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Thanks, John!

Great article!

I would add that a .338 Win Mag is adequate buffalo and bison medicine. I used the 225 gr. Swift A-frame on my bison hunt last fall with outstanding performance. I am looking at a water buffalo hunt as well and that will definitely be the rifle and bullet I will take! Here is a link to the video and some photos of the bison hunt on the Crow Reservation.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AawnlLeVlEg

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b9da34b3127ccec68a76c7799600000040O00BatnDVu5cMQe3nws/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b9da34b3127ccec68baa3b594800000040O00BatnDVu5cMQe3nws/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

John,

Who did you hunt with in Texas?

Since I'm headed "down range" for the fall with the Air Force, I'll miss this fall's hunting season, and may try to sneak in a hunt in Texas before I go.

Yeah, the .338 is adequate, where legal. Unfortunately it isn't legal in almost all of Africa, but I do know a few hunters who have used it on Cape buffalo anyway with uniformly good results.

it would seem to me that buffalo, not being critical here, was shot just a little high.
They are tough creatures to knock down in my opinion.
I took in november a .338winmag with 225grain barnes bullets, but opted for a .375H&H with a speer gran slam. Hit that sucker square and blew the top of the heart out, but still took him a while to stop using oxygen.
I did see a .338 used on a couple of them and it did work, as well as a .300H&H

Which buffalo are you talking about?

I was refering to this one.
http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b9da34...3D550/ry%3D400/

Why did Speer dicontinue their African Grand Slam? I believe it had a tungsten core. The one for the 458 was nice because it was shorter and you could get more powder in the case.

...not to steal the thread, but AGS were "too expensive" to manufacture, so says Speer.
I squireled away a hundred of them for my .458WM. The solids work GREAT on ele's, and the SP do a number on buffalo.

TSIBINDI

Thanks for the info TSIBINDI!

I have used the 338 win. with 300 gr. Woodleighs on Cape buffalo and the 9.3x62 with 286 Noslers, 300 gr. Swifts and 320 Woodleighs on them also..They are about equal in killing power IMO and they worked but they do not kill as fast as say a 458 Lott or even the 375 H&H in my experience...I can say the same for the 8x57, 30-06, 7x57 or .308 in that they do not put the big bulls down as fast as the 338..

Personally I think the 338 is a tad light for buffalo and I prefer a .375 or better yet the 40 calibers..I think proper buffalo caliber start at the 416s and go up..Not to say that I wouldn't hunt them with the lesser calibers, I will, but I don't recommend it.

Typically in buffalo hunting you shoot him in the heart/lung area and he turns to run and you give him another one up the keyster, and he goes 50 to 150 yards and dies. With the bigger bores it is usually closer the the 50 and witht the smaller calibers it is usually the 150, that is the norm IMO..

The thing is what if gets upset with your treatment of him and he comes your way to make a issue of it, the 50 yard death might just be to your benefit..I know that every time a buffalo has charged me I always swear that I will use a bigger rifle nest time and the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

I've also used a .338 Win with the 300 gr. Woodleigh on Asiatic Buffalo, and just as Ray states, I noticed no difference at at between it and my beloved 9.3x62. That said, I simply prefer the 9.3 or .375.

I've always liked the .416s and .458s, but I also prefer lighter weapons that a fella can pack around all day and use on a variety of game (perhaps at slightly longer ranges). Thus, I don't use the .40+ calibers much these days. Hell, an 8 1/2 pound .458 is just a bit too much fun for this ol'Montanan!

After my last buffalo hunt a few weeks ago with my .375, I have to agree with Ray. I'm going to acquire a .458 Win and load it up for next year. Bigger is better when it comes to buffalo.

So I have never been able to subscribe successfully - is there an alternative way to see the article?

There is no subscription--everybody on the Campfire should get it. PM me your e-mail address and I'll send you a copy.

No consideration for a .458 Lott? I don't shoot big bores, nor am I able to hunt African game. My interest is academic, but this is an interesting situation.

The buffalo is a tough animal that requires both bullet penetration and expansion, meaning that the right bullet must be traveling at the right speed for successful terminal performance. The .458 Win has had a history of lacking velocity, and I'm wondering what the right combination might be here. Seems that the Lott would come closer to giving the required results.

There's also the argument that a hunter shouldn't be using a stopping gun, which would suggest a lighter caliber than .458, but I'll leave that one to the experienced.

BTW, I didn't get the article either, so I don't know what arguments JB may have proffered.

That tungsten cored bullet is still available, or was last summer. It's being manufactured in the states by a couple of guys whose names escape me, but you can contact Larry at Superior Ammo in Sturgis, SD and he will give you the info. He loads the round. They cost five bucks apiece. I bought about 75 Speers for my .375. I shot one through an inch of tempered steel at a hundred yards, so they have other uses besides hunting DG.

I have 25 of the AGS if you are interested?

I have 25 AGS in 458 if you are interested. sedn me an email or PM

John,
I remember reading an article on Cape Buffalo when I was a kid. This really got me intrigued & ever since then I wanted to harvest one of these beautiful animals. My question is this. In the article they mentioned using a .460 Capstick Rifle. Im somewhat familiar w/ the .470 Capstick but never heard anything again about the .460. Could this have been a major misprint? It was 23 years ago. Any info about this round would be appreciated. Thanks!

It had to be a misprint. The only Capstick round I've ever heard of was the .470.

What are your opinions on the .470 Capstick?

Mostly a big shrug. No doubt it's very effective, but the recoil has to be miserable even in a 10-pound rifle. I have never fired a .470 Capstick, but have shot a bunch of big-bore rounds up to a wildcat .577 that got 2500+ with a 570-grain bullet. I am not particularly recoil-sensitive but didn't like that one much, or a 9-pound .470 Nitro-Express double.

It might be the world's greatest elephant round. I don't know as I have never shot an elephant and don't plan on it, either.

Personally I am a big fan of the .416's or other "lower .40's," partly because they don't kick all that bad even in a 9-ppund rifle, and partly because they are more versatile than the .45+ rounds. If I saw a big kudu while carrying a .416 I would have no hestitation in shooting out to 250-300 yards, but with a .458 or .470 using typical 500-graiun roundnoses that would an iffy shot.

John,
Sounds like you need a .460 in your rack? There is nothing you wont shoot, with one of these. A 350gn TSX would be a good match on top with a 550gn Woodleigh under that for any surprises that come along.

JW,

I have thought about a .460, but just this year I went on a hunt with an African PH who swore that the .378 Wby. kills even better than the .460 on anything smaller than elephant and maybe hippo. What's your experience with the .378?

I have reviewed 2 of them but not used them in the field. There arn't enough animals in Australia than really require that level of power.

On the animals I did shoot with the big 2, I did prefer the .460 over the 3x .416 Weatherby's and 1x .416 Remington I owned (and the .458's) as when they were maxed out, that was a light/middle coasting along load for the same weights in the .460.

When I immigrated here, I sold off all the .416's and .458's and kept the .460 because I can load it mild with a large range of bullets from 300 to 400 grains and then step up the pace for any dangerous game the rifle would be used on.

The heaviest weight I have used on game was the 550gn Woodleigh. It is quite a hammer and gels well with the long neck in the .460 case.

There are several spire point bullets under 400 grains that suffice for larger US fauna and plains game. Can send you a list of what I tried if you need it?

I had the same opinion of the 400gn Barnes X as Shoemaker, it was a great bullet and a favorite until discontinued. The 350gn would do as well for US fauna and plains game and then the heavier 450 + 500gn TSX's, the 500 A-Frame and 550gn Woodleigh depending on how tough the game is.

The 500gn Hornady (which was too soft) is cheap and shoots to the same point as the Swift A-Frame in my rifle and that bullet over 123gn of IMR 4350 reaches the original factory specs of 2700fps and all the Foot pounds you will ever need. Recoil is terrible, but makes a great photograph when someone else shoots the rifle.

As to the PH, I would seek qualification on the comments as bullets used, number of kills, angle of shots, you know the rest.

Teh advantage of the .416's is the same as the .375 over the .416's...shootability for the average rifleman. Unfortunatley, it is a factor.

John

I did ask the PH about the number of kills, and on what. He was prety familiar with the .416 as his boss (the guy who owned the safari company) used one. He himself had used the .378 a lot on buffalo and some on lion, and said it killed those animals quicker than the .460 in his opinion. But he was a little vague about the bullets used, since he actually isn't a rifle loony, and it may be his boss was using solids in the .460 and he was using whatever expanding bullet Weatherby loads in the .378 (along with solids to back them up on buffalo) and that may have been the difference.

Although the .458 Win is a suitable buffalo rifle, I have sincere doubts about its powder capacity and its ability to down elephants unless one uses a hot handload, and that in itself can create problems..This is an age old arguement that will never be settled as long as folks have 458 Winchesters...I would opt of a loaded down to 2200 FPS 458 Lott personally...

That said, I am firmly entrenched with the 40 calibers for big ugly brutes like elaphant, hippo and Buffalo..They are big enough,have ample velocity, good sectional density, shoot flat enough, don't shake loose my bicuspids and they have a little power to spare. I like the 404 Jefferys, 416 Rem or Ruger, and the 450-400s in a double..There is no animal that I would feel undergunned with any of these calibers.

My opinnion only, and won't argue with anyone over a different choice as long as its reasonable.

Shootability and powder capacity are two mutually exclusive arguments, as are elephant comparisons on a buffalo thread.

There is no argument to win when the .458 owner has discovered the modern powders and bullets that make the .458 everything is was not a half century ago.