Stock for old sporter Mauser

My nephew got a Mauser in the 7.7 Japanese caliber, and I am wondering where one can possibly find a custom stock for it. It is an older one, ribbed barrel, spoon bolt handle, removable cross bolt wedge. The stock is damaged on the fore end both side. I"ll post pics later. Is there someone who makes stocks for these old timers??

Hard to imagine a stranger cartridge for a custom rifle, unless it was really a Japanese military rifle to begin with, not a Mauser.

Looking forward to pictures.

Bruce

A mauser in 7.7 Arisaka ? I suppose it is possible,but more likely you are mistaken about either the cartridge or the rifle.

It sounds like an old M98 "guild" sporter if it has the spoon bolt, ribbed barrel and keyed fore end.

I would also bet it's a 7x57 and not a 7mm Jap.

I would think it is probably worth having someone see if the damage can be repaired instead of replacing the stock. I have seen some wooden stocks returned to service that were badly damaged, especially on older "classic" rifles. With older rifles I like to see the wood saved when it is possible.

Yes< better post a few close up photos.

If the safety is a huge knob that closes off the entire rear of the bolt, you have a 7.7 Japanese Arisaka - not a Mauser.

If it's truely a Mauser action - it'll be the first I've ever seen or heard of in 7.7Jap since I started playing with guns in the 60's.

.

hard to imagine anyone deliberately chambering a Mauser for the 7.7 Jap caliber.

Here's an Arisaka, with bolt open and the dust cover on, but you can see the shape of the rear of the bolt, which would never be mistaken for a Mauser. Maybe this will help clear up the confusion:

[Linked Image]

Japanese Type 99
http://www.wwiiguns.com/store/images/tanaka_arisaka_type99_8_wwii.jpg

Mauser 98
http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/1971/mauser98koukar98k2pc.jpg

Put together for better comparison:

Attached picture 11962-mauser98-type99compared.jpg

Attached picture 11962-mauser98-type99compared.jpg

The Japanese captured a lot of VZ 24 BRNO Mausers from the Chinese and re-issued them to their own troops (Navy I think)in 1937, but I believe they were all in 8X57.

Pictures appear to go from rifle002.jpg to rifle017.jpg

4, 5, and 6 show barrel and action parts to help ID the rifle.

My guess is the caliber is more likely 7.65 Mauser than 7.7 Japanese. Early caliber designations were even less standardized than now. If it is to be restored to firing condition a chamber cast would be needed to make sure what it is.

Bruce

if unsure of the caliber, get a chamber casting made. cheap and easy.

My nephew asked the previous owner about the caliber, and he had it slugged, and it is 7.7 Japanese

Slugging tells the caliber(barrel internal dimensions), but not the cartridge case. There are several other cartridges with the same internal barrel dimensions as the 7.7 Japanese.

You really need a chamber cast if the rifle is to be fired.

Bruce

Can you tell us the name on the barrel and the name on the side of the scope? The 7.7 proof mark seen on the bottom of the barrel is the BORE diameter at time of proof. Most likely one of the 8mm rounds. It looks like it was a fine rifle at one time but has seen better days, the cost for a professional restoration would most likely exceed the value of the rifle.

Originally Posted by bcp

Hard to imagine a stranger cartridge for a custom rifle, unless it was really a Japanese military rifle to begin with, not a Mauser.

Looking forward to pictures.

Bruce

Strange things happened in WWII. Dad had an Italian Carcano chambered in 6.5 Jap...not 6.5 Ital.

O

bcp is probably correct that it is a 7.65 Belgian/Argentine chamber. Below are the comparative cartridge dimensions shown in drawings scrounged from the Norma web site and edited. (I hope they don't mind.)
[Linked Image]

The cartridges are remarkably similar in head diameter, diameter at shoulder, and bullet diameter. A chamber casting may not immediately show differences, because the principal ones appear to be headspace and neck length. A chamber casting doesn't do well with headspace, and neck length in such an old rifle may not conform to current CIP standards.

The routine recommendation applies even more strongly here: the rifle should be checked by a competent gunsmith with appropriate headspace gauges before firing.

--Bob

Originally Posted by OUTCAST

Strange things happened in WWII. Dad had an Italian Carcano chambered in 6.5 Jap...not 6.5 Ital.

O

Just as a first guess - The rifle was one of the "Type I" Arisakas, made in Italy in the late 1930s for the Japanese Naval Marines. It was a typical Arisaka with a mauser-type box magazine, a two-piece buttstock, etc, but the action was a Carcano.

There are images of several Type I rifles (as in I for Italy, not the Roman numeral one) about half-way down this web page: http://oldrifles.com/japanese.htm

--Bob

Originally Posted by BullShooter

Originally Posted by OUTCAST

Strange things happened in WWII. Dad had an Italian Carcano chambered in 6.5 Jap...not 6.5 Ital.

O

Just as a first guess - The rifle was one of the "Type I" Arisakas, made in Italy in the late 1930s for the Japanese Naval Marines. It was a typical Arisaka with a mauser-type box magazine, a two-piece buttstock, etc, but the action was a Carcano.

There are images of several Type I rifles (as in I for Italy, not the Roman numeral one) about half-way down this web page: http://oldrifles.com/japanese.htm

--Bob

Bob, put me down as freaking impressed. That is my nominee for amazing firearms trivia factoid of the month.

I am constantly amazed at all the stuff people on this forum know.

Originally Posted by Steve_NO

Originally Posted by BullShooter

Originally Posted by OUTCAST

Strange things happened in WWII. Dad had an Italian Carcano chambered in 6.5 Jap...not 6.5 Ital.

O

Just as a first guess - The rifle was one of the "Type I" Arisakas, made in Italy in the late 1930s for the Japanese Naval Marines. It was a typical Arisaka with a mauser-type box magazine, a two-piece buttstock, etc, but the action was a Carcano.

There are images of several Type I rifles (as in I for Italy, not the Roman numeral one) about half-way down this web page: http://oldrifles.com/japanese.htm

--Bob

Bob, put me down as freaking impressed. That is my nominee for amazing firearms trivia factoid of the month.

I am constantly amazed at all the stuff people on this forum know.

Amen.

Sunshinegirl
None of the Mausers were ever chambered for the 7.7 Jap. There are a number of other calibers but not that one. No one would have re-chambered it in that caliber either (Not even the Japanese)
Take it to a real gunshop. They can check the chamber, do a casting. Trust us.

Originally Posted by BullShooter

Originally Posted by OUTCAST

Strange things happened in WWII. Dad had an Italian Carcano chambered in 6.5 Jap...not 6.5 Ital.

O

Just as a first guess - The rifle was one of the "Type I" Arisakas, made in Italy in the late 1930s for the Japanese Naval Marines. It was a typical Arisaka with a mauser-type box magazine, a two-piece buttstock, etc, but the action was a Carcano.

There are images of several Type I rifles (as in I for Italy, not the Roman numeral one) about half-way down this web page: http://oldrifles.com/japanese.htm

--Bob

Bul..,

Nope. The rifle was a Carcano made at the Terni arsonel. It was a 6.5 Carcano in every espect except it was in 6.5 Jap. Your photos are all of Arisakas. Dad's rifle was nothing like them.

O

Just as a general follow-up. The rifle had been restocked by a local gunsmith in cherry. The stock was full length with white cow horn tip cap, pistol grip cap and butt plate. Otherwise it was original military. The uncut barrell was 16 or 16.5 inches long. Someone told Dad it was a paratrooper carbine (who knows?).

No. Sadly I don't have picture or the gun itself. When I got out of service in 1970 he had traded it off. The only firearm he ever got rid of ... he sold it to the son of the gunsmith who did the stock work. I loved the thing (sorry action and all). And it started a life long love of Manlicher stocked rifle for me.

O

Outcast-
Thanks for the follow-up. I would have liked to have seen the rifle because it seems to have been an unusual and interesting piece. It's a shame it got away from you.

Here's a link to a story of another interesting Japanese Carcano rifle: A 6.5x50mm Japanese-Carcano Sporting Rifle.

Did the rifle retain the magazine? Do you recall whether it was the typical Mannlicher the type of magazine?

--Bob

Bul..,

It had the typical Carcano 5 shot en block clip. You shoved in from the top and, when empty, the clip fell out the bottom. It was a neat piece but it went to the son of the long dead gunsmith who re-did it. So, it's in the second best place . . . I guess.

O