I'm headed to Prince of Wales Island next August in search of a big black bear. Curious if I should increase caliber from my trusted .30-06?

NO

No

No.

No

No.

Not unless you really need an excuse to justify buying another gun.

No.

Take what you shoot best. I choose to load premium bullets in 150-168 grain or 180s with C&Cs in the 308 or 30-06 for my rifle bear hunts in CO. Mostly I go after them in archery season. I like the Barnes or Nosler offerings, they hold together well and fully penetrate big game. I prefer holes on both sides for better blood trails. Shoot for the shoulders. Take a good skinning knife and sharpening gear.

I'm headed to Alaska for the first time in September for a 10 day black bear hunt/salmon fishing vacation. Besides choosing a SS rifle in 30-06, I'm putting most of my preparation into suitable clothing and camp equipment. Never had a bad hunt, but the marginal ones were a result of poor clothing and equipment for changing weather conditions. My only concern is finding comfortable and compact sleeping gear and fishing tackle. Good thing I have some clever hunting pards and great help from good folks on this forum.

Enjoy.

Thanks for the input. Agreed on the equipment TAZ. Might be the excuse I need to buy a new .06

If you get a new rifle, get a 45-70 if you don't already have one. I would take a 45-70 and a 480 grain FN cast bullet over a 30-06 for bear any day.

Shot placement is more important than caliber, and bears don't give a hoot about fancy cartridge names. .30-06 with 180-gr Speer Grand Slams took my first good-sized black bear here just fine. He didn't argue any.

Nothing trumps mortaring 45 caliber bullets 325 yards across a salt chuck...

1 shot with a 150 gr Rem corelock 30-06 at 60 yds. Lights out!!

Unless you have issues with your current 30-06, I can't think of a reason to buy a new one. If you want a new rifle, I'd go up in caliber to a 300 Win Mag or 338 Win Mag, especially if bear is a common game you hunt, These calibers are a good choice for bear (black or brown) and other large game including elk and deer as well�but, with the possible exception of browns, so is your 30-06.

Use you 30-06 for black bear. I like to use a 180-220 grain pill for deeper penetration and an exit hole hole.

In past years when tracking/retrieving wounded black bear shot by clients in heavy cover I carried a model 8 in 35 Remington.
I prefer diameter and weight over speed.

Shot a lot of Black bear. Guided a lot of Black Bear.

Never seen one a .30-06 wasn't near perfect for.

Well constructed bullet over 150gr and slip it in the Heart/Lungs.

Dead Bear.

I have only taken one Black Bear and it was in Canada on a Spring Hunt , shot was at around 100 yards with my 280 Ack Imp and the Speer 160 gr FB Hotcore dropped right there .

Cub?


Lots of differences between hunting POW for bears and sitting over a doughnut barrel.

I'm guessing a few posters haven't the first [bleep] clue what a SE bear hunt is like.

Best bring the 35 Remington, TFF.

Good plan.

30.06 is perfect bear medicine.

I don't think there's a need for another opinion, but No, If that caint geter done you ain't going to!

Season opens on Sept 1st .... no Bear hunting in August in these parts.

I've hunted POW many, many times. The -06 is perfect and as stated, shot placement. As you look at blackies remember, the ears get smaller as they get bigger....take a good pair of waiders & walk the rivers. Slow as you go and peak around every bend. They only show for a moment to collect a fish and then back into the bush, and it's dark in there! Watch out for the tidal changes & hard rain...they will put you on the other side of the river for hours.
Who are you staying with??? Many good familys that rent out their places...have a great trip, take lots of pictures and keep a note pad. It's a great way to remember your trip.

Tell your wife you absolutely need another rifle! Grin.

If anything does trump lobbing 45/70 bullets across a salt flat it probably would be trying to shoot some new rifle and scope that you aren't used to in a hard kicking caliber. Please refresh my memory, does Alaska have the law on bears that if you draw blood your tag is punched?

Yes, most definitely� you NEED a new rifle. Just tell your wife that an '06 will bounce off those man eaters and that you simply won't put your life at risk with anything less than a new Win M70 EW in 338WM� tell her you're just thinking about her.

Shot a nice 6 1/2 footer on Kuiu in 2006 at 135 yds with my .338 Win Mag with 225 gr Interbond bullet. Took out the on side shoulder; spun it around and knocked it down. It got up and was running on 3 legs. A (lucky) second shot hit it in the neck. Bear can take a lot of killing. You spend a lot of money and time on this hunt; take enough gun. That being said, I killed two brownies and an even bigger black bear with that gun.

My black bear gun is my brown bear gun.

.30-06 with me that day. 180 gr. Barnes TTSX. Client had just been flown out and I was cleaning up camp after a successfull trip after Dall Sheep and Black Bear. Both of those were taken with 1 shot 7x57. We might have been the most undergunned crew out in the Talkeetnas that year, but it sure did not feel like it.

That brown just went about his business, by the way.

Same combination I used for this 7 footer. Took out the off shoulder and left a fist-sized hole.

However, I would not hesitate to take the same bear, same shot with a 30-06 and good bullet.

You 30-06 will do fine

Not sure how I handled this one with a 250AI.

Stunt shooter.

Does anybody else find some of the replies here to be more than a little absurd?

First of all, there are enough pictures of prince of Wales bears that have been killed with the 223 to sink a ship.
Secondly, there are enough experiences related by guides and professional hunters on here (24 hr campfire) about clients wounding animals and missing animals with Magnum rifles that it's a freeking cliche. Phil shoemaker, a very respected guide often states that he has no problem with his clients hunting brown bears with 308 class cartridges. It seems if someone had even a passing interest in hunting but had never hunted, he could have gathered by now that toting some new, hard kicking rifle on a black bear hunt is NOT a good idea. Hunting experience not even required, just a 5th grade reading ability.
There is no bear currently alive on Prince of Wales Island that will live more than a few seconds when hit with a properly placed well constructed bullet from a 243. There are lots of bears on POW that will take a 338 bullet in the guts and never be found. And, yea, I know, everybody on here can handle the recoil from hot loaded 45/70s and 338s 'cuz "ya don' feel recoil when yer shooting at an animal..." Ya, right.

There was nothing more fun whilst living there than watching all the DSMF's arriving with 338's and 375's for a black bear hunt.

It was almost as fun as seeing some with that MONSTER 5' bear they shot.

Took a .470 and a .375 AI to stop this 9 foot POW black bear. You guys severely underestimate the dangers of hunting bears there...

It's pretty much a given when someone asks "do I need more gun than my .30-06?", that the answer is going to be a resounding 'no'. The .30-06 is probably the right choice all the way until you get to Cape Buffalo.

Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea belted magnum culpa!

Or a 250AI for that matter... I used a 338 on that hunt because I wanted to, and because I can shoot it.

Don't like it? GFY

And a big GFY to you too, if we are going to scoop to white trash talk.

Not sure if that is directed at me. I've never hunted with a belted magnum a day in my life. It's been years since I've carried anything other than a .270 or .30-06 afield. And that wouldve been a 243.

Gentlemen,

Your use of the word Magnum was not used to define the Belt that Holland & Holland developed so they could use said cartridge/cases in either a double rifle or bolt action rifle.

Magnum was used to define the velocity in which the bullet left the barrel, so anything that achieved OVER 2,500 FPS was considered a MAGNUM! Guess what? Most of the cartridges that are spoke about on the Fire would fall under the MAGNUM catagory!

So don't crap on the word MAGNUM as being bad...some folks can't handle the recoil of a 45-70!!! And it has never been called a MAGNUM!

Suggesting one should purposely take a 223 bear hunting anywhere, much less the NW where large bears are more common, is about as absurd as one can possibly get, and by far the most absurd in this thread.

You sound like one of "those" who can't shoot a rifle with any fair amount of recoil yourself, and therefore projects your own traits onto others to deal with your own feelings of inadequacy. Get help-- but first, GFY.

Frank Glaser thought the .220 swift was the tits for hunting up here. Killed lots of game including grizzlies with one. 'Course his big toe was probably more manly than half the fellas on this site. Shoot what you shoot well. I do think drawing down on a critter with Brother Bills/Daves .470 would be a real hoot though.

Moosemike
The "Mea Culpas" were in answer to Brother bill's post which I suspect was somewhat tongue in cheek, which I appreciated.
Deernut, if you had three ounces of reading comprehension, you would understand I did not recommend the 223 for bears. But, with all the bears that were killed with the 223, it supports my contention that a huge rifle is not required for black bear on POW Island.
And, since you can't understand what I plainly did say or did not say, you saying that I "sound like I can't handle recoil" is ridiculous and obviously an attempt to change the subject away from my points to a personal attack on me. What I said about recoil is from many years of watching out of state hunters show up with big guns that they can't handle, it's based on years of working the sight in days at the gun club, a few years working the gun store, and comments from guides like Phil Shoemaker, and written comments by other guides.

FWIW, I think a 30-06 is about as perfect as it gets for black bear.

As for �magnums,� for some, if you contemplate possibly shooting at longer range, it�s actually easier (for some) to ignore recoil, than it is to account for the greater wind drift and drop of slower rounds. Depends on the person. Neither is right or wrong, but most of the people who have the �my-way-or-the-highway� philosophy are the ones who hate larger cartridges. But both can work just fine depending on the person and circumstance.

As to guides scoffing at people with �magnums,� I wish my guide had scoffed at my .375 Wby and .340 Wby when I brought them the last two hunts. If so, I would have known that I was too over-gunned and could not ignore recoil when a bear or moose was in my crosshairs. I wish I had known when I was shooting that I was over-gunned and thus could not shoot effectively. If only my guide had told me that.

Nice, lots of points. What did the other side look like?

Except Frank said he thought the Swift was good for everything EXCEPT the big bears... And he had proved it to himself.

It would be interesting to know just how much game that fella piled up over the years. The stuff he saw and the miles he put on his two feet must have been amazing. Ya, the .220 isn't exactly proper brown bear medicine.

I don't know where to draw the line, but Riley was at it again today with those wicked little 80gr TTSXs...

He has now shot 4 of the Alaska Big Five in the last 14 months with them... That leaves only Dall sheep out at this point.

Thanks. He got lazy on the other side and produced three fewer points.

Wow! How old is he? Congrats to him and daddy for making that happen. Is that a .243? That's what my 10-yr-old shoots with the 80gr TTSXs (Barnes factory). They come out of his 20" bbl at just under 3,100fps. He shoots it well, but the places we hunt around here (including last weekend on youth-only day) are over-hunted. I am trying to find a good way to give him a decent chance, but maybe I'll just have to take him out west or even up to AK.

Pics?

Later, with the story... he had more than a little 24hour help...

He is 20 and managed a measly 4.0 GPA in two years of college so far while working full-time and killing lots of stuff and building a mini-boat. And his classes included Physics and upper division math classes.

He is shooting his reloads in a 25-06, Pac-Nor hunter weight barrel (very whippy) at 20" on a 700 in a faux Ti stock...

Congrats to the kid!

(Pics please)

PS: Tell him I said "top it".

Very cool Chris! Wondered how you did all day. You and Riley both had compromised drivers! How you got past the hurdles is impressive!

The .30/06 confounds counter argument, which is why it is denigrated by those that choose to ignore reality.

Col Cooper once said that a .30/06 and a .458 can do it all.
Aussie Gunsmith Don Black said the same thing relating to the .270 and .375.

There is latitude, and that gives us some leeway for bias and that too, is ok, but reality is still reality.

First ask your hunting Guide/PH what he recommends. Follow their advice

Ask the guide make sense, unless you get one like my pal had..
The guide insisted he have a rifle that shot at least a 300 grain bullet... But in camp there was a fellow who was permitted to hunt with bow!!!!

No accounting for some people. Including Guides. Check references. I know of one Guide who didn't even clean his rifle for three seasons. When it failed to fire he blamed Browning for it. Makes me wonder if he'd blame Ford if he never serviced his truck after it stopped driving.

To the OP, stick with he '06 and call it a day. You seem to be comfortable with that rifle, which really matters more than the caliber your shooting� and I'm pretty sure you won't find a bear on earth that will last long with a well placed 180g bullet through the boiler room. Go hunt with confidence� practice shooting off of sticks, prone, off your pack, kneeling, off-hand, etc� just don't practice off sand bags unless you plan on carrying them along with a shooting bench in your pack during the hunt. When you can place all of your shots onto a paper plate at 100 yds from all of those field positions, you're probably ready.

I hunted in Maine last year at an absolutely outstanding place. 3 certified guides on there every day. Their position was they would rather have someone show up with a well worn 30-30 that they shoot every year and take game, than someone with a super duper wiz bang magnum. Said a 30-30 or .308 will take any bear there.

Sure, and there is nothing wrong with that. But the Alaskan guides I know who hunt themselves, even if they don't mind clients hunting with whatever, don't hunt black bear or anything themselves with a 30-30 or .308. They use more potent rounds because they are proficient with them. Believe it or not, it's not impossible that a non-guide also could have become the same. It depends on the person. A lot of options are available depending on the person and circumstances. Not wrong to hunt with a 30-30 OR something bigger, if you have done your work and can shot with whatever you bring.

Or something smaller. I promise the result will be the same, given the same placement.

You'd think having the same conversation over and over and over and over would get boring, but.... it does.

Okay, but I wonder why I can't find a single Alaskan guide now (not 120 years ago) who uses a 30-30 or smaller when hunting on their own. If it doesn't matter, why aren't they using 30-30s (or smaller) when hunting on their own? Curious.

Couldn't say. I don't hunt with any guides, and can't say what they'd use for black bear.

I shot a 400+ lb black bear this spring with a .30-06 and a 180 grain Nosler Partition. He didn't make it a single step. Last year's bear with the same rifle and load made it 8 yards. Load a good bullet, aim true and you won't have problems.

Okay, but your response to me was to my response to the comment that "3 certified guides on there every day. Their position was they would rather have someone show up with a well worn 30-30 that they shoot every year and take game, than someone with a super duper wiz bang magnum." So, I thought guides' decision-making was at issue.

I know a guide who hunts black bear and caribou with a 6.5/06. He missed his moose this year with the 30/30 barrel of his savage 24 combo gun but saved the day by making a good shot with the 20ga slug in the bottom barrel. He uses that 30/30 combo gun for hunting spring blackies in PWS too.

Black bears are not hard to kill, I've seen them killed with a 243 by a 12 year old girl. Also saw my wife shoot a dandy a couple years ago with a 270. Black bears ain't bulletproof and don't have the will to live that whitetail deer do IME. I always have a rifle in my truck and I think the only rifle I would hesitate to run up a hillside after a blackbear with is my 17rem, 222 mag with 55gr bullets you betcha.

That has been my experience as well. Given proper shot placement on both, black bears go down easier.

+100

You just need a Sims barrel vibration dampener to complete that ensemble.

Nice moose.

Sometimes I suspect there are people that can't wait to misconstrue what someone else said so they can argue.
Some people can shoot 338s, 375s and bigger rifles as well as they can a 270 or 308. Some people cannot. I don't think those two facts are in dispute.
According to guides, some professional hunters, Army research, most people cannot tolerate more recoil than abut the 30/06 level. I have seen this confirmed in years of working the bench at sight in days at the range, working in a gun store, and at hunting camp seeing an average of at least 5 hunters a year from out of state show up to hunt.
MarineHawk did not just buy his first large rifle , shoot a half box of shells through them using a lead sled and Past Recoil Pad, and take it hunting, I don't believe. If he did, I will stand corrected. When MarineHawk got on that plane (or bus or mule, whatever) he was SURE he could shoot the rifles he brung.
For someone that currently does not own or shoot a 338 or 375 or similar rifle, to go purchase one to take on a black bear hunt in lieu of a 30/06 makes no sense at all. The 30/06 is much more than adequate for any black bear anywhere.
I don't think I have ever said that NOONE should use larger cartridges. My point has always been that a person should not go to a more powerful cartridge that he can't shoot as well as a 270, 308 class cartridge. Now if there is any faulty logic in that feel free to point it out to me, I would like to be corrected.

I agree.

Only around my area this is bit different. "...most people cannot tolerate more recoil than about the 30/06 level. I have seen this confirmed in years of working the bench at sight in days at the range, working in a gun store, and at hunting camp seeing an average of at least 5 hunters a year from out of state show up to hunt."

At both place I've lived in the past 40yrs I've had a 100yd range. For most of those yrs shooters would show up with their .30-06 bolts,pumps,and semiautos. Next would be the .308's. Starting I'd guess about 15yrs ago I started noticing more and more .270's and similar or smaller cartridges. Very rarely do I see a .30-06 or anything of more power any more. Of course I'm talking only about my range experiences. Smarter hunters or wussies? LOL

No, zero it 1/1.5" high at 100 yards with 200 gr Partitions.

I just want to know what the "minimum caliber for black bear" is???

Troublemaker!

Saw a friend kill one with a .22 LR...so ......


.22LR gets my vote

My great grandad killed one in 1919 when he was 16, used a single shot shotgun with birdshot. In later years he would go to Colorado every fall and hunt bears, borrowed a "big rifle" from the local banker, M70 in 270wcf. Don't need a whole bunch of gun for them.

Uh-huh!

Don't let this thread die!!!

Stingers no doubt?

Probably yellow jackets...

FWIW, I completely agree, and (like others) I easily could have used dozen or more different rifles than I ever have on any hunt. But you have to bring something from a large range of calibers that may work. All have some advantages and disadvantages over others. As long as you work hard to get good with whatever it is, a large range of options will work. And, it's just personal preference, but if I had a 30-30 and a 30-06 and was hunting back bear, I would choose the 30-06, just because, and even though both have probably killed over a million black bear. And (a little astray from the thread topic), I chose my .340 for the brown bear, moose, black bear, wolf, etc ... hunt I recently went on because I might, for example, get a brief chance at a wolf at 400yds or so. It's easier (for me, but not others) to make such a shot with something like a .340 or 7mm, etc... in short order because it's difficult for me to estimate the varying wind effects and bullet drop that effect certain heavy, fast bullets less than others (and also wanted something, at the same time, had power to spare on a close range brown bear encounter). Other people who are more-proficient than I am at such shots, could make it happen with little difficulty with a 30-06 or whatever. I'm not that good, so on a hunt that I can only go on every four years or so and is hard to put together, I pick what works best with my limitations and since I have worked through the recoil issues (which are greatly reduced at the range with shoulder pads, etc ..., and seriously do not enter my mind when shooting at a really prized animal in a rare opportunity). Within reason, there's not really an objectively right or wrong answer for all. It depends on each individual's wants, needs, and abilities, including the range at which he might be shooting, etc ... But on a black bear-only hunt, I can't imagine any round having any significant advantage over a 30-06 if you are shooting at the ranges most people think are reasonable for shooting at bears. I just took my 10-yr-old son with his .243 Win on a black bear hunt nearby (one day, youth-only day) and felt it would be adequate. I failed to get him a shot, but I'll keep trying. But in a couple of years, I will probably migrate him to a .308 or something like that when his arms, back, and shoulders are bigger. I don't think anyone is wrong for what they like and get competent with from a large range of calibers, and I don't get why some who prefer smaller cartridges seem to despise those who don't necessarily prefer the same some or all of the time.

Awright you old buckin bronk.

Any caliber that will make a sound somewhere between a baby fart and a clap of thunder!

Nope, go ahead and do it!!

Old? Who you been talking to?

Noah........or was it Moses?