Just put my daughter in for a leftover doe tag ML hunt. I have two different smokepoles to let her choose from an H&R Huntsman and an Encore Endeavor, both are .50 caliber. I'm thinking a patched round ball load will be the easiest on her out of either rifle, but I'm wondering how well they'll shoot.

Here are the rules we must play by:

The nice thing is if we don't connect with the ML I can turn her unfilled tag in for a regular season rifle doe tag. So if I can't find a good load for 50-60 yards we can just use ML season as scouting trips. However my daughter say's she's game to try a ML this year.

Hornady XTP Bullets 44 Caliber (430 Diameter) 180 Grain Jacketed Hollow Point with green Harvester sabot.


Hornady XTP .45 Caliber .451" Diameter in 185 grain with black, smooth Harvester sabot

Precision Polymer Tip 50/40 blue sabot 180 grain sabot/bullet (prbullet.com)

(C.O.P.) Solid Copper Bullets 45 ACP (451 Diameter) 185 Grain Hollow Point Lead-Free.... (copy and paste this one in a Google search box)

Guess you didn't take a look at the rules. I can't use anything but full bore projectiles. No Sabot allowed in Colorado, though they would make things easier if I could.

Its too bad some people dont read or comprehend well. Parroting does not require this skill.

I hate Powerbelts but with a reduced load there is one that comes to mind for deer.

250gr Powerbelt AeroLite with 60-80gr of powder might work ok for your needs. CVA claims best results with 1800fps or less impact speeds.

There is also a 250gr all copper Thor but im not sure how well those will shoot or perform with reduced loads. You could call Terry at Thor Bullets and ask him.

Depends on how the guns are twisted. I am betting the Encore is pretty fast. Maybe try a Hornady Conical in the Encore. I dont know that a conical would be ideal recoil wise for a young lady.

If your H&R is twisted 1-48, 60 grains of 3F behind a PRB will knock down any deer at reasonable range. If she can take more, add more.

Twist is gonna run this game.

I think both rifles he listed are 1-28 twist but im not positive on the Huntsman. I know the early 58cals were a slower twist, if the Huntsman is a 1-48 i would try a round ball load for sure. Most of the lighter conicals like REALs should have no problem with either twist if loads are kept to moderate levels. T/Cs often have trouble with conicals if the QLA if off center.

A 50cal 1-28 can shoot round balls sometimes but loads will probably need to be 60gr or a little less.

In either rifle I'd try both a PRB and light/mid weight Powerbelts and use whichever shoots best. PRBs with a light charge may shoot fine out of the fast twist Encore, but you'd have to try 'em to find out. As long as you're not pushing Powerbelts as fast as possible, they do just fine.

You can try PRBs, but it's unlikely they will shoot well at a muzzle velocity suitable for hunting.

Power Belts, the new Federal bullet, or 300gr Hornady FPBs are probably your best choices, combined with a reasonable powder charge. The weight of the Encore should allow a little more power without objectionable recoil.

The new Federal bore sized bullet is not pure softer copper and expansion may not be adequate with mild loads. It a copper alloy like the Hornady Monoflex bullet. Probably copper and zinc similar to guilding metal.

Its a tough little bullet. My best guess is the Aerolite is best suited for this load because of the fairly soft lead and large hollow point cavity. REAL conicals may also work but as i said T/Cs sometimes wont shoot them well.

250gr Aerolite would be perfect. Especially with around 80 grains BH209.

245 gr Powerbelt over 75gr 777. Easy to load, easy to shoot. Assuming it is accurate enough out of your rifle, lethal.

For a lead bullet try the 250 grain Lee REAL bullet. They perform very well.

Thanks for all the suggestions, I have plenty of things to try for sure.

Is bh209 the new favorite/magic bp substitute? I have a full pound of 777 and some old Pyrodex. I'll probably try those first.

There were no rules, when I first read your post this morning. It took me about 10-15 minutes to research what I wrote in reply. So somewhere between your original post time-stamp and my time-stamp about 15 minutes later, you added that quote to your post.

It had to been added real quickly, because had you waited a little longer, your post would show it being edited. OR, you unchecked the EDITED" box of your post, when adding that quote.

So perhaps I read your original post a minute or two after you posted it, without that quote, at about 6:16. That is why I never saw your quote, because it wasn't there at the beginning.

Poster Overkill can kiss my a-double-s for his needless, senseless remark about me at 7:18 AM.

Some people are real a-hoes and Overkill is the President of that club.

BH209 is great, but requires a bullet that gives some resistance for proper ignition. I tried it with one of those little Hornady PA conicals and it blooped the dang thing out at about bean shooter velocity and left a smoke trail like a bottle rocket.

777 is fine, but does go bad, so make sure you test the batch you use for hunting just before you go.

No problem, I edited it immediately because I forgot to add the rules. I'd already saved them to my clipboard. I didn't mean anything by my post, I just thought I got the regs in there fast enough. I realize Colorado is one of a few states that don't allow sabots so I needed the regs in there.

.50 cal? You might try 35 gr of 777 FFG behind a .490 or .495 patched ball using pillow ticking which can be bought at any fabric shop. It's easy to ID as it is off white and has blue lines sewn in. Cut the ticking in strips 3/4 inch wide then just cut off a bunch at 3/4 long. You need to wash the pillow ticking a couple of times to soften it up. I dip the patches in water then squeeze the water out with my fingers when shooting matches. The semi wet patch won't be in the barrel long enough to wet the powder. You can just substitute the water with crisco shortening for hunting. You need to try the two different ball sizes to see which one your rifle bore likes. My old Thompson .50 loved .495 with the pillow ticking. You can work your way up with the powder charge but you don't have to get crazy and will probably settle on 55/60 gr. Shooting matches with 35 gr is very accurate with no kick whatsoever. Just make sure you seat the ball all the way down as I heard one of the reason H&R might have gone out of biz was perhaps not because they made a bad rifle but because folks will do what they do. Douglas once had issues with their BP barrels also. I shoot a .45 cal Kentucky using a Douglas barrel and it's the most accurate BP ML I own.
Ref powders: I use Trip7 and love it as it burns fairly clean and is very easy to clean. It does burn a hair hotter than Goex but it's is also a little bit tougher to ignite. I use Goex in my .45 Flintlock ML to prevent hang fires.
I also use a drop tube made from an arrow shaft with a static free funnel JP'd on top. I slide it down the barrel to make sure the powder goes straight down to the breech and does't hang up to be mushed by the patched ball going down. It keeps everything consistent.

Here's my kit for the range. I use the rubber mallet to tap around the breech after I stick in the powder. It ensures I get the powder down into the breech channel. Feel free to ask any other questions.

250gr or 270gr sabertooth over 70-80 grs of 2f 777

take about 10 oz,s of lead fishing weights and a bunch of wally world bags and take the butt pad off and stuff em layed into the stock for a little weight /recoil reduction

should be fine
low recoil and good power and accurate
50-75 yds all day long

That's what I was thinking. To answer the OP's question, yes it is the "new best powder." I haven't seen the problem the other poster talked about, needing resistance to light, and I'm using powerbelts--they don't offer much resistance.

It does require a standard 209 primer, not one of the special ML 209 primers.

I would also look at a 250 Thor, over about 60-70gr pyrodex/777. Should easily give you what you are looking for, and not to hard on the kid.

I think you can get a sample bullet kit to see what size your rifle likes, since they are full bore.

My rifle shoots the Buffalo Ball-et about as well as anything. It is a .54 with 1:48 twist, never tried it in a fast twist.

Ballets shoot better beyond 50 yards with a slower twist like the 48 (for instance). You can also gain a little more distance and accuracy using a fiber wad or 30-40 grains of cornmeal between the powder and ballet.

Bought 60 of these bullets to give them a shot. Man they're expensive to say the least! I wish they'd offer them in larger quantities than 15. At almost $2 a bullet I hope they shoot well.

50 grs. of 2F, and a round ball..... My brother and I started shooting that load when we weighed about 40 pounds. It will kill a deer deader than a hammer...

And don't worry about real black powder corroding your gun like crazy. Just run a couple patches down it and you're good. I've shot more black powder than any other powder in my life, and my muzzleloaders have always shot great.


K.I.S.S.

I will not load a light, sub-224 grain ML bullet of any design, with less than 80 grains of powder. I demand of myself humane kills, out to 100 yards.
If you are only using 50 grains with a 177gr round bullet, that shot needs to be relatively close....... somewhere in the 50 yard ballpark.

I agree it is a light load, but for a young girl and 50-60 yard shots, it will be more than adequate....

60 grs and a .45 here.... Neck shots only...grin




Ben

How big is she and how much recoil is too much? A simple matter of physics, the heavier the projectile and the faster it is moving when it clears the muzzle, the more the felt recoil all other things being equal. Absent a sabot, the lightest projectile will be the PRB. Assuming the guns fit her equally well, I would pick the gun that has the slowest twist rate, and if both the same, the heavier gun. I believe with reduced charges the faster twist can still deliver reasonable accuracy, at least at the ranges we are talking about here. I have a light TC New Englander .54 that rattles my tooth fillings when loaded with 100gr Pyro RS behind 435gr Maxi Ball. I wanted a 50 yard PRB load for jackrabbits, but rather than fiddling with the sights that were dead on at 100 yards with the hunting load, I backed off the powder until the PRB found the x-ring at 50 yards, which is a 40gr charge. Recoil is about like an M-1 carbine and it makes clover leafs in the 50 yard target.

Good luck to your young lady on the hunt.

That's a big doe.

I dunno, they said they only weighed 40 lbs???

Seriously, that is one nice doe!

Nice Job on the Doe ..
What I would recommend is getting her out and doing some shooting . Start off with that light load and slowly move up , giving her time to get used to each load . you might just be suprised at the laod she can shoot .She is going to define her range with accuracy and load .

With a 50 cal , a load of 50-65 grains backing a patched round ball will be more then enough and recoil wont be all that heavy unless she is shooting a synthetic or light wood stock . I shoot 80 grains of 3F in my 54 and that does just fine on mule deer and even elk at closer ranges under 50 yards . On mule deer , that charge works fine out to 100 which is my limit when hunting with a muzzleloader , doesn’t mater if im shooting a heavy conical and 110 grains or not .
My wife uses a lighter load in her 50 even for elk . But then we are for the most part in the 25-40 yard range and hunting cows .
Again I would let her decide her acceptable range . Teach her to Hunt . Explain to her why she needs to get within a given range and how that range is going to change as she grows and gains knowledge from practice .
Teach her that passing up a shot isn’t the end of the world ,No shame in it . That it’s the responsible thing to do when it not safe or within her or her chosen weapons range .
spend time now by getting her out and teaching her to stalk and track . if your hunting from standsor blinds . teach her how to pick location , judge distance ....... ther is alot to teach

Another option if needed, link here
I added more lube to mine, SPG or liquid Lee Alox worked fine.
They run around 240gr so a bit heavier than a PRB.
I'll rummage and see if I have any left in my goodie box.

Well this endeavor is costing me even more money! I bought a bottle of BH209, and a lot of different bullets to try. Then I was reading online that the BH209 and the primer carrier with the H&R aren't compatible, so I wound up ordering a Metrics Unlimited breech plug.

I tried to order the Precision Rifle breech plug but they were out but i did order some of their Ultimate number 1 semi spitzers to try. Now I'm thinking of ordering a couple of aperture sights for both rifles, just to increase the range in case I ever want to chase game again with these rifles.