Hi Folks:

This is the place to ask John Barsness (aka Mule Deer) questions about his monthly exclusive column for 24hourcampfire. This month's article is entitled, "The .300 Weatherby."

If you have not read it and would like to, you can SIGN UP HERE to receive John's column every month.

Thanks, John!

First of all, I couldn't get to the topic, "Ask John about the 300 Weatherby" so am making this one. Finally someone has rediscovered the 300 WBY! Thank you Mr. Barsness. I must say I have never owned one, but have shot a few in the Mark V and Vangard, and also in a Winchester Classic. The Weatherby's have all been as accurate as John has said and IMO easy to shoot. I was actually surprised by the lack of recoil. The Winchester was borrowed to shoot a mule deer at approximately 200 yards in a high wind situation. Thanks again

I own a 300 Wby barrel for my Encore. As you say it is very easy to shoot. It is highly accurate and not many critters escape its terminal knock-out punch. With its very effective muzzle brake it is like shooting a 7mm-08.

I truely have fallen in love withmy Vanguard 300 Wthby. A 200 grain bullet at over 3000 fps is an amazing hunting tool.

In my opinion, the .300 Weatherby cannot be beat.

Mine delivers 4000 foot pounds, has a point blank range of 300 yards with 180 grain Partitions, holds four rounds, shoots to 1.0 MOA, and weighs only 6 3/4 pounds plus scope and sling.

Nothing else--not a RUM, a .338, a WSM, or whatever--can do all that.

Recoil is acceptable if you work with it. I do not use muzzle brakes. My last eleven kills have each been 1-shot kills, ranging from 150 pound Impala to a 5000 pound Hippo (yes, the latter had been wounded with a .458, but died with the first Wby. shot).

I would not hesitate to use this rifle on Alaska Brown Bear with appropriate loads, or on African Cape Buffalo if it were legal.

Just a Hunter,
What article are you referring to? I'd like to see it as well. Thanks.

Campfire Newsletter I got as an e-mail.

Guys:

I'm going to move this thread to the "Ask John" thread. I fixed the link.

Rick:

Thanks to both you and JB for this monthly column. It's great.

Just curious, and I have no complaints, but how come it's not on the home page with the other pieces? Or is this a new thing you're trying out? Or have you just given up on the regulars ever seeing the home page after having bookmarked the forum pages?

- Tom

We're working on a new set of articles for the Home Page. We're evolving the system and working on various options.

Rick,
If I have never taken the time before to say thanks for the campfire. More and more I find it is the place where I wind down after a long day of work.

I appreciate it.
Joel

I tell you what...I read every word JB has to offer. Thanks for bringing him on and getting another monthly column out of him.

Rick, great start, thanks! Would suggest a broader range for the 'Ask John ..." column as not all of us are Wby devotees.

It's just the first. If anyone is in tune with the Campfire culture, it's John!

I think you'll like the next one. I have it in my possession, but wild horses ...

Where is this column? I must be missing it?

Thanks!

I look forward to these columns and I'm glad to have JB on the 'fire. Thanks

Ditto. I went to the home page & couldn't find it.

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbth...owflat/Number/2465259/page/1#Post2465259

Click on the link, and you'll find a link to the column.

rb

John, I've always been puzzled by the frequently published claims - not alluding to your writings - that the 300 Wby can drive bullets of equal weight and type to MVs equal to or higher than the 300RUM. Given the physics of the 2 cases, the same bullets at equal chamber pressures and barrel lengths would seem to dictate advantage RUM. We might argue lack of practical differences in game performance or trajectory, but IMO not absolute equality in measured performance. I've not tested this hypothesis as I don't shoot the Wby. Is this type of thinking off track?

It probably arises from two sources:

1) Shooters who interpret the higher factory numbers of the Weatherby to mean it's capable of more velocity than the .300 RUM, when in reality the reason is the higher pressure of Wby. factory ammo.

2) Handloaders who feel for some reason the need to defend the .300 Weatherby, and hence load it pretty hot.

Other than that, I dunno. All the laws of internal ballistics say the .300 RUM should be a little faster when loaded to the same pressures.

Thanks, makes sense as usual.

John, did you work on any loads with IMR 7828? I have no problem matching factory ballistics with published data in both of my 300s.

Two questions:

1. Although I haven't chronographed them, Wby factory loads print higher on the target at 200 yards than does the same bullet handloaded by me with the maximum H4831 load in the Sierra or Hornady handbook. Is there any reason one shouldn't load the .300 Wby to higher pressures in order to duplicate factory velocity? After all, there is all that hype about the long freebore, the strength of the MkV action, etc.

2. Back in the early 1960s, Weatherby used to publish load data for IMR4350, since apparently H4831 was not yet available. I notice that this data is considerably hotter than maximum loads the handbooks publish now. Why?

MagMarc,

I didn't try 7828 in this rifle, mostly because people have been asking for data for newer powders. I have used 7828 in the past and it worked well. In fact I believe at one time (maybe 10-15 years ago) that was the factory powder, at least with 180's.

Indy,

1) As far as I know it is still a country free enough to allow anybody to load what they want to. But in general somewhat slowwr powders than H4831 will produce good velocities with heavier bullets.

2) In the early 1960's a LOT of data was hotter, mostly because of the relatively primitive pressure-test methods common then. IMR4350 has also changed a little, but the big deal is better presure data.

Thanks John!

What are the best powders for use with 26" barrels and 150, 165, 180 (especially) and 200 grain bullets? Are they the ones mentioned in your article?

Also, do you have any idea why the Norma manual should list a maximum charge for 180 grain bullets which was so much more than the safe maximum in your Vanguard? Is it possible that a MkV has more freebore than a Vanguard, allowing more powder without excess pressure? Were you using Weatherby cases? (I've found that Remington cases weigh about 20 grains more than Norma cases in this caliber, with less volume, obviously.)

In many years of testing various barrel lengths, I have found that the same powders that are good in one barrel length are also the best in others, at least in velocity.

I don't know if the powders I tried are "the best." The main point was to try newer powders and see what happened. These often are an improvement, though often in not in mere velocity, the basic standard of most handloaders. So I loked over the loading manuals and tested what looked good.

I was indeed using Weatherby cases, and the Vanguard apparently (I checked with a bore-scope) has the same freebore as the Mark V. I have no idea why Norma data was so warm in my rifle, but it is another excellent example of why it's smart to start low. I might have used a different bullet than the Norma data, in fact I am almost certain that I did, which might be part of it.

Hi John,

Great to see your column and I'm happy to read your writing!

You've probably answered this 100x already (I just don't know where ;)):

1. How much of a velocity advantage does the 300 Wea. have over the 300 Win mag. given equal barrel lengths and pressures? I have a guesstimate of about 100fps, but I value your opinion more since I have no first hand experience with the 300 Wea.

1.b. To your knowledge, does this velocity advantage change with bullet weights. If so, how much of a difference have you observed?

2. What minimum barrel length would continue to give the 300 Wea. a velocity advantage over the 300 win mag and still be practical? For example, if I already have a 300 win mag with a 24.5" barrel, if I rechamber it to 300 Wea. and keep said 24.5" barrel, what velocity gain might I expect with diff. bullet weights vs. added muzzle blast, noise, recoil? (I'm not recoil sensitive), etc.

Thank so much for taking the time to answer question.

Muledeer,I've been thinking of rechambering a 30-06 ruger#1 to a 300 weatherby and was wondering if there are any forseeable problems I might or my gunsmith might encounter?

The only thing that's deterring me is the weatherby freebore.This was an accurate 30-06 and would like to maintain that level of accuracy.
How much does the freebore affect accuracy

Keep up the awesome work JB,I really enjoy your writings

I can easily match Wby 180gr factory ballistics (caveat: with no "apparent" signs of pressure) with, of all things Remington Nickel brass, 180gr TSXs and 80.1gr of RL22. And I can hit 3300 with 84gr of IMR 7828 and Norma Brass. The former is my go to round from hot to cold weather. jorge

Sorry not to get back to the latest questions sooner, but was gone huntin'.

Canadian Lefty, according to my calculations with case capacity, the .300 Weatherby should indeed get about 3.5% more muzzle velocity than the .300 Winchester, in equal barrel lengths at the same pressures. This means that if we can get 3100 out of the .300 Winchester in a 24" barrel, we can get around 3208 out of the .300 Weatherby in a .24" barrel.

Note that this does not mean with the same powder, but whatever powder gives top velocity in each case. Also, it wouldn't quite the same if the standard throating was changed in either round. For instance, you can get a little more out of a .300 Winchester in a longer magazine rifle, with a chamber throat longer than standard. But it still will never match a .300 Weatherby, everything else being equal.

This is also an approximate number, but you will be able to get about a 3.5% increase with any bullet weight.

SawDoctor,

The feasibility of rechambering would depend a little on barrel contour. It might not be truly practical in a #1A with it's light barrel, but would be no problem in a 1B.

In my experience freebore doesn't affect accuracy if the freebore is "tight," meaning just enough to allow a .308" bullet. We have three Weatherby rifles in the house, chambered for the .240, .257 and .300 Weatherby Magnums, and all are VERY accurate. So it would depend mostly on the reamer your gunsmith uses.

Thanks John for answering my question! I appreciate it and it makes my decision easier.

I thought you might be out hunting Hopefully, it was fun?!

Best regards,
CL

Thanks for asking. I got one of the best mule deer of my life, and the hunt was very interesting as well, with fine people. And the buck was fat as pig, which means great eating as well!

John
Are all of your Weatherby rifles Vangards?
What state did you hunt and will you post some photos the Mule Deer?
Thanks
Phil
Sorry JB, I was in to much of a rush.

Awesome!! I'm very happy for you! Hard to beat a super eating and trophy animal along with good people.

Congratulations!

labsandelk,

No, one of the Weatherbys my wife and I shoot is an Ultra Lightweight in .240 Wby. Magnum. It is very accurate, by the way, with a good trigger right out of the box.

I got the mule deer buck in Wyoming, but sorry, I won't post photos. If I did, then I'd be posting photos all the time on the Campfire!

Canadian Lefty,

Thanks! Sometimes we all get lucky....

I ran some factory 300 Weatherby ammo over the chronograph recently. Rifle is a pre64 M70 300H&H rechambered to 300 Weatherby,original 26" barrel.Very accurate rifle....the Federal 180 Nosler SB and the 180 Nosler Partition average about 3150.

The Weatherby factory 165 Nosler BT did 3413.I think this is a bit high,and suspect it is loaded pretty hot.

With these velocities,and the accuracy these loads give, I have not even bothered to handload for this rifle.

In watching a couple of friends develop handloads for their 300 RUM's I would say it is generally a faster cartridge than the Roy,but who cares. It also kicks more (to me),and if you can't get it done with a 180 gr bullet at 3150,stay home....Roy got it right in the 1940's(grin).

I, too, pretty much gave up handloading for the 300 Wby as the factory stuff always proved very good, accurate and fast. I most often shoot the 200 grain Nosler Partition. The only time I've bothered handloading for it (in recent history) is when I wanted to try something different (240 grain Woodleigh load).

I used to shoot a 300 Wby and its a very good cartridge and much prefer it to the RUMs that are too much of a good thing...but my true love is the 300 H&H and I can get almost Wby velocity with the 200 gr. bullets, but not the lighter bullets...however it is all that I will ever need...

I am also a big fan of the .300 H&H and have a nice walnut-stocked custom rifle on a Model 70 Classic action. It looks nice and shoots very well. It shoots 200 Partitions at 2900+ very well. Still a hard to beat round for general hunting....

I love the H&H but the Weatherby is just too easy for accurate factory ammo,and brass.My Weatherby is a rechambered H&H. I figure,long action, H&H or weatherby....what's the difference!

I have been a 300 WBY slut for years, having killed all but 3 of my elk with this cartridge. My initial intentions were to get a "500 yard elk rifle". Well,I have shot 10 or so since this decision and all have been under 100yds- go figure! I basically wore out the barrel in my Sako Finnbear and rebarreled it to 340 Wby. I figured it would be more of a good think. It's not, it's too big for practically anything BUT 500 yd elk! I may rebarrel it back to 300 again. With a 24" bofors barrel, I could easily get 3000 fps with various 200 grain bullets using H870- a filthy powder I might add! In this day and age, there are far better powders than this old dog! I had my best luck and still do with H4831 with the 165s. I never used any other weights in this rifle. I would get 3400 with the 165s. My Norma brass lasted an average of 11-12 reloads.

I built another one with a 28" barrel but broke the stock shortly after I started working loads up and have yet to fix it! I got 3700 out of factory 150 Hornady loads so I had to quit using factory ammo (no freebore in the chamber)I'm sure it's way over pressure. With exotic bullets- 140 and 150 grain OX bullets, I could get 3600 with reasonable pressure but decided it wasn't necessary with todays modern laser rangefinders and went back to the easier to shoot 165-168s. Yep, the 300 WBY with its magic radius shoulder is something to behold!

Great article

I load 180 grain Nosler Partitions to a velocity of 3100, according to both the Hornady and Sierra handbooks. I can't see the need for any other cartridge for hardly anything in big game.

Elk are supposed to be hard to kill. My one 6X6 was DRT with a shot through the lungs, which took out large segments of two ribs, BTW.

Wildebeeste and Zebra are supposed to be hard to kill. One shot each and they ran a few yards, falling over dead. Last month I killed a 5000 pound hippo with this load, one shot in the back of the skull from 50 yards, after wounding it with a .458 and running out of .458 ammo.

My rifle is super accurate. The barrel is 26" and it weighs under 8 pounds with scope and sling. After Hill Country Rifles accurized it, it consistently shoots under 1 MOA.

The barrel is stainless and the stock fiberglass. It has gotten rained on in Alaska with no effect. I would not hesitate to use this rifle with 200 or 220 grain bullets on Alaska bear, by the way, or on African Cape buffalo if that were legal.

It's the all-around big game rifle.

I enjoyed the Weatherby article, as well as practically everything JB has written. I am one of those people that has a custom long chambered 300 winnie, but still looks longingly at the Roy.

The article did nothing to help me get over this gun geek obsession. I would like to see another run down on all the 300 magnums even though I know it won't resolve which is the best.

I have to say that with the 300's my ranking follows the age of the cartridges some what with the Weatherby first, H&H second then Norma and my winchester a close third. This is only because I can't get my hands on a 300 Newton.

I have a custom .300 Roy built on a Sako action. It is a tack driver. I have had a .300 Wby of one description or another for about 35 years now. It is a great cartridge and I enjoyed John's article.

Mr. Barsness, Im considering buying a .300wby, i own a .300win that weighs 6lbs im looking at buying a vanguard, what kind of recoil can i expect with 180gr bullets??
Thanks for taking time to answer my questions!

I do certainly enjoy reading your articles in Rifle and Reloader both!

I'm not JB nor do I play him on TV, but if a 6 lb. 300 Win. doesn't bother you a full size Vanguard in 300 Wby. isn't going to either.

here is the weird part though, i let my dad borrow it, and i moved 900miles away and he hunts elk a lot more than i do, so after i moved a bought a brand new 300wsm in a browning aboltII, without the boss of course, and that thing really kicked, i dont know if i got a cherry in that .300win, or if the extra couple of inches really helped that much or what, but shooting that 300wsm was annoying, my dad shot it my brother in law and father in law all shot it and all of them agreed that the wsm's recoil was way worse than the 300win's was, so i bought a limbsaver and that helped some, but not enough i got rid of it. which is why i bring up the question about the recoil, the vanguard is a pound heavier than the wsm i had was,and is about the same weight as the 300win.

The stocks on the A-Bolts I've handled had narrow combs, no cheekpiece and what seemed like a good bit of drop. Did that gun tend to exhibit a lot of muzzle rise and chop you in the cheek when fired?

Even though it isn't my usual speed anymore (and doesn't get much respect on these boards) I get along pretty well with the Weatherby Monte Carlo and its forward downslope cheekpiece, at least up to the 300 Weatherby that I own.

oh yes the muzzle rise on the wsm was terrible! and yes it did nail you my dad got a bruise after three shells and he said he wouldnt ever shoot it again. im really intrested to try the wby style stock out, they pull up nice for me, my rem 788 in 22-250 has a custom stock on it with the monte style and i love it

Sounds like genuine frontier gibberish to me!

John{
Have you had ejector marks on the Norma cases on the first firing?
What about the same marks in Norma cases with maximum safe loads?
Thank you so much for a great article

Kuk

Nope, no ejector marks.

Glad you liked the article!

John,
As far as powders for the 180 to 200 gr. bullets, which would you say are the least temperature sensitive? Right now I am working with IMR-7828 SSC and 180 bullets, trying to work up a good load for my latest acquisition. The rifle seems to like this powder. I was wondering how this powder rated for temperature insensitivity, or if there were better choices.

Thanks for your help,
Steve

I haven't tested IMR7828 specifically, and haven't tested the SSC version at all. The IMR powders I have tested have shown anything from less than 2% velocity loss from 70 to 0 F., to around 5%, which is where point of impact sometimes starts changing at 100 yards--and that's the real problem, not 100 fps in velocity. If you rifle changes POI signficiantly with different powder charges when working up loads, then it just might change POI at lower temps as well.

When I am serious about making sure my rifle will maintain POI (and accuracy) in real cold, I use one of the Hodgdon Extreme powders. In the .300 Weatherby with 180's the Extreme to try would probably be H1000.

The Ramshot line is pretty good as well. TAC and Big Game seem to be about as good as the Extremes. Hunter and Magnum lose a little velocity in cold, but often not enough to change POI.

Thanks John! Great information. I really appreciate the help.

I hadn't thought about trying H1000. I'll have to look for some. I also found nearly a full pound of Magnum in my reloading box.....still not completely unpacked after my move. I will have to give it a try.

I have noticed the rifle seems to shoot the 7828 loads to nearly the same point of impact, even with a 2 gr. variation in load charges. I hope this means the rifle is not too tempermental. I've been very pleased with how well the rifle and cartridge shoots.

Steve

I want to buy some Norma .300 Wby cases and the three or four places I checked have them on backorder.

I want Norma because (a) they have more case capacity than Remington and (b) they cost less than Weatherby.

Anyone know where to get any, or....is there another alternative with the same case capacity? Midway or someone listed an off brand but I have no experience with it.

Is the off brand Nosler?

Try Cabela's, I purchased some Norma there a few months ago, on sale. I have yet to measure capacity or total weight between Norma and the Nosler, but the Nosler is good brass.

Allen

the off brand wasn't Nosler. It was some deal with three letters.

Cabela's was out of Norma. I ordered some on backorder.

I have about 75 cases, some Wby and some Norma, but a lot of that has been fired two to three times. Probably doesn't make any difference.

Two more questions:

1) What is the proper twist rate for a .300 Wby? 1 in 10?

2) What do you feel is an adequate weight for a 300 Wby - mine weighs 9.25 lbs with scope and feels heavy (probably due to the # of Kimbers in my safe!).

Thanks!

Probably 1-10. There is a tendency with many .300 Weatherby users to shoot heavier bullets, such as 190-200 grains pitzers. I don't disagree!

Th weight depends in your ablity to handle recoil, though obviously stock shape and the quality of the recoil pad has something to do this this too. Certainly as magnum rifles get heavier some people shoot them better. Mine weighs about 8-1/2 pounds with scope, and seems about right to me. I also confess that as I grow older the better a typical Weatherby Monte Carlo seems to handle recoil, and the less its shape offends me.

Just bumping this post to the top again.

Why doesn't it stay there like all the other "Ask John about..." columns?

Eventually all of them will drop down, as questions cease.

Then why does this one seem to be dropping sooner?

For instance, the thread about asking John Haviland questions about Fail-Safes hasn't had a post since last October, 3 1/2 months ago.

I dunno! Ask Rick.

Looks like it got "un" sticky...