I am a non relaoder at this time and I am interested in this caliber and am looking at a kimber rifle but I have some concerns do you think this will stay around as factory round and will any one else start making it besides federal? If I buy this gun will I end up needing to reload? What are your thoughts longevity or short term? I understand wildcaters have been using this for some time?

thanks

Personally I feel that a good way to judge a round is by how it stands on its own without all the start up marketing bucks pushing it.

If it were up to me to guess I'd say it'll begin a slow dive to a dirt blanket once the marketing window and honey moon period of the round comes and goes.

If it were me I'd just buy a 308 and know that it'll do all the other will do.

Dober

Great post Dober. If I was worried about a cartridge surviving and didn't reload I doubt I'd get to interested in something that hadn't been around 15 years or so.

I think that the 338 Ruger Compact Magnum will see to its downfall. If I wanted a 338 and didn't want to go with a long action then I would try to get as much velocity and energy as possible.

If you're a non-handloader and plan to stay that way, the .338 Federal, like a lot of other useful cartridges, may not be the way to go.

If you are a handloader, you will never have trouble finding components that work for it. Still, it may join a long list of other really good ideas that that got lost in the swirl of mediocre to bad ideas -- like the .358 Winchester, for example.

I think it's a dandy cartridge that will push bullets of equal weight somewhat faster than a .308 -- which is why I had one built. Just picked it up, and have it fitted to the factory stock (Ruger 77 Mk II RSI ). If the weather cooperates this week, I'll shoot it some and see how my theories are working.

DN

Other than the 243 Win any other cartridge based on the 308 parent case has taken years to establish itself. The 7/08 and the 260 rem are classic examples. I find the 338 Federal a good concept that should survive...hopefully.

Doc

Zebras heart after a 210 grain TSX passed through it at about 100 yards






Zebra and Kimber 338 Federal

I really like the Kimber 84M's and if I did not have so many .358's I might be tempted to get one in 338 Federal. The new Ruger round will not fit in an 84M or at least I doubt that it will.

There are going to be more and more cartridges that brass is going to be quite difficult to get and loaded ammo also. One of our well heeled members here mentioned getting a 300 H&H and then gave up on the idea as that round is difficult to get brass for. But then he travels a lot. I am not selling my 300 H&H for that reason.

When I hunt out of my own vehicle it does not matter if the round is available where I am or not. I make and carry my own. If I flew to Alaska or Africa I am quite sure there would be 30-06 ammo there in case the airline lost my 338 Federals.

I have quite a few guns already for obsolete cartridges including the 358 Win. I doubt that I will buy a 338 Federal for many reasons. However if some nice wood was on a gun I might grab it. Thats the fun of guns. They don't cost all that much or talk back.

There are cartridges that are just about dead like the 225 Win, 307 and 356 Win etc that were not introduced all that long ago in terms of the cosmos.

Get a 308 in the Kimber and then start to handload. Then make up your own mind once you get into it.

Will the 4 groove 1/12 twist .308 Kimber barrel shoot a 200 grain bullet as well as the 6 groove 1/10 twist Kimber 338 barrel will shoot something of the same or similar weight? I handload so if I could stuff a 225 into a 338 Federal I would try those as well. Will the 338 Federal be as popular as the .260 Remington in 5 years?

You made a valid point Jimmy about the twists.

I doubt the federal will be as popular as the 260 (though I do remember when folks said the 260 was dead, it was just a 7mm-08 except not as good.)

Even so, the 338 federal is been chambered by a couple of companies and federal loads some good bullets for it. For a reloder its much like the 358 win, a great easy to load easy to shoot cartridge.

338 federal is another cartridge that would be well served by a chambering in the M7.

Will it stand the test of time..... dunno. I have a feeling it's going to be around for awhile as Federal is loading their ammo with a decent selection of bullets (180gr. Accubond, 185gr. TSX, 210gr. NP) and not to mention there's a 200gr. Fusion bullet.

More support in terms of ammo than what was available over the counter for the .358 Win

I hope is sticks around.... I had HCR build me a .338 Federal on the Kimber 84M Montana (before Kimber decided to bring it out). If I had it to do again..... I'm not so sure..... with hind sight may have just kept the .308 as I don't see where the .338 Federal will do what the .308 can't. But I'm "stuck" as I have too much invested in this particular rifle! lol

Hard to predict the long term popularity, but I tend to agree with Mark's assesment.

On the other hand, in the last 10 years or so, the 338 bore size has gotten a lot of interest. 338 RUM, 338-06 standardized, 338 Fed, now the 338 RSM, 338WSM wildcat, 338 Edge wildcat, 338Allen Mag widcat, and increased popularity of 338 Lapua Mag.

The selection of 338 bullets keeps growing. As long as there is a 308 Winchester, there will be an economical supply of brass to form into 338 Fed.

I'd say if you like it, why not. You will probably want to take up handloading one of these days anyway.

The .338 Federal will be popular with those who already have .338-08's, and even .308 shooters and hunters. But what will be the main reason for it staying in the market is ammo availability. I don't see any reasons for Federal not to produce more ammo for it. After all, wasn't it Federal that made this cartridge official?

I understand that it's difficult to attain the velocities of Federal loadings for it. The loads I see in their web site are with 180 grains to 210-grain bullets, which should be about perfect for hunting in the lower-48 States, or any hunter who likes this former wildcat.

Most of the folks, for an unknown reason, seem to tout light for caliber loads these days. With that in mind, I can't see much difference in a 308 with 200 grain Partitions and the 338 Fed.

Wayne

How about the difference in the frontal area of the 2 when expanded.. Did you notice the size of the wound channel in that Zebras heart...

this stuff is hard to quantify. How big a hole would a 165 NP in 308 have made in the Zebra's heart at 100 yards?? I don't even know if it would be suitable for an animal like this? I am in the market for a new short action rifle, I hand load and don't care one way or the other if I launch a .30 cal 150 cup and core at a deer or a 30 cal 180 Partition, said deer if hit well will be in the freezer. If I launch a 180grain .338 caliber grain projectile it will do the same job as a 180 .308 caliber projectile on small deer. If I want to wack something like a big pig or black bear their could be an advantage to a 210 grain NP in caliber 338, I personally just don't know for sure. The 338 Federal while not mainstream may offer more for a slightly different animal size, I just don't know. For me I am thinking get the 338 Federal, try it and if you don't like it sell and get a 308. The Kimber 308 barrel is 1 twist in 12 and 4 groove, so I am not confident this will stabalize a 200 grain .308 caliber bullet. I also agree Remington has lost its way regards the intent of the model 7 WSM's SAUM;s etc. A 338 federal in the M7 gun would be great hunting tool.

I just like to tote something that few others have. The 338 Federal and the .325 WSM are my latest buys!!!

With equal pressures, the 200 gr .338 will leave the muzzle faster. It's an expansion ratio thing. Now that I have my RSI .338 Federal, I intend to do some comparative testing with my .308 RSI. I'm betting I can gain more than 100 fps in the .338 over the .308 with equal bullet weights.

Whether that matters to anyone or not is a moot point, because I had the gun built for me .

DN

Dennis

What twist did you go with and was this a new barrel or a rebore by Jim Dubell. I know you probably told me when we talked about it in Reno last year, but my memory isn't the greatest sometimes.

Many thanks

I got a hunch it has something to do with better bullets, flatter trajectories, and less recoil.

The Kimber Montana kept the WSMs alive - they make no sense in a M-70 or 700. Also, bullets get better every day - the TSX line makes lighter cartridges more viable every day. And who knows what's around the corner?

The 338-08 had a good reputation before Federal picked it up. CNC machinery has changed the gun business as much as scope sights did, so who knows? There is no reason for the 338 Federal NOT to survive.


Okie John

Larry,

It's a 1-10 3-groove PacNor -- the original Ruger barrel in the RSI is too skinny to rebore to .338. Jim did the rebarrel and rest of the work. Haven't shot it yet, but I like it pretty well .

Shooting will come this week, weather permitting.

DN

Mid South has 338 Federal Fusion 200 grain bullets for $22.95 a box, buy 100 dollars worth shoot them and you have brass for a long while. Does anyone know if this round operates at any higher pressure than a 308?

I'm for betting that it does as the couple of buds that I have that are working with the round can't get to the speeds that were reported via the gun write ups.

Go figure.

Dober

I think you should post that zebra heart one more time to make it an even Bakers-dozen while you tout your TSX...grin...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't the .338 Federal performance numbers unobtainable with the powders available to us mere mortals???

If that's the case, then the round is basically useless to handloaders, sad to say.

scott

That's not the case as for as I know. I believe that you are thinking about the Ruger 338 RCM

Just letting people see what happened............

Dober,
+1 on that. Try to match their velocity on a 140 grain 7WSM load!
Marty

RSY, long ago I built a 6BR, 6.5/308, and also stuffed a 200 ballistic tip 338, into a 308 case, been sitting in my desk for about 10 years if not more, while I had a 338/06.

I have to say, there was a guy LONG ago, written up in Precision shooting IIRC that did a 338/08, perhaps Roy Smith-M88 lever as at the time, no partition existed for a 358 IIRC, later Ken Waters and others built them, BEFORE it was factory loaded with 'magical mystery pixie dust=SPECIAL POWDERS' as the round was deemed viable, and did very well in testing including on game.

To say the 338 federal is useless is not correct IMHO. It has a place, and w/in 300 yds, I'd shoot any moose, deer, black bear, or elk with a good 185x, 210 x, 210 partition, 225gr, and perhaps even the 200 hornady-even on the big stuff. Let's face it......handgunners have been killing LARGE game with bullets not much heavier at speeds less than half the 338 federal. It is not a whimp, it stands on its merits despite taking a back seat to larger ctgs. Just because it does not hit 3,000 fps does not mean the game will refuse to fall/drop when hit right.

Good 200 zero I'd suspect would put you on a hold that is never a hair over the backline on deer or larger at 300 yds. That is further than MOST game is shot, or most should be shot at by a majority of hunters. Remove the sandbags and see how people do under stress, cold weather, etc. etc. Anything the '06 has done, I think the 338 federal can do on large game w/in 300 yds. Same vs the 358, just using say 25 grains less lead to equal fps and SD and killing effect is little different I'd strongly believe.

I agree. It surely is not useless.

But, again, as a handloader, it is definitely useless to me, putting it lightly, if my handloads can't match the factory offerings.

scott

Well Scott, I hate to tell you, but if 50 fps or so is going to change the outcome of what you are doing, look at the RCM, 338/06, or Win Mag version. I have serious doubt about so called, factory load specs being unobtainable by handloaders. I think Hornady does as much as far as HOW they pack powder in a case, as much as WHAT pixie dust they use. Nothing magical as far as I am concerned.

Think of all the 308 and 30-06 shooters who have done fine ALL these years before the light magnum and high energy loads came out! A non issue in the real world as we are talking very little difference.

My buddy had some Federal 280 160 gr accubonds, such a HIGH tech bullet and guess what, from his 24" Custom shop 700, his load clocked a mere 2625 over my chrony. I say heck, my 708 could EASILY do that, yet he busted a big fat hog with it, hog never argued, died fast, true long shot trajectory will be affected, but what the 338 federal is designed to do, trust me, if you use top loads with available powders you will get plenty good ballistics, just remember, MANY factory loads never shoot to spec. When Rem 260/140 gr came out, spec at 2750, yet reality had them 200-250fps or more SLOWER. That is a big difference-one where reloading would HELP. Don't buy the hype of all the marketing efforts. Some is just that.....

To me while matching factory offerings is a goal to work toward (or better) it does not mean that the handload I make is useless if I cannot match the factory load. A 210 grain 338 caliber bullet at 2500 FPS is reasonable in my mind.

It really escapes me as to why Ruger chambered the 338 Federal in a 16 1/2" barrel.

Handy is one thing , emasculating the cartridge is another! I will probably buy a rifle chambered in 338 Federal with a 22" barrel. I am enamored with the Remington Model 7 since it is a lightweight, not prohibitively priced rifle, but would like it to be offered witha 21-22" barrel.

Well, 65BR and jimmyp, I have to admit that it's really not an issue of FPS. It's more on the principle of what I see as another in a series of recent attempts by the ammo companies to marginalize handloaders by introducing rounds with performance we can't duplicate. Maybe far-fetched, but it bothers me.

Now, with regard to the .338 Federal, I also have to admit that when it was first introduced I began secretly hoping for a Ruger No. 1 International in .338 Fed. It probably will never happen, but my interest in the round was indeed piqued.

jpg,(and others),I've had NO problems getting either of my 338Feds to shoot faster than factory advertised velocities. That is baloney about "secret,factory only" powders. Canister powders are working fine. Get one and go out and play. By the way, when did us guys start asking each other if it's OK to buy this or that gun? Kinda getting to sound like a bunch of gals--"Do you think I should buy these shoes or those shoes? What will Ethel think? Will they work with my outfit?" Love,338 Federal. P.S. Factory 210 partitions give me 2504fps.Enjoy your new toy!

Good Post 338F, now tell me what barrel length, gun, powder and bullet are you using?? I want to go this way as I want to shoot 180's fast 90% of the time and heavier fast as well. I am stuck at home today due to Turkey and being rained out this AM, I heard a deer blow just when my silly sister called me at 7:00AM, we keep our cell phones on vibrate in case one of us has an emergency..so buzz went the phone, and the deer blew above me. Finally the rain this AM conswaided me to forget another blue gun and get the SS Montana. By the way Ethel can't shoot for beans anyway..

Awesome!! Love the cal/gun package!

I have the 300wsm and would in a heart beat get the 338fed/325wsm/or a 308 if I was looking!! Nice real nice!

RSY, I understand your thoughts, and at the SHOT show '07 RUGER planned to make a 1A, but I like you would prefer the handier RSI, as I had one in 243 that was SWEET and .6-.8 moa accurate at 200 yds with a 6x Swaro.

I personally don't care for the super short bbl rugers but there must be people who like the size, for me the blast alone would deter me, let alone I like 19-22" for a mid bore, with good expansion ration ie. 338F or 358.

That DOES sound nice. When did they make those in .243?

When I get one, it'll likely be the 7x57mm. Of those currently available, that's the ideal cartridge for the 20" barrel, I think.

scott

Mine was mfg around 2000, should still be made as the 270, 7x57, and '06. Never seemed to follow through on their 338 Fed in 1A, maybe the new RCM round will get slated.

jpg,Two rifles;Tikka and Kimber Montana. Both with 22" bbls. H4895,Fed215 primers,re-formed W-W cases(weigh the least of any 308 cases and give more inner space),185TSX gives 2870fps,200 Speer gives 2690fps. Very simple to load for and not finicky.Still playing with loads and will report later this winter.By all means get one and start playing.Barnes is supposedly coming out with a plastic tipped TSX in 160gr.If that happens and the BC is any good then I can get rid of my 308 Win.

Ruger RSI in .338 Federal:



NECG front sight:


Ruger African rear sight:


Caliber script:


Barrel is a PacNor 3-groove, so no, it's not a factory model.

But it ought to be .

If the weather breaks, I'm going to run it over the chrony tomorrow.

DN

MD, That looks gooood!Anxious to hear what she'll do.

MD, very nice rifle, I have always admired the manlicher stocks, how much does your rifle weight?

DN:

Nice rig! If it were only a No.1 it'd be perfect. (I'm a lefty )

scott

My "other brother Darrel" (muledeer not Mule Deer) did indeed put together a nifty little .Ruger .338 Federal.

I have been hunting with a Kimber 84 in .338 Federal some this fall. With a 15.-4.5 Nikon it weighs 6-1/4 pounds so is a nice weight for woods/mountain hunting. Mostly I have been shooting the Federal 200 Fusion load, but so far have been matching factory ballistics quite easily with Ramshot TAC powder. I suspect that if I keep this rifle (a loaner) the 200 Hornady at 2700 or close to it would be my all-around load, but the 210's from either Nosler or Barnes would be good for really serious work.

A 200 spitzer at 2700 will shoot flat and fast enough for 400-yard shots. I know this from shooting other rifles with spitzers at that speed, from the 6.5x55 up to the .375 H&H. This muzzle velocity will not excite some shooters, but it will do the job.

Whether the .338 Federal survives is another question. I suspect it will, because unlike the .358 it was designed around bolt actions and modern bullets. But any cartridge over .30 will always be looked at as "specialized" in today's market.

On the other hand, recoil even in a light rifle is not much. One of the reasons the .358 (and various other small .35's) faded is that recoil with 250's was pretty stiff in light woods rifles.

I am guessing the .338 Federal will hold on, if only marginally as a specialty round for hunters who don't feel 3000 fps is an absolute necessity. I was prepared not to like it, but now do, a lot.

mule deer- Very NICE!!! Anxious to hear how it shoots for you!

Hey Dennis, that RSI looks great! Look forward to hearing how it shoots. A 3x would be just about perfect on that....I suspect you have a few lying around, looking for a home

Jeff

a magnum of any type is LOUD, so much so that it probably damages your ears more than a standard round like a 30-06. They are both noisy but having shot a 23 inch barreled 300WSM in the field now I can say that while it is effective if applied correctly, it hurts my ears more than my a 24 inch barreled 270 or 30-06, or 22 inch 308. The 338 Federal seems to offer the ability to cast a heavier bullet (when needed) while possibly not blowing out your eardrums. I do have a question for Mule Deer how does your loaner Kimber shoot with the Fusions and Hornady's? Have you "harvested" any game with the round??

Took it to the range today -- have to work on the bedding in the factory stock, but I think it has some possibilities.

200 grain factory Fusion loads:


185 gr TSX with 46 gr Reloder 15:


Factory velocities are running just over 2500 fps with 185 TSX and 200 Fusion; my handloads are running right at 2400 fps with 185 TSX and 200 gr Hornady Spirepoint. ( I think there's room for some more powder...)

DN

Can I chime in here and say that I see just over 2600 fps with 200's from my .358 Win? :-)

-jeff

Who can really say for certain where the 338 Federal will go. I just bought a Tikka T3 in 338 Federal. Doesn't matter to me..........I handload everything.

Personally............I liked the reverse direction that Federal took with this. Velocity over 3400FPS isn't everything!!!

I like it too. When I was deciding what to rebarrel my Model 7 to, it was either going to be 338-o8 or .358. I chose .358 because the .338-08 was still a wildcat at the time, but the rumor was that it was about to be "adopted". I didn't want to end up with a slightly out-of-spec .338 Fed, if that makes sense.

If I were in the market for one of the little short-action Kimber rifles, for instance, I'd be really hard-pressed between .338 Fed and .308, which is saying a lot because I really respect .308.

-jeff

RL15 what a wonderful powder!

Mule Deer, Some would say that you can't possibly hit any animal with groups like that and certainly can't kill them with velocities like that.

When I get done with the bedding the groups will be better.

When I get done with load development the velocities will be higher.

But I could kill a lot of stuff with the rifle as it stands now .

DN

Absolutely!

Nice rifle in the pics, great feedback, should put the 'rumors' to rest alot re: matching factory load spec with handloads.

Thanks. I need to do a lot more work to get the velocities I want, recognizing that with 3.5" less barrel than JB's test rifle I won't match factory specs or his handloading results.

Incidently, I put it on the scale and it weighs 7.4lbs with Ruger rings and a 4X Leuppie. Wish Talley made lightweights for Ruger receivers, because the Ruger factory rings weigh over four ounces all by themselves.

DN

JB is this a Montana or Classic? What have you hunted/taken with it? How accurate is the rifle? How does it handle at this light weight for off hand shots?