For the record, I do not know anybody involved. What I do know is that they were lucky things turned out the way they did. I would have needed a bit more than a shooter to settle down.

pucker factor of 100! bet they are still water tight.

Trying to figure out WTF they fillmed it with. Was he holding a keyhole over the lens of the camera the whole time?

some cameras have weird choosable settings that give it that weird look.

Right now I'm fighting a damn moultrie game cam that downloads pics on the ipad, as it downloads they are normal but once saved they have that same f'd up look...

Hey, we're overweight.

No, this is the same weight we took off with last year.

ok.

Takes off.

Yep, about the same place we crashed last year

Lucky guys... didn't look good when those trees out to the side weren't getting much lower.

Everyone came out okay though. And with an open checkbook, looks like the plane could fly again. Some wing damage there but not too severe.

I witnessed a 185 crash only a couple hundred yards from me, not something I would want to experience again. You know what the pilots' first words were as he bashed open the door and climbed out of the upside down, bent-in-two former aircraft as I reached it?

"I just crashed a plane in Alaska and lived"!!

God as my witness. And I told that to the NTSB investigator too.

I'd suspect my words would be more along the lines of "F- me"

Thats what I was thinking. No climb rate at all.

I'd have aborted it a lot sooner. Then again I would not have pushed the weight issue either or at least made another loop around to get on plane asap for the long run up. What do i know though... I"m only about to start flight school in the next year... lol.

Having been flying for over 40 years and 14,000+ hours I would have also elected to abort a lot sooner as well.

You can learn how to fly in a couple of weeks --- but learning when not to fly is an ongoing lesson.

Sooo what kind of trouble is the pilot in with his insurance company?

I'd be curious as to how they got the plane down/out and back into the air (eventually)

That video perfectly illustrates how foolish it is to try to save a nickel - or a bucketful- and realizing that saving those nickels so often has a very high price. (If you know you should have an extra box of ammo, and you failed to bring one along for some reason…..yes, that box of Core-lokt ammo in the village store for the princely sum of $47.99 will seem a very good deal if you need it……or that quart of motor oil priced at $11.99…….or the extra five gallons of gas at $7.50/gallon. You gotta think ahead.


……..moose were never meant to fly either; it's still rather amazing that humans can….but they're a lot smaller.)

most times mooses have to fly in very tiny parts. LOL

…sometimes it pays to be a gentleman and let the moose have your seat too.

yep. Beats being seated and then someone piling parts and antlers and such on top of you for the muddy runway out.. LOL.

That seems like good advice for anyone planning to grab a yoke.

I'd sure think knowing when and were to be able to land and take off, and all the variables that go with it, are the key things. And obviously when the conditions either mother nature or man made IE weight, fuel, mechanical, lift etc... you must pay attention.

Headed back to ANC this fall, we hear a buzz, look up and with a ceiling of about 500 feet, here comes a plane, following the alcan.... Not my azz. No way no how. At least he could land if need be on the raod.

I"m sure if I get that far, we certainly will be slow getting places and slow leaving at times. But rather that, than crash even if we survive a crash.

One member of the family was flying a 207 back to Kotzebue a 'few' years back when a rod let go and "perforated" the side of a jug. Windshield was somewhat obscured by the oil wash that commenced. He decided to turn around and head back to the vil since he was still farther from Kotz....until he realized the Red Dog haul road was an even better option. He followed that until his oil pressure started to decline, then landed on it. Since it was a commercial flight, he had to insist that his passengers return to their seats to pray - if they wished to continue- rather than kneel as a couple of them were. Not his first rodeo; I never had any interest in driving airplanes.

Friend and I participated in a club navex. Aircraft nominated by the club was a Cessna 150. We are not overly big guys, but when we did the weight/balance for the exercise, we found we couldn't carry sufficient fuel. Used a 172 instead. Wonder how many others didn't bother to check?

I'd feel pretty comfy in the back seat with a 500 foot ceiling, if the guy in the front seat was someone I trusted. No offense to you Jeff, but you won't ever have the time/experience to fall into that category. Guys do this all day, every day, and plenty of them still get into trouble. They are available for hire, at a substantially reduced rate compared to owning/maintaining your own plane, not to mention your skillset. As a bonus, you won't be tied to a plane and wondering if something is going to chew it, flip it over, etc while you are away.

I still get the bug every so often and shop around for planes (I've had the license since 96), but it just doesn't make a whole lot of sense once you start doing the math.

I"m aware of the time thing... got that. Hopefully have 20 years to play with that up there, after having 5-7 years of it down here first.

Buying isn't a for sure yet, I konw all the problems as I've been around flying folks for a LONG time... owners, renters, etc....

I own to many boats... if that tells you something. Grins.

I can say this..... 500 foot ceiling ain't me... And likely never will be.

And your math is spot on! Still probably won't sway me now... something I wanted to do forever, and now I'd have a reason to do it... never really had any reason down here.

Obviously if we do, it will have to be done with expendable income and that may be the biggest factor. LOL.

I doubt anyone rents bush planes. LOL

The part of that I don't like is 'bumping' the bottom of that ceiling when it's right around 499 feet and the wings keep catching frost and flakes of ice Even a twin flying twice that high, in those conditions, over water really gives me the willies.

Lots of ways to get yourself killed via gravity; denial feels like a comfortable safety net………until it ain't. (What you don't know might not hurt, but it can sure get you killed real fast.)

I always planned with the boss, hey I"m flying to AK. Means I might get to the field 5 days latter than planned. I might get out 5 days later... I might miss flights, IE if I'm not back on Monday, I'll call you when I can... which might be a week later... just fyi.

Having to be in a hurry, IMHO, is what kills folks in a plane in AK. And other places.

We took off once, on floats, on a rough and ok sized lake... we had to do a couple loops to get enough of the plane up and on plane, burned who knows how much fuel, and finally get a run into the wind to get up, and get as much altitude as we could, so we could drop the nose and turn, to gain even more speed, so we could fly the 180 degree turn back out again. Glad the pilot knew what he was doing.

And on a similar instance, we had low ceilings off dirt... easy path out of mountains down a river... we were heavy, got up just enough to get over the trees, and then slid back down into the river to fly it out until we lost the low ceiling.

I put my trust in those guys. They did not let me down.

I would not have flown in either case myself.

Being in a hurry is not a good reason to move to AK or to live in AK. Tommorrow is always there. If you aren't dumb.

I watched the video a couple of times. The lake appears large enough to land after the short flight. A couple of things came to mind right away; first, was the wing slats never retracted indicating the lack of airspeed to retract them. Secondly, it would appear the plane never climbed out of ground effect. I'm thinking the PIC would have felt the lack of ability to climb and set it back on the water. All of this said, the crash was really gentle, better than some of my landings:). 500' ceiling is not a problem if the forward visibility is good and there is no rising terrain. If there is scud then with 500' you takes your chances. One of the prettiest flights I've been on was around Kodiak with a solid 5-700' overcast and crystal clear visibility for miles clear over the Shelikof to the Ak Pen. The flight was from Karluk to the small boat harbor all around the West/Northern coast. Great flight. Flaws in judgement are the most common cause of crashes and no one is exempt from a lapse in judgement from time to time.

Didn't figure I'd talk you out of it, just throwing out some thoughts.

Places I'd want to take a plane require a lot more skill than I have, and I don't have the time to practice enough to get that skill. What time I do have, I'd rather hunt than build hours.

On the other hand, you're going to die anyway...

The 500 foot ceiling can spring on you all planning and weather forecasts notwithstanding, even in the lower forty-eight. BTDT.

LOL, I hear what you are saying totally. If anything and I"m not 200% sure of myself, someone else will fly us.

I just figure being retired, what better way, than to drop into a strip or lake, super cub or the like, and just say as long as we like, a day, a week etc... ANd I"m figuring, that with more than a few years, and more years up there with the correct instructors...

But I dont' at all discount your wisdom, hence the caveat, if it ain't going right, it ain't gonna go at all

I may well learn in 2 years flying down here working on the license, that its just not in me.

Flip side is we ain't coming to visit y'all for the next 20 plus years hopefully, to sit on our azz..

Granted there is MORE than enough to do with a quad, boat, raft, and a pair of legs and a pack...

Ages-old wisdom applies:

If it flies, floats, or ........rent it.

It's not so much the cost of the plane, it's that unless you're a professional pilot or have enough free time you're not going to be putting in the necessary hours to be proficient to deal with the realities of flying in bush Alaska.

Plenty of folks out in 'bush' (rural) Alaska own planes - and fly- but never really get to where they could be considered adept at bush flying. There's nothing like flying schedules 'out there' to get one's self exposed to "conditions" that help one become more adept. Of course it helps if someone is paying you for hours rather than having to pay for them yourself too. Off airport stuff becomes a whole 'nuther deal, but it helps to understand what to expect from the air conditions.

I flew in a 206 turbo out of the middle fork of idaho to McCall. The pilot was an old guy; didn't say much. We poked our nose in several drainages trying to find a clear shot up and over the divide to McCall. He saw a small opening, went for it, and then it slammed shut after it was too late to circle back to the river. After puckering up so violently that I de-upholstered my seat, I started looking at heading/airspeed/horizon, and he firewalled the throttle, watched his horizon, and shot for the moon. Manifold pressure was way up there, and we popped up above the clouds and made our way to McCall. Not a word was spoken. I'm still not sure if I had cause for concern, but losing sight of ground in that country is a bit troubling. The plane struck me as being pretty powerful while flying at 9000+ ft.

I have been impressed with 206s a few times....

This is kind of like being a gun nut.. its not cheap, and takes a LOT of work to get to be good at it.

BTDT in other ways.

Will see how this one morphs...

rost495, your are correct in that it a lot like being a gun nut, or a long range shooter. Only it's you that dies if you screw up rather than some animal suffering from a broken leg or gut shot.

206s, and even more common these days, the slightly larger 207s are really the meat and potatoes "station wagons" of many of the smaller rural airlines. They are definitely well-proven in their utility and safety, not the most comfortable planes to fly in, but ton after ton of freight certainly doesn't care. And no pilot has given me a scare with a 206 or 207 like I've had in the piston twins or turbines a few times. (That's not saying every 207 driver I've ridden with has instilled a lot of confidence however. )

When I moved up I was hell bent on flying anytime, anywhere, and with anyone with an airplane. I got in with a bunch of different people, in a bunch of different planes, and saw a lot of cool country. I wanted to learn to fly and have my own plane so bad I could taste it. No idea how I ever dreamed I could buy and maintain an airplane on my salary, but man I knew there had to be a way.

Then I lost three good friends, all pilots with thousands of hours, to plane crashes. All in under a year. It completely put my flying fire out, no desire to be in control of any kind of flying machine now.

I look back and can't believe some of the rides that I went on with inexperienced pilots in rented planes and some of the times I raced the weather with more experienced guys in their own planes. And you can bet that when I'm paying to be flown I research the flight service and never try to push the weather. If the pilot ain't comfortable, I damn sure ain't.

great bush pilots are rare, but they're out there


I hear tell of a young one in the making that comes from a flying family.

my pard has decided to get his pilot's license, he's one of the most competent guys I know. Not sure how his wife feels about it, she lost her dad at 14 to a flying SAR op.

Wrong powder in a case you dies.. or injured. Stupid safety mistake you die or injure or kill another.

Life is full of risks.

Its how you manage the risks IMHO.

I know when to say no, even to just flying period, hard long runway to hard long daytime, good weather VFR, evne when to sya no in training.

The two things that will bite are inexperience, and complacency. You don't have to be overly bold to get bit. Just thinking you've seen the situation before when conditions aren't what you think they are will bite just as hard as the bold guy who is pushing the limits.

Sometimes if the pilot is comfortable I still ain't....

YOu only learn when to push, by many hours of flight. Manage your risks. And still IMHO, its always been more dangerous to drive to an airport than to fly. At least it sure is down here, and we still run more fatality wrecks here in tiny town USA, I deal with more dead bodies a year, than AK has fatal airplane crashes typically.

I can sure see both.
One you have to guard hard against... its hard to make myself do complete walk arounds every time I move a fire apparatus. But you have to. More so with a plane so to speak.

THe inexperience... you have to have the hours and move yourself forward, and that can still kill... the best bush pilot I know, and haven't spoken with him a many years, still has crash landed a plane. His friend was a very good pilot and still crashed, though no injuries, by an iced up carb, 2 weeks after I'd flown with both.

Been on about 9 or 10 flights up there in Beavers on floats, and we were put in tight spots. Put down a couple times too to wait out dropping ceilings. With today's GPS, one could do instruments, but if that fails one is for sure screwed.

In every instance we went into sites as a group, but came out as individuals or just partial loads of game or camp gear. Ferried over to a larger lake where stuff was unloaded, eventually loaded everything and everybody, and headed for home. Pain in the ass loading/unloading/reloading, but we're all still here.

Last out on one of those trips and had let the rifle leave on an prior run. The only time in my life I felt a little naked about being unarmed.

Amazed at the skill and knowledge it takes to safely function up there. The "old bold" saying certainly applies.

yep, weight is a big issue. have btdt, fly in, but flying out its smaller trips to bigger water, to reload everything where you have enough runway to get the thing climbing positively.

Takes a lot of work and time though.

Better safe than dead for sure.

Good friend of ours had the same experience with a stinson load a month ago. We picked em up off the home lake on arrival, and he said lots of puddle hopping to get it all to one big lake and reload and fly.

Someone was talking about 'accidents' and 'airplanes' one time and the single thing I remember most- which I've taken to heart for a lot of other circumstances- is the fact that they are virtually non-existent when it comes to flying. An accident, by definition, cannot be prevented. The greatest number of airplane 'accidents' are attributed to pilot error. In most cases the pilot made an error or errors. In the smaller percentage of cases, the causes are still almost always attributable to human error or negligence, often maintenance or inspection shortcuts.

Pick up a copy of: Alaska s Heroes: A Call to Courage (Paperback): Nancy Warren Ferrell

It's got a few good ones.

I have 11K hrs flying, 90% cropdusting with turbine AirTractors, I learned very early there is nothing like horsepower and fog will kill you, No AK time , This guy needed 10more HP to will that deal out!!! LMAO at video.....very best WinPoor
EDIT, Mr Roast, my second airplane was a Stinson StationWagon, first was an aerobatic airplane, The Stinson taught me to fly and the aerobatic airplane taught me how to get out of trouble!!!

Done, thanks.

Winpoor, thats a lot of hours!

Yep.

I will hold my comments now, just to put this thread back up, when I have a time to read it! What a landing!