I just got my Rifle MAR 09 No 243 Whats with the 8x57 MAGNUM story ? I have never heard of the 8x57 Mauser being called a Magnum ! Is it a typo and should have been called Mauser and someone stuffed up or What? Also can someone explain where the title " 243 Winchester THE LAST OF THE 6 MM 'S "[HANDLOADER NO 241 2006 ] comes from? I'm still confused !

I think the point the author is trying to make is that is the US factory ammo for the 8x57 is loaded for the M93 actions and not the M98 or other more modern actions.
The .243 Win is the only commercially successfully 6mm cartridge.

Haven't seen the article but the 196 gr roundnose bullet 8x57 load marketed by Sellier and Bellot and Privi Partizan (looks like Privi Partizan loads it for both)is a real humdinger.It's the hardest hitting load from that class of cartridge I've ever seen,regardless of caliber,and the only factory cartridge I ever use for deer.The trajectory is fine out to about 275 yards,then starts to drop off rapidly,but every deer I've seen hit with it (perhaps 20)reacted instantly and dropped within a couple of steps.I'd classify that as magnum like performance....pretty accurate in several different sporterized model 98s of different barrel lengths too.

Yes, it' re: the underloaded factory ammo in the US, and past misconceptions about the round. I've always liked the round myself, and hope to buy a 700 Classic one of these days. I only have a k98k that will stay unmussed. I noticed Sauer is producing their new autoloaders in 8x57, but I doubt it will sell, or be sold, in the US.

Tongue in check on Al's part I think. The earliest 8x57's were .318 bore, then Germany switched to .323; I believe these are the "J" and "JS" bores respectively, but I could be wrong. In Europe shooters understand this and don't put the larger round in the smaller bore, in the US the ammo companies seem to load .323's only and tone the loads down.

Some of us here call the 7x57 a "magnum" or "super magnum" also, still somewhat tongue in check but also to highlight that these and other "outdated" cartridges perform much, much better than many folks think.

I'd love to have an 8x57, but the bolt on all of them are on the wrong side.........

Tikka shows a left hand 8x57 on their website whether you can get them in the U.S. who knows.

E.R. Shaw will put one of their very good barrels on bolt actions and reblue the whole thing for about $250. If you have a LH Remington 700 they can put on a Remington contour barrel.

The "magnum" part was modern 56,000 PSI CIP loads for the 8x57. When loaded to that level it equals the .30-06 and in fact exceeds it with 200+ grain bullets.

Love the 8x57 loaded to it's full potential as the Europeans do and handloaders can it's every bit as good as the .30-06 with more frontal area for bigger holes. It is after all what the .30-06 was designed to duplicate.

gerrygoat and Mule Deer,

Yeah, I know you're both right, but you wouldn't believe how long my list of "I'd love to haves" is. Well, maybe you would...

I know I'd believe it!

The funny thing is, I've actually acquired a lot of my "wish list" firearms over the years. Some I keep forever, but some I use a year or three and sell. And some I sell and then buy again!

According to the article under discussion, the 8MM has about 10% less case capacity than the 30/06. Hard to see how it's going to outrun the 06 when loaded to the same pressure. Even more difficult to believe is that a bullet that is 0.015 inch wider is going to have a perceivable difference in the wound channel it creates, or in "killing power". That is the thickness of 8 of the pages the article was printed on.

Fred

It worked - using a "hype" phrase got us all talking about the 8mm Mauser - sheeeeesh.

How about a .30-'06 Magnum? <---humor

If you want a magnum 8mm, go with an 8X68S or 8X64, or even a Rem 8mm Mag or .326 WSM. Charlie Askins had a sh*tload (that would be the technical term) of 8mm magnums built on lefthand actions, sort of a double double I guess.

I will say the (insert smaller cartridge name here) Magnum article has been a gun scribe subject for quite a few years. I thought it had calmed down with the short and wide introductions, but evidently not.

jim

For you 8mm Mauser guys, I MAY have a score for you... one of my gunshops bought a bunch of stuff from someone's widow; among the booty was about 6 boxes of 8mm 150-gn Hornady SP's that they are selling for $10 a box.

I bought a box, in hopes of cooking up a mild plinking load for my .325 WSM. My first test was dismal- 4 MOA. Perhaps my twist is wrong for such a short bullet, or perhaps I just got unlucky. At any rate, if I can't find a decent load, I won't be buying another box. If anyone wants 'em, PM me and I'll hook you up.

-jeff

I had a friend that shot an 8 x 57 with some 196 or 200 gr bullet DWM made ammo, that is till he ran out of it. Bought a bunch of it while in Europe on Active Duty Air Force in the 1950's. I never thought much of the 8mm, but some do. I could live with one if it was all I had, but I rather have a 6.5 x 55 which I do shoot or ditto's for a 338. Then again if a drilling came my way so chambered, I would improve my German right quick. I think Blaser will sell you a barrel so chambered for the R-93.

No problem throwing 180's at 2700fps plus and 200's at 2600. It's a nifty cartridge that fits into the 'efficient' category.

I have a nice vintage JP Sauer sporter with a full length tapered hex barrel, solid rib, express sights plus scope in 8X57 thats a joy to shoot. 200gr at 2650 is some serious punch, maybe not a magnum but I'd like to hear the animals opinion. I also have its twin in 9X57. That one's effectiveness really overshadow's its statistics.

The 8x57 may not outrun the .30-06 but it does a pretty good job of hanging in there.



IMHO, there are no flies on the 8x57JS's capabilities and performance. The Germans really knew what they were doing when they designed the cartridge. I'm a big fan of the .30-06 and have three rifles chambered for it but there is absolutely nothing wrong with the 8x57JS when it is loaded to its true potential. It's a true classic cartridge.

Cheers!
-Bob F.

"It's a true classic cartridge."

My feeling as well. I'd be happy to hunt with one.

Interesting graff Bob. Kind of puts things into perspective doesn't it.

Yeah, I think it does. The ol' 8x57 is still a very fine cartridge.

I find the position of the shoulders of interest in the following photo. I think a lot of people don't realize that the shoulder on the 8x57 is further forward than on the 7x57.



-Bob F.

I am going to give the 8x57 a go this elk season (assuming I draw) using this recently acquired Walther Model B. The one on the right. The one on the left is its little 7x57 brother. First dance for me with the round. Al's write was a bit short on load data so what loads have you folks worked with using some of the newer bullets available?

I also consider the 8x57 a fine cartridge and in the same ballpark as the 30-06; and that's not a bad place to be. Never got around to trying any of the hotter 8x57 Euro-Loadings cause when I first got an 8x57 I also picked up a set of RCBS 8x57 dies from a widow selling off her late husband's reloading stuff. I always considered the cartridge to be a handloader's proposition due to all the bad publicity over the years about those anemic loads that the U.S. companies were turning out. I'm so happy with the handloads that I probably won't shell out the money for factory ammo. Heck; I don't even worry about getting 8x57 brass. If you don't mind the extra labor of cutting and trimming, 8x57 brass can be created from 30-06 brass with a Redding Form & Trim die, (Redding #83159 according to the box label). Better than half the 8x57 cases that I have around, loaded or not, have .30-06 headstamps. Never noticed any differences between 'em as far as accuracy or velocity are concerned.

I liked the article, but I prefer the +P designation to the "magnum" designation. At least one other company that I can think of uses "magnum" for high pressure loads, and I think it's confusing. +P is more descriptive.

JV

I've managed to acquire a couple of Brnos over the past few years. These are a couple of the want for a long time rifles. One , a 7 X 57, 21H I used exclusively two seasons ago. This past season I used the 22H, 8 X 57. Although in pretty decent condition I didn't consider them collectibles so had Ralf Martini change the bolt handles to Oberndorf style and install M-70 type safeties (Dakotas) on both of them. They took 2 and 3 deer respectively and the 8 gave me a 170 class typical whitetail along with 2 mule deer bucks this past season. They are both sweet and portable rifles. My Nosler manual provides pretty decent load data for both. I'll be looking for a different bullet for the 8 this year as I think I could get by with a bit less meat loss than the current 170 grain bullet caused. First on the list to try is the 200 NP. The 150 NP worked just fine in the 7.

Stocker,

If you ever get a chance to take pictures of your rifles, I'd sure like to see them. Thanks...Bill.

My experience has been that you don't really need to go to premium bullets with this cartridge,though I'm sure it wouldn't hurt anything if you did.Hornady makes a 195 gr .323 spitzer that I've used to good effect in both 8x57 and 8mm06.
Unfortunately Hornady discontinued their .323 150 gr. RN some years ago.At one time I had several boxes of those and they were extremely accurate out of several model 98 sporters.Worked very well on white tails too.It was a delight to shoot in either of two sporterized Persian Mauser carbines I own.

I am probably responsible.

The Mouser

http://my.voyager.net/3E/34/jhecksel/Mouser.htm

http://my.voyager.net/3E/34/jhecksel/pictures/Mouser/WheelerDealer.jpg

http://my.voyager.net/3E/34/jhecksel/pictures/Mouser/Edwmouser.jpg

steve1: Probably not as far as killing deer goes. The 170 Hornadys I used caused severe blood shotting of the meat throughout the shoulders from rib/lung hits and am hoping to reduce that a bit. Also will be carrying the rifle for moose and elk in grizzly habitat so think I may be better served overall with a different bullet. Unless another wanted for a long time rifle should come along before next season. Gotta keep my options open, you see.

Funny story!

I like the 8x57, took a deer with one at 175 yds a few years ago.

I like it!

Stocker, I shoot the 200gr NP in mine and while it maybe overkill it always expands nicely up front and is very accurate out of my JP Sauer. Start at 46.5 gr of H4350 and work up. Mine runs 2650 at 50.0gr but if you get to 2575 or so with good accuracy the animals will never know and your rifle may love you.

Scott

Stocker,
Can't speak to the 170,I've only ever even loaded ten or twelve of them.I suspect it may be a softer bullet though,as that's the typical weight for the classically underloaded commercial 8mms.The longest shot I've ever taken at a deer was a one shot kill on a large doe at just over 400 yds. along a power line,with the Hornady 150 RN.Excellent performance,not excessive damage.Same same on a number of deer much closer in.Every deer I've ever shot or seen shot with the Hornady 195 Spire point or the commercial 196 was a pass through,regardless of range,and not excessive meat damage.
I killed a very large northern Alberta whitetail with the 195 out of my 8mm06 at just under 100 yds,he was 300 + pounds,DRT. Based on that performance,I wouldn't be overly skittish on taking on an elk with it .That being said,there's nothing wrong with going with premium bullets at any time,as I stated originally.You just might find yourself pleasantly surprised by those 8mm 195-196 gr. bullets in max loads.An 8mm06 with a 195 is not much different than a 338/06 with a 200 or so grain bullet,and few think twice about that for Elk.A heavilly loaded 8x57 with one of those bullets out to 300 yds or a bit less wouldn't scare me,as long as I had practiced enough to be sure of the trajectory.....I'd be downright confident out to about 250 yds.based on my experience.

For the case capacity question, one needs to remember that the same pressure on a larger surface area equals more speed. This is the majority reason for why the 8x57 will push 200 and 220's as fast and faster than the .30-06. Powder exansion ratios and burn rates too. The .30x57 would be slightly slower in all bullet weights and the 8mm-06 should be slightly faster.

Mr. Faucett's graph shows this result for modern CIP 8x57 and .30-06 loadings.