780, another decisive victory, was won by rifle-toting backwoodsmen. These heroes were quickly gathered together from the neighboring southern Appalachians. At the close of the war, a British captain wrote in effect that the Americans had riflemen who could hit a man anywhere they liked at 200 paces. He suggested that at King's Mountain the mountain men whipped the British troops.
I good pretty confident at hitting a 55 gallon drum out at 700 yards with the hawken rifle I linked too posted above, shooting from a sitting position, but the rear tang site was required, and a 600 grain mini over 110 grains of 1f powder was used, and yes even at that range it punched holes in the drum but it was hardly something Id use On game, but it was fun!(I got the correct range by walking in the slug impacts and trial and error, your aiming something like 40 feet over the barrel, or 12 barrel heights over it even with the rear site elevated

I have a TC Black Diamond and with a scope I can put a 3" group at 100yrds with Powerbelts. It can take to 150 gr of powder with a 295 gr PB. The problem is with out the scope and using the factory FO sights, they are too big to do any serious shooting accurately past 150 yards.

Most new ML's will take 150 gr of powder and that will work out to 200 yards and maybe further. Way past my capability though.

depends on the shooter and the definition of long range

I do a lot of shooting with centerfires out past 1000 yards. I'm familiar with the challenges of wind. I'm thinking from a hunting standpoint I would be very happy with reliable performance out to 300 yards. I would like to try some target shooting with the rifle out to 500 yards also.

My hawken 54 with large conicals is an easy 200 yard elk rifle with irons. Pretty much a solid 1.5 inch and less at 100 yards grouper. IIRC that bullet is No Excuses brand maybe, 545 or 565 grains and its a TC kit gun but with a Green Mountain barrel on it as teh factory barrel sucked and was not better than 3-5 incehs at 100...

My TC Contender or whatever the new name of those are, Encore I think mine is, 45, with a sabot bullet I cna't think of right now, .357 diameter and 195 grains is easy good for deer to 300.

The first shot a buddy ever took out of that gun was at a small mule deer buck at 218 yards and first shot first kill.

The wind is always an unknown. And I'm a competitive shooter. But its never hard to get a decent idea of what it is, at least if you shoot a lot and apply what you learn. You'll learn enough to know when and how to shoot and when not to.

FWIW on charges of 100 or more grains so to speak I have always ended up with better groups with an over powder felt wad of some thickness.. seems to protect the sabot base or the lead base of a big conical.

My .40 smokeless makes a 300 yard shot fairly easy. Finding a deer that far around here is hard - most all of my shots are 75 yards and closer.

326 yards is my furthest kill. 195 gr Barnes sabotless @ 3,000 fps. Pac-Nor .401/.408 16 twist

History doesn't say much about the percentage of long range misses.

For a production 50 cal sabot gun, the Remington Ultimate is top shelf in my opinion and is most capable of reaching your stated goals.

My recommendation with that particular rifle is to use Bob Parker's 275BE or MH bullets with Blackhorn 209. This combo already has a stellar track record with a number of end users, seeing exceptional accuracy and killing game animals well beyond your performance goals. The load Bob is currently running is probably peak for this gun, which is head and shoulders beyond anything going for a production 50 cal sabot rifle.

I just realized that Nevada restricts me to using blackpowder or a substitute and peep sights for hunting. The peep sight would limit me to 200 yards or so with my eyes.

Mine is intended for CO elk, so I installed Mark 4 Picatinny bases under a Lyman 57 sight, which has a repeatable quick release mount. I can switch between fixed sights, either with peep or as ghost ring, a scope, or I can mount an Aimpoint Micro. All being repeatable so to add versatility to the rifle.


I can leave the rear sight in place and install an Aimpoint Micro on the front Mark 4 Picatinny base so that the fixed sights co-witness with the Aimpoint. Lots of options.


The sight maintains a relatively low profile, and though I can remove the peep and use it as a raw ghost ring, with the appropriate sized peep, accuracy is exceptional within the range I'd use the fixed sights. Using the fixed sights as a ghost ring, during low light times within about 50 yards or so, I'm nearly as fast as with using an Aimpoint Micro, which by the way can mount on the front Mark 4 Picatinny base.


The factory Rem sight has a .0750" wide bead, which is a bit too coarse for me beyond about 150 yards. I replaced this with a 1/16" bead which allows me to go out to about 200 yards before it subtends too much.


100 yards with scope, the rifle shoots insane tight groups when I use optical sights.


150 yards using the aperture sights, I can hold under MOA with my eyes and the bead is fine enough to be workable out to about 200 yards under field conditions.

Not sure of your regs vs CO, but I'm leaning toward the new Federal sabotless muzzleloader bullet in lieu of the Parkers for elk. Otherwise, the Parker bullets for everything of size or distance where legal. The factory Rem bullet and sabot combination is not quite as accurate, but still holds MOA and is plenty capable to handle most normal medium sized game applications where a jacketed bullet / sabot is legal.

Best

That is a very good shooting rifle. My Pro Hunter stays under 3" out to 250 but either because of me or it opens up pretty quick after that. It will do that with 300 gr Sabot over Blackhorn 209, it does not do as well with pellets.

I shoot long range all the time 100 t0 200 yards .Bang deer dead

Your eyes can limit you but remember with irons there are wasy to help your vision and by the type of rear and front you use...

BTW don't get caught up on fine front blades... fine ones are hard to focus on, wide ones easier, and you have to see that front sight more than anything.

That's some good shooting. Clever setup too. That could easily be all the rifle a boy would ever need.