I have a question for some of you muzzleloader guys. I have a bunch of the factory Remington 405 grain JSP bullets for my 45-70, and was wondering about using them in my 50 caliber Apex this year. I found where MMP makes a 50 cal sabot for .458 bullets. Anybody ever try this combination in a muzzleloader? What kind of ballistics? How did they shoot/perform?

Thanks, Troy

I used them in a Knight KRB-7 and had good accuracy. It was awhile ago but I believe the charge was 100 gr. BH209 with a "booster" of about 10 grains of Goex 3F to prevent hangfires (because the KRB-7 breechplug was not ideal for BH209). In any case, as I recall, they printed groups under 2 inches at 100 yards. I would assume the velocity was about 1,500 fps.

http://www.namlhunt.com/mlbullets10.html

I would not mention using a 405gr bullet to CVA if you ever need to call customer service. They prohibit the use of bullets over 300gr in sabots in the APEX manual.

You should easily be able to match or beat 45/70 405gr ballistics for trapdoors and get really close to 45/70 modern levergun ballistics.

Approach maximum recommended BH209 load data with a bit of caution. Pressures go up quite a bit with a 405gr bullet vs a 300gr. Start at about 90gr and work up very slowly and check your primers for signs of high pressure.

The .458 bullet is a real PITA to load with the orange sabot. I have a solid SS range rod and it was starting to bow in the middle trying to get them down the bore.

Is that with the Remington bullets, or just .458 bullets in general? And that was in a CVA?

Those Rem bullets should be .457 instead of .458

I just had a range session with various .458 bullets and the orange MMP sabots and blackhorn. I have a TC pro hunter.

Loading was super easy. Maybe it is due to the QLA in the TC barrel, but I could do it sitting down and holding the gun upright.

I started at 90 grains and had very good groups with the 300 and 350 grain Hornady FP's and RN's. I switched to Speer 350 FN's and upped the charges to 95, 100, and 105. Groups kept getting bigger. I went back to 90 grains and groups shrank to 1.5 at 100.

According to BH website, 80 grains with a 350 is 1550 FPS and 100 is 1750, so I am assuming 90 grains is right around 1650. I will set up my chrono next time to verify.

I plan on using either the speer 350's or a Kodiak 350 for my upcoming elk hunt here in New Mexico.

350 grains at 1650 fps equals bad news for the Elk!

Thanks, guys. I ordered some of the sabots, so I guess I'll just have to try a few of them. Also saw a box of 250 grain Barnes TTSX FP .458s, at the gun shop today, that also piqued my curiousity. They're designed for 45-70 velocities, so should work great. Decisions, decisions...............

120gr of BH209 and a 400gr is in the 1800-1840fps range. Possibly a little more depending on barrel length.

I shoot 73.5grs by weight BH 209 with the Hornady 350 FP and the Barnes Original PSP in a black Harvester Crush Rib sabot from my Encore.

Just got back from another range session.

Bumped the Blackhorn up to 115gr by volume and shot groups at 100 yards with:

Speer 350 = 1.5 inch groups
Hornady 350 = 1.25 inch groups
Kodiak 350 = .40 inch group.. NO kidding.

Kodiaks shot lights out. Recoil manageable. No Chrono this time, but my first group was 8 inches higher than the 90 grain groups.

Again loading was super easy. Clean up was a snap.

I figure I am running around 1900 FPS, but will verify with the Chrono.

I'd say those NM elk are in serious trouble Hornet!

No need to get too frisky with the powder charge. That bullet has been killing deer pretty dead at about 1100-1200 fps for a long time. In a light rifle, loading that bullet over a bunch of powder could make things pretty interesting.

I know they make a stout loaded Guide Gun rear back a bit...........

The Swift A-Frames in .451, .458, and .475 look interesting too. About a buck a pop though.