representing several of the makers, I've defended some suits based on "blowups".....yet to see one that wasn't an ammunition issue or a barrel obstruction, in my personal experience. Small sample, though.
I wasn't there when it happened, but a guy I know blew up a 700 action at the private range of a company here in Montana.
This guy was (and maybe still is) very fond of hot handloading. He had a varmint rifle made on a 700 action for some super-super wildcat he invented, and after a few hundred rounds it blew up one day while he was testing some loads. The scope was blown off the top of the action and headed backwards, luckily just past his ear, and hit the side of a steel building about 30 feet behind him. The dent it still there.
It's possible that part of the problem might have been an eroded throat (which tends to make pressures higher and erratic), but it may have just been metal fatigue. The best modern actions and steels will hold together basically indefinitely when loads are kept to under 65,000 psi, but if we abuse the action by constantly firing loads in the 70,000+ range, then bad things can happen.
Mr. keith; I'm not sure if you would consider this a modern action or not, but it was a Browning B78 in .22-250 before this happened when a .250-3000 cartridge was fired in it.
In the 2nd photo one can see the threads were wrecked in the action, but interestingly not on the barrel, it looked fine.
The chap never found all of the hammer, the extractor went south as well and while the cocking lever was broken it was still there.
I can't for the life of me recall what shape the butt stock was in, but I believe the fore end was cracked.
Remarkably the chap was OK which we all thought was amazing.
I wasn't there for it but a range I used to use north of Houston had a (IIRC) Sako 25-06 blown to pieces on a "plaque" on the wall due to a 308 Win being let off. It was not pretty...
I was visiting a gunsmith friend who showed me a Ruger No. 1 .25-06 that some guy shot a .308 in. Outside of cracking the forend, it didn't visibly damage the gun, which I found pretty amazing.
Mr. keith; I'm not sure if you would consider this a modern action or not, but it was a Browning B78 in .22-250 before this happened when a .250-3000 cartridge was fired in it.
In the 2nd photo one can see the threads were wrecked in the action, but interestingly not on the barrel, it looked fine.
The chap never found all of the hammer, the extractor went south as well and while the cocking lever was broken it was still there.
I can't for the life of me recall what shape the butt stock was in, but I believe the fore end was cracked.
Remarkably the chap was OK which we all thought was amazing.
All the best to you in 2010.
Dwayne
Shame what was done to that B78, they are out of production now. That's the first time I've ever heard of a high wall coming unglued.
Mr. tex_n_cal; Yes it's the only one I've run across as well.
A good friend had one in a .25-06 that I shot and played with quite a lot and I really liked it.
I don't have photos of it, but I did take apart a 1950's vintage Husqvarna in .270 that had gone sideways as well. I was only able to salvage the safety and the bolt shroud off of that wreck. It was something to see as well.
In that instance the chap doesn't know what took place to this day, but suspected it was a faulty handload.
That was a shame too, as I have a soft spot for the older 98 type Huskys.
People often refer to "Metal Fatigue" in firearms. Has anyone had the damage evaluated by someone that knows what they are talking about?. This is a scary thing to people such as myself that shoot the older ones, some over 100 years. Take Care!
Personally, I have not ever heard of a Remington, Savage, Ruger, Model 70 Winchester ACTION blown up.
A couple mo's before Dave Gentry passed, I was in his shop passing the afternoon and talking actions. He was a collector of blown actions and had a real interest in how they handle escaping gas, etc. (He had an experimental mind and made his own Mauser 98 actions).
While there, he showed me the latest that was sent to him for his collection, an M700 in, IIRC, 300 RUM. Apparently some factory ammo was accidentally loaded too hot and released for sale... the action blew and seriously wounded the shooter, nearly killing him.
Dave told me the two actions he thinks that handle escaping gas best are the Mauser 98 and Savage 110, as well as the Wby Mk V, with the Savage being the strongest, safest action out there. Go figure.
Mr. keith; I'm not sure if you would consider this a modern action or not, but it was a Browning B78 in .22-250 before this happened when a .250-3000 cartridge was fired in it.
In the 2nd photo one can see the threads were wrecked in the action, but interestingly not on the barrel, it looked fine.
The chap never found all of the hammer, the extractor went south as well and while the cocking lever was broken it was still there.
I can't for the life of me recall what shape the butt stock was in, but I believe the fore end was cracked.
Remarkably the chap was OK which we all thought was amazing.
All the best to you in 2010.
Dwayne
I'm curious as to how he got the round chambered...
A guy I stalked with had a Tikka 6.5x55 literally "detonate" when he pulled the trigger. The wooden stock was in bits, the bottom metal and magazine (actually plastic) where destroyed, the action bulged, and the bolt had a lug sheer off..I didn't actually see it happen, but just afterwards, I took the guy down to meet an ambulance, and then saw the mess his face was in when I visted him in hospital later....
IIRC it was a little "experiment" (aka "hey hold my beer and watch this ) using a pistol powder in a rifle case, a vice and a long string on the trigger.
I wasn't there, but I have a part of the receiver,and my buddy found the barrel about 75 yards from the firing line. The rifle was a 338 Lapua, Nesika action. cause was a major mess up of powders. Seems a boat load of Unique or whatever the guy used for fire forming cases got full loaded behind a 250 grain bullet. Touched it off, and things when " BOOM"!! barrel was split, receiver top was busted, bolt held IIRC.... Cat
Speaking of blown up actions- whatever happened to the report, here on the 'Fire several months ago, about a Wby MkV blowing up and seriously injuring the shooter? Have neither seen nor heard anything about such an incident actually happening.
representing several of the makers, I've defended some suits based on "blowups".....yet to see one that wasn't an ammunition issue or a barrel obstruction, in my personal experience. Small sample, though.
There were the Sako SS rifles with a batch of barrels with the sulpher that didn't "mix" entirely with the molten steel--of course, this happened at the foundry, and was kind've out of Sako's hands. But the photos of two different rifles that came apart were as about as catastrophic rifle blow-ups as I have seen.
Guy I used to work with was working up some .270's for his Remington pump, testing loads at an out-the-shop-window range he had set up. First shot blew the rifle to smithereens, he wasn't hurt, but glad he had eye and ear protection. When he stopped shaking and started picking up pieces he noticed his reloading manual was open to .270 Weatherby, not .270 Winchester. He wasn't sure if he'd just inadvertently opened it there or not. He sort of suspected that a breeze through the open window had flipped a page on him and he didn't catch it.
I saw the nose of a Rem. 700 bolt in .308 Win. blown off.
What was so strange, the shooter said this was the second one he had to do this. Actually, the first, because the bolt was the replacement Rem. fitted after the first blew off.
He said he didn't know why it happened. I would suspect the loads.
I was given a Rem 7400 in 270 recently with the action in about 10 pieces in a sandwich bag. The product of a mislabled powder overload. Everything blew out the bottom and the shooter was unharmed. Due to cracks and mangled metal, the only salvagable part was the recoil pad.
Seems to be a common theme, so far. No one's been seriously injured. Says something, at least, for the design of the rifles.
Modern steels are amazingly elastic. It would be interesting to know peak pressures that were exerted to cause these catastrophic failures. One would imagine they are in excess of 100 kpsi.
The only one I've seen was a Ruger M77 MkII lightweight in .270 Win that was fired with a .308 Win round in the chamber. The bullet apparently exited the barrel at some incredible velocity. The gas vented into the magazine well, expanded the magazine box sideways, and split the walnut stock into pieces. The bolt could not be hammered open, but the barreled action appeared otherwise intact. The shooter was not wearing eye protection, and got some "stuff" in his eye. If he were wearing proper glasses, he would have been uninjured.
I have heard of alot of firearms blowing up,but most of them were operator error.Either the wrong powder/barrel obstruction or even ice in the barrel formed from rain.
As an example,there were 45-70 destruction test which is rated at normally,43,500 PSI MAP for the Marlin,also tested was the Winchester Big Bore action(Not the AE which is weaker) and they started falling apart in the 62-65,000 PSI range with repeated firing testing for the use of the 454 Casull at 65,000 PSI.
None blew up,just started mangling the action to where they could not cycle anymore rounds.Many reports using AA #7 in place of RX-7 have been above 83,000 PSI locking everything up but not blowing anything up and after one shot,they were okay according to gunsmith who checked them out..
I can only imagine what it would take to blow a bolt action apart in one round.Seems it would have to take a beating from multiple rounds to give way and from operator error,not the firearm.
I have seen a lot of pictures, never really seen ond go in anyones arms....Have had a sticky bolt, locked up bolt, blown primer, thats about it...but you put 60 grs. of Bullseye in your 30-06 as opposed to H4831 and you will get some fireworks..
I have done some tests to blow up guns in a tire..couldn't blow up a Jap Arisaka no matter what I tried...hard to blow up a Mauser of any kind, they just puff of like a baloon and maybe split at some point, but as intended by Paul Mauser they do not fragment..A M-70 Win. will come apart like a hand granade and fragment all to hell, but it takes and awesome dumb load to blow one up.
Not present, but saw the results. In no particular order: An Enfield jungle carbine w/shattered barrel, from the front of the chamber forward. Destroyed the stock and part of the shooter's left hand. WWII bring back, no problems for many years, until the guy had it D/Td, scoped, reblued, new wood. Owner had no idea why, it just went poof in buck season! He had fired a box or two of factory ammo through it, to zero the scope and for practice, with zero issues.
Ruger M77V in 220 Swift at the next range over. Blew parts out of the bolt, injuring two people. IIRC, part of the extractor was blown out and hit someone behind the shooter; Shooter suffered severe lacerations to his hand.
Browning Citori at our club's trap range. One barrel exploded ahead of chamber, destroying the Citori. Shooter claims he did nothing wrong, Browning refused to hear about it, because shooter was using AA reloads, according to him?
Consensus of opinion at the time, was that the guy was an idiot and had done something stupid, but no one could agree on what he'd done? He claimed to be innocent of any wrong doing.
I blew the extractor off'n a Savage action once, but it was my own fault.
Monkeying with a 60gr Partition load in a .224 wildcat, probably far too short of an OAL, for starters (they're stubby little bastards)? Primer blew, shouldn't have tried to squeak one more load cycle from that brass. Extractor easily reassembled, found out the gas escape routing is very good on the Savage 110 action.
Does a Remmy 760 in 30-06 count as a modern action?
My Uncle has one hanging in his basement that looks like an M-80 went off inside a tuna can. It put him in the hospital for a few days and inspired a conversion to the "cult of the bolt action".
The cause of the failure was never explained. But the rifle has hung, for over forty years, not far from the reloading bench as a constant reminder towards vigilance.
I saw a 30-06 in a 98 Mauser which the owner thought was an 8mm Mauser. I can imagine the pressure.
It wasn't a visually a catastrophic event, but just...well, messed up. It's been a long time. I think the bottom metal was forced outward, but not out, and the wood around the action was bulged. The bolt was loose in the action as I remember it. Probably the action stretched a bit.
This is all on memory, so it might be wrong on some details. It was ruined, but didn't fail in a damaging sort of way, which says a lot about 98 Mauser actions.
I dont' know if that's a "modern" action or not. I have a 96 Spanish Mauser that's been rebored to a ".308" (stamped on the rifle.) I keep hearing it's going to blow up in my face, but it hasn't so far. I shoot 7.62 ammo in it, not the higher-pressure .308 commercial stuff. It doesn't have the third panic lug, naturally.
The only one I've seen was a Ruger M77 MkII lightweight in .270 Win that was fired with a .308 Win round in the chamber. The bullet apparently exited the barrel at some incredible velocity. The gas vented into the magazine well, expanded the magazine box sideways, and split the walnut stock into pieces. The bolt could not be hammered open, but the barreled action appeared otherwise intact. The shooter was not wearing eye protection, and got some "stuff" in his eye. If he were wearing proper glasses, he would have been uninjured.
I was impressed how well the Ruger held up.
Sounds just like the Ruger 77VT in .204 that I lost. Ruger and Hornady never did tell me the outcome, other than 'an over-pressure situation'.... Ruger did replace the rifle. Don
A friend blew a FN Mauser action up by putting a 150 grain bullet on top of a hot load for 100 grain bullets in a 270. This one blew gas down thru the mag box bending the floorplate out and damaged the bolt face. He gave me the action and I put a new bolt in it and otherwise rebuilt it into an excellent 35 Whelen.
I read an article of a gun blow-up in the 2010 Gun Digest last night. Guy accidentally reloaded his 30-06 with a pistol powder, HS-6 instead of 4350. Blew the rifle all to bits. The guy wrote the article as a sort of public service announcement on being careful at the loading bench.
Felt bad for the guy, as the rifle had been handed down to him from his Dad. Making a mistake sucks. Losing an heirloom like that had to really hurt. He reported no lasting injuries but was cut up some.
I was behind the firing line @ WTBN/Quantico during the '93 inter-service high-power matches when an Army reserve Captain's M700/300 wm let go. The right side of the receiver cracked and went out to the right, and the magwell expanded and blew the mag block out the bottom. It was a wood stock, which splintered catastrophic and fortunately he was wearing gloves that helped to reduce injury to just a very stingy/numb hand and wrist. The scope separated from the mounts and went about 30' vertical, right through my fov.... I was looking through a huge Unertl spotting scope watching vapor trails of our guys' bullets drop into the target from near our gunsmith truck at the back above the line-this was the beginning of the 1000 yard match. I was a team armorer for the USMC rifle team at that time, and we learned the malfunction for a report....he had loaded his own ammo too hot. When his rifle kaboomed...it was like a couple sticks of dynamite. Everyone stopped firing immediately and looked. The shooter initially laid right on top of his rifle and I thought he was seriously injured but he was mostly unscathed and God was his champion.
I have seen a whole bunch of blow-ups and semi-blowups. In most cases, the cause was a handloading mistake. Here's a partial list. Brno ZG47 - Apparently fatigued. Receiver ring split with factory load. Browning A-bolt- Reloader 15 instead of 19, wrecked Remington 700-4227 instead of 4320. Reparable and back in service Savage 110- Red Dot instead of 4831. Wrecked. Savage 99- Double charge of unique in a cast bullet load. Wrecked. Ruger 77- Same as the Remington 700 above (they were buddies using the same ammo loaded by a third former friend). A lot of parts damaged or missing but repaired and back in service. Colt Sauer- 7x57 in a 270. Wrecked. Remington 700- 308 Norma in a 7STW. Repaired and back in service. Browning BLR- Repeated hot loads set lugs back to where the rifle would no longer fire. Wrecked. The Savage 110 on the list was fired with 58 grains of Red Dot behind a 180 Sierra in a 30/06. The owner had bought a bunch of reloading stuff at a garage sale and, among his haul, was a 4831 can full of Red Dot. Amazingly, the rifle held together and the shooter was unhurt. The receiver ring was actually expanded by about fifteen thou. GD
No but I've seen a handgun blow up is the closest I've come. A lady came into the gunshop/range and bought a .38 Taurus along with 2 boxes of factory ammo. Walked outside to shoot and on the first shot it blew out the cylinder and bent the top strap.
Here's one with a serious injury. I'm a small town physician. Just recently I had a guy come into our ER after having blown up his Model 700 .300 SAUM. He had several facial wounds. A piece of the bolt face entered his R cheek and went deep. How do I know it was the bolt face? He coughed it out while I was examining him. It went through his face and sinuses and down into the airway. It looked and acted just like a gunshot wound to the face. I couldn't get the bleeding under control and had to send him emergently to a trauma center. He needed blood transusions and eventually had to have a branch of the carotid artery tied off.
He was shooting some handloads his uncle gave him. I talked to the sheriff's investigator later. There was no evidence of barrel obstruction. The action was in pieces, the scope was broken in half, and the stock was in 3 pieces.
We have a sako 243 we use in our hunter safety classes both for showing the lands and groves in a barrel and as an aid for urging caution in reloading.
Seems the guy got distracted and double charged when he was reloading. The only damage to the shooter was to his drawers.
Action was destroyed. Loopie scope was bent. Barrel was ok. tom
BTW I don't reload for others, and I don't shoot other peoples reloads. If I get reloads in a trade I break them down and dump the powder.
Several years ago,my Father in Law was shooting crows with a 12 gauge pump shotgun he'd bought new several years prior.He was shooting store bought shells and had shot a good many of them when the gun exploded.he miraculously was uninjured except for a small cut or two on his right hand that required no more than a bandaide at the most,if even that.We were able to find and recover only 36 pieces of the gun that day and he found a few more in days to come.Every body that has seen this gun or what was left of it has said it was a true miracle he had a face left or was even alive.He's still got whats left of the gun,and refused to contacted the gun maker or the ammo manufacturer,he says he's glad to be alive with all his eyes and ears and all,let it go.I know my self this was factory gun and ammo.This isn't a rifle story,but when I think about this I'm still amazed he still with us.
"Seems the guy got distracted and double charged when he was reloading."
What load for a 243 allows you to double charge and not overflow the case? Never seen a less than 50% filled load, unless it was a reduced load or lead bullet load? I have seen many PISTOL rounds with fast powder that are less than 50% fill.
I would have to ask one of the guys I teach with. He knows the guy. I got the impression that he was using a very hot powder, but I have no idea what. The action is in pieces and the barrel is intact. tom
No blow up but it sure is easy to make mistakes. Having both a Mini 30 and Mini 14, I thought I had the Mini 14 but had the 30. I chambered and fired a .223 in the Mini 30. The case fireformed to the 7.62x39 chamber and ruptured of course. Other than a puff of smoke and fire no harm to me nor rifle. So a caution is extended to all with similar rifles and rounds which is probably most of us. Plateau Hunter
I never saw the rifle afterwards, but a few years ago, a friend of mine had a Chinese made M1A blow up on him. He said he sent it in to a lab somewhere, and they told him the bolt steel was too soft and finally let go (he had shot it quite a bit).
Apparently the stock was split, the bolt was lodged in the rear of the receiver, and the back end of the receiver holding together is the only reason he is walking around today. All he got was a few bits of brass in his arm and one or two in his face.
Well there use to be a guy that came in to a gun shop that I use to frequent. Gee's its thirty years ago, and every couple of months he would bring in a rifle for the gunsmith to fix. Every single one was due to some kind of over load. Some people should not handload anything. And others should find some other hobby. Wrecked at least 6 or 7 rifles all good ones too. I remember one H+K 93 I think in 223 or something of that nature, the rifle was a mess, asked if smith could get the stuck case out! That shop is long gone, spent a good bit of my youth there. I learned with a loose primer pocket. It turned out that the brass 300 Weatherby was a soft lot. A friend a the time had a pressure sensing equipment. It gave me the willies there for a bit so much so I stopped shooting the rilfe and when to something else. That 300 sat in the case for 31 years before I sold it. I like my hands eyes and fingers. No need for any of it, but people do for some reason.
Mr. keith; I'm not sure if you would consider this a modern action or not, but it was a Browning B78 in .22-250 before this happened when a .250-3000 cartridge was fired in it.
In the 2nd photo one can see the threads were wrecked in the action, but interestingly not on the barrel, it looked fine.
The chap never found all of the hammer, the extractor went south as well and while the cocking lever was broken it was still there.
I can't for the life of me recall what shape the butt stock was in, but I believe the fore end was cracked.
Remarkably the chap was OK which we all thought was amazing.
All the best to you in 2010.
Dwayne
Shame what was done to that B78, they are out of production now. That's the first time I've ever heard of a high wall coming unglued.
Hi Tex,
They are making a run of them now. Look on the Browning website under SHOT SHOW specials.
I have seen a lot of pictures, never really seen ond go in anyones arms....Have had a sticky bolt, locked up bolt, blown primer, thats about it...but you put 60 grs. of Bullseye in your 30-06 as opposed to H4831 and you will get some fireworks..
I have done some tests to blow up guns in a tire..couldn't blow up a Jap Arisaka no matter what I tried...hard to blow up a Mauser of any kind, they just puff of like a baloon and maybe split at some point, but as intended by Paul Mauser they do not fragment..A M-70 Win. will come apart like a hand granade and fragment all to hell, but it takes and awesome dumb load to blow one up.
P. O. Ackley found the same to be true with the JAP Arisaka's. He said they were the strongest actions he had ever tested.
Saw a Browning 81 that let go after a fellow loaded it full of Bullseye. Split the action at the threads, barrel went downrange, bolt went back and hit him in the cheek and penetrated the skin and the docs removed it from the back of his neck. Lucky guy to be alive. dan
I've never been present for one and I'd just as soon pass in the future too. I don't want a 12/20 barrel burst either.
One that should be more widely known - because the book should be more widely read - is reported in The .30-06 by Godfrey. There's a picture of a bolt with sheared locking lugs reported to "give way with a relatively mild 55,000 psi load. That really isn't the whole story though because it says nothing about the half dozen 100,000 + psi loads which were fired the day before."
A strong and well written reminder that over pressure can accumulate until the metal breaks.
I told a Mexican from Mexico to take my 243 Savage mod. 99 and shoot themselves a deer, and I went to town for some supplies. He got the 243 and a box of 250-3000s shot the deer and said the recoil was very bad and he didn't ever want to shoot it again..I sprung the lever getting it open and finally got the case out..Swaging a 25 caliber bullet ot 243 is tricky at best but the old 99 held together, and I hammered the lever back to working and never looked back..that could have been a real explosion, but wasn't...After that I gave him a .22 rifle to do his hunting with and he never had a failure..:)
In P.O. Ackley's first book he ran some experiments with using over-size bullets, such as an 8mm in a .30 caliber barrel. He came to the conclusion that the big problem wasn't the bullet going down the smaller bore, but the tight grip the case had on the bullet when (and if) the round was chambered. Evidently standard lead-core bullets will swage down without much difficulty in a slightly smaller bore.
I checked the case dimensions on the .243 and .250 and your Mexican friend would have had to jam about 1/10th inch of the .250 case into the neck of the .243 chamber. The .250 neck with a bullet seated supposedly has a maximum diameter of .286", while the .243 neck is supposed to be .276". This would obviously be possible with a little effort, especially with a slightly oversize neck in the .243 chamber.
Luckily his .250 ammo was without a doubt factory, which is pretty low pressure.
In P.O. Ackley's first book he ran some experiments with using over-size bullets, such as an 8mm in a .30 caliber barrel. He came to the conclusion that the big problem wasn't the bullet going down the smaller bore, but the tight grip the case had on the bullet when (and if) the round was chambered. Evidently standard lead-core bullets will swage down without much difficulty in a slightly smaller bore.
I checked the case dimensions on the .243 and .250 and your Mexican friend would have had to jam about 1/10th inch of the .250 case into the neck of the .243 chamber. The .250 neck with a bullet seated supposedly has a maximum diameter of .286", while the .243 neck is supposed to be .276". This would obviously be possible with a little effort, especially with a slightly oversize neck in the .243 chamber.
Luckily his .250 ammo was without a doubt factory, which is pretty low pressure.
Yep and P.O. reamed the chamber neck for proper clearance and shot some pretty large bullets through undersized bores. Seems as long as the neck releases the bullet and the case seals the chamber you stand a good chance of the bullet managing to make it down range. I have no inclination to follow up his work. Bear
I have read that where another problem crops up is when the case is shorter than the chamber, like a .308 cartridge forced into a .30-06 chamber (if you could do it.)
Another example would be a 7 X 57 Mauser in a .270 Win. The case would probably come apart at the unsupported neck, releasing the high pressure gas into the action and magazine well.
Yes, but for clarification Ackley did his work with a case and chamber correct for each other and simply reamed the neck for proper clearance of the larger bullet. He then was able to shoot them through a smaller barrel such as a 32 or 33 caliber bullet through a 30 caliber barrel for example with no high pressure signs such as a handloader would look for. If on the other hand the case does not fill, (seal), the chamber there may well be fireworks. As I said before however this is not something I wish to personally test! Bear
I had a customer buy a PF Mod 70 in 7mm Rem Mag from me. The rifle worked fine the first year of deer hunting, the second year he tried to save a buck on ammo and the guy in the discount store said he didn't need magnums for deer and sold him a box of 7mm Rem Express shells. The first one destroyed the mag box, floorplate and stock. After pulling big chunck of wood out of his arm I loaned him one of my rifles for the season. I replaced all the broken stuff and the rifle was just fine(he was sighting in on my range). Also went to the Dicount store and told off the salesperson and manager. This was back before everyone sued everyone else.
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) using a pistol powder in a rifle case, a vice and a long string on the trigger.
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