Want to try. Barnes 200gr ttsx I'm my rem 700 35 whelen. Anyone have a favorite load,, powder to try?..

57.5 to 58.0 gr IMR 3031 [max in my rifle and a couple grains above book]. CCI-200. v ~ 2,825 to 2,850 fps. SD = 3.250"

Added: My PN barrel is 1:12" twist and 22" long

Not with Tipped Triple Shocks, but I’ve gotten excellent accuracy and velocity with H-4895 in three different rifles. Loads with 200, 225 and 250 grain bullets commonly give single to low 2 digit extreme spreads. Velocities of Nosler’s loads are really close to what I got in my rifles

I tried 180 Triple Shocks but that rifle didn’t like them. I usually go to 200 and 225 grain bullets for game but the 250 Speer spitzer sometimes groups like a varmint bullet.

Power Pro Varmint is excellent with this bullet high velocity with excellent accuracy in my experience

I've had good results with several powders in the "4895 burn-rate" range, including TAC, Varget, RL-15--and IMR4895.

Mine too. Its only downside is that it's not as temp resistant as some might prefer, but PP Varmint will give an easy 2950 FPS with the 200 TTSX in my 23" barrel.
Excellent accuracy too. Found no data for 200 grains with PP Varmint, so I interpolated between Speer's 180 grain and 220 grain data and it ended up being right on. Interpolation suggests 3000 FPS might be achievable, but I stopped at 2950'.

I load Hornady 200gr. bullets in my Whelen, powder of choice is IMR 3031.

H4895 (AR2206H) with 200gn bullets.

+1 here as well.

There’s many as the Whelen isn’t horribly fussy in my experience. I’d look into Ramshot Hunter as well as the others mentioned above. Ramshot seems to be readily available and fair priced comparatively to others currently. RL15, CFE223,W748 and AA2000MR have all worked well for me but I mostly run 250’s. Check out Hammer bullets in that same weight as the Barnes I’ve heard good things. Especially if you’re dead set on using a mono.

In addition to other recommendations, I have had good velocity and accuracy with 225 Partitions with CFE 223. Use Speer data for 220 gr.

^^ THIS ^^

Never shot one, never will, but a darn good bear load .

Ramshot Hunter is likely too slow for this application. Ramshot TAC is the burn rate more likely to work well.
Speer has good data on the Whelen you can refer to.
F01

Regarding the recommendations for PP 2000 MR - I did a lot of testing with it, and it gave top velocity, outstanding accuracy, and low pressures with 225 and 250 grains, but even though my rifle is an Ackley Improved (which has only a very slight powder capacity increase over the basic Whelen), I just couldn't get enough 2000MR into the case to optimize it for 200 TTSX, even loading to 3.375" OAL. Thus my shift to the faster-burning PP Varmint for 200 grain bullets.

H4895 for 200s and CFE223 for 225s. RL-17 for 250 - 310.

Bob
www.bigbores.ca

8208 and the 200 TTSX are amazing in my Whelen. 2890 or so for speed from the 22" Ruger.

4320 always got me what I wanted with good accuracy as well. Just getting back into the Whelen game again. I picked up one of the Lipsey Ruger Africans. Crazy speeds now seem possible, but all I want is 2500 from a 250gr or 2650 from a 225. Accuracy will be required and temp stability preferred. I’m thinking Varget or H4895 might work.

I use RL15 for just about all my whelen loads and have no problems getting MOA or just over with any load. My rifle is a 700 classic in a Mcmillan stock, and it loves barnes 200 and 225s.

I can second Beretzs on the 35 Whelen loaded with 200gr Barnes TTSX moved along with IMR-8208XBR.

Loading data for said combination can be found at:

https://www.nosler.com/35-whelen#WX611C7

My chronograph results yield 2891fps from a 22" 700 classic stock barrel. Amazingly accurate. It's a great combination for Iowa hunting regulations.

I used 58gr H322 with the old 200X in my 36 Whelen AI for 2970fps. This was the "Max" load for the standard Whelen in Barnes first Load Manual circa early 90's. When the 200 TTSX came out it took 58.5 to get same everything. Lots of good powders now.

H4895, IMR4895, IMR4320, TAC & RE15

Sure wish I could find an 8# jug of 8208. I only have two pounds (actually probably 1.5, max) and it is so stellar in my CZ 6.5 Grendel that I can't afford to use it on anything else.
But both PP 200MR and PP Varmint, which give great performance in my Whelen, are not nearly as temp stable as the 8208. I'd love to have enough to give it a run for its money on the Whelen.
RL-15.5 is looking good in the Whelen too, but it is so bulky I have to really work to get enough in the case.
Rex

I'm in the same boat with about two pounds of 8208 on hand. Saw some IMR-8208XBR for sale at a not so local gun store about an hour East of here for $60/lb. On one hand it's great to see this rare powder for sale, but I couldn't stomach $60/lb at the time.

Just hang onto your hat a while and $60 will seem like dollar store pricing. Powder prices are not going down…

Not a powder issue but I just saw that Bruno Shooter's Supply has Hornady 35 Whelen brass in stock - $41 per box of 50. Might help someone on this thread.
Rex

RL15 shoves my rn 250s at a chronied 2500 fps. does everything and more that a Whelen should do. M70 action with a 25" barrel, Pacnor bbl.

Apparently you don't know what CFE-223 can do with 250's. My 22" PN barrel M-70 SS Classic will with throw 250 Partitions at 2,600 fps with ease - you'd probably being doing 2,750

How much CFE-223 is it taking for you to get 2,600 with 250’s?

Aces,

Don't know what the barrel length is for the data shown, but here's the Speer load data.

https://reloadingdata.speer.com/downloads/speer/reloading-pdfs/rifle/35_Whelen_250.pdf

aboltfan…..Thanks. I don’t know why I couldn’t find it when I was searching but I appreciate it. It looks like I should try MR-2000 first but I have several pounds of everything in the top 5 choices so I’ll probably have to try a few. At least I have a good starting point though.

Thanks again. 👍🏼

ETA….my Whelen is a 20” meant for working up close. I have 50 A-Frames in 280gr but I have not found data for those so I’ll just work backwards and extrapolate…. I can usually half-ass my way through life. 😀

My rifle shoots the 250 grain Hornady SP faster with CFE223 than with 2000MR. Different lots could reverse this

63.0 gets me to 2,645 fps with a 250 NPT in a 1:12" 22" bbl. I've taken it to 64.0 gr (Speer max)

Here's a couple of links with Swift 280gr. data from Shooting Times using RL15 and 8208XBR.

https://www.shootingtimes.com/editorial/35-whelen-centerfire-rifle-cartridge/464067

https://www.shootingtimes.com/editorial/35-whelen-load-data/99508

MM,
I fat fingered it, it is a few feet over 2600fps with the RL15, but no matter. Moose, elk, bear, etc., don't seem to differentiate -- they just die.
RB

Thanks guys!….the campfire always delivers with the knowledge contained here. 👍🏼

Sometimes I wonder if anyone is paying attention to "the world".

There's a global shortage of cellulose, and the Chinese are sitting on the largest supply. The US will place tariffs on anything Chinese, including raw materials.
There are two wars rolling along, and both are burning through small arms munitions faster than WWII.
And people are waiting for prices to drop. ?? Think, maybe in our lifetime, but probably not.
And the powder people have learned that the market will pay astronomical prices when supplies are low. They can sell every pound they make for $50-$60 dollars.
Why would prices drop?

If you need powders, buy it now. That is, if you can find something that works, and it's available.

Although most of the thread has been about heavy bullets, I'll add this data to the mix. I can't think of anything heavier bullets can do that Barnes 225gr. TSX won't.

Last spring I chronographed three loads and shot 3 shot groups at 100 yards with the TSX and my 700 Classic. More shooting needed to prove intitial results, but this is what I got.
67.0gr. CFE223 2804 fps. 1.210 group
59.0gr. Rl-15 2559 fps. .790 group
60.0gr. Varget 2709 fps. .613 group

AA2520.

kwg

kwg,

Have mentioned this on the Campfire (and elsewhere) before, but AA (Accurate Arms) Powders haven't existed for around 20 years, ever since Western Powders of Miles City, Montana bought all their assets. Accurate Arms obtained their powders from various sources, including military surplus, and consequently they could vary some in burn-rate.

Western decided to have the powders produced to their specs, in order for them to be more consistent, and renamed them Accurate Powders. Recently Hodgdon bought all of Western Powders' assets, and now publishes data for them on their website. Their listed maximum for the 200-grain Barnes bullet is 56.5 grains of A2520--while the Sierra 6th Edition page that aboltfan posted above lists 63.5 grains as max with the 200 Sierra, which results in very different pressures than the 200 X. (Barnes present on-line data doesn't list A2520 with the 200-grain TSX or TTSX, which produce less pressure, so the powder charge would be a matter of guessing--especially if the powder is some old Accurate Arms 2520.)

This is all stated because there's still considerable confusion--and hence potential problems--about Accurate Arms and the present Accurate powders.

aboltfan….I love the Barnes TSX/TTSX and I use them in all my rifles. The only reason I was looking for info on the 250 c&c’s is because I bought a bunch several years back when the Barnes were scarce. I was actually looking last night at buying a couple boxes of the 225’s in .358 since I agree with you that they will do anything I need in the Whelen. I will be loading up a bunch and then all the c&c’s I have will probably get dusty until my great, great, great grandchildren find them in a dingy old trunk in the attic someday. 😀

I’ve never had anything but excellent accuracy and even better results from the original X, the TSX and the TTSX….they’ve always been the “Easy Button” for me. I was looking at the Hammer line but now that the Barnes are available again I’m inclined to stick with a known quantity. I use them almost exclusively in my .338’s (except for the occasional 225 TBBC) and totally exclusively in the .308’s and 30-06’s. I’ve only ever caught 1 and it was the classic 4 petal picture of perfection that could’ve been used for a promo ad. I’ve also experienced 2 literal “bang-flops” where the bucks collapsed IN their tracks…never taking even half a step. Impressive results every time that gives me total confidence in their performance.

Hello MD

I use a lot of AA powder. I have had good luck and good accuracy with it. That is why I recommended AA2520 to a friend who wanted to load for a 35 Whelen.

Unfortunately, I don't recall which bullet right now, but it was a 250 grain bullet. This was the "new" powder we were using. I kept a copy of the old AA loading guide on my computer and as I recall I used that guide and the "new" guide along with the Hornady #10 reloading manual to load these cartridges.

I did shoot the rifle, a pump action Remington and they weren't one hole at 100 loads but as I recall they were 2" to 3" load at 100. I offered to tweak the loads for better accuracy and the owner said "good enough". It's times like that that I wish I had a chrony but the goal (his goal) was 2500 fps and based on some simple math I'm sure I got him real close to 2400 fps with that load for that rifle.

He plans on using that gun and that load for Iowa deer where a really long shot is 100 yards so blinding accuracy is not a requirement. Neither is top velocity. Yes, a 250 grain 30 caliber bullet is "over kill" for Iowa deer but that is where his mind set is at. He bought the bullets and the powder and we put it together in my dungeon basement. Maybe I am out of line, but I was also concerned about that heavy of a bullet in a pump rifle with that much powder. I just don't know a whole lot about the Remington pump rifles but they don't appear to be as robust as a bolt action rifle like a Mauser or a Springfield.

I know what you mean about the "confusion". I spent a considerable amount of time trying to decide just how much powder it would take to get to him to 2500 fps (in my opinion couldn't be done safely) with that heavy bullet in that rifle. IN the end I pretty much stuck with the Hornady manual and dialed it back a bit out of consideration for the rifle. I somewhat assumed that Hornady was using the "new" powder for their manual. I know what happens when you assume but, in the end, since I was helping him out, I didn't want to get anyone hurt or destroy a perfectly fine rifle just to reach a velocity goal.

So, I went with the printed manual trusting Hornady to have this all figured out. (flame suit on)

kwg

kwg,

Thanks for the detailed reply. Do you have a lot of Accurate Arms powder on hand? That's what I was wondering about--because as noted the company went away 20 years ago. Accurate 2520 is a different powder.

If you do, good for you. But recommending AA 2520 as the ideal powder for the .35 Whelen and 225s isn't realistic for other handloaders, for the reasons I mentioned: It isn't generally available after 20 years.

I also find it a little astounding that you don't own a chronograph. Without one you're just guessing. Accurate chronos can be purchased for around $150.

Have owned several .35 Whelens, and the "best" powder I've found with both 225s and 250s is Varget. One of those rifles was a Remington Model 760 that was originally a .30-06, before being rebored to .35 by JES in Oregon. It handled the maximum load of Varget easily.

And no, 760s are not "weaker" than bolt actions. They're very strong, but don't have the primary extraction leverage of a bolt-action. That said, I've owned several 760s, including a .270 Winchester, and with "maximum" loads used in bolt rifles it still extracted and eject the cases.

One time I thought I learned something on this site.......cfe223 and the 35 whelen.
Then........I realized I didn't.

I had originally used the old 250X over 51.5gr of AA 2015br, also for 2600fps. I even killed a wad of game with it in Africa. Next time I took it to Africa I used the not as old "Secant Ogive" Barnes 200X/H322 iteration for 2970fps, killed as great as that 250! I later loaded R15, Nosler 250 Partition and a Magnum (Fed 215M) primer for 2750! This was in a 22" barrel. I always used newly fire formed brass for my hunting loads and never, ever had a problem. With the newer powders we have today, I would never make a 35 Whelen Ackley again...but I do like their looks, ha! I moved on to the 338s, but still have great respect for the Whelen!

The .35 Whelen Ackley Improved is probably the most useless AI round ever devised. Have owned one and the "powder capacity" gain was minimal, of course, because there's very little shoulder to be "improved." It doesn't gain enough powder room to make any significant difference in powder capacity, and the original shoulder is also plenty for "accurate headspacing," despite rumors to the contrary.

Except for the headspacing advantage.

If you'd quit deepthroating the 6.5's, and actually do some .35 range time.....you may realize this.

I shoot more than you, on my own land. Earned, bought, paid-for.

Mule Deer only repeats what other gun writers declare. Wake up.

Then why are you here?

What great knowledge do you have to offer?

You look like a great deer hunter!

LOL

"Head spacing advantage" total BS

Hello MD

I have no cans of Accurate Arms powders. I did use the initials AA when as you described AA is gone and the name has changed to simply Accurate. It is possibly I have some AA loaded in cartridges that I have not yet shot but that would be it. The 2520 powder we have been using has the name Accurate on it and it has all been bought in the last year.

I really like Varget but it's been hard to track down at times. It also seems to bring a premium price. 2520 is listed on the 250 grain 35 Whelen pages of the Hogden #10 reloading handbook. My past experience with Accurate powder has been mostly with 2015, 2230, 2460 and 2700. Depending on the bullet and which gun I am shooting them out of I find those 4 powders pretty much cover everything I need. I did buy some 2495 in April to load some 7mm08 ammo.

Although, I have tried Winchester 748 BLC-2 and CFE 223, I usually go back to an Accurate powder of some kind. I do keep a small amount of 8208 on hand and some Varget. The Varget is for the Springfields and M1 Garands. Another favorite that is also hard to find is H4895.

I'm glad to hear that the 760 is a rugged rifle. My friend who owns the rifle has a "thing" for the 760's and heavy loads with heavy bullets. I guess I tend to lean toward the bolt actions and lighter bullets which caused me to question the ruggedness of the 760's. The recoil on the 760's with a 250 grain bullet is substantial. I'm glad to know they will hold up.

I have watched the chronographs evolve for the last few years. Just when I think it's safe to jump in, the science changes and something better comes up. It appears the LabRadar has some new competition from Garmin, I have been watching the LabRadar prices and it seem those prices are coming down. So, do I grab a LabRadar or wait until the Garmin prices flatten out ??

My wife thinks I spend way too much on "gun stuff" now and reminds me every month when it's time to pay the Mastercard bill. But, you are right. If I'm going to help out friends developing loads for their hunting rifles, the least I can do is know exactly what speed we sending them out at.

Thanks for getting back to me. I appreciate the response.

kwg

Exactly how many 35 whelens have you shot?

Probably as many as Mule Deer.

I'll bet you're a great hunter and shooter........on the keyboard!

Other than shooting off your mouth what else have you shot?

Wow.....Great diversion and non-answer.

The 35 whelen is legal for Iowa deer. Improved too.

Uh, yea........did you order the Mule Deer cookbook, by chance?

We have a venison donation program here, for the intellectually retarded.

Dipshit, Louisiana has a season called "primitive weapon season" which means a single shot with an exposed hamer in 35 caliber or larger. I use a 35 Whelen ever year and we have a 6 deer limit

I have no head space problem and no one should

Headspace advantage?

Belted magnum cases were originally designed to headspace on the belt like a cartridge with a tiny rim. Compare the belt to the shoulder of a standard or an Improved Whelen.

kwg,

Have owned a tested a bunch of different chronographs since 1979, when I bought my first. Unless there's some reason you "need" a chronograph to set up on the bench (which is handier on public ranges) the chronograph I'd suggest is one of the Competition Electronics ProChronos, which can be purchased for $150 or less. They're very reliable (have compared them directly, on the same day, set up in-line with various other chronographs that cost a lot more, including radar models) and they've shown the same average velocities, within 10 fps.

Great job, a$$hat. Trying to insult a gunwriter who generously shares his experience here at no cost to us. I didn't have "Read how some random internet moron wants to play 'Who's Got the Bigger Dick?' by the number of 35 Whelens he's shot" on my bingo card today.

Primers matter. When Developing loafs for my Whelen. I was about ready to say "good enough" when I tried magnum primers rather than lerge rifle primers. Little to no change in velocity from the chrony. but from a 1 1/4" group to 1/2 off the bench at 100 yards.
RB

I do most of my shooting at a local range. I have seen other folks set up their chrono's but it seems to be time consuming and awkward, especially if you have to call a cease fire while you set everything up. Meanwhile other shooters are waiting for you to finish setting up so they can get to shooting again.

What is your opinion on the Magnetospeed ? I have heard it messes with the accuracy of the bullet. But, if all a guy is doing is getting bullet speed, accuracy isn't the first priority.

We have nice benches at the range I shoot at and there is room for a radar style chrono. I have been looking at the LabRadars the most. It seems the prices are starting to come down now that Garmin has jumped in.

kwg