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For those pondering the need for more than one tax style you might consider the fact IRS only permits one or the other as a write-off against your IRS bill...

Setting up two different taxes with expensive infrastructures and very limited income results is asinine.
I would rather pay an income tax or a sales tax, rather than watch our state leaders chip away at the PFD. First it,s 10% then 5 years down the road they will need another 10 or 15% if not more. It makes me so angry, I am not sure I can put into words. The small company I work for, if and when we are flush with cash we might buy more equipment or increase the fleet ect. But if the cash is not flowing we cut back on spending (WOW) what a concept!
Perhaps a 10% tax based on vehicle value on all non commercial vehicles entering Alaska from March 1st to Sep, 30. Makes just as much sense as handing over the PFD to children with little or no self control.
Erich
I don't have a problem with using the Dividend, a significant portion anyway. That gives everyone some skin in the game without touching the principal. At the same time, though it hurts people with lesser incomes more, it appeases those who feel that some people .... those in unorganized boroughs where incomes tend to be less and more supports are needed.... are getting and unfair share.

Dropping a big tax penalty on tourists is not going to be a winning deal. On the other hand, anyone who has experienced paying the 12% 'room tax' on top of the $160 Motel 6 rooms (summer rates....which are double the winter rates! mad ) can understand that there are truly fair ways to rape your visitors.........do it to everyone! laugh A sales tax does that. I would strongly encourage sunset provisions on any solutions that are used however. Alaska's economy is boom and bust; always has been.
It would not bother me much if tourism dropped too almost nothing as I get almost no at least direct income from terrorists. My 10% vehicle value tax idea was a joke.
It is funny that we as Alaskans can double room rates in the summer that"s directed at tourists. But tax them directly, no?
Erich
Make it a progressive tax on room rates, just make it 100% transparent... get everyone pissed off at everyone...
I imagine doubled room rates in summer help the MOA collect higher property taxes from 'hospitality establishments', and the 12% bed tax takes a tax burden off from half of the state's population. What's not to like? (Unless you live in Tok, Eek, Deering, or some other far-off place.)
Problem with taxes is the simple fact it will never be fair. Someone has to bend over...

I just hate the concept of having a chunk of change in one pocket and digging around in all the other pockets before hauling out the wad.

Reminds me of so many trying to get out of paying for their own lunch...
Sales Taxes are difficult and expensive to administer and then the debate over what items are exempt and for whom.

A state income tax based on a percentage of federal income tax really gives the tax avoiding communes a double advantage as they pay very little federal tax to start with.

The recent proposal to tax PFD dividends 35% is really hare-brained as I'd then pay the feds income tax on the full amount and then pay the state 35%.....WTF?.....why not just reduce the PFD upfront.

Our Legislators are just throwing ideas at the wall hoping one of em sticks.

This state needs to get spending under control but I see nothing on the Governor's agenda that appears to be a serious effort. Nothing!

Last year we heard that our local Forestry Office would be closed because of budget reductions. That's fine with most of us here as long as we have some fire fighting capability in summer. Not only is the office still open, but they just finished the remodeling project. Go figure!
IMHO, and I don't have a dog in the fight, but a sales tax on every last item is the most fair.

NO exemptions.

Although I'd be willing to strike it if you are over 65 forever then...

But beyond that if you can't afford it you don't buy it, clothes, food, RV, Boat, gun etc... Thats the way it was years ago... no one got any "exemptions". YOu etiher could afford it or not. And the truly needy were always taken care of by the community folks in one form or fashion, but when I give you bologna you don't ask for ribeye insted...

But personally even though its none of my business, Less spending is usually a good way to start. Lower the PDF from time to time, as needed to cover which ever years shortfalls... and then no one looses cash and it doesn't hit the economy so badly... except for state maintenance type issues..road repair and the like I'm sure would take a hit and that hits everyone eventually anyway...

Tough thing to sort out, but its time that ALL govt's started living paycheck to paycheck like the rest of the world with a budget that is LESS than they income, so you have something for a rainy day.
I say make a sales tax on everything. Cut PFDs. Reduce government.

The problem I fear we are going to get into is that we are going to give more power to the feds as we get deeper in the hole. Not good. I already see the feds stepping up LE on the water since the state has cut back. I'd much rather have the state watching me than the feds.


The advantage of a sales tax is that everyone pays regardless of residency. So out-of-state visitors, pay part of the bill. Colorado has a state sales tax and Colorado Springs has a sales tax and a Bed & Breakfast tax. The idea is for tourists who use our infrastructure when they visit, pay for part of that infrastructure.

It works here, might work in AK.

KC

The only issue with sales tax for out of staters, is that IF it gets too high it will cut back on tourism.

We used to visit folks in BC that were relatives... when the exchange rate was favorable, we'd go. When it got bad, we quit going for some time due to extra costs.

Would have to be a pretty high sales tax to get that far, but in many ways its fair, you are using the infrastrucutre, roads, first responders, water/sewer etc... etc...

I don't have hard data to back it up but my best guesstimate is that those that don't pay federal income tax use a higher proportion of local & state gov resources

I.e. Police & ambulance etc.


I don't say it lightly as I resent being an unpaid bookkeeper & tax collector for the fed gov't these many years

Not in a hurry to become one for the state & borough in addition

But non tax paying citizens & tourists pay very little for the services provided to them

My idea of the fairest way to have them contribute is sales tax

As Calvin said. Tax everything though food stamps will exempt low income from paying taxes on groceries

But at least their new cell phones, tennis shoes & fake nails will be taxed
I don't think we get enough tourists to make even a small dent in what we need to do with the budget. Tourism is a pretty good industry we have here, and killing it will but another nail in the coffin. Pretty soon it will be damn near impossible to live here unless you work for the government or some other tax payer funded position. That's not healthy when all of your biggest employers are all state or federally funded either directly or indirectly. But, they are trying their best to kill off all private industry it seems.

Originally Posted by 2legit2quit

As Calvin said. Tax everything though food stamps will exempt low income from paying taxes on groceries

But at least their new cell phones, tennis shoes & fake nails will be taxed


That's true, but given the spending habits of most folks on public assistance, they'll still pay plenty of taxes on the $15 worth of junk food and energy drinks they buy from the corner store every day. I've never seen anything like it.
Originally Posted by Calvin
Originally Posted by 2legit2quit

As Calvin said. Tax everything though food stamps will exempt low income from paying taxes on groceries

But at least their new cell phones, tennis shoes & fake nails will be taxed


That's true, but given the spending habits of most folks on public assistance, they'll still pay plenty of taxes on the $15 worth of junk food and energy drinks they buy from the corner store every day. I've never seen anything like it.


And don't forget their cigs and alcohol...
It really is amazing to witness


I see folks on public assistance way more often than I'd like to, the way they live vs. how I lived when I was poor is stunning


Course now that I'm considered rich ( by some folks metrics) I still don't have use or need for many of the goods & services that some of those folks see as essential

I look at most of them & think if you gave them a million dollars they'd be broke in 5 years
Originally Posted by 2legit2quit
It really is amazing to witness


I see folks on public assistance way more often than I'd like to, the way they live vs. how I lived when I was poor is stunning


Course now that I'm considered rich ( by some folks metrics) I still don't have use or need for many of the goods & services that some of those folks see as essential

I look at most of them & think if you gave them a million dollars they'd be broke in 5 years


Too much faith, way too much! Half that time would be all it takes. i will even bet you a hundred bucks if you go find a bum and give them a million bucks it will be gone in less than three.

Your million of course!
wink
Originally Posted by Calvin
I don't think we get enough tourists to make even a small dent in what we need to do with the budget. Tourism is a pretty good industry we have here, and killing it will but another nail in the coffin. Pretty soon it will be damn near impossible to live here unless you work for the


While I am in agreement with most of the things you've been saying on this thread, I don't think 'tourism' would be hurt much, if at all, by added sales taxes. I don't think 'low prices' have anything to do with why people visit Alaska. In fact, it would seem our prices are quite a deterrent as they are and yet, people still come.

And something you didn't allude to, but seems to be common when talking about tourism in Alaska, is the thinking of tourism in terms of 'downstater Americans'. This is erroneous in itself since a significant number of tourists seem to speak 'Asian' or other 'non-American' languages. Add to that the fact that the volume of 'hospitality services' utilized by businesses seems to be quite lucrative based on room vacancies, or lack of it, so much of the time. I don't see any greater harm in tapping that than in other methods of extortion.

All of that said, I am thinking more and more that perhaps we are trying to maintain a standard of living which we can't afford. And yet, more and more, new developments or code requirements force us to comply with a 'higher' standard of living than what some of us want. ('Twas looking at a new section of woods on the outskirts of Fairbanks recently; seemed like a decent, not too-crowded area, and then we saw the 'covenanting' arrangements they had....how many vehicles, what type of siding - or not, speed of construction, etc....okay, bank financing, union plumbers and electricians, etc...got it! mad No thanks; you can keep your uppityness. )
Income tax...at the end of the year u staple your pfd1099 to it...and ya get it all back ! We have duck and fish stamps...how's about a lobbyist stamp @10000$ a year!
Originally Posted by Sitka deer
Originally Posted by 2legit2quit
It really is amazing to witness


I see folks on public assistance way more often than I'd like to, the way they live vs. how I lived when I was poor is stunning


Course now that I'm considered rich ( by some folks metrics) I still don't have use or need for many of the goods & services that some of those folks see as essential

I look at most of them & think if you gave them a million dollars they'd be broke in 5 years


Too much faith, way too much! Half that time would be all it takes. i will even bet you a hundred bucks if you go find a bum and give them a million bucks it will be gone in less than three.

Your million of course!
wink


uh sure

but you'll need to point me in the direction of the nearest public assistance office.

I've never used their services before, but if I send out a million, well I guess there's a first time for everything eek
Its using a quest card in front of u at Safeway.... I see it every week...
Its the quest lottery... U place everything in your cart on the belt ..and scan it all ...then pay for the what didn't make the cut ..with your/someone's cash ...
Myself speaking as a tourist, I don't mind a sales tax. I think it's quite fair. No exceptions. Well, maybe seniors, on true food items. There will still be fraud in any system, and ingenious lazy/unethical people will always try to get more of their fair share since, "like you know man", they've been discriminated against. Or something.
Originally Posted by 2legit2quit
I don't have hard data to back it up but my best guesstimate is that those that don't pay federal income tax use a higher proportion of local & state gov resources

I.e. Police & ambulance etc.


I don't say it lightly as I resent being an unpaid bookkeeper & tax collector for the fed gov't these many years

Not in a hurry to become one for the state & borough in addition

But non tax paying citizens & tourists pay very little for the services provided to them

My idea of the fairest way to have them contribute is sales tax

As Calvin said. Tax everything though food stamps will exempt low income from paying taxes on groceries

But at least their new cell phones, tennis shoes & fake nails will be taxed


Being in what I"m involved in, I'd say you are likely not far off there at all. I know of ones we take in, just to clean up and get a ride to town, even used to complain so they'd get a ride to Austin, 60 miles away, so they could, I'm assuming, shop and then get a way home somehow else....

Its hard, really hard, to keep an open mind at times.

Especially when you've been duped....

I can say this though, if faking unconsciousness, raising arm high above nose and releasing arm, will tell you a lot.
Originally Posted by Klikitarik
Originally Posted by Calvin
I don't think we get enough tourists to make even a small dent in what we need to do with the budget. Tourism is a pretty good industry we have here, and killing it will but another nail in the coffin. Pretty soon it will be damn near impossible to live here unless you work for the


While I am in agreement with most of the things you've been saying on this thread, I don't think 'tourism' would be hurt much, if at all, by added sales taxes. I don't think 'low prices' have anything to do with why people visit Alaska. In fact, it would seem our prices are quite a deterrent as they are and yet, people still come.

And something you didn't allude to, but seems to be common when talking about tourism in Alaska, is the thinking of tourism in terms of 'downstater Americans'. This is erroneous in itself since a significant number of tourists seem to speak 'Asian' or other 'non-American' languages. Add to that the fact that the volume of 'hospitality services' utilized by businesses seems to be quite lucrative based on room vacancies, or lack of it, so much of the time. I don't see any greater harm in tapping that than in other methods of extortion.

All of that said, I am thinking more and more that perhaps we are trying to maintain a standard of living which we can't afford. And yet, more and more, new developments or code requirements force us to comply with a 'higher' standard of living than what some of us want. ('Twas looking at a new section of woods on the outskirts of Fairbanks recently; seemed like a decent, not too-crowded area, and then we saw the 'covenanting' arrangements they had....how many vehicles, what type of siding - or not, speed of construction, etc....okay, bank financing, union plumbers and electricians, etc...got it! mad No thanks; you can keep your uppityness. )



Code wise there are some issues that are valid IMHO. But many of them are related to insurance rates, profits I mean, and not much beyond that or the snobbery....thats arrogant robbery of what one used to be able to do....

I get very tired of my paying job, thankfully it will be over in a few years.
Originally Posted by rost495

I can say this though, if faking unconsciousness, raising arm high above nose and releasing arm, will tell you a lot.


I like how you think, an admission I should perhaps not be proud of? laugh
I'm proud of how I think. LOL.
Originally Posted by rost495

Code wise there are some issues that are valid IMHO. But many of them are related to insurance rates, profits I mean, and not much beyond that or the snobbery....thats arrogant robbery of what one used to be able to do....



I understand the reasoning behind some things from a health and safety standpoint. But inspection fees for every box, the plethora of permits required (and fees), and getting into details like requiring graded/stamped lumber (which precludes milling your own)........I say let the insurance companies deal with some of that, or the banks. If they don't like it, let them make you get it approved, not be forced to by the government. Meanwhile, I can look two houses down from the apartment I'm sitting in and see a house with a swaybacked roof which one would think would be condemned by the same government which requires a certain minimum landscaping slope on new construction, and $5 per outlet inspection fees.
$5 per outlet inspection fees!?!?! WOW!

You have to search long and hard to find wood good enough to build a house with in the interior... I can understand the gradestamp requirement.

How do you know the house down the street was not built as a pagoda?
wink
Originally Posted by Klikitarik
Originally Posted by rost495

Code wise there are some issues that are valid IMHO. But many of them are related to insurance rates, profits I mean, and not much beyond that or the snobbery....thats arrogant robbery of what one used to be able to do....



I understand the reasoning behind some things from a health and safety standpoint. But inspection fees for every box, the plethora of permits required (and fees), and getting into details like requiring graded/stamped lumber (which precludes milling your own)........I say let the insurance companies deal with some of that, or the banks. If they don't like it, let them make you get it approved, not be forced to by the government. Meanwhile, I can look two houses down from the apartment I'm sitting in and see a house with a swaybacked roof which one would think would be condemned by the same government which requires a certain minimum landscaping slope on new construction, and $5 per outlet inspection fees.


LOL, we charge 75 cents for an outlet on the permit. ZERO inspection fee unless you fail. I don't charge you a fee until you fail to correct what, if anything, I caught on the first round...

RE graded wood, thats a safety issue, vs collapse for various reasons. Strength of wood. But there is a LOT of safety built in... drives me nuts, you should see all the types and grades of woods in the book... and what spans they work for.... drive a man nuts....

IMHO I could care less what you put your house together with personally.... but I do get that I"m supposed to protect the next owner because they have no idea really and no way to know hwo the building was built....

Though after all these years if I had to choose again, I hate my job. Too much in the business of others.

OTOH the volunteer fire side of me says... I should have the right to expect that I have 20 minutes of stability in a house fire because I know it was built to code, I don't want it falling in on me.... The swaybacked roof may well be non code and or prior to folks finding out what they thought worked, back in the day, didn't so well once you got away from full dimension lumber...

So there are all kinds of issues.

But for the most part you could throw out at least 50% of code issues as they are just folks ideas of how THEY want it to be/look.

Folks that live in cities are damned anyway. Cant' stand the cities. Hate teh fact I have to drive into town of 4800 or so to work... would prefer working at home but could not pay the bills at that rate at that time but I digress.

Landscape ordinances and sign ordinances and such are just plain stupid.

Originally Posted by Sitka deer
$5 per outlet inspection fees!?!?! WOW!

You have to search long and hard to find wood good enough to build a house with in the interior... I can understand the gradestamp requirement.

How do you know the house down the street was not built as a pagoda?
wink


I really need to talk to the folks at city hall before I write them off all together, but in reading their stuff online, that's what I'm seeing. I've never built stuff as poorly as some of the junk they allow here in Fairbanks. I know code can affect resale in theory, but it sure doesn't seem to affect prices in this zip code in reality. I don't know how they do it, or if they just have stuff on the books to keep certain parties happy. As for material, spruce doesn't compete with doug fir when it comes to premium construction material. Certainly it is a lot easier to find good logs before they float a thousand miles, and I've done pretty well with that material too (as long as I can manage the permafrost problems beneath.) crazy

FWIW, I think the house down the way probably has a 'wilted-to-form' sheeted roof. I'm even thinking they might just have steamed it to shape, along with, perhaps, an inadequate ridge board - if it has a ridge board at all. (You can see the rafters through the sheeting.) I hear pumping kitchen and bathroom venting directly into the attic is a superb method of arriving at this condition, as well as simulating a leaky roof problem as the attic temps rise in the spring. wink
IF any tax is implemented it should have a sunset clause. Put a gun to my head and I'd vote for a sales tax, but I don't like either. Poor people would be allowed to write off a sales tax, which pisses me off. Like someone else said, they use more services than those of us who work. And they don't contribute.

I'd rather see the Legislature make REAL cuts and use the CBR & PF earnings to balance the books until oil recovers--which it will.
I just want to show you the governor's budget and where the money is going to go.

https://www.omb.alaska.gov/ombfiles...view_Summary_by_Category_UGF_12-9-15.pdf
Originally Posted by 14Homer
I just want to show you the governor's budget and where the money is going to go.

https://www.omb.alaska.gov/ombfiles...view_Summary_by_Category_UGF_12-9-15.pdf


Quote
The owner of www.omb.alaska.gov has configured their website improperly. To protect your information from being stolen, Firefox has not connected to this website.


crazy
Thanks for that link

Only had time to skim through it

But it appears from that budget that true cuts are indeed happening

That's a good start imo
They have been cutting, and will continue to cut. I've seen it first hand. The question is who and what administrations let it get to those levels?
Originally Posted by Calvin
They have been cutting, and will continue to cut. I've seen it first hand. The question is who and what administrations let it get to those levels?


All of the former ones...
Seasonal sales tax ...say memoral day to labor day ?...it would get snow bird money and the tourist/rv folks that clog up the road diving s l o w and those that park 1/2 in the road to snap that special pic of the same old chit ....while I risk life and limb dodgeing them with my truck & 24' river boat 😈
With all the complex rules and exemptions put in place by the very rich, taxing money when it is made (earned?) is more difficult, expensive and less productive than taxing it when it is spent.
On the other hand simply taxing it when it is spent makes more sense and involves less gov't. (Which is why the thousand of IRS employees are against it)
Everyone spends money, the rich the poor, the residents and non-residents, the bankers, realtors and doctors, and the drug dealers, gamblers and hookers. it works for gas, cigarettes, alcohol and groceries, as well as towns, cities and boroughs and no one complains that is unfair for the poor.
The poor pay less and the rich pay more and if the gov't wants more money for whatever the cause, there is no convoluted slight of hand, EVERYONE know it and everyone has skin in the game.


It would seem that sales tax is the most difficult to cheat on, which is good. The problems that it entails are what exemptions to allow and limiting the power of lesser government entities in tacking on their own %.
Besides being more difficult to cheat on, or create special loop-holes, it is the most transparent. If any agency wants more money for any purpose it is immediately apparent .
A sales tax will not affect tourism at all. Anyone that takes a cruise or comes up and spends 4 or 5 thousand dollars for a few days of fishing or 10's of thousands on a hunting trip are not going to abandon their plans because of a 7, 8 or 9% sales tax. Nobody that goes on vacation whether it be to California or Alaska base their travel plans on the local sales tax percentage. Alaska depends heavily on tourism and if the state is in the red the best solution for the states residents is to tax the tourists and transients. An income tax in a state where individual freedom and freedom from government intrusion reigns supreme is not a good option.

In the tax continuum ending the PFD should be first followed by a state sales tax. Only as a last resort should an income tax be considered.
You have that one nailed, for the most part, and Alaska is a prime example as you can't get there cheap or quickly, vacations are luxuries. You expect to spend.

Heck we have vehicles there and place to stay and its still a bit of change and time to get there.

You won't loose tourism bucks from a "normal" sales tax number.
How much of a sales tax are we talking about? When you start putting guided hunts and guided fishing trips into the equation, then you talking real numbers that could have an effect on whether or not a person books. Not to mention those people investing in their businesses now have to pay a state sales tax on top of a city sales tax on new equipment purchased? That starts to really add up.

We need to be pro growth, pro business, and pro jobs.
There ARE states with no income tax. Sales tax is easily avoided by buying on the net. Food ? Hunting, grow your own and buy from roadside farmer stands.

All taxes are evil and just another elite control method.
Originally Posted by Calvin
How much of a sales tax are we talking about? When you start putting guided hunts and guided fishing trips into the equation, then you talking real numbers that could have an effect on whether or not a person books. Not to mention those people investing in their businesses now have to pay a state sales tax on top of a city sales tax on new equipment purchased? That starts to really add up.

We need to be pro growth, pro business, and pro jobs.


25,000 moose hunt, 6% is 1500 extra dollars. If I had 25000, 1500 would not bother me.

BUT IIRC high dollar things get lower taxes don't they?

FWIW we pay state and city sales tax here every day and have figured out how to make it work. Most places do.

Not at all happy about it, but I still say I'd much rather eveyrone pay, than some select few... like how much property tax I've paid to school districts and the wife and I have never had a single child and never will.... thats unfair.
Transparency is very important... but the fact many cities/boroughs have sales taxes already in place will make it harder to sell, I suspect.
Originally Posted by 458Win
With all the complex rules and exemptions put in place by the very rich, taxing money when it is made (earned?) is more difficult, expensive and less productive than taxing it when it is spent.
On the other hand simply taxing it when it is spent makes more sense and involves less gov't. (Which is why the thousand of IRS employees are against it)
Everyone spends money, the rich the poor, the residents and non-residents, the bankers, realtors and doctors, and the drug dealers, gamblers and hookers. it works for gas, cigarettes, alcohol and groceries, as well as towns, cities and boroughs and no one complains that is unfair for the poor.
The poor pay less and the rich pay more and if the gov't wants more money for whatever the cause, there is no convoluted slight of hand, EVERYONE know it and everyone has skin in the game.




Exactly. A consumption tax or VAT works exactly this way and has several benefits. People have some choice in how much tax they choose to pay by choosing how much they choose to consume. Luxury items can be taxed at a higher rate and thus only effect those that choose to buy them. (that's a lot of choice)

Finally, if goods have a high tax on them, people tend to shop more carefully for goods that last and are of higher quality, thus cheaply manufactured junk is no longer a "bargain" as you have to pay more tax again when you replace it. This also incentivizes caring for and repairing items rather than throwing them away. It encourages manufacturers to make better products and promotes better jobs in both the manufacturing and service (repair) industries.

Thanks.
Originally Posted by rost495
Originally Posted by Calvin
How much of a sales tax are we talking about? When you start putting guided hunts and guided fishing trips into the equation, then you talking real numbers that could have an effect on whether or not a person books. Not to mention those people investing in their businesses now have to pay a state sales tax on top of a city sales tax on new equipment purchased? That starts to really add up.

We need to be pro growth, pro business, and pro jobs.


25,000 moose hunt, 6% is 1500 extra dollars. If I had 25000, 1500 would not bother me.

BUT IIRC high dollar things get lower taxes don't they?

FWIW we pay state and city sales tax here every day and have figured out how to make it work. Most places do.

Not at all happy about it, but I still say I'd much rather eveyrone pay, than some select few... like how much property tax I've paid to school districts and the wife and I have never had a single child and never will.... thats unfair.


That's a pretty big chunk of change.

I guess I am sour against taxing the tourists because I hear the same guys (in real life, not on the internet) bitching and moaning how everybody else should pick up the bill for their lifestyle. They bitch how the tourists are killing all the deer and catching all the fish. But, when the subject of taxes come up, they are all for taxing the crap out of the tourists so they don't have to pay a tax. Doesn't make any sense to me.
Sales tax is a tax on unnecessary consumption. If a guy can afford a $350 day long fishing trip plus the tip he can afford another 6 or 7% sales tax. That extra $20 doesn't even factor into the decision equation.
You have to look at it this way though.. If a guy is going to pay 2k to come up for 3 days of fishing, and is already hit with a 5% city tax, then it becomes an issue. A 5 or 6% increase will have an economic effect on the supply and demand, and will make Alaska less competitive against other destinations. If 5% wasn't a big deal, operations would have already raised prices 5%. And then you have the fish box taxes they are talking about, taxes on slip fees, taxes on fuel, taxes on flights, taxes on more flights, taxes on gear, taxes on shipping your crap up, taxes on maintenance, property taxes, self employment taxes, etc etc.. It all adds up and crushes those in business, who won't be able to raise rates to cover the extra sales taxes they have to pay, because their long time customers are already seeing a price increase.
Originally Posted by Calvin
It all adds up and crushes those in business, who won't be able to raise rates to cover the extra sales taxes they have to pay, because their long time customers are already seeing a price increase.


You don't raise rates to pay taxes ! the taxes are added to the price charged by the business.

it is no different than the tax you pay on gasoline, alcohol or groceries
I don't have a dog in this particular hunt, but I do have some ideas on taxes. Way back in 1967 when I went to work for the Arkansas Highway Department the first time, sales tax was 3% State wide. Then a few years later Hot Springs and Little Rock added another 1% to Restaurants and Hotels. Things have kept adding to nearly every town of any size has some type of sales tax added in, one thing or another. Some places the sales tax is now 14% on some things mostly Restaurants and Motels with the State getting 6% of that. I live in an are where I can go to several different towns very easy, so I choose on big ticket items very carefully. I also buy a lot on the internet. Just this week I ordered 2 boat trailer tires and wheels on the internet, that will be delivered to my door in 5 days from ordering, with a total of over $30.00 cheaper than anywhere I can get them local. This includes Walmart and Academy Sports. This is true about tractor parts and auto parts in most cases. Watching things over the years, most of that extra tax money is thrown away on stupid things and has made none of the cities any better in my opinion. Arkansas also has a State income tax for everybody except those that live in Texarkana or Fort Smith. Since they are border cities, people there are exempt. miles
Ordering online can save some people money in state taxes, especially if they live in the lower 48, but if you have to pay shipping to Alaska ( and a lot of places will not even ship to Alaska) the savings is minimal at best.
Originally Posted by Calvin
You have to look at it this way though.. If a guy is going to pay 2k to come up for 3 days of fishing, and is already hit with a 5% city tax, then it becomes an issue. A 5 or 6% increase will have an economic effect on the supply and demand, and will make Alaska less competitive against other destinations. If 5% wasn't a big deal, operations would have already raised prices 5%. And then you have the fish box taxes they are talking about, taxes on slip fees, taxes on fuel, taxes on flights, taxes on more flights, taxes on gear, taxes on shipping your crap up, taxes on maintenance, property taxes, self employment taxes, etc etc.. It all adds up and crushes those in business, who won't be able to raise rates to cover the extra sales taxes they have to pay, because their long time customers are already seeing a price increase.


a 5% city tax is HIGH to start with IMHO. Generally the state tax here is 7% appx and cities add up to 2 %.... FWIW

But again, all the things you mention of a customer, the ONLY thing he or she would be paying extra is X percent. If its another 5% on top of the city tax, its still only 5%. 25 bucks on 500 bucks if my quick math is right. Thats not even a tiny factor when I come to AK, simply because I have to figure out how to pay everything else you mention thats not all that cheap that ads up.

I hope that makes sense.

And its much better that EVERYONE that plays, pays... locals, tourists etc....

What was your option other than sales? I forget. To lazy to read backwards.

I think the petro fund should be looked at first, and the budget cut at the same time, but beyond that any tax other than sales is not a "fair' tax if thats even a good word to use about theft of my money.
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The problem I fear we are going to get into is that we are going to give more power to the feds as we get deeper in the hole. Not good. I already see the feds stepping up LE on the water since the state has cut back. I'd much rather have the state watching me than the feds.



I agree with you but the Troopers are cutting services as we type so how will they pay for the services. Pick any sector of the state economy that is paid for by the state and you will find it struggling to keep up.

Its easy to say reduce the size of government but we all like our services weather its clean water, the fire department or DOT patching the holes in our roads. The next 3-5 years are going to be tough in Alaska.

Tax of choice: Sales tax hits all of us evenly and the tourist will help out to boot. What will happen in places like Kotz which already have a hefty sales tax though?

State income tax....No thank you please.
Everyone gripes about a 6 or 7 % city sales tax but if our state gov't is to continue running at it's current rate the tax rate is going to have to be at least 15-20% and probably a lot more. And all of us are going to have to pay. Rich, poor, rural and urbanites.
I'm not in favor of any tax but if I had to choose it would be a sales tax.Leave my paycheck alone!! Hit everyone equally rich,poor, local or tourist. Make it on everything except food from the grocery store and clothing. Possibly a percentage cap per purchase.
How's about no taxes ...and just cut !!!! They are playing a shell game right now ...it will come back to haunt us ...the oil company's let go 100's ...the state ? 70 ...wtf
The fact that the gov claims there is not enough fat to be cut is a pretty good indication that they will never have enough money to suit them.
yep if you talk to folks in administration in gov't they will try and tell you they're cut to the bone already.


they're the folks that decide what needs to be cut and often it's their very own department that needs cutting, administration.
Originally Posted by atvalaska
How's about no taxes ...and just cut !!!! They are playing a shell game right now ...it will come back to haunt us ...the oil company's let go 100's ...the state ? 70 ...wtf


With that deep thought what are you willing to do with out?

Roads? Airports? Schools? Fire? Police? The Army? Air Force? How about fuel? You do know we have refineries because the state provides incentives right? Or lets get rid of the port...That will just about shut down the economy with in a week or so.

Spend a little time thinking about what life in AK would be with out the state and feds and taxes....
I'm sure there are places where the belt can still be tightened some more. But I also wonder if the state has, through lack of foresight, bitten off more than they can sustain. I simply look at things like some of the new schools they've put up. While I don't deny the need, there is surely more than one way to design a 20,000(?) sq ft building for example, and I hardly think a long straight hallway with classrooms on both sides is the smartest way in terms of buildings for coastal (windy) Alaska. It just doesn't make sense to me in terms of long term management costs. It would seem to me that heating costs could be significantly reduced by reducing or protecting some of the surface area. (Three 30,000 gallon tanks included in one known structure suggest that the architects knew their design would not heat efficiently given a single yearly fill-up.)

That's just a single example, but there are undoubtedly many which have similar problems. There doesn't seem to be adequate thought put into design in terms of managing costs for the life of various projects. And then there's the waste that goes into some projects too, as if the credibility and status of architects and engineers rides on the numbers of colors and complexity of shape that can be included .

Metaphorically, there's a big difference between mac and cheese and sirloin steak dinners, and we seem to have jumped from one to the other in many respects in terms of our capital investing. Spaghetti and meatballs would be a much more sustainable diet than punching a lifetime meal ticket of steak.

Previously funded projects are water under the bridge of course, but they saddle the state with maintenance costs that are difficult to get around without simply shutting things down. And whether a building, an airport, or a road, shutting it down until the day you can pay to keep it open is a likely death sentence for that investment.
I was on a couple of committees to design a new school here. What they actually were was trying to use "citizens" to push the bond election.

I was not invited back after the 2nd one because I kept pushing the idea that when designing, we needed to also think through maintenance, more employees etc... cost wise, and the fact that yes I agree we need to an ok school but I compared it to cars... I can get by that we don't need a Kia, but they kept designing Mercedes... while we needed, at best, an impala....

When I'm paying for you chit, it needs to be the ham sandwhich, not the ribeye!!!

Thats why I was never invited back...
AND... they wanted to spend almost a million to salvage some bricks out of our old high school to make a memorial out of ....

It served its purpose, put an old brick in the corner of the new one, cost... hmmm a few bucks maybe.. but a million for a shrine... screw that, I didn't even like going to school....
Why didn't u start right off saying " don't feed the kids".....WTF.
"""""In the last decade, Alaska State general fund spending grew from $2.1 billion in FY2004 to $4.4 billion in FY2014, a 109 percent increase. To put it in perspective, inflation increased only 30 percent during that same time, and population increased just 11 percent."""" ...simple
Did with out???? I use the road to get to work I use a 1/6 dozen street lights / guess what, when the powers out I this manage to get thru the intersection, its called wait your turn ! So much for my Load on the state funding.
Originally Posted by northwestalaska
Originally Posted by atvalaska
How's about no taxes ...and just cut !!!! They are playing a shell game right now ...it will come back to haunt us ...the oil company's let go 100's ...the state ? 70 ...wtf


With that deep thought what are you willing to do with out?

Roads? Airports? Schools? Fire? Police? The Army? Air Force? How about fuel? You do know we have refineries because the state provides incentives right? Or lets get rid of the port...That will just about shut down the economy with in a week or so.

Spend a little time thinking about what life in AK would be with out the state and feds and taxes....



DHSS
If they get to the pfd ...it will cost u 1000.00$ the next 3 or so pfds are tobe around 2g (by my banker buddy) that's a 1000$ tax on YOUR 2grand...I can spend my money better than some knot head .gov guy passing money to their buds
As with most homes in this country with financial problems, so it is with local, state and federal GOVs.....


the problem is rarely income!!!!
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Lets start the pay cuts at the top including your state representative? A little leadership would go a long way. Stick to the 90 day session, 20% pay cut for all elected officials and 25% cut for their staff and then lets look at the state workers.


What do ya think?
Originally Posted by watch4bear
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City I work for is frozen too pay wise.

But then again I could make more in the private sector but went here to be able to help the public, thought it was a noble idea.

Wish I had not but its too late. Our retirement, pay and benefits are worse than any private sector I've ever worked for.

But I believe if I could get to or wanted to, to bigger .gov, it would be the other way around.
But I digress.
I still think the pfd payout should slowly go away. But we need to make the gov earn its portion. For every dollar they cut from the budget, give them and equal amount or 1.50 from the fund. Keep paying out the fund to the public in diminishing amounts until it's phased out and end the incentive for people to move here and chit out a dozen kids. I am sorry I voted for Walker, didn't see this coming and I should have. I'm man enough to admit it, lol...
hell I"m still alive so I'm still making mistakes. LOL. Admitting is a good start, keeps you from doing that particular one again.
Originally Posted by Calvin


I guess I am sour against taxing the tourists because I hear the same guys (in real life, not on the internet) bitching and moaning how everybody else should pick up the bill for their lifestyle. They bitch how the tourists are killing all the deer and catching all the fish. But, when the subject of taxes come up, they are all for taxing the crap out of the tourists so they don't have to pay a tax. Doesn't make any sense to me.


Makes perfect sense, unless your living is derived off of tourism income. A lot of the infrastructure that was build in this state was built for the benefit of tourists (or at least with tourism in mind),even though it benefits residents as well. I'm not saying I'm for sticking it to tourists, but I do understand why people say it. It only natural that people resent the yearly influx of outsiders consuming the local resource. I'm not anti tourist by a long shot, but I do feel a bit like a nimby when the bus pulls up in my neck o the woods and a gaggle of Asians or GQ dressed L48ers pile out looking for the chitter.
Originally Posted by rost495
hell I"m still alive so I'm still making mistakes. LOL. Admitting is a good start, keeps you from doing that particular one again.


It won't be my last mistake, but the last time I make THAT one!
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I am sorry I voted for Walker, didn't see this coming and I should have. I'm man enough to admit it, lol...



Got to always keep in mind that Walker has always been a Republican. He may have formed a collation to win bur still is a died in the wool Republican. Do you think what we are seeing right now would be different if the "R" in the race had won?


Leadership begins with making hard decisions at home first. Show me some serious cuts with the LIO, reduce staff and pay in Juneau and then come tell us how the middle class needs to make sacrifices and stop posturing for the next election for god sakes. The thought that we need to expend time, money and energy on who teaches "Sex Ed" when the issue should be about the budget is just stupid. or should I say " Posturing" for your next election cycle!
A time clock at the LIO here in Fairbanks would do wounders for accountability.... Then a DNA test/maiden name/ background check on everyone of them .....They are DAMMNEAR ALL RELATED !
Walker may have been a Republican but certainly not a conservative.

I haven't heard of a recall petition but it would get signatures here.
Originally Posted by VernAK
Walker may have been a Republican but certainly not a conservative.

I haven't heard of a recall petition but it would get signatures here.



This is what I find amazing with the "Conservative Movement"

When they don't win or get what they want many move toward impeach, indict and recall when they could redouble their efforts to find a candidate that could win an election with that effort. Kinda like Trump..."Some one is cheating me"
It seems if the government jobs that have grown with the profits of the oil industry, if the oil industry has laid off 25% of their workers, the government should follow suit.

If the government were smart... they would take the earnings of the permanent fund on a rolling 5 year average and use the earnings reserves to buffer lean years and pay for government in perpetuity. But I digress, I expect they'll kick the can down the road another year or two with token cuts and wait until the various piggy banks are empty and then say oh crap what do we do?
.gov cost us 18000.00..... every man women and kid ...I'm calling bs ..
Originally Posted by VernAK
Walker may have been a Republican but certainly not a conservative.

I haven't heard of a recall petition but it would get signatures here.

I would sign one. The man dumped his conservative running mate, took on a Democrat, expanded Medicaid while ignoring the legislature, and now seems to be intent on tax and seize while refusing to really cut state government. Hell yeah, I'd sign a recall for sure. Just the fact that he doesn't chap liberals is reason enough for me to mistrust him.
Well, it appears that the Troopers must have taken a big hit budget-wise. Been trying to get hold of anyone at either the Unalakleet or Nome posts for over an hour; can't even get a good answering machine at either place. And the local police departments can't raise them either. Looks like we're free to 'operate' as we please after 5 on Fridays. laugh
Trooper finally returned my call after an hour and a half. Told him it made no sense that they should arrest and hold a 70 year-old (stone-sober) woman who was in her own home when another family member- one who didn't live there- came into the house, started a ruckous, and then pressed charges against her own mom. Told him I thought the interests of the State were compromised by holding an elder with heart problems and limited mobility in a place that is sorely lacking as a holding facility for prisoners. Pointed out that he would do that to his own mother-in-law, and his reply was a smart-assed comment about her living in New York, so no.

This whole business of saving money might get a little spendy if things go south and/or they have to upgrade facilities in order to house prisoners with health conditions and needs, especially dangerous old ladies who sometimes have challenges just getting out of bed.

Or, they might just hire people with a bit better judgment.
They will cut the troopers 1st....before they tell the uaf/uaa not to fly 1st class..... We are peasants... Now get back in line!
How ironic if Mom-in-law doesn't make her on-phone court 'appearance' because she can't get out of 'bed' this morning - after being held in jail so she can't miss it. Wouldn't surprise me in the least either.

"Loyalty-Integrity-Courage" (Good Judgement was apparently cut from the budget.)
Does anyone know this one-termer has a sister? In hospice care. Full-time nursing care? Yup, that's why he wanted to expand medicaid. He just wanted more free $hit for his sister.

I wonder if the initial hospice assessment actually states she needs 100% full-time care?
Originally Posted by atvalaska
They will cut the troopers 1st....before they tell the uaf/uaa not to fly 1st class..... We are peasants... Now get back in line!


I've never flown first class other than a free upgrade on our honeymoon to Fairbanks.

I won't pay for that stuff....

Well Look at the State of Connecticut before you jump on the Sales tax or an Income tax! About 30 years ago an Income tax was shoved down our throats, they said it was to stablize the budgeting and a whole bunch of other BS- Well nope and the rates have gone up so has the sales tax, and they get money from the casinos and a pile of lottery games and now Kieno! And the State is still running in the Red! We just spend to much money on things we don't want or need, and the State likes to spit on the people whom actually write the check for all of this and a good number vote with there feet and leave! Then there is property taxes, and property tax on cars- they make up value for cars, for example last year they said my car was worth 2500 dollars when it was worth scrap! Its all BS and You guys in Alaska would be very stupid to go along with it, because once they get an income tax the spending will go out of sight!
Originally Posted by northwestalaska
Originally Posted by atvalaska
How's about no taxes ...and just cut !!!! They are playing a shell game right now ...it will come back to haunt us ...the oil company's let go 100's ...the state ? 70 ...wtf


With that deep thought what are you willing to do with out?

Roads? Airports? Schools? Fire? Police? The Army? Air Force? How about fuel? You do know we have refineries because the state provides incentives right? Or lets get rid of the port...That will just about shut down the economy with in a week or so.

Spend a little time thinking about what life in AK would be with out the state and feds and taxes....


You would not get deep if you were touching bottom in the Marianas Trench...

Who said anything about all or nothing on everything?

Let's cut ALL wrestling coaches effective last year, to start...

We have got to fix the hole in the bucket.... Spending. …..then we go after the the money flying over your head from the slope /headed stateside....then them floating fish factory's.....
Everyone wants the other guy to pay...

We wasted our opportunities to shut down profligate spending. While true we have a bunch of cutting left to do, the Slopeworkers and the fish factories are not going to provide anything like enough to even start to dig out of the hole we are in.

My whole point in starting this was the simple fact the IRS lets you deduct either an income tax or a sales tax but not both... thanks to all for bringing so much more into the discussion!
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