Figured I'd post this here, rather than up in the hunters campfire.

I'm wanting to put a wood burning stove in the house I'm buying, after it's all finalized. The house has an existing chimney.. Fireplace is small though. Are inserts worth anything, or would I be better off not using the existing chimney?

Trying to get away from heating oil.

Any stoves to recommend or stay away from?

The chimney is likely too large in dia and you'll need to use an insert to get the wood burning stove to draft properly, but you should be able to run the insert in the old chimney.

As to brands it depends what's available in your local. Shipping is a killer on heavy stuff so I'd look at what's carried locally and a good stove shop should be able to help you out sizing a stove for your house and getting a proper and safe flue installed.

Something like a Buckstove will work fine, if you don't want to spend a bunch. The nicest stoves are the Vermont Castings stoves, great designs and the cast iron will be with you always. I caution you not to buy a stove that is too large, most do. You don't live in Fairbanks. Burning a stove at half throttle makes a LOT more creosote in a flue. The Buck stove inserts work great, if you have a fireplace in good condition, that's a good option as well. You've gotta brush that flue clean every year without fail though, so plan to be able to get on the roof without breaking your neck. Also, don't listen to people who tell you not to burn softwood in a stove. The old wive's tale is it causes creosote to form faster, not true, burning green wood is what causes that. A serious wood-burner needs a woodshed.

Calvin, Jotul is your huckleberry for a stove. Don't know about inserts.

Will you be cutting your own wood? Big job... if not, it's expensive (at least around here).

Thanks. I'll be cutting my own. We have plenty of it up here.

Those are really popular in New England but since they are Scandanavian probably hard to find due to shipping costs in AK.

Our cabin/house came with two small Jotuls. One had been been badly abused or perhaps was very old. The internal castings were cracking. We replaced it with a medium-sized unit with a window in the door. That was 6-7 years ago, maybe more... anyway it basically burns from October to April nonstop. Very high-quality stoves. They really get the drafting right.

I need to start getting next winter's wood in here soon...

I installed a blaze king this last fall. Had a heatilator/Dover zero clearance fireplace prior to that.

The fireplace put out a bunch of heat, but went through wood. It was designed to meet emission standards so it burned hot all the time.

With the Blaze King I am getting 12 hour burns with spruce and can adjust the desired temperature. The wood use has gone almost in half. (2400 sqft house) The BK heats the whole house. Fan noise at first bugs ya, but fades into the background. With the catalytic converter stoves they take more attention during start up and refueling, but are great for a warm even heat output during the day. ( North Kenai)

Dan,

You have a 2 story house? Did you run the chimney through the house, or use your existing chimney?

Yes I have a two story house. The chimney is ran out the wall far enough to secure to the roof edge. Did not want to run a hole through the roof. Metal bestos through the wall and all the way up.
I will need to go with two 45's inside the house insted of a 90 to get a better draft when the door is opened to load.

Also an outside combustion air source keeps the stove from pulling air in around doors and windows.

The Dover I added an alcove for and ran the chimney outside the wall to not have to go through the roof.

hearth.com is a good place to get some great tips.

Cutting your own wood might sound like a cheap way to go, till you start doing it. Might want to look into that, though I appreciate that oil in Alaska is a lot dearer, than here. I have a friend here, who's going through 5-6 cords of wood a year, with his set up (outside one, with hot water cirulating into the house). Have another friend here, who burns the pellets and I think he spends as much on the pellets as I do on oil. It depends on the quality of the pellets, how much they cost, but can get pricey.

ghost is correct about the wood part. If you do not or cannot work your butt off it is a real pain.
On the other hand it can be threaputic and real fun... use it for a recreation and exercise program.

Splitting a couple of rounds while the coffee is brewing on a -10 moring is a great start to the day for me!

If J�tul is on your list of possibles (as good a name in basic iron stoves as you're likely to find), check out the store on Tudor (in ANC) just west of Lake Otis. (I don't remember their name, but nice people.) We opted for a Napolean, a well made recirc-type welded, lined, minimum clearance type stove from "the warm guys" (Central Plumbing and Heating) on Int Airport. We went with rather basic options and paid $1500 plus air freight.

I agree, Blaze Kings are great wood stoves.
Been running a free standing BK for years trouble free.

The newer stoves are considerbably more efficient than those of the past. I have a newer catalytic converter Blaze King. It runs 24/7 and I cut my wood consumption by about 20% compared to the prior stove that we ran for about 14 hrs/day.

The downside to the converty units is that it takes about 20 minutes to get it fired up and operating. I believe there are other units that feed additional air into the upper level. Friends with those also seem quite happy.

To my way of thinking bigger is better,,we used to have (15 yrs ago) a stove jotul like that we feed it split wood around the clock. now we have a huge Earth Stove that will take wood almost the size of a 5 gal bucket! In way-0 weather we feed it 3 times a day but most of the time only twice if that. Big logs I split in 1/2. Above all,,when the 1st time you get a puff out the stove door get on the roof and run a chimney brush through the pipes!!

Calvin-
What type of chimney is in it now? If it's a brick chimney like traditionally used in a fireplace, I'd look into sealing it and installing a stainless, insulated type (eg. Metalbestos).

I also think avoiding creosote buildup is overrated. Run an appropriately sized brush through it at the start of heating season, and you'll be fine. Fire departments sometimes have brushes that they loan free of charge as a proactive fire prevention measure. Our FD does.

You will want a wood stove large enough that it will hold a fire at least overnight or all day when you are gone. Starting with newspaper and kindling every time you need a little heat is a PITA, when you could open the draft and just add some wood.

You think creasote build-up is overrated huh??

In terms of selecting stove size. Not to diminish it as a bonafide problem.

My point (as I said above) was to get get a stove that is big enough to heat adequately for the time span desired.

If creosote builds up, and it will, just clean the stack. I'm against getting a too-small stove to address creosote.

Does that make better sense?

Seasoning your wood correctly is the best way to minimize the creosote problem. Running a brush on a regular basis is just good maintenance. Mine is due, but youngest ran over the extension ladder learning to back up.

I'm not trying to brag, but this is an areas where I have an great deal of expertise and experiance both using, and installing wood heating appliances. I've also used/install for family and friends lots of stoves and different makes and capacities.

Heres some stoves makes I recommend

Buck
Avalon
Enviro
Quad R Fire
Vermont Castings
Scan-but I dislike the non standard fire brick used by Scan.
Morso
Lopi

The most problematic and defective stoves I've replaced and or owned:

Blaze King
Jotul Black bear model
Lopi Leyden model


The Blaze Kings I've installed burned out prematurely and the old design had an catalyic system and that is pretty much obsollete. Jotuls are know to have cracking issues in the upper stove manifolds and the ones with cast iron liners are an complete waste of money, (my sis had 2 new ones as did some of her friends/complete junk). My Lopi Leyden cast iron stove has chitty Chinese castings and is a bit air starved and doesn't take standard fire bricks but one off moulded type that are not likely to be around long.

My suggestion is to get an liner kit for your chimney and get an stove or insert that is of good boiler plate steel, and you'll want one with an secondary burn and not an cataylist stove. Also make certain the stove has standard replaceable type fire brick and not propriety or custom bricks that are hard to find. And last of all get an stove that is an bit over capacity instead of too small. I burn wood as my primary heat and you'll thank yourself for getting an stove with enough capacity.

A few other thoughts.

I REALLY have seen boiler plate stoves by Lopi, Quad r Fire, Enviro, Avalon, and Buck work really well from the ones I've installed. If I were pinned down spending my own money I would get an Lopi, Quad, or Enviro. I currently have an Lopi boiler plate step top and my dad has an Enviro, both are quality stoves.

The quality of your wood and they species will also play an huge part in performance and how much creosote will accumlate. Get an thermometer and dont burn too cool and you'll be fine.

Also be very mindful of your local codes and manufactuer clearances. If you don't go with an existing chimney and liner kit the Class "A" insulated chimney is easier and what I prefer rather than block and liner chimney. Also a free standing stove will radiate more heat than an insert.

Sorry that was soooo long, but I've done so many installs and replacements that I just had to shoot off my 2 cents.

Good luck, and study up. Stick to standards, don't go to small or cheap and keep the wood seasoned.

We've got a Mors� at our place. Mostly cuz the wifey wanted it, but I'm Danish so I approved. A bit pricy, but it's got a beautiful soapstone exterior that acts like a heatsink. Smallish fuel box, but burns very slow. It cranks out a lot of heat for it's size.

Im very familiar with your Morso stove, and they are a little pricey. That is an excellent stove if you like that styling and your correct in that it puts out lots of heat despite the small capacity.

Im replacing my sisters Jotul Black Bear with an cast iron Morso. Im sick of seeing Jotul design flaws and QC issues. At least the Morso has conventional brick lining instead of that crazy internal cast jacket.

BTW I really like the look and function of your modern Morso and the Scan stoves.

Lopi or Nippa. The Scandinavians make some fine wood stoves...

+1 On the Jotul. Buy one and cry once.

Lefty C

Jotul as well +1. I don't burn wood now but all my friends do in the UP of Mich and they stick with their own kind. They all use stoves built/designed by Finns, Swedes or Vikings. And their houses are always nice and toasty as well as the sauna.

here's me and i LOVE IT! minus the show trim

http://www.harmanstoves.com/Products/TL300-Wood-Stove.aspx



oldpinecricker, any experience with this stove? I can't really say anything bad about it? I get two 7 cord tri-axle loads of oak dropped off and get @ 3 years out of it. @4.5 cord/yr 1300sq/ft ranch home with it in the basement and 250gal of back up oil lasts 2yrs. 100-125gal/yr when it gets zero/single digits.

That's a beautiful stove! What does one cost?

My (very wealthy) friend had one of those giant soapstone stoves built into his house... I'm completely blanking on what they are called.... the ones that are so efficient that a big armload of wood in the morning heats the house all day. I think it was about $25k.

Agreed that the Mors� stove is gorgeous! I have a pellet stove in my open-plan new house, to cut down my natural gas use. It's OK but of course one is beholden to the pellet manufacturers, and the pellet prices keep going up! If I end up replacing it, it will be with a good woodstove. I have a bit of birch on my property so I should be able to feed it.

Jeff O, The super-efficient (and expensive) inbuilt stoves are sometimes called a Tuliviki or a kachelofen, or more commonly a masonry stove.

Some links:
heatkit.com/html/gallery.htm
grannysstore.com/Do-It-Yourself/masonry_stoves.htm

I don't have one, but wish I did!

Stuart

BTW, if anyone else out there has a pellet stove, you will know that one of the things that has to be replaced occasionally is the ignitor, which are very expensive for what they are: a more-or-less industry standard "cartridge heater." I just got TWO for my Enviro pellet stove, for 1/2 the price of the "factory" one; I found the cartridge manufacturer's part number (not the stove mfr's one) from the actual cartridge and ordered it through a distributor.

Harman is an excellent stove that is quality made and efficient. I've installed two Harman stoves for friends and they love them despite they cost a bit more than some other makes.

My Lopi Leyden made by Travis Industries is an bad copy of an Harman top loading design. The Harman is better made than the Leyden stove I've owned.

Lopi makes an excellent plate steel stove but I think their imported Chinese cast stoves and copies of Harman are best avoided.

we put a rsf fire place in a buddys house... it heats the room it is in ...but with this http://www.icc-rsf.com/en/rsf/heat-distribution-options it throws the heat "below" the fire box...so if u - say put it in the living room the gravity option lets the heat blow below ..into the basement/downstairs neat as h*ll. let me add that it gets it "air to burn" from outside ...not pulling the air from inside the house making for "- presure"/

IIRC, ~$4k

and to use a Stickism, "if momma ain't happy, nobody's happy"

Northwoods Fireplace in Anchorage and Eagle River carries the Jotul line.

http://www.northcountrystovesinc.com/JOTUL_PRODUCTS.html


Tulikivi stoves are carried and installed by Alaska Masonry Heat and I believe Treeforms Amish furniture carries them as well.

http://alaskamasonryheat.com/

I've installed regency inserts in two houses. I've tried to sit for a while beside my dad's quadrafire. My brothers each had country stoves. And, I have a pacific energy insert in the house down south.

The only one I don't like is the pacific energy.

Inserts work great, and better with the blower. Regency had sales when I bought them where the blower was free.

If you have an existing fireplace with a large diameter chimney, you can run rigid or flexible 6" SS liner up the chimney and that will work great. If the chimney is a straight shot and ~10" ID like in my house up here, just slide the rigid down from the roof. I wrapped the liner tightly in two places with some pretty solid mineral wool insulation in order to block off the annulus. You'll probably have to do some detailing on your roof to keep the weather out. That's not particularly hard.

You couldn't pay me to put a catalytic stove in a house. What a PITA.

+1 on the liner kit for the chimney...

prior to installing an outside wood boiler system, a friend put an SS liner inside our house chimney...when we re-roofed, we tore the damn thing out and found out what poor condition the original chimney was in where we couldn't get a good look at it....junk.

Calvin, it appears the mileage do vary.


I did some internet research as to what was available locally, Lopi dealer (since shut their doors) Blaze King (Woodway ) and the Quadra fire type stove.

even though the BK is old technology with the cat converter, and the Quadra seems to be state of the art technology, I went BK as my internet research showed lots of happy users, lots of bad reviews on the Lopi

and talking to local folks they were really happy with their BK's

plus the BK dealer has been here a long time and looks apt to last even longer whereas the other two dealers were new to our area. Plus all the folks that had been burning wood for years here all raved about their BK's. One man's junk is anothers treasure I reckon.

we heat 2800 sq. ft on two levels, we have a fireplace on each level.

I chose a free standing BK princess for upstairs and a BK princess insert for the downstairs fireplace as we never burnt a fire down there.

it took a bit of getting used to the BK technology and we get a good deal of creosote buildup even though we're careful to use seasoned wood.

but we get 12 hour burns easy, once you figure out how to use the stove, you stuff it to the gills and then close everything down.

far different gig than our woodstove at the cabin.

the cat converter will eventually give up the ghost, but it seems to work pretty well for us.


we used to use 2K gallons of fuel oil per year, now down to half that, course we're also heating a garage and the MIL apt. above the garage.

we set the thermostats at 62 but count on wood heat to keep us comfortable (relative term, the boys and I like the house at 68, the wife and MIL at 72+) course the boys and I cut and haul the wood.

cutting wood gets old after awhile, but so does paying for fuel oil, so you have to pick your poison.

The chimney and fireplace at my cabin had deteriorated quite a bit. The metal liner and heatilator conduits in the fireplace were rusted and the masonry chimney liner and blockwork was crumbling in places.

I repaired the blockwork, installed a stainless steel flue liner, blocked the heatlilator vents with stonework and installed a Lopi woodburning insert. I can get an 8 to 9 hour burn with hardwood if I manage the insert correctly.

I highly recommend getting a blower. It puts out much more heat into the house.

That's very nice looking!

We put in this Quadrafire just before winter after a number of positive recommendations from the 'Fire and are very pleased. It went into a masonry fireplace so runs with a stainless steel pipe through the chimney. We did not want one that extended beyond the face of the fireplace and this one met that requirement. The surround has since been replaced with one that is a bit more decorative as they sent the wrong one originally. Our house has four heating zones and the insert heats the primary living area really well as we hoped.

I just picked up a Woodstock Soapstone stove. They get a lot of great reviews, glass window front, cat burner. Just what I was looking for and the right size. Found it on Craigs list for half the cost of a new one plus it came with the chimney stack/flashing etc.....That stainless stuff adds up quick.

A friend has a Lopi insert and loves it. Sole heat source for him so he burns a lot and its been going strong for quite a few years. They are made in Mukilteo, WA.

The EPA certifies wood burning devices. You might look at their listings to see what's efficient to narrow down to some manufacturers, then can start looking at prices. I have no need for a stove at this time, but have looked at a few. What I found was Seraph had a "pellet" type stove that burns on pretty much all "pellet" type fuel, including things like walnut shells, corn, etc. I *think* (but don't quote me), it's the most efficient wood burning device you can buy. They are made in USA which is nice too. Hope that helps.

Here's a link to the EPA certified wood burning device pages:

http://www.epa.gov/compliance/resources/publications/monitoring/caa/woodstoves/certifiedwood.pdf

Seraph's site is:
http://www.seraph-industries.com/

82% or so is about typical for most pellet stoves, although it will vary with the quality of the fuel. My Enviro is about that. (BTW, I believe that Tuliviki/masonry heaters are probably more efficient, and Viessmann has a wood-burning boiler that is better than 90%! Both are pretty pricey, though.) When Home Depot here (Bellingham, WA, where my gf is) had Western Oregon Woodworks pellets on for $3.57/bag it was a reasonably good deal as I only use the pellet stove to help to reduce my gas consumption, although I have HW baseboard heat from a Viessmann condensing boiler, so my gas bills are not all that bad. But this year the price went up to $4.97/bag, basically the same as the local stuff back home in B.C. ($4.99). If they go on sale again I'll buy a pallet but eventually I may just put in a good woodstove, which I can probably mostly feed from my property. Wood stoves also radiate heat better than most pellet stoves, and I really dislike the noise from fans.

Stuart

oober cool if you can afford one. We built one last year that incorporated a pizza oven They will save about 2 cords a year.

The only Tulikivi certified by the EPA are around 63% efficient (20% less than the Seraph), with twice the emissions as the Seraph. It's my understanding pellet stoves don't have to be certified, so manufacturers can make any claim they want. Although those that are certified, are measured against all other certified stoves in the same manner. I would take any manufacturer that doesn't choose to have their stove rated by the EPA with a grain of salt. Although Enviro (Sherwood) claims on their website an efficiency over 80% for some of their models, EPA tests show them to be between 63% - 78%, with some stove emissions similar to the Seraph, but many of the Sherwood (parent of Enviro) models have twice (or more) emissions.

Very interesting, if a bit depressing. I'm surprised by the Tuliviki-type stove's performance, though. I was given to understand that combustion was pretty clean and complete as they're always fired up at high heat. As I recall now, the Viessmann boiler is a "gasification" design, which may explain their high efficiency. Pity they don't do a regular wood stove. I would imagine that German emissions standards are very high.

I guess manufacturers can claim (or interpret) whatever specs they want if there is no effective regulation for them to have to adhere to. When I get back home I'll check the Canadian standards for such devices; they may be different than in the US. I read somewhere that Washington State has pretty stringent regs. for wood-burning appliances.

If I end up moving down here, we'll be building a new house, which will be VERY thermally efficient and require very few BTUs to heat. I'd still like to have a small wood stove, though. Can't beat that quiet, warm glow on a winter's night.

Stuart

I grew up with wood stoves and fireplaces, and couldn't agree with you more.

Temps in the 30's - having a hard time dialing the Blaze King down enough. Getting 12 hrs on partial load.

Been a pleasure not to have to stoke the fire all the time as the heatilator required.

Draw back is glass is harder to keep clean - have to run it pretty hard to have a nice viewing flame. Get it burning good and turn down the aurora effect is cool.

Ahhh another slave to the wood pile. My hunting camp is heated only by wood and we go through about 14 full cords a year. It sucks making that much wood every year. I was just up there this weekend with 2 other guys. We moved next years wood down next to the building under the wood shed to clear out the pole barn so we can put up the following years stuff up the first weekend in may. Sorry but I don't find anything about that job therapeutic accept the massive dose of alieve I need to take afterwards.