Of course. hit some stupid button on pad and whole post gone...

Rain. Jacket. They are almost all lined. HH imperfect 3/4 guide is what I've used for years. This year was so wet it just kept drawing all the moisture up the sleeves and got my under layers soaked. Plus you put on a rain jacket thats as wet inside as out every day.

I condensate enough in waders that the pants get damp between top of pants and inside of waders but so far have been able to deal with that.

But this top layers thing getting wet after dang near 2 months of rain in the field and usually no way to dry the clothes every night, IE sleeping bag eventually gets wet and stays wet too when you sleep with your wet gear...

Looking for an option. Used to be rain gear was not lined and we worried about noise maybe. And if you turned arms up it could run down into the sleeve. But not this damn draw up the tricot type lining and the whole coat remains wet. Praying for a day of sun to dry inside and out.

Thanks for any input/options.

Does need to be not safety orange but don't give a flip about camo.

And while at it cold feet in stocking foot waders I think I asked earlier too.... waders every day. Temps as low as 20. In the water its not a big deal, but rain. Wet wading boots. Feet just got cold and stayed. Toe warmers seem to die inside waders eventually due to lack of oxygen I suspect. No way to recharge chargeable basically. I have batteries for phone and Garmin but thats limited weight out where we guide basically.

Here ya go:

https://olefloridaflyshop.com/shop/on-sale/simms-closeout/simms-g3-guide-tactical-wading-jacket/?msclkid=344a67a5c68c1e1aaabe020f5ae3eca8&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=**LP%20-%20DSA&utm_term=olefloridaflyshop&utm_content=All%20Webpages

Simms jacket leaks eventually. Have worn them for years as a fishing guide because we are supposed to support the company per our boss. I don't even take that jacket out in the hunting fields.

This may have no solution.

Bottom line is If you are going to be moving and out in a driving rain all day — you are going to be wet !

The best solution I have found is to wear a really good goretex coat like a Simms, and keep a rubber Helly Hanson or poncho to wear over it in the wettest conditions

Very interesting, Phil! I used the Gore-Tex/Helly Hanson combo on my Alaskan grizzly hunt and it worked well....

Sorry, I didn’t realize you used it daily as a professional. I’ve worn mine hunting , fishing, and working for the last 20 years, and it’s never leaked.

But of course, you and I both know it doesn’t rain here in TX like where you work in Alaska.

I’d send that jacket back to Simms. They have an excellent product guarantee. Seems like there stuff is Lifetime warranty ???

Sounds like 458Win / Phil’s suggestion might be the way to go.

I have bought gore tex and dry plus items several times and are great when brand new. Doesn't take long before they start leaking if worn much. Cabelas wouldn't honor the warranty on the dry plus gear. I switched to rubber commercial fishing rain suit. You sweat in it but it doesn't leak.

Thats really interesting solution. Will be duly noted. The peninsula wasn't that wet this fall but after the summer of rain followed by moose rains and then ending up there I"d just about had it. Especially once the sleeping bag itself was wet.

Wet is what it is. Not being able to get dry in a wet tent situation isn't great at all. Especially for the clients but thats another thing. No cabins allowed where we hunt.

I expect wet if its driving and I"m out all day and moving. I don't expect it when its lighter rain and sitting still glassing and it just seeps up inside. But the goretex and HH will be duly noted. May buy a Stone Glacier top and cover it with HH. Its just more weight and bulk to carry right LOL

Simms gear doesn't have a problem Its the fact that folks keep thinking goretex is great. Its not. Even when brand new. Found that out at Camp Perry one rainy championship. Found out why and were it seeped too.

That’s tough when you can’t do a solid dry out. My annual 7 day moose hunt in the rainforest in October puts everything to the test

Simms waders and a pullover grundens rain jacket with neoprene sleeves is less miserable than other options and will keep you dry if not doing a crazy amount of hiking. You can get the jacket dry overnight if you flip it inside out and have a hot tent.

Everything goes out the window when you are packing meat though for long days. You just hope it isn’t pouring and you can take the rain jacket off.

I’ve learned to just tolerate being completely soaked. Even the highest quality stuff won’t keep moisture from wicking up through wrist cuffs, into your gaiters and thus boots/socks, etc. If you wear waders, moisture will eventually wick up your shirt and then down the inside of your waders.

First Lite SEAK works well for ‘light’ rains but normal rainstorms and walking around in wet veg? I have concluded there is nothing a guy can do but wear something besides cotton and learn to deal with it.

As far as your sleeping bag, keep a set of ‘sleeping’ cloths in a dry bag and only wear them when in the sleeping bag. Putting on wet cloths the next morning sucks but unless you have a seperate set for everyday, they’re going to be somewhat wet when you put them back on the next morning.

I’d love to find a better solution myself.

Gore-tex isn't "waterproof" at all. It allows water vapor to pass through it, either way. The outer fabric shell is supposed to keep "water" away from the Goretex membrane, but once the repellant in the fabric is compromised (about 2 days, mostly) no more "waterproof." Plus, exertion can (wiill) overwhelm the "breathability", even brand new. Heavy, wind blown rain.....well, just forget it.

Almost as big a marketing scam as the last "election".

It's fine, when new, lightly worn, in light rain or mist, sitting on one's ass. I like my Goretex stuff when snowmachining. There, it keeps me dry and wind-proof. I quit buying it years ago, making do with what I have for snow machining or ATV riding in light conditions.

Mostly I just wear HH if it's going to be wet. Worked on the fishing boats. Plus I now really do try getting dry again at the end of the day or a couple times a week. For hard-hitters in the field without cabins for extended periods (BTDT) all I can say is "YOU POOR BASTIDS!"

Hadn't thought of topping the Goretex pieces with "Rubber" rangear. I'll take the word of those still enduring harsh conditions, like Phil and and ROST. I'm of sufficient age, I probably ain't going there anymore.

KUIU has a few at different price points like this one, camo is on sale, https://www.kuiu.com/products/yukon-tr-rain-jacket-gunmetal?variant=42101991800990 or https://www.kuiu.com/products/chugach-tr-rain-jacket-gunmetal?variant=40479493816478

4 Way stretch doesn't hurt either, I have the Chugach TR Rain Jacket and wear it with or without rain, very comfortable.

A frustrating issue. I can wade chest deep for hours in my fabric waders and come out dry. An hour out in a raincoat and one is soaked.

The problem with that is if I don't put my damp wet layers in the bag they never dry out. So its loose loose. I keep switching layers of clothes though and socks. But when I get wet enough to compromise the bag it sucks.

I'm not at the age where I can just get wet and deal with it.

As to packing out and being soaked, its a goal. I have a bear hide. We are done and there is light at the end of the tunnel. Or moose as is. I don't mind that end of it so much. Granted I"m fortunate not to have to pack much very far. Couple miles at the most.

Like I've said sweating wet inside I expect and play a few games for that. But just glassing all day and still being wet and cold sucks. May have to give it up.

The one thing that made the biggest difference for me was setting up a nylon tarp and glassing from underneath it. I just use alders to tie to. Some glassing knobs this wont work obviously but with a little time I can usually find a place to set it up in the majority of places I glass from. I still wore rain gear underneath it but it helped with the rain running down my sleeves when glassing. Being that much more comfortable makes me glass much harder and be more productive. When its dumping rain and blowing sideways like most nice days on the peninsula its hard to stay focused when you're soaked and you cant keep your glass clean. The tarp solves this.

I was surprised how little it spooked brown bears. Several times in the fall we've actually shot bears on the creeks from under the tarp. Spring time was a non issue.

I use a Kelty Noahs tarp. Relatively cheap and durable. The bigger size(12x12 I think) is better because often I find a clump of alders and drape the tarp over the whole clump then cutt most of the middle of the clump out and sit there. The outer alders create the "poles"

I would take it down at the end of the day or it might blow away at night!

Works good on most of the Peninsula and Kodiak. Tougher on Unimak but Ive made it work there too.

My first thought was a jacket like Calvin mentioned. I know I love mine when out on the river in an open boat on wet days.
Another option I've seen is wearing long gloves that go up over the cuffs of your sleeves.

I'd be scared to have a tarp up most of the time cold bay for never seeing it again. LOL. We do that all the time at moose camp though.

I may have to give that some thought to attempt. Our knobs are rare to have vegetation on them. But I can figure a way to make it work. Just a few more pounds of tarp and stakes. First Soldier for us.

Gloves under maybe. Not over. That would drain into the glove. Its the water going to the end of the sleeve all day and just sits there as it drips off. Then it starts crawling the lining fabric on the HH back up my sleeves. Thankfully the outer Kifaru top is mostly water resistant but after enough time...

TAG

Well there’s “wet” and there’s “less wet” 😁

If you have a warm, dry-ish camp to get back to it’s a little easier.

Any recommendations for these long gloves? Link?

Sounds like a really good idea

Is there a possibility to improve your shelter? Is a lightweight large tipi style tent and stove an option? My old man has a 16 or 18' diameter kifaru tipi with a fold up stove.... it works great as long as wood is available.... really nice to dry out clothes over night and only about 20-30 pounds total...... may not be an option if you're backpacking or maybe you could pre stage it at a known spot???

.
I've tried a lot of different things over the years.
Carhartt heavy duty is the best I've found for construction work.
Heavy shell and proprietary breathable liner.
On a heavy rain day, condensation and sweat will win.
Occasional treatments of NikWax TX.Direct helps the shell shed water before it soaks in.

I have an original Columbia Widgeon that is good but in a drenching rain you'll get damp.
Zip out Thinsulate liner.
The shell needs the NikWax treatment.

Grundens commercial has nice neoprene cuffs but it's rubber raingear which as you know, has its own set of problems.

Hi 'N Dry bootfoot waders are getting popular for cold weather service.
I have not tried them.

It's too bad you can't set up a dry shack (tent).
IME, that is key to having a comfortable day out in the rain.
And extra sets of whatever, in case two days are needed to dry out.

Doubling up on the goretex style jackets works too. Outer layer is the sacrificial layer but the second jacket catches what seeps through the first jacket.

I did it for a season and I had one of my jackets blow out the back of my boat and never replaced it.

Key is to not hike hard in your rain gear if you can help it. If i know I have a 3-5 mile hike into where I want to start hunting i wear a sacrificial top knowing it will be soaked when I reach my destination and then I change out when i get there into my dry stuff. Then at least you get a few hours of hunting before you soak yourself again.

Simms has become horrible to deal with on warranty. The "Lifetime" is the lifetime of the product. Once the fabric is abraded a bit the warranty is gone. We decided in moose camp this year the best part of the Sitka Gear vest is the sleeve seams will not leak!

So, Pilgrim, you wanna be wet warm, or you wanna be wet cold? Them's your choices, in my experience.

Of course, once you stop moving....

Wood is an issue. But we have talked of a propane stove in the big Stone Glacier tents. We can get a propane bottle flown out. Wood is basically wet all the time and just won't happen unless you cut a year in advance and stash in a cabin. If we were in a cabin none of this would matter much lol

You Alaska pros are a special brand of tough. Think of the folks in the old days. Even tougher.
My hat is off to you.
F01

Polar Fleece bag over your sleeping bag works well to wick the moisture out of your sleeping bag. Wake up in the morning and outside of the polar fleece is wet but your bag is dry. A wood stove in a hot tent is a good way to dry your gear, the last couple of years to wet, I just stayed home during hunting season hate being wet for extended times! I tarp everything and keep it dry!

My Alaska tent of choice for non backpacking hunts is the Arctic Oven. I ran parachute cord inside the tent from one pole to the other. Our gear would hang over the cord. No matter how wet we got during the day, running a dual mantle latern or a tiny wood stove inside the tent would dry out our gear by morning.

We are in bomb shelters and Stone Glaciers. I have zero control over this. as noted no wood for wood stove. No lanterns. But I think its really close to us dropping our own coin on propane heater and bottle. We do have propane cook stove. The problem half arises though that the cookstove develops moisture in the tent. Hopefully the stove, I forget the name now, should help. I know they use on the Idiatrod trail so thats a start.

Thats one I've not heard. I keep a bivy bag over my wiggys bag to keep it from getting wet inside the tent from condensation. Maybe thats an issue, but I may grab a fleece liner and try that too. Really the bag being wet isn't an issue most of the time, but the times I had to crawl in with wetter than normal clothing it finally became a problem. Shiver half the night in a zero bag until things dried out. LOL

We are nothing compared... Read trophies won and lost... it is beyond what the folks put up with at times. I cannot imagine and the weights they dealt with on top of it. Everything wool and canvas etc...cast iron pans and so on.

I bought my first Arctic Oven used from Snowwolfe nearly 20 years ago. I still use it, and have since bought a second one new. I don't used them in Alaska Peninsula rain environments, but in winter ice fishing expeditions. I use Nuway propane heater-stoves in them. Cots. It's like sleeping in my bedroom at home, and a 5 gallon propane tank lasts for a few days continually running on low, and with a propane lantern running, too, during awakened hours when in the tent. That's in temps going as low as -30.

There's no way I'd personally haul all that on a Peninsula hunt.........but I'm not a professional guide with access to aircraft support, either, especially if you have multiple clients, one after the other. The Arctic Oven Artika with Nuway stove and a couple/three 5 gallon propane tanks is about as close to a small cabin as you're likely to get for a two week hunt (or more) in that miserable weather. And it will stand up to that wind, too, and maybe even better than a cabin.

Nuway is probably exactly what we are thinking. Gonna have to figure out what size but thats probably a question for them.

Sleep warm (preferably dry as well), take good care of your feet, eat enough calories. Just 3 things.

Most everything follows from there, at least for a time. Constant wet is survivable, just not fun!

One of my Nuways is a single burner, and the other is a double burner. Even in sub-zero temps, the double burner was completely unnecessary in the Arctic Oven 10x10. An Artika being bigger might be different.

The Nuway exhaust vented out the stack in the Arctic Oven makes all the difference over propane radiant heaters. It keeps the interior of the Arctic Oven as dry as the Sahara.

We tried the propane stove in the Arctic Oven the past two years. Short answer, no Bueno! First, it does not do enough to dry anything, even while we were eating a LOT of propane. After the first attempt we were assured we were doing it wrong. So last year we tried again. We are there for about a month. Second go around the propane use was worse, nothing dried, and the tent was cold.

Nothing matches a wood stove for drying a tent and contents. We cut at least a year ahead and stack some in the tent to dry... and we are not in a wet place compared to Kodiak or the peninsula.

Thats interesting . The Idiatarod trail breakers team uses them with great success but you have to have a vented tent. They even say they don't burn that much propane. They are 2000 miles of some interesting country and weather basically.

I've heard others have really good luck with other stoves non wood in Arctic ovens too.
Of course I would prefer wood, to dry stuff with. But alas as I've noted when you have no wood, its a no go.

I used a very small wood stove in my 10x10 Arctic Oven. When we did our annual Kodiak hunts we would carry 2 or 3 of those large "fireplace" logs. Just chop off a small hunk with a hatchet, toss it in the stove, add some driftwood, light, and interior of tent would get hot and dry.

As far as polar fleece sleeping bags. We used them inside the sleeping bags as a liner. When we exited the bag in the morning we pulled out the liner so it could dry while we hunted.

Ive done the fireplace logs in treeless country as well. Like you said a chunk goes a long way.

Ive also spent more than few nights in Bomshelters and its amazing how warm and dry a white gas stove and lantern can make it

I will say that the compressed wood bricks from the mill will blow you out of an 8 man TP with titanium stove it gets so warm. Thats all we take anymore if we aren't backpacking in to base camp. A blow torch to start.

that sounds nice too. fuel is the issue. No complaints from the pilot boss flying 25 pound propane in. OTOH ....

I wish we had an 8 or 12 man IMHO. I have a 6 down south and its great for stuff especially when you have wood.

Was not aware mills did compressed. Not sure if there is a mill anywhere close to us but will look into it. for other issues when allowed.

Calvin, are those wood bricks something you get from Viking?

In southeast, I can tell you that a seek outside tipi with liners and a nuway stove is perfect. You get to dry everything out every night so you can have fun getting it all wet again the next day! But how nice that is for morale to warm up, get dry, and hang out. After a typical day deer hunting we get back, check the boats, hang the meat, then change into dry sweats, t-shirts, and crocs to loaf around, often while it pours outside. I will say that with the tipi, don't bother with one unless you get the liners as well.

In regards to rain gear, it kinda depends on the day. If it's a true soaker I'll put the kuiu stuff on but most of the time I find myself just wearing wool. In the steady light rain we often have it takes a real long time to soak through and even then stays comfortable. Plus it's real quiet. The Asbell pullovers are outstanding! Another thing I like about wool is sparing unneeded wear and tear on the ridiculously expensive kuiu rain gear.

Problems I need to solve: My old stash of swedish army wool pants are about tuckered out. What do you guys like? I'm looking hard at the Johnson's stuff. Lowa boots with lug soles are fine for traction and ankle support, but suck for the noise they make as brush and stuff skitters along the outside of the sole as you hunt. I want ankle support and traction without noise.

Yup. I would cut them down on the power bandsaw at home and re-tape the outer wax paper packaging up with duct tape into various size chunks to use as either easy start tinder or larger, longer burning fuel blocks for the middle of the night refuel. It was easier to pack that way, and it reduced the amount of wood I'd have to find and cut on site.

Double up. This is the best I have too.

Its rare that this isnt good enough, and when its not it means I am in and out and changing and moving instead of just out and moving. Double up. keep it on.

Reading the rest to see if there's other good solutions/i9dea/ advice.

Yeah the bricks are from Viking.

2 fit in the stove nicely. Last 3-4 hours and 8 bricks to a box. We go through a few boxes a week as we don’t burn all night. Only works on boat based hunts and not backpacking hunts.

We have done more than a few 2-3 inch a day storms in the 8 man. A cot is definitely your friend. The rainforest sucks in Oct.



We found the only semi flat spot on a little island for camp. Have used that spot 3x now.

We are boat based so to speak, but everything flies to Cold bay to start with. Not cheap. Then it flies supercub to the boats and thats an issue.

Hence the thought of nuway. Don't need the stove to sleep with. Can easily handle that down to zero without issues. But in the tent it would be nice to run it enough to cook, clean up, change, etc... and hopefully dry things out.

Since we have and keep lots of 5 gallon propane bottles around Cold Bay thats the route I think

I am not a cot man at all. I don't like floors in tents. But this fall I tried a cot again in a Stone Glacier and dang I was either beyond worn out from 2.5 months of hunting or my body now can sleep on a cot. So cot thing is on again at least.

That pop up would be cool. Probably last a day or so out there. LOL

Yeah my buddy bought the pop up one year. We tied it down pretty good. Nice to have a place to pile gear that isn’t in the tent.

https://www.amazon.com/Haiou-Chemic..._=fplfs&psc=1&smid=AKB6XYB4P5BFQ

Something like this is what I was thinking

For sure. We probably get fired if we walked up to the super cub with one. I"ve often thought though, set em up pretty low and tied up good they would make a good semi shelter.

I use ice fishing pop-ups on hunting trips as my cook shack and food storage. The right models will even stand up to the winds you enjoy on the peninsula. I've spend a few nights in them over the years after the wind destroyed my sleeping tent, always set up a hundred yards or so from the cook shack, in case Mr. Trouble comes for a midnight snack. My favorite is a five sided model I found at Cabelas. It's the perfect size, but is almost as bulky as those canopy pop-ups. My old Eskimo ice fishing pop-up is perfect for a solitary hunt or emergency bivouac tent, and it's much smaller and lighter. It fits on the Argo like a glove.
If your old bones are starting to like cots, but you still need to go light and not bulky, take a look at the Big Grizzly cot. Put a GI pad on it, and it keeps you warm, dry, and off the rocks and roots. That company even makes a smaller version called the Voyager. I carry that one sometimes in an emergency bivouac bedroll.

The Arctic Oven we use is 12x24 with the vestibules at each end.

The Iditarod is run at crazy low Relative Humidity. Frozen wet stuff sublimates a bunch of water just due to the RH. They also use smaller tents.

I have camped frequently at temps well below zero and have burned a ton of propane doing it. It is not a great way to go IME&O.

Jeff
I have a couple "backpacking" cots for you to try... very low to the ground, but very light because of it. The better one is more than long enough for me and extra wide. The smaller one is ok for me, but barely. They weigh about the same, but the smaller one takes up less space in the plane...

I would bet I have spent at least 2,000 nights in a Bomb Shelter and probably half that in an Arctic Oven. I have tremendous respect and love for both.

Innocent question... what about coal?

IIRC we were using a three-burner Nuway. It is a 3 burner, just not positive of the brand. But we are in a 12x24...

Yeah, that's huge......nearly 3x the floor space of the AO10. It must be pretty bulky & heavy.

A little research is eye-opening...
coal is 10.5-14.7 k btus per pound. (I confused temp and mass when considering the viability)

Propane/Butane is 21.4 k btus per pound

Both require the bottle return, whereas coal just burns. The empty bottle is 13.5#. It is easy to argue the additional running around to buy propane and the temperature concerns making coal a better deal...

Flip side: Bigger bottles are more efficient... smaller, not so much. Also, coal must burn hotter. There are too many variables to begin to consider the differences.

One evening a buddy and I were in camp trying to feed our little fire to dry out when someone approached and hailed the camp. It turned out to be a lady, probably in her 50’s at the time, who was hiking to some old roadhouse or mine she was writing a book about. We offered her a cup of coffee and she sat for a little bit and visited. She asked why I was constantly fussing feeding little willow sticks into my fire and why didn’t I just burn coal?

I had never saw a lump of coal in my life at the time and she informed me that the black rocks in the creekbed 20 yards from camp were indeed coal. I gathered a pile and once they were going I was in business.

She headed out after she finished her coffee and I never saw her again, I think I still have her trekking poles she left in camp. But I burned a bunch of coal to dry out and warm up over the years.

Very interesting! I very much appreciate the insight and the story!

Thats a big AO for sure. We won't be camping at anywhere close to zero so with the input of others also I suspect the nuway is worth a try. Especially since we don't have the wood choice

Pass on low cots. Defeats part of the purpose plus we have plenty out there and the owner is already used to hauling them around grins. But I really appreciate the offer. Suspect we have the same cots you do anyway as to the low ones. But those are not what we use out there.

Coal. Have not seen much out there. May have to look closer. I know its BTU if its GOOD coal is good. There is some in town at that the military left from the war. But getting low I think and one more thing to have to collect and haul in a plane and up a river in a boat in skinny...

I will let the head trail breaker of the Iditarod know he is wrong... lol.

Just off the phone with a bit of a conversation with Nuway. Told them what I'm after and what type of tent we use, flourless. We needed it more to dry things than to heat. Where we were located IE moisture rain wind etc....

The fact its vented with a stove pipe allows the air to dry out and dry gear. Just like I figured.

Stove 4000 probably perfect. On low it should run 7 days 24 hours a day on a 5 gallon/25 pound normal propane bottle. So if we manage 2 bottles we are likely going to do just fine.

We discussed low temps and low humidity like the Iditarod vs the wet of places like Kodiak or Cold Bay etc.... yes will net same results.

While this isn't the OT basically, it confirmed what I've heard so far and I've hear far more positives than negatives. What the heck. A stove is 400is bucks and a top line gore tex rain coat is the same and the gore will leak... Worth a try. if not my tipi will be really happy next time we are in no wood area.

Strictly FYI from the conversation.

I always wanted to try either charcoal or coal in my titanium wood stove but never got around to it. I bet a couple of small bags of charcoal would work great and be enough for a week. I usually did some beach combing at Kodiak when we were tent "hunting" hoping to find coal but never did.