For nearly 20 years I've had my .338-06 as my "Big Gun". It's taken elk and recently two moose in Newfoundland and has worked beautifully. Deer duties have been handled by a variety of cartridges, but mainly with my Montana 7mm-08.
In 2019 I was in a car accident that resulted in a concussion, torn rotator-cuff and something undetermined with my neck. Bottom line, it's really uncomfortable shooting the .338-06 anymore.
This gives me a clear reason to build / buy something new!
I have a pretty good guess what the answer to this question is, but what do you consider the lowest recoiling cartridge that is perfectly adequate for elk and moose? Put another way, what's the smallest cartridge you would happily use the rest of your life for elk and moose? May as well throw in the bullet combo, too.

Thanks!

Your choice of rifle maker. I’d go with a 30/06…. But you know in your heart that’s the correct round. 180 grain Partitions and you’re goody go.

So sorry to hear about your wreck…..glad you’re ok.

270/280 would be my choice. Bullet, well, just pick a Barnes, Nosler, Hammer, etc and have at it.

Nothing much I’d feel hamstrung with a good 280 or 270. Plus they’re pretty pleasant to us shooters.

270 or 280AI would not leave me wanting. As has been said time and time again, it is bullet placement not displacement.

For the record, I have had 2 shoulder operations, I am not fond of recoil either.

.338 Federal might be a decent downsize if you are fond of .338 bullets. Still lobbing the same bullets, but with less punishment behind the trigger.

I'm a fairly short range shooter, so I'd be quite content potting everything short of the big bears with my 300 Savage using 130 and 150 TTSX loads.

The 7mm-08 with 140gr Barnes TTSX has lower recoil than anything mentioned so far.

As for its effectiveness on big game, see the multiple pages of praise in the "7-08 in Africa" thread from a few days ago, which includes animals bigger and tougher than elk.

The 7-08 should work fine for you. Don't discount stock fit and a GOOD recoil pad to lessen felt recoil. At one time I had a post 64 M70 with an old Pachmayer recoil pad that weighed about 9 1/4 lb. I had a rifle built and fitted to me with a Decelerator pad that weighs 7lb. With the same 180gr 30-06 load the new rifle had much less felt recoil. So some work on your 338-06 may make it more comfortable to shoot.

308 or 7mm 08.

I'm thinking of running the 7x57 loaded to modern pressure levels. You know to about 7-08 level or a hair higher. A 150 gr. Partition at about 2800 would put the hurt on anything I'm liable to hunt. May go for a 160 gr. cup and core for deer sized game and switch to the 160 gr. Partition for elk. Just might have to sneak in just a little bit closer.
Paul B.

Probably this. Yep. I could as easily go with .280 or .280AI with 160 partitions or .270 Win with 150 or 160 grain partitions.

Or just use the 7mm-08 already on-hand. It is an extremely capable little killing machine.

Tom

6.5 x 55 swede, handloaded with the proper bullets.

7mm-08.

I’ve killed bulls, seen bulls killed, and read about bulls getting killed by the Mighty-08.

I’m a believer.



P

If your 7/08's recoil doesn't bother you then you have the obvious answer, no point in searching further. The 7/08 like its older sibling the 7x57 performs above its paygrade and does so with minimal fuss and muss.

drover

Smallest I'd happily use for the rest of my life for elk and moose? Well, I'd do it with a 6mm of some sort, but I'd be happier with a 6.5. So I'm going to say the 6.5 CM.

In your case, I'd take the Montana 7-08 and start filling freezers. In fact, I just killed a medium-sized AB bull moose a few weeks ago with my Montana 7-08 and 140 TTSX. Shot was broadside at ~150-175 meters, bullet entered the ribs behind the front leg, and about halfway up the chest (a high double-lung shot). The bull ran off about 70 meters and then collapsed. The blood trail was sparse at first, but quickly became a garden-hose trail. The lungs were fairly soupy, and the bullet exited with about a 1.5" wound in the offside rib cage. Last year I witnessed another bull moose drop in his tracks to a 6.5 CM and 127 LRX. Elk and deer season is now open, so the 7-08 and 140 TTSX may yet see more action this fall. My oldest has a WT license for the first time this year, so helping him fill his tag is my priority for the fall. He'll be using the 6.5 CM and 147 ELD. These days it's tough to find a reason to use more rifle than the 6.5 CM or 7-08 for the critters I chase here in AB, though I do still break out the 7 Mag/WSMs on occasion. The right bullet put in the right place trumps all else.

You are getting lots of advice to go with your 7-08. Don’t underestimate it. I started the “7-08 in Africa” thread in anticipation of a trip that was postponed due to Covid. I resurrected that thread in September to report on what actually happened. My PH was a bit concerned that I didn’t have enough gun. But I made a one shot kill on a Waterbuck which is a 550-600 pound animal. I was shooting 140 grain Accubonds. Surveying things at the skinning shed the PH said, “That’s a good bullet.”

The 7x57 is always the right answer.

I took 4 rifles to the range today, .338 Winchester, .30/06, .280 Ackley and a 7x57.
Any reader here would pick through that lot and find something for elk and moose but the discerning would pick the 7x57 because it is the most user friendly of the lot and shoots with the best of them for accuracy.

7mm08. Only shot one bull elk with it and that was with the 140gr TTSX. Would a 150gr partition work just as well? Probably. If it were me, I'd pick those 2 bullets if elk and moose were the target..

I'm wondering what the recoil difference would be? All based off the 06 case, just necked up or down... Wondering if a step down to 308w parent case would take the cake better for his application?

Thanks, guys. Keep it coming.

Link to the "7-08 in Africa" thread?
I don't see it and it didn't come up in a search.

7-08

"Link to the "7-08 in Africa" thread?"

Found it!

I'm going through the same thing in the past couple years sans the car wreck. I had significant surgery on my right shoulder about 15 years back and have become unenamoured with recoil. A torn labrum and bicep tendon will do that. Throw in a couple pins and a string holding your bicep tendon on and I discovered recoil sucks. Even my Kimber 280 AI is a bit more than I like.

Kind of by default I've been using a Kimber 308 alot over the past 4-5 years. This year I loaded 150 TTSX and took it elk hunting. The 7-08/139 LRX and the 308/150 TTSX are very similar out to 400 yards. I really wish Barnes made the 150 in an LRX.

I've been doing alot of ballistic gacking in recent weeks trying to decide what to do with my 280. I oscillate between a 7x57 and 280 Rem, then veer to the 270. When I plug all those cartridge- bullet numbers into the ballistic gacker machine, it's still pretty hard to beat the 7-08/308 shooting Barnes bullets. The 270/280 shoots a bit flatter past 300 and the 7x57 splits the difference. Whatever I do will wear a 22" barrel. Today I'm leaning 280 but have 7x57 dummy rounds loaded. They feed like grease sausages.

A 270

I think a 7mm-08 would do the job, but if you want a little more power on larger animals, I would move up to a .308 or .30-06. A medium weight (8 lb) .308 shooting a 150 grain TTSX has pretty mild recoil and it will certainly handle elk or moose.

You really think there’s a difference between a 308 and a 7mm-08?

I’d love to hear it.

Good deal! I was about to post a link.

.308-.284=.024. That’s not a lot.

I could put up a pic of the biggest bodied bull elk I’ve ever butchered if you like. He fell to a cup and core 150 from a 7-08. And I could tell you about a bunch of kids I knew in Alaska who killed bull moose every year with a 243. But I think you’re already getting the same advice I’d give you, load your 7-08 with good bullets and go kill some stuff.

I agree with everyone on the 7mm-08. If you want more out of it and can get ahold of any try the sta-ball powder. I safely pushed 160 grain grand slams over 2800 fps but settled on the more accurate loads at 2760 fps. Still mild recoil

Your 7-08 with Barnes bullets.

What does your .338-06 weigh?

Is there a convenient way to add 1/2 to 3/4 pound to it?

The area of a circle is Pi times r squared so the frontal area increases in an exponential way, not in a linear fashion. And of course, bullet expansion has to be accounted for. I think there is some difference between a .30 caliber and a 7mm, although it's not great.

I've killed elk and seen elk killed by others with both .30 and 7mm calibers and they both work. I tend to prefer slightly larger calibers when the size of the animal goes up, but please note that my first suggestion was to use the 7mm-08.

The ones I use for elk: 6.5 CM or .308.

A couple of thoughts.
338-06: A softer bullet with low to moderate powder charges would go long way toward decreasing recoil. I had loaded a few Hornady 200gr SST's with middle of the road charge of H4895. I never chrono'd the load, but they were pleasant to shoot.

As previously stated... 7-08.

Now from what I own, the smallest I would feel comfortable with would be my 6.5x55, but in all honestly would rather soften up the 338-06 and keep the bigger bullet diameter.

6.5 PRC?
I have one of these, works great. Hardly no recoil.
Cover a 5 shot group with a dime. @ 100 yards.

Gee, let's see what might affect all this stuff:

A lot of hunters believe larger diameter bullets kill big game quicker. But they generally rely on unexpanded diameter in making their "scientific" judgements, while expanded diameter actually does the "work." I have measured the expanded diameter of a bunch of recovered bullets, and the difference is considerable--and often doesn't correlate to unexpanded diameter. Unless of course we're discussing non-expanding bullets, generally called solids. Even then, the tissue damage from solids varies considerably with nose shape.

A lot of hunters believe impact velocity and bullet energy affect killing power considerably. But I have seen hundreds of big game animals taken with a wide variety of cartridges, and have seen many high-velocity, high-energy bullets hit animals and not disturb them much at all.

I do know that my wife has taken a wide variety of big game up to 800-1000 pounds, both in North America and Africa, and the "biggest" cartridge she's used is the .30-06 with 165-grain bullets. They worked fine--as have 130-150 grain bullets in the .270 and .308 Winchesters. I have had good luck with much larger cartridges--sometimes, usually when the bullet hit some part of the major bones and/or spine. But Eileen's animals have died quite handily, sometimes even when the bullet didn't hit any major bone.

If somebody really believes bigger is better for general hunting of non-dangerous big game, why then they should use something larger than "average"--but only if they can shoot it well. Have seen far more hunters who can't than those who can.

Yeah, the 7mm08 is better.. There, I said it..

I'd just use your 7-08.

As far as bullets are concerned, I don't know what you have or can get your hands on these days, but TTSX's, Interlocks, Partitions and quite a few others will work too.

If you're a handloader just load the big gun on down. Don't have to run magnum velocities just because of the headstamp you know. That's kind of the point of handloading, tailoring your loads to your need. You need light loads, so load them light.

Or buy another gun and a new cartridge and go looking for reloading supplies in the worst time to do so in the history of the world.

I must have misunderstood. When you said if you want a little more power use a 308 I thought you meant the 308 had enough more power to be significant, otherwise why suggest it.

A suppressed .308 Win. bolt action - preferably with a 20" barrel would be my choice - if legally usable.

I find that to be my answer to almost any question of this kind - so proceed with caution... LOL

Sorry to hear of your accident and hope for mending.

Yup ..... I could very easily hunt the rest of my days with nothing but a 7x57.

Either way, my guns have been getting smaller over the last couple yrs. My "big" one now is a 300H&H.

Lots of good info and I appreciate it.
A couple points:
A can is out. There's no way I could see creeping through the thick stuff still hunting with one of those hanging off the end.
I've pretty much determined a well balanced 7lb rifle is what I like best. So, adding weight to the .338-06 is out.
I have a "deer" load for the
338-06 that's more like a .338 Federal and it still kicks too much.
Through experimenting, I've determined a 160/ 165'ish bullet going between 2650- 2800fps is max , but comfortable enough for me to want to shoot it.
I reload and have a lifetime supply of 7mm and .308 bullets and 7mm-08/ .308 /.30-06 brass.

Before making the post, my guess was that the 7mm-08, 7x57 and. 308 would be the winners. Honorable mention to the 6.5's and .270, though I have no components for those.

I left all this out of my first post because I didn't want to influence opinions.

Put a BRAKE on it, your shoulder will love you.
Put ear plugs in first so you don't hear the report or the whiners whining !!!!!!!!!

To expand on what CRS said: use H4895 and a light but soft tipped bullet like the 210 gr partition to make a reduced load for your favorite 338-06.

https://hodgdon.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/h4895-reduced-rifle-loads.pdf

The trajectory may not be as flat but it would allow you to use one of your favorite rifles.

6.5 CM with a 125 Partition or 130 NAB.

But your 7-08 is all you need loaded with a 120-140 bullet.

Here's a funny little story. My son and I went back to Newfoundland in September. The plan was he would use my .338-06 for moose and I took my 7mm-08 hoping to pop a bear. The subject of moose cartridges came up with a bunch of the guides. Most of them use either a .303 or a .308. They consider the .308 Win with cheap 150's to be the best you can get for moose, an absolute dragon slayer, but almost fell over laughing at my 7mm-08 because it's a woman's gun!

There are no flies on a 7mm-08 with a 120gr TTSX for a do it all rifle.
I have shot a 300 Ultra since it was released for most all my hunting, but in the next year or so will be building a 7mm-08 semi LW rifle to finish out my hunting career.

Sounds like a lot of us are starting to build or buy a lighter rifle with lighter recoil for our general hunting purposes.
They still do the job splendidly but much easier on us old guys. I am in the same boat.
Just bought a 7x57 Mountain Rifle for this same purpose.

If you’re comfortable shooting your 7-08, you’re already there. Use good bullets for the big stuff.

Since physical issues seldom get better, but rather worse with time, be prepared to adjust later via a brake or other recoil- reducing stratagem.

Good luck.

What would be the recoil difference in a 308, 30/06, 338-06 using 160gr bullets out of 7lb rifles running 2650-2800...?

I am thinking the 308 would win with the smaller powder charge.

Might think about a 338 Federal or a 358 Winchester made up on an AR 10 style auto-loader.

They are not light as a rule, but getting one field ready at about 10 pound's is easy and a bit over 9 pounds is not too big a trick to preform. I have a 358 myself, and with it's muzzle break, the kick is mellow. The 338 Federal is a good choice if you are already set up for the 338-06 because you probably already have the bullets. My friend Randy has had his rotator cuff re-built and now can't use his 338-06 which I made for him several years ago. But he fired my AR in 358 about 4 weeks ago when he was here hunting, and loved it. So he's putting one together right now for himself. With the telescoping stock he can get the butt into the shoulder and towards the chest a bit, so the butt is into the chest a bit which also makes the kick very easy to deal with. They are not petty, but the AR type tele- stocks are VCERY versatile, and you can instantly adjust the LOP depending on the position you want to shoot from.
Both the 338 Fed and the 358 Win can be used with shorter barrels without much drop in velocity. Because of that, you can drop weight too. Used with coated bolts and carriers and mated to a stainless barrel, you'll find them to be very good for wet conditions, rugged and easy to use.
I am a traditionalist to my core, but I must admit the AR style rifles are worth of a look. They are super easy to use, can be built in calibers on the 15 lower from 17 Remington to 50 Beowulf and on the 10 lower from 243 to 358. They can be made very accurate, reliable and easy to scope, and can be made super friendly to left hand shooters. They just "look military" which is a turn-off to many, but if you can get past the look of an AR you'll find it has an awful lot of merit. As for the 338 Fed and the 358 Winchester cartridges, but are very useful and have far more merit then their popularity has reflected. For hunting big game in the real world (instead of playing the what-if game in the mind) both do very good work at most real-world ranges game is shot.
Both are quite good for the jobs they are asked to do.

As a side note:
My sister lives in Alaska and since 1992 she has been killing moose with a Winchester M88 lever action with a peep sight I got for her before she left to move up there. It's a standard 308. Loaded with 180 grain Partitions, she's killed every moose she's shot, and all with one round each.
So if you wanted to use a standard AR10 type rifle in the regular caliber, the 308 will do fine too.

It's far more about the man doing the shooting then what he shoots. In my opinion the shell and the gun are less important then the skill of the hunter and the bullets he using.
But the point is that an AR type with a good muzzle break gives you good levels of power and less kick then any bolt action, lever action, pump action, or single shot at any given weight, gun to gun.

I wouldn't have thought I'd like my light AR10 as much as I do, and it's partly due to the low level of perceived recoil.

Sorry if I missed it, but have you tried a 160 or 180 mono in your 338-06? A lighter bullet and a heavier scope/stock might make it work for you? If not, another vote for 270 or 7/08.

Or if an AR10 style isn't your cup of tea, maybe a BAR or Benelli R1 in 30-06/etc?

Those that don't know need to ask more questions.
Those that do know tend to be more quiet about it.
Those in between are still scratching their heads.

And it's before expansion.........

I have 185 TTSX's loaded up, but they are at 2900fps. I have loaded 180 AB's down to around 2600fps. The recoil was fine, but I wasn't happy with on game performance on a whitetail buck.

What matters most is the reports on bullet performance on various game as generalizations falter.

I have shot lengthwise on wild horse culls using a 275 Rigby and 140 X's yet have recovered 160grain Failsafe's from the same culls. I have had 5 feet plus penetration from 400 grain .458 bullets and barely a foot with 500 grainers in the same caliber. Generalizations often state more bullet weight for bigger animals but maybe that just isn't so, unless the sentence is short stated and should have included using the same manufacturer and construction with that additional weight?

There is a lot of knowledge on this site and a great many who have taken a lot of game. Collectively, there is much to sift through, but a carcass on the ground is always the best of examples.

"Might think about a 338 Federal or a 358 Winchester made up on an AR 10 style auto-loader."

Hadn't given that a thought. It wouldn't be legal to hunt with in PA. I'm not sure about elsewhere like Canada.

When I had a bone in my right wrist replaced,(2007) I had to do something similar. I bought a little Ruger 77 All Weather in 338 Federal and had a brake put on it. Kitten. I could use TAC and get the 160 TTSX a tad over 3000fps. I shot it alot, but never hunted with it, but it helped in the interim. Now I can use whatever.

BUT...what you really need to do is find a new rifle, also in 7mm08 to pair up with your Montana! That way, if one breaks right before or during a hunt, your still good to go! Maybe one a tad heavier than your Montana for shooting out on the wind ravaged "short grass prairies". OR you could really mess with peoples heads and get a Mod 7400 in .270-280-308 semi! ha Good luck to you Pard!

I re-barreled a Kimber MT 84M to 338 Federal. With 210 Partitions, it recoils about like a 7.5 lb 30-06. Recoil is a bit lighter with 160 Barnes. It is alot of "power" in a small package - but its not a big step down in recoil from a 30-06 or downlaoeded 338-06, mainly because it weighs slightly less than 7 lbs - even with a 23" Lilja 84m Mod barrel contour. I'm likely to also re-barrel my 308 with a 23" Lilja 84m Mod contour because I really like the balance it gives the Kimber 84m rifle.

Skip to 4:00

140 gr Fusion

I do a lot of hunting with a Savage 99 in 284 shooting Speer 145 gr SPBT bullets. It is recoil friendly and absolutely deadly on deer and bear. I do have heavier rifles but for comfortable shooting, this is my personal favorite.

a 308 with 110 or 130 ttsx, or a 7-08 with 120 ttsx would be about right.

Let me guess. He used a 7mm08?

.270 WCF/150 gr. Partition or GrandSlam (140 gr. TSX).

... w/ an eye on the 6.5x55mm/140-156 gr.




GR

The 7mm08 is a lady's round.

Yeah, that's what I've been hearing..

I just don't understand the "need" for something bigger than your 7-08 given your physical issues, and in fact could see stepping down in cartridge/caliber. Were it me, I'd build a midweight 7-08 as a companion to your lightweight 7-08.

I also can't understand all the recommendations for the 308 (my favorite cartridge) given you have its equal in the 7-08.

For me, a muzzle brake would be a dead last last resort if something like the 243 or 6.5 CM still bother you.

Your 7-08 sounds like the perfect fit. If you want something new and perform about the same then a 6.5 CM would be worth a look.

Leaning towards what Bill said above and adding a little weight to my current 7mm-08, or building a slightly heavier second one.

It depends on what you consider significant. A .308 will give roughly the same velocity with a 165 grain bullet as a 7mm-08 will with a 140 grain, resulting in more kinetic energy for the .308 bullet. Comparably constructed .308 bullets will have a larger frontal area, both expanded and unexpanded. These are advantages when used on larger game. In this case, the advantage is fairly small, and is easily overshadowed by other variables, but it is still an advantage.

I think when the difference between bullet diameters is relatively small, as in .284 and .308 bullets, differences in performance on large game are not always easy to see because things like shot placement and bullet construction tend to affect performance more than the effects of bullet diameter. But as you continue to move up in caliber and the difference between bullet diameters is larger, the difference in performance on large game become more obvious.

Let's take a more extreme example. When you get to .338 caliber vs .264, I think most people would agree that a .338 bullet of comparable construction, velocity and sectional density has a significant advantage over a .264 bullet on game over 1000 lbs. At that point, the small advantages that accrue with each increase in caliber: .264 to .284, .284 to .308 and .308 to .338, add together to result in a significant increase in performance. That's my take on the effects of increasing bullet diameter. Of course, if you can't shoot the larger cartridge accurately, these advantages don't matter.

In a number of the calibers mentioned above, you have the option of using reduced recoil ammo if you start experiencing discomfort with the full power loads. May cause you to have rethink the maximum range at which you are willing to shoot, but that's why it's called hunting, right?

The guides in Newfoundland might make more fun of you, though.

a 30-06 or 300 win browning bar with muzzle brake/suppressor

Along with less recoil a lighter rifle to carry also becomes more enjoyable. Finding the fine line between the proper cartridge /bullet and rifle weight becomes a large part of the recoil equation and the handling dynamics of the rifle.

What were you not happy about if I may ask?

I have been extremely happy with the 210 NPt, 200gr ballistic silvertip, and now discontinued 200gr Hornady Interlock out of my 338-06's on deer. I am thinking a 200gr SST would work also. Have shot a bunch, just not into a deer yet. The 210gr TSX's seem a little too hard for deer, they do not wreck much meat. Your 338-06 is a nice rifle, just hate to see you giving it up.

I consider the 7-08 a 270 short. Being a huge 270 fan I could easily use a 7-08 and be perfectly happy. I am too invested in 270's to start over now.

Just have the barrel threaded and screw on an Area 419 Hellfire muzzle brake, I just did and it's fantastic. It does me that you will need to wear hearing protection when hunting but that's not the worst idea ever.
https://www.area419.com/product/hellfire_st/

That seems optimistic. The 7-08 will drive a 140 to ~2900-2950 fps, which is about what the .308 will do with a 150.


What advantage are you referring to?

A muzzle break doesn't do much on a low intensity cartridge anyways.

Why not shoot a buddy’s 270 & 280 - if you can find same. You can shoot light mono bullets in it as an option.

But I don’t know your hunting plans or hunting area. Something might fit better for you than the 270 or 280. But that would be what I’d look at.

Another thing you could do is install a suppressor which would cut down on the recoil without the added sound.

The lightish monos in the 270/280 is one direction I'm looking at. Recoil is similar to 308/150 but does shoot flatter at 300+ yards. A modern loaded 7x57 is a good middle ground with a cool cartridge.

Another nod to the 338 Federal. It's effectiveness belies the physical size of the cartridge, with ballistics similar to the 308 when using lighter bullets(Barnes TTSX in 160 or 185gn). Nice big holes make things leak more better................

.308 and get hunting.

If I had a 6.5 Creed and some 120-140gr monos I wouldn’t feel handicapped for moose. Considering the realistic ranges that most game is shot there aren’t too many centerfire cartridges, considering modern bullet construction, that couldn’t do the job effectively if you’re able to exhibit self-control and take only high percentage shots at reasonable distances and reasonable angles.

I don't either. You know what comes to mind when I see this thread?



My Tikka 7mm08. Weighs in at 7 pounds scoped. Shoots great and kills elk easy enough. Guys still suggesting 338 this and that. The guy already has a 338-06 and he's wanting something different because he needs something with less recoil. Also, any cartridge based off the parent case (30-06), is going to recoil about the same as what he already has (338-06). Drop it down a notch to a 308w parent case: 6.5cm, 7mm08 etc. Recoil will be a lot less and even in a 7 pound rifle, like the one pictured above. Even the 7x57 would be an excellent choice. They are pretty mild mannered and those 7mm bullets dig deep..

"A .308 will give roughly the same velocity with a 165 grain bullet as a 7mm-08 will with a 140 grain, resulting in more kinetic energy for the .308 bullet."

I haven't done nearly the work with .308 as I have with a 7mm-08, but I easily get a 145 speer to 2800fps+ from a 22 inch 7mm-08. I've never got close to that with a 165 out of a .308.

"What were you not happy about if I may ask?

I have been extremely happy with the 210 NPt, 200gr ballistic silvertip, and now discontinued 200gr Hornady Interlock out of my 338-06's on deer. I am thinking a 200gr SST would work also. Have shot a bunch, just not into a deer yet. The 210gr TSX's seem a little too hard for deer, they do not wreck much meat. Your 338-06 is a nice rifle, just hate to see you giving it up."

I was very happy with how the 185TTSX worked, but it hurt to shoot it. The 180AB didn't penetrate to my liking. Awesome bullet though.
I wouldn't be giving up the .338-06. It would go to my boy. He's tougher than I am.

Interesting info on the 180 AB. Thanks for sharing.

I know you will figure it out this whole recoil thing.

I'm referring to the ability to quickly and efficiently put down the animal, even under less than ideal conditions, like having to take a quartering shot.

Have seen the .308 "quickly and efficiently put down" big game animals weighing up to 600-700 pounds with quartering shots, both in North America and Africa.

Hodgdon says about 2975 fps max for both the 7-08/140 and .308/150. From personal experience, I've found 2950 fps to be about the upper end using both combinations, both with 22" barrels.

With the right bullet, I've seen 6.5s and 7s put down plenty of 500-1000+ lbs animals very quickly, even on difficult shot angles. I've also seen .308s and .338s do it. I can't say that I've seen a definite terminal performance advantage either way, in terms of actual field results. Maybe there is a slight advantage, but it'd take a WHOLE lot of dead animals for me to be able to say definitively.

I haven't really pushed either the 7mm08/140 or .308/150 loads so I don't have personal experience trying to get max velocity out of those. My loads have been a bit above 2900 in 22 inch barrels. The .308/165 loads I've done were for a Savage 99 so I didn't push those at all. I don't know if the Nosler data is broadly applicable or a slight anomaly but that's what they published.

At any rate, I think there is really no way to scientifically prove or disprove these ideas about caliber and bullet weight. It would take a very large amount of controlled data to really be sure and hunting tends to be pretty uncontrolled. The best that can be done is to look at a volume of documented observations like Mule Deer has compiled. I'm actually not a large caliber advocate. Most of my recent hunting has been with a 6.5 Creedmoor for medium game and a .30-06 for elk and both have worked very well.

You do realize the 338 Federal is a necked up 308, don’t you? Mine shoots 185 TTSX’s a little softer than my 7-08 AI with 162 gn A-Max’s. Same build specs, same stocks. Granted, it’s a lot slower than the 7-08 (2650fps compared to about 2900) but seems to result in a lot more DRT’s. The 7-08AI is no slouch, but I think the 338 Fed is more better for sub 200 yard work.

Assuming no bears, I would use a 7mm08 AI (1:8" twist) with the 155gr Federal Terminal Ascent. The AI is simply to help with reloadability - not a velocity play. A 6.5CM would also be an option, but I'd probably end up shooting the 160gr Weldcore and it would probably recoil as much or more.

With bears, I'd feel like something like what you've already got is about the minimum. Unless you're also willing to carry a powerful revolver in which case the 7mm-08AI would again be my choice.

Me?

I do, and he's already got a fn 338-06. He can download it to 338 federal velocities, if he wants. And I believe he said he has done that and he said it still kicks too much.


I don't think he wants a 338 Federal. Anymore stupid fu cking questions?

Pass the 458 win mag and 500gr soft points. Whatever is ailing your neck will be fixed once you torch a round off..

6.5 CM or Sweed .
The sweed has been killing moose for a century and some Americans still can not accept this.

Lots of good suggestions here. My choices would be as follows:

6.5x55 SE
.270
.280
.308

Bullet? Nosler Partition.

You may be on to something!

Absolutely!
I could build a 338-06 that would have tolerable recoil, but wouldn't like carrying it on hunts.
My favorite rifle weight is right around 7lbs +/-, with scope and mnts.

Panties in a wad? If the "downloaded" 338-06 still has too much recoil, then a 7-08 will too, at least in my experience. A "downloaded" 338-06 still isn't a 338 Federal, just as a 30.06 isn't a downloaded 300 WinMag. So, it wasn't a "stupid fu cking question", just a stupid fu cking answer.

Lot of advice here maybe some good and more enough bad. Maybe it's time for you to sit on your butt watching hunting videos and doing what your wife tells you too. After you get sick and tired of that sh*t. Go buy a magnum PAST recoil shield put it on pick up the 338-06 and go kill stuff. Might cost you $50. Send me your address for my consulting bill I don't all ways give away common sense. Mb

Maybe it should be renamed the .458 Chiropractor, lol.

Apparently President of the He Man Womens Hater Club just showed up.

Guy shows up here with a legit question looking for a bit of dialogue and you give him this macho bullshit? How many more dead elk do you need to see killed with non-magnum cartridges to at least accept that fact? I'm more than a bit empathetic with his issue, plus I know him. I had my shoulder rebuilt 15 years ago and have the same recoil sensitivities. Apparently I should just he-man up and hope it all stays together. Going through life with 1 good shoulder doesnt sound all that appealing.

Wrong and none of your posts have been constructive for Teeder either. NOT ONE POSTER but me coughed up an idea on how to reduce his felt recoil and discomfort. Magnum Past recoil shield is a start, Buffalo Arms Co out of Ponderray Idaho makes one even more effective called their prone model it's worth every dime it costs 50-60 bucks. Why is it I'm the only one who could come up with inexpensive but totally effective route to less recoil. Coupled with a 7-08, 6.5 C or 6.5x55 other than the report prolly wouldn't feel it at all. B Winters you missed a good chance to STFU and furthermore added nothing to help Teeder out. Magnum Bob

Let me reference the original post for and your "solution":

"For nearly 20 years I've had my .338-06 as my "Big Gun". It's taken elk and recently two moose in Newfoundland and has worked beautifully. Deer duties have been handled by a variety of cartridges, but mainly with my Montana 7mm-08.
In 2019 I was in a car accident that resulted in a concussion, torn rotator-cuff and something undetermined with my neck. Bottom line, it's really uncomfortable shooting the .338-06 anymore.
This gives me a clear reason to build / buy something new! grin
I have a pretty good guess what the answer to this question is, but what do you consider the lowest recoiling cartridge that is perfectly adequate for elk and moose? Put another way, what's the smallest cartridge you would happily use the rest of your life for elk and moose? May as well throw in the bullet combo, too."

See anything in there asking for recoil reduction of his existing rifles? But it did give you an opportunity to turn this into a biggest wanger contest and a snarky reply. Likely you should take your own advice. A bit of reading comprehension wouldn't hurt either.

I've used the Magnum PAST Shield on some hard kickers years ago. It helped me not develop a flinch. This was also before Limbsaver Recoil pads. I did not, however, have it on when I shot a Grizzly Ammo +P 460gr 45-70 round in a Marlin cowboy ( 26") This 5 yrs after my neck fusion, but the "instant" I touched it off, I "felt" I had tore all the gristle loose in my neck! ha One and done, I'm telling you! I had a really lwt 416 Taylor made up once, 20" barrel with a brake...400gr handload, OMG Even with that PAST shield it was brutal but the ear splitting muzzle blast was crazy! ha We live and learn..

I felt Teeder" just needs" a spare rifle in 7mm/08 , a bit heavier than his Montana...but the PAST is a good one...just saying

I had a .300 Win mag and a Weatherby Mark V in .300 Roy. Recoil started giving me neck pain and a headache. Now my big gun is a Ruger Hawkeye stainless
30-06. Ought to cover any bases that need covered in my world.

Ron

"what do you consider the lowest recoiling cartridge that is perfectly adequate for elk and moose"

This is what I'm looking for from people that have done it.

Thanks again to all.

7-08 -7x57 - 6.5x55 will kill anything in North America and most game in Africa . How many Elephants did Bell kill with the 7x57 ? A bunch . I own one of each and would not feel handicapped with any of the three . Hit where you should with a bullet built for the game your after and all will be good. My .325 WSM with 150-200 grain bullets is no slouch either and is not too hard on my arthritic shoulders . If all my shots were of moderate range (200 Yards) I would be perfectly happy with a .35 Remington or the .358 Winchester either one and recoil is moderate at most.

A lot of this discussion has centered, not to much surprise, on recoil. But that is not the major problem I think. I have had one shoulder replacement (right) and am going to have to have the other one done at some point. Originally my doctor thought I might stave off major surgery through physical therapy, which was the path I took. However the problem can easily become how high you can lift stuff. Like lifting a rifle to your shoulder, as shoulder height is milestone after surgery. My problem turned out not to be recoil. I already had a Ruger 77 in 6.5x55 I've used since 1993. Also lots of 308 use as well, so recoil wasn't the problem. What was the problem for me was getting the rifle up and after the shot working the bolt with the rifle up to the shoulder. The slap upward and the stroke to the rear of the bolt was pretty painful. So the rifle had to be lowered, the bolt worked, and lifted to shooting position again. Kind of like shooting a single shot. It worked, but was contrary to a lot of muscle memory. So I began thinking about what beside a bolt action might work.

Now, not so long ago I'd have never thought I'd go this route. Many years ago my brothers and I got Dad a Remington 742 in 30-06, because that was what he wanted. Well it was a PITA. Shot OK, but was the most picky thing I ever shot as far as cleanliness was concerned. You had to get it squeaky clean to metal, then you might get a dozen shots before you needed to clean it again, but you might only get 2-3, you never knew. But the recoil was OK on my shoulder and the auto was easier to operate than the bolt. You really start to rethink stuff when your right shoulder is FUBAR and your left one is soon to join it. Reduced shoulder function can be a life changer.

As circumstances went, I wound up with a nearly new Remington 7400 in 270. My next door neighbor and seller of all sorts of stuff had it from an estate sale and offered it for a real easy to handle price. Told him I'd might be interested IF it shot and functioned OK. He was fine with me shooting it. So to my utter shock and awe, the damn thing never seems to get too dirty to function, and it shoots better than I can. So I paid the man. Recoil is not an issue.

Maybe not ideal or popular but it solved my issue. I'd rather hunt a 7400 within its limits and mine than not hunt.

My shoulder is the least of my issues as far as shooting goes. The real problem is my neck and headaches.

Semi-autos are out. Can't use them for big game in PA and I would want to be able to use any rifle for deer also.

Keeping in mind that the weight and fit of a gun determines a lot of the "kick" you'll feel, trying to isolate a cartridge without consideration of the rifle is not of a lot of value. keep in mind that a Barret light 50 with a heavy bipod, rear mounted post rest, large muzzle break and super large scope and mount kicks (and hurts less) then a light 30-06. You can see my point.

But as far as the smallest cartridges I have seen used to kill animals of 1000 pound's and heavier, I have actually seen 1 moose killed with a 243, and 3 with 44 magnum handguns. I have seen 2 killed with 270s. I have personally killed a horse with a 357 mag handgun with 1 shot through it's heart. I have also killed a full grown bull buffalo with a 5" barreled 44 mag handgun. I have killed a lot of elk with 270 Winchesters and I have seen about 30 killed with 25-06s 257 Roberts, 243s and 2 with 357 mag carbines. I have also seen about 10 killed with 260 Remington's and 6.5X55s and 7 killed with 6,5CMs. I know my sister has killed about 15 moose with her 308.
My old friend Cy killed a bunch of planes game in Africa with his 7X57 loaded with 175 grain bullets and several of them were Kudu and Sable. The 7-08 is ballistically the same as the 7X57 if both are loaded to the same pressures.
So if I were to make the lightest kicking hunting rifle I could and still feel OK for moose, I'd make a 7-08 on an AT 10 style rifle. Bringing it back to the fact that cartridges only kick as much as guns let them kick.
The Army in the 1920s-1930s used to fire 30-06 test rounds from a sub caliber barrel in a 105 Howitzer. Safe to say that 30-06 didn't kick as hard as a 22 long rifle.
In a bolt action I'd go with a 7X57 or a 7-08 and put a good pad on it and install a "dead-mule" in the stock and add a muzzle break. That would tame it down to around a 223 (but louder.)
I understand the desire to have a rifle you can also use for deer, but Penn has very few moose anyway, so if the point of the post is about light recoil and MOOSE I see no reason to reject an AR10

I have shot big bulls with the 270 and 280. I have shot big bulls at over 500 yards with the 270. With dramatic effect. The 7-08 will kill without issue. In fact come to think of it the last big bull my dad killed was with a 7-08

There have been lots of words written but most do not address your question. To reduce recoil you must reduce bullet weight or reduce velocity velocity or increase rifle weight. I have shot 30/06’s with stout loads and they are pretty close to your 338-06. I have used 270 & 280 with 130-140’s at 3000 and they have a little less but they are not the least. Several have suggested 7-08 or 7-57 chamberings with velocities you only get with a word processor or a 30” barrel. Even if you could get such velocities you are right back into 270/280 recoil. Remember it is mostly about bullet weight and recoil.

I suggest a 6.5 bore shooting 125-140’s at 2700 or so. If you want more velocity then get a 25-06 and use 100-115’s.

Actually I suspect you already know what to do. You have succeeded at stirring the pot. I mean how could you have 6000+ posts and know so little.

"There have been lots of words written but most do not address your question. To reduce recoil you must reduce bullet weight or reduce velocity velocity or increase rifle weight."

I never asked how to reduce recoil. I'm asking for the lowest recoil cartridge that experienced people would be comfortable using for elk and moose.


"Actually I suspect you already know what to do. You have succeeded at stirring the pot. I mean how could you have 6000+ posts and know so little."


Stirring the pot or post count has nothing to do with it. I've never been in on or around an elk or moose being shot with anything less than a .30-06 with 180's.

So, blow it out your ass!

That's good performance! What bullets were being used?

Teeder,

For years I was a 30-06 guy. Hunted everything with a lightish M7o and stiff loaded 168 TSXs. Mostly elk & mule deer.

3-4 years ago I got my first 6.5CM and that’s all I’ve been carrying since. I’ve taken moose, elk and mule deer with it, and been completely satisfied with its performance. In fact, it’s terminal performance has been completely indistinguishable from my 30-06. My kiddo has been hunting with a 7-08 for awhile now. I’d gladly hunt anything in NA with a good 7-08 or 6.5CM/SM.

In your shoes, I’d probably look to add a little temporary weight to your Montana 7-08, or get a new midweight rifle. Good luck!

7-08, 7x57, 280, 270 Winchester, 6.5 Swede, 260, 6.5 cm, 264 win mag (been shooting one and the recoil I think is minimal) maybe the 308 if we are keeping Bullets in the 165gr range.

I am 72 and may not have many years of hunting left but it is going to get done using a 308 loaded with my own 130 TTSX loads. I have hunted and killed a bunch of deer, several elk, two black bear and one moose with everything from a 243 to a 338 WM. I have used and owned dozens of guns. I am now down to two, a 308 and a 6.5CM and I'm getting ready to let go of the 6.5CM. YMMV.

Thanks guys. That's what I'm looking for.

Monolithics of 130 and 150 grains, and "controlled expansion" lead-core bullets of 165-180 grains--and even some cup-and-core 180s.

Among the other great virtues of the .308 (as with the 7mm-08 and 7x57) is how consistently even relatively "soft" cup-and-core bullets expand and penetrate at moderate muzzle velocities. In Africa, for instance, bullets cost a LOT more than they do here, and the hunters who cull big game for meat understand this principle very well. Which is why one of the biggest sporting goods stores I've visited in South Africa has a lot of green boxes of bullets (Sierras) for sale.

But the African PH I hunted with most and know best also culled around 500 Cape Buffalo with the .30-06 and 180-grain Nosler Partitions. This was NOT done with head-shots at night, but during daylight when herds of buffalo were driven past him by ranch workers. He never had a problem even with big bulls.

But hunters who still believe Elmer Keith knew everything about big game cartridges and calibers apparently never grasp any of this.

My large one has been the 35 Whelen with 200 grain or 250 grain bullets,whatever is called for.

Every thing else gets the 7x57 or the 270,just depends on how i feel that day.

Teeter,
I was trying to be helpful. The cartridges with least recoil in a 7 pound rifle that are reliable are 6.5 CM (260 etc) or a 25-06. The smaller 6.5’s run around 2700 but the 25-06 will do 3000+ with 100-115 bullets. In both instances be judicious about bullet selection.

Increasing the bullet weight or velocity will get you back where you don’t want to be.

John;
Good evening to you sir, I hope this finds you and Eileen well.

I'm glad that you mentioned the Cape Buffalo being taken with an '06 as it assures me that the one instance I was witness to wasn't a fluke.

I want to say I've shared this here in the past and have no concept of whether or not Kenya had a cartridge or bore restriction in 1975 or not, but it was there that I was beside a young lady who dropped what was said to be a decent sized bull with a single shot - RWS factory ammo, no clue what weight or construction.

She did shoot it again as instructed when we approached it, but it was dead and didn't twitch on taking the second hit.

Sorry I can't be absolutely sure where the bull was hit, but likely a spinal hit as it did drop when hit.

She also used the same combination to take what we were told was a good sized zebra stallion too.

My late father started hunting Saskatchewan moose with a .303, then graduated to a .250 and finally used a .308.

We grew up eating a fair bit of moose meat John, so they must have worked, you know?

All the best to you and Eileen with your remaining hunts.

Dwayne

Thanks for the information. I've heard that a lot of Cape Buffalo and other dangerous game in Africa have been taken with a .308, probably because lots of military .308 rifles and ammunition have been available there. As you mention, it was apparently not uncommon for them to be used in culling. And I imagine that a fair amount of that was done with FMJ military ammunition because of availability.

There's no doubt that relatively small bore rifles can be effective on very large game, as we know from accounts going back to WDM Bell, although the margin for error is probably considerably less than with larger cartridges.

With proper shot placement I would agree larger bores give more bang to the buck, pun intended.

A page back, my advice as well.

I've elk hunted with all the big stuff including the 30-06, 300 WSM and 338 WM (I also had a 338-06), but like you, I've gone to the 6.5 CM (built in a lightweight and midweight). I've also stayed with my favorite 308 (also a lightweight and midweight). The reason for four is these will go to my two kids when I'm done hunting. I have no need for anything else, and if it were just for me alone, I could be happy with either pairing (6.5 CM or 308 Win) and nothing more for whatever else I do in the future. Loonies love "batteries" but I think what makes the most practical sense are two rifles, of different build quality/weights, in the same cartridge.

Also, how the 7-08 is a "small" cartridge is a bit of a mystery to me. It's the modern equivalent of the 7x57, and it's beyond intelligent dispute the 7x57 is more than enough for the vast majority of game in the vast majority of locations.

I've posted this before, but my last 7-08 kill also happened to be the fastest one-shot kill I've ever seen on any elk. He went down so quickly he gored himself with his 6th point on the starboard side:

I’ve heard of a blank stare, now I’ve seen one!

There's not much going on behind the headlights

I've read that large bullet diameter is better for Africa. You want a larger blood trail if an animal runs off. The dusty African plains can quickly cover up a blood trail. Also meat can spoil quickly. Thus the larger bullet diameters needed, especially on dangerous game. W.D.M. Bell killed a lot of Elephants with 7mm Mauser by shooting FMJ bullets in the head. However a larger bullet is/was considered needed for lung/heart shots for blood trails.

Dixie Dude,

No, not really. A .30 caliber bullet that exits normally provides a sufficient blood trail.

I had to follow up only one animal in Africa, a kudu I shot at 400 yards that was trotting. I hit him a little further back than ideal. I probably should not have shot but the PH was adamant so I did. Kudu covered 120 Yards. I found him right away but let the PH and tracker sort out the blood. About 10 minutes later they stumbled into me. 150 grain Partition was plenty of blood letting.

I say load some 120 TTSX's up in the 7-08, go forth and fill arks.

I killed a heavy cow a couple of years ago with a 120 ballistic tip from a 7-08. She took a couple of steps so I gave her another, but when I cut her up I found the second one clearly wasn't necessary.



If a 7-08 with 120's is too hard on your neck/head, I'd recommend you step down below a 6.5 Creed. A 243 or 6 Creed will work too with many 6mm bullets, despite what some people here say.

Most of the folks who ranch in our part of the world killed their first elk with a 243 or 6 Remington, and a lot of those guys are still using those same rounds every year with great success.

I don't have the experience with larger big game that some do. 1 cow elk, a dfew black bears, and mostly deer and antelope.

Wanna say that I don't think I've ever done too much with a rifle that I couldn't have done with a .243. And that's going back before the advent of the non-lead monolithic bullets.
If I was the OP, I'd figure which rifle I enjoy shooting and experiment with good bullet choices til I was happy using it for everything

For my money, happiness with rifles is easy to find in .24, .25, and .26.
Rifles in .27 and .28 probably belong in that group, too, but I don't have the depth of experience with them to decide

I have an artificial right shoulder and neck arthritis. It's as much the rifle, as it is the cartridge, but my happy place is a Winchester Classic Featherweight barreled to 25-06

And I'll admit that this rifle struggles for accuracy with heavier weight bullets. Still, with the Hornady 120 hp, I can keep all my shots in a 6" circle at 200 yards from field positions.
I'd be really surprised if I wasn't at the top of the food chain anywhere I"m gonna go

Cartridge? If I missed it, sorry......

I'd add that threads like this, minus morons, were very helpful in my own "de-devleopment" moving from magnum to standard cartridges. I grew up reading Wooters, Hagle, and others and thought I certainly needed a 300 magnum of some sort, and a 338 WM was better yet, for elk. I tolerated the recoil and 9lb rifles but never enjoyed shooting them.

I recall in my late teens thinking a good, minimum deer rifle was the 7 RM. In fact, I'd shot a 280 for several years at that point - and bought a Ruger 77 in 7RM in 1983. It killed deer, made a heck of a mess at close range, and barked alot. In hindsight, it didnt kill any better than my 280, or the 30-06 my Dad used, or the 270 I also had. Or my 243 that I started with. Or the 7x57 we loaned to people. Or about any other standard cartridge with reasonable bullets we used. I did kill a few deer with the 338 using 250 gr Partitions loaded to max. All deer died but I cant say any of those cartridges was a better killer of deer than the others. I wish it didnt take me 40 years to come to that........

Amen, brother!

I don't know if Imentioned it Teeder, but when recovering from my neck fusion, one of the rifles I had put a brake on was a Kimber 84M Classic in 7mm08. It was a kitten! It was a "three holes "perpendicular to the bore" kind, I call it an 'artillery style" brake. I sold it to finance something else when I healed up good...but I freely admit to be a bit "loony".

You certainly don't have to justify or explain your desire for a lighter shooting rifle, heck, as I have gotten older, had more joints replaced, more surgeries, etc, I have had to change a lot of things! While I can now shoot whatever I want, my problem is "getting there and back", ha, its "do it different now" or "it don't get done"! So I "enjoy" any kind of "hunt" anymore ( well , not canned hunts, I still want them wild!) You just keep on trucking Pard!

I have been blessed to live in the Yukon territory for the past 50 years. Have hunted solo and with friends, and guided a lot of folks from “Outside”. Consequently, been there to watch a pile of big game put in the freezer. Not the first time I have mentioned this, but it is my distinct impression that I have seen more one shot kills with the 270 Winchester than any other cartridge.

Makes sense too, I guess, as every 270 I have owned was very accurate, and the modest recoil made them easy too shoot well.

Ted

Those Hellfire units look bad to the bone.

What a bull! You certainly get things done.

My Tikka weighs just at 7lbs with the scope, no bullets... 120gr BTs and 43.6gr of H4895 give 3080fps and that calculates to about 15.5 lbs of recoil. This load has killed about 10 elk and some deer easily, last year my brother a cow elk and the next week my wife a decent muley. It balances well and shoots 1/2 moa.

I tried big game and did get 3160 top end, moa, but it calculates to 17.5 lbs of recoil and is definitely harsher in recoil and sound, big fps spread. For me the extra 80 fps isn't worth the extra recoil and isn't as balanced overall at the shot.

I can push a 139sst 3000 with staball but that really makes the gun jump around and recoil was around 21 if I remember right.

Kent

Growing up in SE Texas, my Dad always called my 30-30 "the Big Gun". He and his family ( Depression survivors, WW2 Vet) used a .22 or 12ga. on everything from squirrels to putting a Brahma Bull down! He said a 30-06 was for killing Japs and wasted too dammed much meat! ha I miss those folks...

Growing up we raised calves, we'd get 7 from the dairy, just dropped males, 5 bucks or free depending on the dairy owners disposition that day. Brother and I did all the work, bottle feeding ect. After about 9 months dad would take 6 to the auction and we would butcher 1. Dad took the money and put it in savings accounts for us kids including the girls. When dad left mom I was 16, mom gave me my savings account book and it had close to a thousand bucks in it, was supposed to be for college but I bought me a car with it, 68 fastback, dad was mad.

Anyway by 12 I was doing all the killing as I was a hand at it I guess, I didn't desire it but dad said I was the best at it, on the beef I used 22 shorts.

Dad's friend one day brought over an old range bull he bought at the auction, straight over, gonna make burger I guess. I was up on the top rail to get the angle, shot that bull 5 or 6 times and it'd just shake it's head. Dad finally went and got the 06 and put it down... from what I remember it had grown a thick skull plate that the 22 couldn't get through.

Kent

That's a tough thing to go through krp...poor old cow can't help it, he's got to go, and that whole thing rested on your young shoulders, tough.

Looking in my notes, I see a few well known writers on hunting rank the 257 Roberts as suitable for non dangerous game in the US. The 243 doesn't have as many champions, but some use it successfully.

Moose are not a very hard kill.

When people say "dropped at the shot" or "DRT" they often don't specify where they hit them. I suspect like in the video with the one being dropped with the 7-08 in the video posted earlier. its a high shoulder/spine shot.

Just about any decent bullet from any decent rifle can do that. My dad's go-to was a 180 grain round nose doing about 2450 fps from a 303 British. We never lacked for moose meat. Course he wasn't really stretching the range either but there never was much need to here. I can understand if someone primarily hunted clear cuts they'd be missing some opportunities.

I'm with the guys saying make the 7mm-08 heavier etc. Any of the 6.5s, 7mms, 308 etc are going to get the job done just fine. I do want two holes from tougher angled shots to put more blood on the ground but thats about it. I'm not keen on a miserable long track if I can avoid it.

Last thought, my 30-06 weighs about 9 lbs scoped. Good thing I ain't running around on mountains with it. But a 30-06 that weighs that much won't feel toooo different than a 308 that weighs a pound and a half less. Even better if you reload it a bit on the softer side.

A few years back I was leaving on a trip and could not find the hunting ammo I had made. What was there was some handloads I had put together for a Garand. Pretty tame. Some H4895 pushing a 165gr SST at about 2650 fps. bet that was around the 15 lbs of recoil area of a Tikka in 7mm-08 with a 120 gr going fast.

Guess what? Worked.

I see my 257R as a very good deer chambering but would not choose to use it for moose if I had other choices in the 270, 7x57, 30-06 range.

The two smallest cartridges I’ve used on elk 308 with Speer grand Slam - that was when Speer just came out with the Grand Slam - it wasn’t a good bullet; the rifle a 660 Remington. I understand the Grand Slam is a good bullet now, I never bought a second box though.
The other was a 270 with 160 grain Partitions. Dropped the lead cow - it didn’t take a step.
The biggest I’ve used is a 338 WM (and also a 350 RM) both with 250 grain partitions.

Like deer hinting, I think that elk hunting is very different from one area to the next. I’ve gotten within slingshot range in some areas and the closest I’ve gotten in other areas is 350 yards measured by binocular range finder. That one was killed by the 270. In Colorado in the wilderness areas on top of the mountains I thought the closest bull was going to about 750 yards after hiking all day, then on the way back I came across another bigger bull at about 50 yards.

To be safe for all ranges possible and angles possible I’d use my 300 WBY with 200 grain Partitions. Most places I’ve hunted though I think the 270, 280, 30-06 with heavy partitions would be just fine.
If I were healthy and young enough to be hunting near Nez Peres pass by the Selway River again I’d be taking as light a rifle as possible with enough power - I’ve hunted there once - 1978. My 270 with the light weight stock would likely be my choice, unless I bought a lighter rifle such as NULA.

I'm in the same boat and I decided I didn't need a big gun. I got rid of my heavy recoiling rifle. I already have everything I could ever need. I just need to work up loads. Modern bullets can take up a lot of slack.

i have had many surgeries all you have listed and more i am stick`n with my 257 Weatherby mags. this cartridge kills a long ways out with less recoil than a 30-06 but 30-06 is a good choice too maybe ?

Jim, your observation makes me chuckle. When I was a kid my Grandpa bought his "big rifle", a 742 in .243 Winchester. Of course in the mid '70's to mid '80's there were quite a bit fewer deer than now and the only other animal to use it on was a coyote. I'm pretty sure that it was the only centerfire rifle he ever owned.

KC

My big rifles are 45-70's. I don't know if they'll continue to hold top honors though because I keep thinking about getting a .50-70........

Just put a brake on your 338-06 or have it magna ported and keep running it.

I would go with the 7x57 or 7mm-08 with 139-145 gr bullets. I’ve never fired a 7mm-08 but I do have 2 7x57s. Recoil is not an issue.