I currently use the little plunger-style plugs and sometimes regular muffs but I'm kicking around getting a nice set of electronic muffs. Currently, I'm looking at Peltor SportTac 6S, Tactical Pro and the ComTac II. I can't afford top-quality in-the-ear type plugs but don't want to throw money at an inferior product that could damage my hearing either. I would ideally like to find some good quality muffs that would give me the best protection possible for under ~$250 (hopefully well under ).

My criteria for weighing the choices are:

#1 - Good hearing protection
#2 - Durable
#3 - Comfortable
#4 - Hearing amplification

Peltor is about the best of all the muffs brands that I've tried. You can choose between the 6 and 7 models to suit your wearing style, but both are fine. No muff is as good as molded in-ear electronics, but if you can't afford them, you can't.

You should buy the best ear protection you CAN afford, though. They don't make replacement parts and hearing aids don't give you back any hearing, they only amplify what little you have left.

Molded in electronics....please advise?

I've got custom molded plugs for years, not with electronics... could be worth the effort, the molding part isn't that expensive anyway.

Being able to hear while protected dove and duck hunting would be super!
I hate muffs
Jeff

See the line of products at www.earinc.com for molded in-ear and other types. To be honest, plugs by rival company ESP are probably as good and comparably priced.

While you can still get analog circuits, they are disappearing fast and may be unavailable even while purchased units are still in warranty. So for the last year or so I was a dealer, I recommended that people strongly consider getting basic digital units. Those start at about $1400 per pair. More advanced digitals run up to $3000. If you have a hearing loss and provide a hearing test printout, digitals can be tweaked to suit your loss. That doesn't make them full-time hearing aids, but does make them a lot better for longer-term wear.

By way of comparison, digital hearing aids of the same quality run two to three times the prices quoted above.

Molded electronics beat muffs in every way: better protection, MUCH higher sound quality, much reduced wind noise, no interference with hat or glasses, more comfort and far superior warranty.

Nebraska,

I use the MSA Sordin.

http://www.tacticalcommand.com/

I get them from Tactical Command...jim

I'm not a gunwriter, but I think I can save you some frustration.

I've owned both the Peltor 6 and 7S. The model 6 is small with a low rating. It is light and would be fine for duck hunting or a shot at a deer. But they are not enough protection for competition or lots of rifle shooting. Plus they didn't fit around my ear. They just press your ear against your head.

The model 7-S used to be rated at 24NRR, and they fit well and seal good over most shooting glasses. I've used them for six years in competition and hunting. But they do look kind of out-of-style. Pro-ears look much better, and I hear that Walkers are also good.

If you need muffs to do everything, get big ones with the highest rating. You can always buy the Peltor-6 for $69.00 for a light pair to take hunting.

+1. I'm not a gunwriter either, however, I probabely shoot an unsuppressed M4 indoors more than most scribes. Hearing loss with the 10.5" uppers and no can is both immediate and bewildering. Peltor is the weak brother of Sordin...imo.

Regards, Matt Garrett.

good post........

woofer

Those Sordins seem okay (haven't tried any, so can't really say). The NRR of 21 is only average for muffs, but they do say they use a compression circuit rather than simple clipping, which is good. The fidelity (sound quality) of the circuit will still suffer from "seashell effect" which is endemic to any muff.

Molded electronic plugs have an NRR of 28 when turned off, by way of comparison. Powered up electronic circuits don't have an NRR because they can't be tested for sound reduction when the amplification is on. (duh, huh?) So both the muff and plug NRR numbers were obtained when the units were "off."

NRR ratings are tricky, even when the testing is done per published standards. Some muffs and plugs have ratings far above what they actually deliver. Some makers test muffs after shaving the heads of test subjects. Because most real-life people have hair (not to mention the temples of shooting glasses) the earpad seal is much less complete - and so actual sound reduction is less than the NRR would indicate. Foam plugs can also be deceptive if they are tested with the plug fully inserted into the ear canal. Unless you insert them so deep you have to remove them with forceps, you are getting less protection. If there's enough foam plug to grab with your fingers, the effective rating is about HALF what the claimed NRR says. All bets are off if the plugs are reused, as they do not seal as well after the first use. Custom-fitted earmolds can have an NRR up to 31 - and actually deliver that level of protection because they fit and seal perfectly, and are made of highly sound-absorptive materials. Good molded plugs are often quieter than foam plugs and muffs together.

Midway sells an electronic muff called the ES-85. Regular price is $49.95 this month they are on sale for $19.95. Bought a set and wore them at the Knob Creek machine gun shoot last Friday. They worked just fine and are certainly superior to a regular set of muffs costing 20 bucks.

Liked them so well I bought another set to give away as a Christmas gift.

If a guy doesn't need electronic muffs, just good protection for a reasonable price...where should he go? Thanks.

Honestly, I'd get those in my earlier post. That's about the same price as a good set of 'regular' muffs and, when not turned on, they work just like normal muffs.

I have been considering getting their E.A.R. Mini-Canal digital. Their website has the price at 900 a pair, 140 extra for custom ear mold. Those are lower than your 1,400 bottom end, is there anything wrong with this model?

It's probably not necessary to mention it since you all are hear at this thread but do something now. We all will spend $500, $1000, or much more for a rifle or fine shotgun, or good optics but seem reticent to spend that amount on protecting our hearing.

The thing is we all shoot and hunt and you lose it slowly, insidiously, but most surely over the years if you do not protect yourself. One day you realize that your first response to about every question is, "huh", "what" and then it's too late.

Inner ear conduction problems can be corrected to a lesser or greater degree but not the neural damage resulting from repeated, loud concussive noises.

Buy the best you can afford now.

Gdv

WHAT????

Seriously, thanks for those who have posted info. PROTECT YOUR EARS! A dear friend of mine shot trap since he was a teenager and he has a terrible time. He cannot get out of jail duties (a patrolling deputy) as a law enforcement officer because of it. He's 32.

Does someone make good, affordable molded ear protection. Something non-electronic to keep costs down???

Good question....

To answer the above several posts... (I've been off-net for a week)

I chose not to mention the EAR Mini-Canals simply because it would have confused the issue a bit. They are excellent units. They are "semi-generic" in that they come with replaceable rubber tips to fit most ear canals. The tips can be exchanged in seconds, allowing Mini-Canals to be shared - or resold. The other advantage is that they can be ordered without the need for a custom impression mold, if there is no suitable dealer near you. They can also be used with a custom mold to replace the generic tips, for those who can't get a decent fit with the standard tips (like me) or for those who want more comfort. Great option.

Standard custom molds are the best non-electronic hearing protection you can get. They are AT LEAST as quiet as foam plugs worn under muffs - and usually significantly better. They run anywhere from $50 a pair to $150, depending on the material selected and the source. EAR dealers can make room-temp-setting silicone in hours (for about $50) or can order them in laboratory (oven-cured) materials for $75 to $100. Any ear doctor or hearing aid provider can order the same type of lab molds, but charge more ($150 or so).

You can even get molds with non-electronic filters that provide protection but allow normal speech to be heard (NON-amplified). Those run about $100-150.

One caveat: you will see plugs advertised with "valves" that supposedly close at the gunshot. Those are NOT the same as filters and do NOT provide much protection, if any. No such "valve" can close before the first and most damaging sound wave can get past it because the valve cannot move faster than sound. If it doesn't have an acoustic filter (using that EXACT language) it is not safe to use for shooting.

Confused enough now? If so, PLEASE feel free to PM or email me, or talk to the very nice people at EAR. There are MANY options to suit any shooter's needs and budget, but only a true dealer who works with shooters can walk you through the thicket of all the options.

Rocky,

Thanks for taking the time to answer all our questions. One quick question though. Can I assume that the oven-cured materials offer better protection?

Thanks,

Dan

Nope. They offer the same protection levels, but are more or less permanent. They simply never wear out. Made on the spot molds should be treated with a protective coating, and should be re-treated periodically. Most EAR dealers and the company itself will do re-treats free and forever - provided the plug owner remembers to send them in every year or so. Lab molds need no coating and no followup service, ever.

I've had people use earlier, less durable on-the-spot plugs for more than 20 years. Today's third-generation chemical formulation is MUCH better even that that. But I told people to expect five to ten years life out of them in recreational use. (In heavy industrial use worn eight hours a day five days a week in harsh environments, they last about a year.) Lab molds last virtually a lifetime in either type of use.

Even if you only get five years, you're only spending $10 a year on them; and still getting much better protection than disposable foam plugs and muffs which will cost you more.

Thanks Rocky. Now I just need to find a place locally that can make them for me.

-Dan

You're welcome, again. PLEASE keep all of us posted, as a service to all future "Huh-ers" among us.

fwiw,
Not a bad suggestion but they can lead to ear infections. Been there and experienced that. Twice. Have seen it far more...

Regards, Matt Garrett.

RockyRaab, I recall reading (somewhere) that it's still best to use a muff over plugs. The claim was a fair amount of energy can get to your inner ear through the skull and the soft flesh around the ear. Anything to this?

I'll also point out another way to limit hearing damage when hunting with firearms: use no more than enough gun. A .44-40 will kill a deer if the range is modest; you don't have to use a .300 Wea at such ranges.

Matt, the silicone used by EAR is non-porous, Ph neutral to skin, inherently anti-bacterial and is non-hygroscopic. They are many times less likely to induce ear infections than foam plugs. While I have heard of isolated cases of infections in people who use molded plugs, it is extremely rare, and may have been caused by other factors, such as water in the canal after bathing. Sticking a dirty finger in your ear to "scratch" it is THE number one cause of outer ear infections - and nobody ever remembers doing it. Not denying that infections can happen, just saying it's extremely unlikely that molded plugs cause them.

2525, the skull does indeed transmit sound, but it is very inefficient. Only a few percent of total sound gets to the inner ear via bone conduction, and even at that, the entire skull transmits it, not just the mastoid bone area. You truly hear through your nose, both through bone conduction and through your eustacian tubes directly to the middle ear. The only people who warn about mastoid conduction are muff manufacturers; might be a connection there? That said, I'll never say someone is using too much hearing protection. If you choose to wear muffs over molded plugs, I salute you. I do that myself when I shoot indoors.

BTW, the NRR values are not additive. That is, if you use a NRR 21 muff over NRR 23 plugs, you do not get 44 Db of protection. The actual NRR of such a combo would likely be about NRR 28. It is just about impossible to get an NRR over about 33, no matter what you wear, due to that bone conduction aspect discussed above. Sound gets to your ears from your entire skeleton, making complete sound protection impossible.

I use disposal plugs and cheap muffs but the dang muffs are uncomfortable against the rifle stock.
With all the post's I have probably missed this part. Can I get an In The Ear plug with same protection as now without spending over $100?

Thanks for the help. This is a good thread!!

Dave

You did miss it, Dave. You can get custom-molded in-ear plugs for $50 to $150, depending on material, seller and options. There's a phone number for E.A.R. Inc earlier in the thread to find your nearest dealer, and you can explore all the various materials and options at www.earinc.com

If some of it makes your head spin, please feel free to email or PM me at ANY time.

Raab,
I'll be sure to tell the Doctor he is mistaken the next time we shoot. He shoots, and has shot, Sporting Clays for years, as well as Skeet for the Navy and was the one to tell me when he saw me wearing them a few years back... Being a duffer I went with his suggestion because he was a Doctor, an active shooter, and I had had two recent ear infections...

I've been around the block when it comes to hearing protection due to extreme invasive tinnitus. Shooting related. Wore hearing aid like "maskers" that produced a white noise for 5 years with modest sucess. The Jastreboff protocol combined with meds allowed me to get a little sleep. Oddly enough mine came from hollow fill McMillan stock and not improper hearing protection. The vibrations would be transmitted from the barreled action to the stock and directly to my ear through the jaw bone. I could increase the ringing by dry firing that rifle. Kelly McMillan is aware of the problem and will provide a .250" piece of foam at the request of the customer. I never shoot one anymore without an Eagle Padded Cheekpiece. The heavier fill stocks have a fraction of the problem...fwiw & imo.

Regards, Matt.

Thanks Rocky. I just didn't know if a in the ear product would work as well as the double protection I am now using. ? .

I have experienced the vibrations, only mine go to the muff and then to my skull. One reason I want to ditch the muffs.

Dave

Oh Matt, yes, tinnitus is a real b1tch. I've had it for 50 years, and can vouch that neither shooting nor flying jets made it any better. Sigh. My wife is a teacher of the deaf, and even though she knows about tinnitus intellectually, she never seems to be able to grasp what it means physically 24 hours a day.

I'm not arguing with the doctor (is he an ear doctor or some other flavor?) because I'm not one. But I have served more than 15,000 earplug customers and believe I have something of a handle on molded plugs. Within that context, I still say that outer ear infections directly CAUSED by wearing molded plugs are rare indeed. The actual cause is almost always something else - like that pinkie in the ear thing.

Thanks for all the info. I'll be sure to pick up some custom plugs when I get back to the U.S. (and shooting) again. I always disliked wearing the muffs (over foam plugs) anyway.

Rocky,
He is a Navy ENT and a good one. I've gone through enough of these doctors searching for help that I can usually seperate the wheat from the chafe. Does not make him infallable, however, I stopped wearing the inserts and the ear infections went away. He also diagnosed a spasm in the tensor tympani muscle, in the inner ear, that was actuated through neck tension that lead to spikes in my tinnitus. Something no other specialist brought up... And I've been from The Southeast Tinnitus Clinic(now EVMS), Duke, to Dr. Shemesh at Hadassah Medical Center in Jerusalem just to name a few... The latter pioneered their treatment due to IDF Soldiers experience concussive hearing loss during duty. None have proven a silver bullet, however, taken together after ten years I'm now able to function relatively normally...

You know if there is anything I think we as a community can agree on it is the necessity of the best hearing protection available. I've run just about everything on the market and find them all to be a trade off. That said the expense and misery of severe intrusive tinnitus is a health threat that I think many shooters underestimate. They have no clue how bad it can get...fwiw & imho.

Regards, Matt Garrett
757-581-6270

http://www.earinc.com/p1-electronic-minicanalreg.php

This appears to be the "Mini-Canal" that Rocky was talking about.

I've been wearing Peltor 7's for several years and my hearing is still getting worse but I suspect it's tinnitis and that nothing can be done about it.

Rocky... Is this the unit you recommend for shooters?

Can you still get them and make a few bucks for yourself if we order through you or should we order online direct or ????

$bob$

Matt, it will come as no surprise to you that adult-onset tinnitus is a major reason for suicide. To the rest of you, yes, it IS that bad.

LD, I do recommend the Mini-Canal - or whatever other electronic plug your budget will support. They're all good to unbelievable. (The top-line Digital Two-Way has a setting that cancels wind/rain noise as well as blocking shots - but allows other sounds through. I call it the VooDoo plug, because I can't imagine how it does that. But it does!)

As always, buy the best you can possibly afford.

Have just started to use electronic plugs while hunting. But, have trouble in determining the direction sound is coming from. Any advice?

Battue

You are wearing two of them, right? If so, the key may be as simple as turning the volume down a bit. The most common tendency is to crank 'em up to "really hear what's going on" but that also distorts your brain's long-acquired sense of distance and direction. You should also balance them: rub your hands together near each ear and slightly adjust the volume until they both sound equally loud. (Hint: do that both with AND without the plugs so if you have a natural imbalance, you can duplicate that with the plugs in.)

Other than that, it's mostly a matter of giving your brain time to re-learn the significance of what it's receiving through this new input source. In short, just wear them a lot.

Thanks, that seems to be the case. Also different volume settings for each ear seems to help.

Battue

Great! PLEASE keep the board posted about your experience with them. We can ALL benefit from saving our ears.

Rocky,

Thanks for your advice on hearing protection. Didn't know if I could locate an E.A.R. dealer near my home on Alaska's Kenai Peninsula or not, but low and behold there was one just down the road about 4 miles. So I went over to his house tonight and obtained my first set of Insta-Mold ear plugs. Man did the room get quiet when he placed the mold material in both ears. All I could hear was that background ringing (tinnitus). I look forward to using these in the effort to protect what's left of my hearing. I already have the Peltor 7S muffs, which I'll use over the Insta-Mold plugs when shooting at the gun range. That way I can turn the Peltors up to hear conversation but when the rifles goes off, I'll have both units helping to protect my hearing.

Only problem is, now you've got me considering the electronic (digital) molded E.A.R. units. And they are expensive!

Yes they are. But as I always say, only you can put a value on your hearing. If the ability to hear is only worth a quarter to you, then use twenty-five-cent earplugs. But if it's priceless...

The look on people's faces when I fitted them with molded plugs always gave me a kick. Until that moment, you really never know how good an earplug can be, and it's absolutely startling.