Good morning 24hourcampfire- Does anyone know of any of the Ramshot powders that is closest to Win 760/H414. I just watched a YouTube video by The Real Gunsmith who tells us he can safely get 3160 fps with 150gr and 2900fps with 180gr 30-06?????? Any knowledge from you guys is really appreciated. He has stated Ramshot has just such a powder.

roanmtn(Roan Mountain, TN)

How long of a barrel was he speaking about?

I'd guess Hunter would be about the best fit for both bullet weights, but both speeds seem a bit stiff if you're talking 22-24" barrels.

Big Game is closest to 760 in burn rate, and very good with 150s, though their data doesn't show anything close to 3160 fps from a 24" barrel. One 150-grain load with Hunter is listed at 3111 in Hodgdon/Ramshot data.

Hunter's excellent with 180s, and can get close to 2900 from a 24" barrel.

Maybe he's using a 26" barrel, and maybe he's FOS.

Shades of the 1950s. High pressures, loads that work but aren't necessarily prudent.

He stated his rifle has a 22 inch barrel. This is a very hot load to me. He is using a 1/10 micrometer and Rem brass. And says case expansion is safe when he measures the case head.

Mule Deer- I agree100 per cent because of the BS and FOS. I suspected Big Game was the closest to 760 but didn't know about Hunter loads. I need to get some new loading manuals. I have one that dates to 1969. My most current is 2003.

Yep! The critters shot at our normal loads die just as quickly and much less recoil.

Yes! Really? Mule Deer has asked if he is using a 26 inch barrel or maybe FOS ? HMMMMM!!!!!!!!!

I think he is a bit of a blowhard myself. He lives in the same community and have had him rebarrel a couple of rifles.

Have seen some of his other YouTube stuff, which is what caused me to think FOS....

One prime example: Testing loads for primer choice and making decisions based on SD estimates from three shot samples.

Maybe fos or maybe not, when I lived in the sagebrush...I used H414 for several years in an el cheapo Winchester 670, 22" barrel, stock throat etc and got well over 3100 with Winchester brass, WLR priming and plain old Hornady 165 BT's. I didn't correct for it but I think the chrono was set up the length of the wires, maybe 20 ft in front of the muzzle. I don't recall what the brass life was, but I don't think it was bad, times were hard then, and I was penny pinching, spending a lot of money on Gerbers and diapers. In any case I was pretty comfortable, before the days of affordable range finders and ballistic apps, with a 300 yd zero and almost a 400 yd point blank range.
Eventually we moved back into the timber and I loaded moderate to save on meat. Best thing to do is try it before you cry foul.
Another powder that excelled back then was H450 (the slow lots), just unbelievable the velocity it could get in a 29" barrel Swede with no pressure signs.

I missed that one!

The other deal is believing that measuring case-head expansion is an accurate way to "measure" pressure. There are way too many variables for that work consistently--including how much expansion the measurer believes is safe.

This has been proven many times in piezo labs, but one of the interesting back-stories in the business that I came across years ago was that when started making bullets in Lewiston, Idaho they bought a crusher-type pressure tester, then the business standard. But nobody could get consistent results from it, perhaps due to temperature fluctuations, since Lewiston can get both cold in the winter and very hot in summer.

But no matter the reason, they decided top use case-head measurement for pressure-testing when putting together their first few loading manuals--which had a reputation for pretty hot loads. Eventually Speer did get a pressure-machine that worked, and after that the loads in their manuals became tamer. (These days they use piezo-electronics to test their loads, which are far more in line with today's other loading manuals.

I think another manual has crusher data developed with a bad tarage table for the slugs. Hot loads were the result.

Would be interested to know which one, if you can remember or find out.

But that was one potential problem with crusher pressure testing.

I saw that one and out of curiosity ran the 150 and 760 in QL and GRT for a ballpark idea....both gave around 71K pressure.


He has a new one on how to use CHE for load development to measure pressure, the reliability of that was debunked what 10-15 years ago?

I am sure he means well, but he is stuck in 1960 or so. It works for him I guess which I won't disparage him for.

I'm sure he has good intentions but you're right, he's stuck on some things from years ago. But he's got to be open minded that his method, CHE, was debunked years ago and he's pushing an unreliable method. Hell, even loosely using QL or GRT as a guide would show him he's running 71+k pressure for that 150 load.

It is interesting to watch his slant on stuff and agree, he could get alot of folks into trouble using his method.

He ties a bunch of history to Les Bowman which I thought was interesting in some aspects cause he hasn't changed a bit since that time frame. He builds some heavy darned rifles. Looking at a few he's shown on the videos, they are some porkers, but I will admit the 7-404, 30-404, and 338-404's are pretty cool for what he was trying to do before RF's and such.

I think Big Game is close to 760.I usually load about .5grs less with Big Game that what I load with 760 for about the same velocity.

Maybe his Chronograph is a fold-in-half green box..........