I have been considering pulling the tube on my 7mm rem mag and putting a new barrel in 270 wby mag on it. In looking at the reloading data, the 7mm is pretty anemic for a mag. velocity is typically 100 fps faster than the 270 win (which is not bad) but the 7mm rm uses lots more power to get there. my only ? is recoil as the 7mm is a real pussy cat to shoot. I am currently shooting 162 gr pills and is appears that recoil in the 270 wby with 130 pills would be similar.

I am only using it on deer so heavier bullets is not a real concern.

Any user feedback would be appreciated.

Nothing wrong with either but I "feel" the recoil in the 270 is less enough to notice. I really like mine I built on a 700 with a Douglas #2 in a McM Classic. 130's at 3400, what's not to like.
Dave

Daveh, I read this to suggest that the 270 wby has less recoil, in your experience, than the 7mm rem mag. Is that correct?

130s at 3400 fps, that's cookin!

I would be happy with 130s at 3250 (200 fps faster than the 270 win).

How about 257 wby.Mine will do anything a 270win can.But looking at your name you probably have one already.I just sent my 7mm rem. away to have a 8mm rem barrel installed. 7mm was never my favorite and after 2 missed moose and a 3rd that needed to be finished by a friend,I lost all confidence in the rifle.My 300 wby never let me down but I no longer have that rifle so I now want one that shoots heavier bullets.The only reason I got a 7mm is the gun shop gave me a good deal on a ruger that sat on the shelf for 9 yrs. My vote is for the 270 wby,it is a great round.

257stew. I have a newly-built 257 wby (my second, sold the first for no good reason). I have used it all year but I hunt with at least one of my sons at most times and have not fired a shot yet.

daveh, what is the bbl length on your 270 wby? my guess, with that velocity, is 26".

Brl is 25", I like odd numbers........ I haven't chron'd this rifle but have two others and factory ammo also. 3375 for factory and 3400 for 130 Hornady's and 73-74grs of R22.

Dave

For whatever set of reasons (and there are many), any number of 7mm Rem. Mag. rifles can vary greatly in terms of acceptable pressures, and because of that (amoung other factors), they can also vary widely in terms of realized velocities. This fact didn't get lost on any of the reloading/componenets companies, and that's why the listed loads for the 7mm Rem. Mag. have been greatly reduced over the last 20 years or so. If you look up early 1970s data in any of the loading manuals from that era and compare it to today's data, you'll quickly see the disparity for yourself.

This doesn't mean that the older data is uniformly unsafe in every rifle, but it does mean that it's by no means really and truly safe in every rifle with today's powders, etc. Pressure testing is a lot more precise today as well.

I started loading the 7mm Rem. Mag. over 30 years ago, and I've owned a great many 7-Mags. Some of them accepted some of the older listed loads (including some of Jack O'Connor's and Bob Hagel's hot loads) without any sings of high pressure, and those rifles also delivered high velocities, the kind that you'd expect out of this cartridge.

Other rifles were real headaches in terms of pressures, and would show sticking cases and ejector marks with loads that weren't even close to what other 7mm Rem. Mag. rifles would accept as maximum. That's the nature of this particular beast, I'm afraid.

John Wooters, who was and is an extremely experienced user of the 7mm Rem. Mag. voiced the need to be extra-cautious as you work up loads for this cartridge, and he was absolutely right on with everything he had to say, especially in that "careless handloading practices will catch up with you more quickly with this cartridge than with most others." Every word of that statement weighs a pound, at least...........

That's one of the reasons that I went with the 300 Win. Mag. in lieu of the 7mm Rem. Mag. many years ago. It's fuss-free, trouble-free, predictable, accurate, and it'll do all that the 7-Mag will do, and then some. You can also load 150 and 165 gr. loads if you don't want to deal with the recoil of 180 and 200 gr. loads and still shoot the works, especially with today's bullets.

AD

I have been shooting the 140gr TSX out of my 270Wby(A markV) at 3300fps using RL22 with no problems whatsoever...
I have only so far killed a Mule deer with it, but performance was satisfactory.
I would think 3400 from a 26" barrel with a 130gr bullet would be obtainable.

allenday, thanks for the info. I have read about the 7mm and pressure swings, high and low. I do handload but I don't really have the time or desire to experiment much with loads so I typically stick with a proven load and just fill inventory when running low.

I really have nothing against the 7mm rem mag and I currently shoot factory 162s. Performance is fine but generally ho-hum.

On a personal observation, two of my finest trophies (deer) were taken with the 7mm rem mag and both required multiple shots (no, it was not shooter error but that's a different story). typically, one shot does the trick. the 7mm has never let me down but has sometimes required more than one bullet. no valid reason for this, just weird in my case.

my experience with the 270 win has been excellent and I am looking to build on that success.

most of my hunting is from elevated stands with ranges out to 300 yards. seems the 270 wby would be good for that and the 7mm rem mag would be an easy conversion.

I know it's not the cartridge you asked about but I'd throw the 270 WSM right in the mix. 130's at 3300 is no worse than a 270 Weatherby. The advantage to me is a 24" pipe and a short action - this alone would prevent me from doing the Weatherby. And balistically the 7mm is really no better.

cfran, I had a 270 wsm and sold it, unfired. it does make a lot of sense but I have one wsm (a 300) and that's enough. since I already have a long action win 70 in 7mm rm, the conversion should be quite simple.

Sure, didn't read your original post close enough and would concur with your thoughts. Good luck, should be a nice gun when you are done!

Keep the 7mm R.M. and load it with 140 grain Nosler Partitions at about 3300 fps in the most accurate load (Nosler Internet Site). Lower recoil than the 162 grain, with a ballistic coefficient of .434, gives the round a long distance, azz-kicking performance with high retained momentum and energy with great expansion and penetration. Best of both worlds.

Wayne

According to the Nosler site, with 65.5 grains of RL 19 and a 140 gr bullet, they got 3318 fps. my 270 runs 3050 with 130s so even 3250 with 140s in the 7mm would be a big improvement.

something to consider!

Honestly I'd just save the coin and load 120 TSX's with R22 and go forth and beat up on the deer.

If you want to change it to a 270 Wby for giggles I can understand but there is no intelligent reason to do so (not that we need one when it comes to gun gack...grins).

I've worked with both and like em both, what one will do the other will do.

Do it cause you want to but you couldn't convince there is a good reason to do it.

How far are you shooting those deer to anyway?

Thx

Dober

Forgive the threadjack, but if things are as bad as AD states, why haven't handloaders moved on to the 7MM Wby? I realize loaded ammo and brass are hideously expensive, and factory rifles aren't out there, but the rifle is just a reamer away, and if the market was there for brass Remington and maybe Nosler and/or Norma would join the club and help drop the price.

Remington has made 7mm Wby brass, I guess when they chambered that cartridge for a limited time. Nosler and Norma aren't usually thought of as lowering brass prices.

IMO and IME things aren't bad at all and that's why people haven't moved on.

I've heard these things for years, and yet I've never know anyone who even remotely experienced anything of the sort.

Personally I feel the concept is an old wives tale.

I'm not taking a shot at AD here these are just my beliefs that I've come to from years of big 7 experience.

IMO and IME it is just as fuss free and trouble free to work with as a 300 Winnie. And yet it will do all it will do as well and yet is generally more user friendly and is jsut as accurate.

What you can do with one you can do with the other.

Dober

My very first big game rifle was chambered to 270Wby and it proved to be a great cartridge. However, after using and loading for a few 7mm Rem rifles over the years I think I'd prefer the Remington if the choice was between those two. Much cheaper brass and a bigger choice of brands, plus if sale day had to come I'm sure it would sell much easier.

I agree.

IMO, if you have a 7mm rem mag then why would you need a 270 WM?

Mark, what are you saying?

AD

Couch Tater asked if things are bad with the 7RM then why haven't people moved on to the 7 Wby.

I am merely saying that they are not bad, therefor there is no reason to move on.

The other thing I was trying to say is that I've found it to be just as easy to work with as a 300 and just as effective.

Tis all I was attempting to say......grinning

Just trying to give my opinion and was alway not trying to take any pots shots at you or anyone else. Just stating my beliefs is all.

Dober

For what it's worth, most shots have been less than 100 yards but my last was at 259 and the 7mm rem mag did fine although my first shot was just a bit low (I was chilled to the bone and stiff and I miss judged the range and fired assuming it was about 175 yards). All eventually ended well.

I assume most folks are quite happy with their 7mm rem mags because they do not own chornographs.

In factory fodder, the 7mm rm is quite anemic compared to the 270 wby.

My newest and current most favorite stand has potential for 300 yard shots and the 270 wby would offer some advantage. I have a new 257 wby but have not had a chance to shoot it yet!

I can see that judicious handloading can achieve what I want/need in the 7mm RM but it's nice to be able to buy speedy wby mag ammo right off the shelf. it's pricey but I don't shoot that much at big game anyway. you can typically buy the hornady bullet loads in 240-270 wby for $39.99, not much more than the premium load from other brands. I just looked at the corbon tsx load for the 25-06 and it was $42.

I owned a 7mm Rm for years pre-chrony so have no idea what I was getting with my "book" loads but killed a couple pick-up trucks of deer with it and the famous Nos Part's bullets. That 7mm 700 became my present Gentry 270 Wby with which I've also taken some deer; in fact Hagel was the inspirtaion for the Wby too.

I've read AD's assertions before but was too care-free in my youth shooting deer to be concerned or notice it personally. My 270 Wby does 3250 out of it's 24" tube with 140-gr TSXs and shoots well but I don't know if I perceive much differenct between the two.

Gdv

Just curious but have you given any thought to a 257 Wby?

You're not shooting very far so you don't really have a need for all the gas but I can surely understand the want for it.

Also I do understand what you mean by the factory ammo speeds.

Good luck to ya

Dober

And my Wby Euromark 270WM will do just over 3200fps with a 150gr Hornady out of a 24" barrel. Current manuals however no longer recommend the amount of RL22 used to accomplish this. Still, some cases have gone 3 loadings after factory firing with no signs of failure and no other red flags at all. And the load grouped very well. One suggestion, don't try std 130 gr cup&core bullets if you want penetration. Had bad experiences with factory loaded Hornady 130's at less than 200 yds. Over expansion, poor penetration.

What honest-to-goodness MVs are reasonable for a 175 grain bullet out of a 7mm RM with the usual 24" barrel? When I look at current load data from, say, Hodgdon, it barely beats the aught six with a 180 grainer. And the 7mm Wby, with just a smidgen more capacity, has 100-200 fps more juice.

I shot the .270 Weatherby and the 7mm Remington side by side for several years culling Aussie feral game. Here are the facts.

On deer sized game as your area of interest, I found the .270 Wby to be far and away the more emphatic killer. I would suggest that the reason for this is that the bullets are mostly designed for standard .270 Winchester velocities and when you push them that little but harder, they open faster and more reliably in medium game.

I also found the .270 Wby very sensative to powders. When you load 130 grainer to around 3300fps with the 4350's it is quiet and mild recoiling. When you load up to a full 3400fps with the 4831's there is a noticeable jump in muzzle blast. It gets very noisy.

The .270 loaded with the heavier 150 nd 160 Partitions makes it capable of handling much heavier game than you would think and it has been used on a great many water buffalo in Australia.

The 7mm is more a game cartridge as I found it quieter and an easy cartridge to load for myself. However, and there is always a however... it did not kill as efficiently as my 7x57 when shot side by side against it on medium game.

That does not mean I think the 7mm remington is less a cartridge and I feel you would be happy with either.

I personally, would shoose the rifle I liked most and worry about the cartridge second.

Bullets are getting so good today it is getting harder to make a bad choice.

AGW

Changing from a 7 mag to a 270 mag is an exercise in futility, a waste of your hard earned money. There just isn't hardly any difference in performance other than you can shoot heavier bullets in your 7 magnum and thats a plus IMO...

As to killing power and range, not much difference in anything from an 7x57 to a 300 Wby if the truth were known, in the field that is....

Guess that puts me in the barrel.

Just a reminder, I already have a 257 wby (and a 240 as well).

Based on my limited personal experence with the 7mm rm, it is a ho-hum killer of deer. I would attribute the relatively slow speed of the 150-160 gr bullets I typically shoot as the cause. In comparision, I have shot quite a few deer with my 270 win with 130s at 3050 pfs and it has always impressed me.

my current 7mm rm is a win 70 with a shilen barrel at 24". I really have no desire to experiment with loads and pressure and would be happy to buy a box of 270 wby ammo once per year or so at $39 to have speedy loads right out of the box.

the more deer I shoot, the more I am convinced that speed kills the quickest. I blood trailed a deer shot buy one of my guest last week for 300 yards on my hands and knees in briars and decided that I did not like that much. I found the deer, shot between the gut and lung that took some time to expire. the hunter could not even tell me what grain bullets he was shooting in his 270. they looked really long so I was guessing 150.

my point is that I think I would rather have a speedy out of the box 270 wby than a 7mm rm that I had to fool around with. who knows, maybe I just want something new to play with. I can screw a new tube on in 270 wby for $400 so that's cheaper than buying a vanguard at wally world and then buying a scope.

well see how long this itch will last.

I have a 8x56 swarovski ph that would be just right!

"Had bad experiences with factory loaded Hornady 130's at less than 200 yds. Over expansion, poor penetration".

Interesting observation, I have always had good results with hornadys in my 240 and various 257s. The flat base spire point is my go-to bullet for all chamberings.

Just for what it's worth, I have a 270 Wby that was barrelled up many moons ago with a 24" Douglas Supreme Air-Gauged barrel on a 98 Mauser. It was the best barrel available at that time, and was chambered with the standard Weatherby freebore.

From the day I got it back from the 'smith, it has shot better than I expected, and velocities have been over 3500 fps (yes 3500) with 130 gr bullets, 3200 with 150. The rifle has around 700 rounds through the tube, and after more than thirty years still shoots an inch at these velocities.

It kills game our lighter game, sheep and caribou, like lightning with center lung hits using 130 partitions.

Having said that, I also have an old three-lug SAKO in 7mm Rem mag. It is just as accurate, but does not seem to be quite as sudden a killer, especially on lighter game like sheep and caribou. Comparing 150 gr bullets there is no question that the 270 dispatches game faster, and the 150 Swift A-Frame in the 270 at 3200 is just amazing!

I could live with either, but am very pleased with the 270 Wby.

I'm struggling to understand what "kill as efficiently" means...

...A 0.277" or 0.284" barrel, Mr. Atkinson?

Boy I'm failing to grasp statements I'm reading here. The 7mm RM is a ho-hum killer where a .270 130 gr. impresses. AGW states the 7mm RM does not kill as efficiently as the 7X57...WTF???

Don't have any experience with the Rem. 7, but I've been playing with a '84 (Japanese) vintage Mk. V in .270 Roy. Fit and finish are superb. This version has a very lightweight sporter barrel in 24". While this tube heats up VERY fast, allowing time between shots makes this the most accurate rifle I have ever owned- and that's using factory ammo. Perceived recoil is quite tame.

Haven't taken any game with the rifle/cartridge combo. I've just started work with the 140 gr. TSX. If this loading project works out, the Mark V should prove very versatile.

What about the 7mm Weatherby Magnum? Would that be a less expensive mod, or would you just have to re-barrel anyway? If nothing else, at least you'd be able to use whatever 7mm bullets you have for reloading. Then there are other 7mm cartridges as well, RUM, STW etc.

I'm really curious as to why this 'issue' with the 7mm RM appears to exist in the first place.

Way back during the last Ice Age ('60s and '70s) I did quite a bit of reloading, shooting and hunting with the 7mmRM and 264 WM. Never could see that first whit of differnce, even with the 175gr loads in the 7, and eventually kept the 264 and sent the 7 on its way.

As a sidenote here, I had several boxes of 7mmRM 150gr Remington factory loads that generally gave sticky bolt lift - turns out that lot had been recalled, but at the time I was living out in the sticks and wound up shooting all of them.

I purchased a Mark V in 270 WM with a 3.5x10 Leupy in perhaps 1975 and still have it. I cannot honestly state the round is any better killer than a 264 or 7RM, but this rifle/scope combination has proven to be the most consistently accurate one I have ever owned. I lugged it up into the Alaska Range on two sheep hunts, took about every species of Alaskan game with it (no brown growler or goat) and have taken it Africa twice (Zimbabwe and Namibia both times). I suppose having confidence in it counts, but I cannot imagine anything in this power class being better.

I've never owned a 257 WM or 240 WM - yet....

I think the point is that the 270 wby is loaded hot right out of the box and the 7mm RM takes a little bit of judicious handloading to get it up to performance. I imagine that in the same bullet weight, with top handloads, performance would be similar in both.

For my purposes, the 270 with 130s would fit the bill perfectly. I have a 300 mag so I am not worried about the need for heavier bullets.

Hey 257Bob....Guess I should qualify that comment. The 130 hornady I had trouble with was probably pre-Interlock in factory Wby ammo. In particular I shot 3 150 to 160 lb whitetails at ranges from 100 to 175 yds on quartering away angles through the ribs and failed to get an exit on any. Two were very difficult to find without a blood trail (Ala. pine plantation/thick) and the third wasn't found for a week about 300 yds away. After going to 150 gr Interlocks the penetration problem went away.

shootem, thanks for the clarification!

I'm assuming you're shooting smallish FL whitetails? Nothing wrong with shooting what you want but you certainly don't "need" more than a 243...

I had a couple of boxes of 270WM Norma factory loads using 130gr Hornady Spire Points - I have never seen anything drop a Sitka blacktail like those things.

Having said that, I have settled in on 150gr Noslers - Weatherby factory loads - that really shoot well out of my rifle.

nope, GA whitetails up to 200lbs but most around 170-180. my 257 wby is really fine but I have the itch for another wby and the 270 is as high as I will go (don't care for much recoil). also, my 243 (the 240 wby version) is a dandy.

My 7mm Rem Mag shoots 150 grain Nosler Partitions into a 1/2" group for three shots at 100 yards. Don't know the velocity, but the load is 63.5 grains of H-3831SC with Fed 210M primers.
Last week, my son shot a Whitetail Buck with it that defined bang flop. The bullet broke both shoulders, and destroyed the lungs, with the deer falling sideways straight down, belly up. No movement what-so-ever after the shot.

Don

I still say you should try some 120's in your big 7. Try both the 120 TSX and the 120 NBT ran with R22 and you will be very happy!

And of course you're right, for deer of that size and for the ranges you're normally running your 243 is a great plenty.

Dober

You musta been reading my mind...I just picked up two boxes of 120 TSX's, a pound of Re 22 & ALSO got the LAST box of CCI 250's (1000)count...feelin pretty good...especially about the primers...

They will rock big time, and for serious accuracy in that big 7 some time give the 120 Horn HP a try with R22. I have shot some teeny tiny groups with said combo over the years.

Dober

Hmmmm I'm not sure I agree with your statement. My load for my 7MM Remington comes out of Hornady Vol. II. It's 3400 fps with a 139 Gr. Hornady and 71.4 Gr. of H4831 that's out of a 24 inch barrel. Doesn't sound like .270 WIN. performance to me.

I load my brothers 7RM with 71/H4831 and Hornady 139 and it smacks down deer size stuff as good as anything!

I shot a 7RM for years except with 160 Speer hotcors.

I had a 270 Weatherby that was not as accurate as my 7RM but in all fairness I bought it used thinking a bedding job would make a difference. Maybe the original owner sold it for the same reason I did. At any rate I would love to have an accurate 270 WM. Except I would not get rid of my 7 RM it is like an old friend.

"Hmmmm I'm not sure I agree with your statement. My load for my 7MM Remington comes out of Hornady Vol. II. It's 3400 fps with a 139 Gr. Hornady and 71.4 Gr. of H4831 that's out of a 24 inch barrel. Doesn't sound like .270 WIN. performance to me"

Have you run that load over a chrony? on paper, that's excellent performance.

Just so happens that I have some hornady 120 HPs and about enought RL22 for 10 rounds or so, not to mention a few pieces of brass laying around for the 7mm. sounds tempting...

I shot a couple of boat loads of chucks with that combo and it worked very well.

I'd try it, if it perked and I can't imagine it wouldn't then I'd try the 120 NBT and 120 TSX.

I am telling you I can help you save some coinage here...

Dober

i think the 264 win mag is an excellent idea

woofer

Heres the rub I guess. I cannot tell you within thousands, how many animals I have killed whereas most authorities can state an actual number, usually from a few to a few dozen.

My personal record, at least one I can remember, was 100 kills in 3 hours during a cull. Usually we counted the misses or the animals that required more than one shot then counted the cases we went through at the end of a hunt to work out the numbers. Mostly, we shot and moved on looking for more.

Let me give you an example. I hunted a large property where the owner had never seen his own back fence. These properties are measured in millions of acres here. I wanted a particular species to hunt. The typical retort from the property owner was to name several other species and order us to kill everyone on sight. If he did not find bodies on the ground we would not be welcome back.

That my friend is bullet testing medium.

We are talking deer sized animals here which is why the .270 Weatherby was compared to the 7mm Remington. I already stated my feeling was that the .270 bullets being manufactuered for the standard .270 Winchester was most likely the reason for the faster kills compared to the 7mm.

I am very comfortable with someone else having a different opinion because it does not detract from what I experienced.

The 7x57 using the lighter weight cup and core bullets offers enough velocity to open game bullets in that caliber and performs along the magnums in that caliber up to most "usual" hunting distances. The fact that it has mild recoil and a soft report compared to the magnums means that most hunters shoot it very well neither being intimidated by the baggage of the magnums.

What makes my comments relevent is that these observations were made during my most magnum oriented period where I was pushing velocities to the limit and going up in case capacity and bore size until animals dropped with no tracking whatsoever.

The 7x57 stands out in my cerebral HDD because during that time, I noticed animals falling over to the shot, over and over again, which was exactly what I was trying to achieve using the medium magnums.

That is the very reason I went back to the 7mm Mauser.

I'll say it again, in my experience, on deer sized game, the .270 Weatherby kills game more emphatically than the 7mm Remington. Emphatically, by my definistions means that for every hundred animals you shoot, there is a higher percentile that respond similarly to the shot.

AGW

Yes and in my 26" barrel 7MM it's over 3450 fps

AGW-perhaps I missed it but what bullets did you use in your 270 Wby and the 7 RM and the 275 Rigby?

And at what kinds of ranges did you do most of your work?

Tanks

Dober

Aussie,

In addition to Mark's questions, could you describe the terminal differences you see between "efficient" and "emphatic" effects on deer-sized game, when both result in an animal falling over at the hit?

Also, have you seen significant differences between the 7x57, for instance, and the class of cartridges just below it, like the 6.5x55, the 257 Roberts, and the 243 Winchester?

Thanks,
Jaywalker

So, while you said the 270 Wby kills more "efficiently" what you really meant is it kills more "emphatically?"

Not a bad thread. Has kept on point for quite awhile. Waiting for AGW to write about the 6.5's, .257bobs & .243's. Got a new batch of popcorn ..... just waiting.

AGW,
I'm sure somewhere you have stated it but what was the typical game you culled in Australia? My wife would love to go there someday and maybe I can work in a hunt..........
I always figured there weren't to many deer size game to hunt. My Bad. I thought bush big-game was limited to 'roos, dingo's and buffalo.

Thanks for posting, I much enjoy your comments and experience!!

Dave

"Yes and in my 26" barrel 7MM it's over 3450 fps"

That's cookin!

Interesting, on the Hodgdon site, the fastest load for the 7mm RM with 140s is 3138 fps. pretty conservative!

That statement SCREAMS 270 Wby.

BMT

Indeed it is conservative, that or there running the speeds out of a 9" barrel....grins

Dober

The Nosler site has speedier data...

I think what it really comes down to is that I just want a 270 roy.

I can see it now.

win 70
brown precision stock
stainless # 2 bbl (douglas from it&d)
swarovski ph 8x56 (don't try to talk me out of this 'cause I already have it at home)

All I need to do is swap the tube and swap scopes and I will be good to go...

Just wish I could find a shootable buck to stand still long enough for me to shoot him with my new 257 roy!

Having owned and loaded for both, shot them extensively out to 500 yards,at the end of the day, there is no difference between them. You will load a 140 in the 7mag to 3200- 3300 without incident; and a 130 in the 270 Weatherby to 3300-3350 or so. Sight them the same way, and drop to 500 yards is identical.I have not hunted with a 270 Weatherby, finding the differences between them to not be worth keeping them both.So, the 270 weatherby is gone.

I've been hunting the 7 Rem Mag since the 70's; if you have one, you have the other. I would not rebarrel a 7 mag to 270 Weatherby in the hopes I would gain anything at all.

I just read Allen's post on the cartridge, and agree with what he said, since I have encountered the exact same thing.He is correct. I have two 7 rem mags in the safe right now that vary a good deal in the charges they take to deliver a certain level of velocity with 140 and 160 gr bullets.Throat lengths, barrel dimensions, bullet,etc all have a tremendous bearing on delivered velocities, and I have experienced this with the cartridge many times.

BUT, in just about every rifle, I have always been able to duplicate what I regard as pretty standard velocities in the 7RM which is to say 3200-3300 with a 140, and 3100 or so with a 160 WITHOUT undue pressure signs, reasonable case life, sterling accuracy and great field performance.To take it a step further....

Because I have built and used any number of 7 mags, 270's, various 300's, etc. deliberately varying not only throat length, but internal barrel dimensions as well, I feel very comfortable stating that the 7 RM IS NOT UNIQUE IN THIS REGARD.It is just that the cartridge is WAY more popular than many other cartridges, is made by different manufacturers,given different throats, barrel styles and dimensions, etc. to such a degree that uniformity across the board is hard to come by, and I think this is why data for it is "dumbed-down". You have to work up loads suited to YOUR rifle; if you do, it will perform just like a 270 Weatherby.The powder charges may vary from rifle to rifle to reach the same velocities, but I have always been able to get there.

I have seen the same thing with...the 270 Winchester,300 win mag, 300 weatherby,and 280 Remington, to name a few.The 300 win mag is one of the easiest cartridges to load; but I have seen throat length and barrel dimensions or type make a difference one rifle to another in that cartridge, as well.Ditto the 270.

Any body taking a hard look at the two cartridges will see that the 7RM and 7 Weatherby have about identical capacities; yet the 7 weatherby uses heavier charges, gets higher velocities. Ever wonder how come? Mostly, it's the throat length. Long throat a 7 RM, you'll get 7 Weatherby velocity, and likely your loads will resemble 7 Weatherby data.

Read Dober's comments as well; he is right, too.

Part of the reason I'm such a fan of the 7mmSAUM is that it's a relatively new cartridge and Remington has produced almost all of the rifles chambered for it in a few very short years.

Due to the resulting uniformity from that small lot of rifles and ammo you find pretty fair uniformity in velocity and pressure.

My load for 140gr Accubonds uses 53.5gr of Varget and yields right at 3100fps with way less recoil and muzzle blast than a 7mm Mag and all that out of a Model 7 with a truly short action a 22" barrel and an ultralight rifle.

I don't see the need for all that velocity when accuracy usually suffers above about 3100fps anyway.

If I want more violent expansion I just switch to Ballistic Tips in the same weight and POI doesn't change at almost any range.

What could be better?

$bob$

Bob: There is definately a benefit in uniform dimensions.

257Bob,

I know that factory ballistics for the 7MM Rem Mag are anemic at best; however, they were once more impressive. Like BobinNH, I can easily achieve 3100 FPS with 160 grain Partitions out of my 24" barreled Sako w/o a sign of pressure. I get way better than 3200 FPS using 150 grain Ballistic Tips, again w/o pressure. I have older 150 grain Core-Lokts that chrono over 3200 FPS.

When handloaded and fired in a good-quality rifle, the 7MM Rem Mag is all that and more. There is no doubt I can increase velocity in handloads (I got over 3200 FPS with Speer 160 grain Hotcore bullets, but they were hot!), but with what I not have I am happy as a clam!

The .270 WBY Mag is an excellent round, but by no stretch of the imagination is it superior to the 7MM Rem Mag. I would rather have the 7MM Rem Mag due to bullet selection and sectional density. But that's merely me.

Have you considered a 7 m/m Weatherby?

I have owned one since 1962, and I like it as much now as I did then.

I use the 140 grain Sierra at about 3200. The Sierra manual lists the load I use as giving 3385, IRCC, but my Chronograph says about 3180 to 3200. The barrel is a 24 inch Douglas with Weatherby throat and 1-12 inch twist. It will not stabilize 160 grain bullets, but I originally purchased it for deer and antelope, and the 140 grain does just fine on those.

Personally, and this is just my opinion, I would prefer the 7 Wby. over the 7 Rem. or .270 Wby.

To answer some questions;

Bullets I usd in 6mm:
70gn Nosler Solid Base
70gn Speer TNT
70gn Hornady SP
75gn Speer HP
80gn PMC SP
80gn Winchester SP
80gn Corelokt
85gn Nosler Solid Base
87gn Hornady SP
90gn Sako SP
90gn Speer SP
90gn Barnes X
100gn Winchester SP
100gn Hornady BT
100gn Sierra BT
100gn Hornady Flat Base
100gn Nosler Part
100gn Corelokt
100gn Sierra BT

In .257 Caliber:

75gn Barnes X
85gn Nosler B Tip
87gn Hornady SP
100gn Barnes XBT
100gn Speer SP
100gn TSX
100gn Nosler S Base
100gn Nosler B Tip
115gn TSX
115gn Partition
120gn Speer SP
120gn Partition.

In 6.5mm Caliber

100gn Hornady SP
100gn Sierra SP
120gn Sierra SP
129gn Hornady SP
139gn PMC Sp
156gn SP

In 7mm Caliber:

115gn Sierra HP
139gn Hornady SP
140gn Combined Technology
140gn Nosler Solid Base
140gn Barnes X
140gn TSX
140fb XBT
140gn Sierra SP
140gn Woodleigh SP
150gn Nosler S Base
150gn Partition
160gn Failsafe
160gn Partition
160gn Partition Gold
175gn Barnes X
175gn Woodleigh SP
175gn Sierra BT

As to the question of ranges taken, all of them from a few rock throwing yards out to hold over ranges.

As to the animals that can be hunted apart from Buffalo, Roos and whatever the 3rd animals was?

foxes, pigs, wild horses, (Brumbies) donkeys, Fallow Deer in 4 color phases, Rusa deer, red deer, sambar deer, hog deer, chital (axis) banteng, goats, roo's, wild sheep, dingo's, wild dogs, camels, and whatever I can't think of on the spur of the moment.

It works like this:

You knock on a property owners door and ask for permission to hunt. If he says yes, he usually asks you to thin out whatever is his problem animals. I have had some say, "If it eats grass or drinks water, shoot it on sight.

I have had others order me to go on a cull before I hunt. Not that good an idea because you can stir things up more than you want but that is the deal.

Asking and Aussie to remember a kill is like asking someone to remember a specific plate of ice cream you once had.

Kind of progressed a little since then. You remembe rthe best kills and the worst results.

Seriously, all the 25's through to the 30's are good for deer sized game but the original question related to the .270 Weatherby and the 7mm Remington.

I have seen, to use the term I was corrected on, more emphatic kills with the .270 Wby than the 7mm Rem. I have also seen more DRT kills with the 7mm Mauser than the 7mm Rem. I have seen no difference between the 6.5x55 and the 7mm Mauser on one condition, that is, that the bullets are at 129gn Hornady or heavier. Thos bullets I tested lighter than that were dismal failure requiring multiple shots to drop game.

Another point MD covered once I think; A feral goat is a much tougher animal than a deer of equivalent size. The hair is longer and dog like, with an angora under pelt and the skin is over a 1/4 inch thick around the shoulder area. Likewise, the tenacity of these animals is like shooting rabbit with a .22 short. They seldom go down no matter the cartridge until you go .30 cal or over.

Hope this clear a few points.

AGW

I agree with BobinNH..."If you have one you have the other."

I also believe that if you want one you should get one. You may ask yourself later why you did it because maybe you didn't gain anything but that would have been your choice and your consequences.

I passed up countless fine shooting irons in 7 RM to buy a 7 Wby for the sole reason that I just wanted one. Mine will push 160's to almost 3200 fps with it's 24" barrel. Yes, I had two inches whacked off of it before I ever fired it.

I love it and would never think of getting rid of it. Though it performs admirably with any bullet type or weight I run through it, I am going to settle on the 140 A Frames for serious work and 150 Scirocco's for utility. Serious work being Elk, Axis, Kudu & Bushbuck. Utility being Whitetail and Sheep.

So, to sum up, I think you should have a 270 Wby for no other reason than that's what you want.

It clears up some of mine, thanks, regarding the relationship of the 6.5 Swede to the 7x57. I apologize for having diverted the thread from its origin of "7mm Rem Mag Vs the 270 Wby," however.

My 7mm RM has a shilen bbl at 24" and was installed by an expert so I know at a minimum that the chamber is clean (was reamed with a good, spec, reamer). that said, I am not really into experimenting with loads these days and I really do not want to push the limits with sticky bolts and flattened primers.

that said, I know the 7mm will do just about anyting the 270 w will do and maybe more.

still, I like the idea of buying a box of 270 wby 130s and go hunt. will really come down to if I feel like spending the money and if I really want a 270w.

I was at walmart last pm and I looked at their rifle book. I found that the vanguard is available in the 257 wby but not the 270 so the idea of buying a vanguard in 270 is not in the cards.

time will tell if this itch needs to be scratched.

I still like the idea of a speedy 277 and I have the 300 mag for anything bigger (not that I have any plans to hunt elks any time soon)