I found this rifle used like new. What's it good for? Anybody have one? Do you kill deer with it? What do they sell for approximately?

Thanks in advance.

Heavy or pencil barrel?

It has a lightweight sporter barrel. It is a very sweet little rifle.

Big Redhead, my buddy and his Dad had a 6PPC barrel put on a small Sako action some years back. His Dad passed away and my buddy inherited the gun. Shortly after that he sold all his guns including the 6PPC. I shot it a bit and it was a pleasure to shoot. I believe it was barreled by Brown Precision. Gun was blue and walnut.

Can't say I know much about them other than handling and shooting this one. I do know that people will hunt deer with the 6PPC round and I wouldn't hesitate to do it if I was using something like a 85 gr partition or even a Sierra 85 gr HPBT Gameking.

Wish I could help out more.

I picked one up last fall, fun gun to shoot. I payed around $900 for mine. BerettaUsa has brass. Haven't shot anything with it but should be OK for deer and varmints. Is it on a AI action?

If you ever want to get rid of it let me know, my smith has been drooling over mine and really wants it. Here is a pic of mine

[img:left][/img]

and it in it's new Mcswirly

[img:left][/img]

Yes, I believe it is the AI action IIRC. It has Stoeger import markings. I believe the barrel and chambering to be original.

Looking at the ballistics of the 6mm PPC I just can't really see what the caliber is good for. I found loads 85 grain bullets at 2600+ fps. It sounds like it will kill deer out to a hundred yards or a bit more, but if I wanted a 6mm deer rifle I would get a 243. I'm sure it will kill varmints and punch paper but a 223 would do that as well and with a much flatter trajectory.

What attracts me to the rifle is its beauty and lightweight action. The action is smaller than a Kimber 84M, and the stock is pretty walnut. I just wondered if it had high resale value to a collector or something like that. If it were mine I would rebarrel it.

No other rifle round is as accurate.Period.

dave

you can do a lot better than those velocities with deer bullets, too

from Chuck Hawk's site:

"The following information for heavier bullets is taken from the Speer Reloading Manual #13. The Speer test rifle had a 1-12 inch twist barrel. The 85 grain Speer BT spitzer bullet can be driven to a MV of 2703 fps with 25.5 grains of H335, or 3156 fps with 29.5 grains of the same powder. The 90 grain Speer Hot-Cor spitzer bullet can be driven to a MV of 2601 fps with 25.0 grains or 3031 fps with 29.0 grains of H335. The Speer 90 grain Hot-Cor spitzer bullet has a trajectory like this at a MV of 2900 fps: +1.9 inches at 100 yards, 0 at 200 yards, -7.7 inches at 300 yards."


I have looked at this round, but decided if I want something like that I'll do one of the versions on the .223 case rather than the PPC, which is based on a Russian round. Because it is so short, some have reported feeding problems....it was really designed for single shot benchrest rifles. But if I stumbled on one of those beautiful little Vixens, I might not be able to resist.

Red,

Couple of thoughts here. Reasons to buy it are:
Vixens are about the very best rifles ever made, in any caliber.
But, the one in 6 PPC is the one hardest to locate today
Their resale value is climbing, not decreasing.
I had two dedicated benchrest 6 PPC's rifles in the early 1970's, right after the chambering became popular. Accuracy was the same as in Dave's pix. I made my own bullets back then, 68 grainers with Detsch dies.
If you want THE very best 6 PPC in a sporting rifle, you should buy the one you have found. It would make a Coyote rifle unequalled in class.
I'm sure with the right bullet that it would down a Deer. But, there are better Deer rifle options in your arsenal today.
I would buy it, and use it for Coyote hunting, and also have a great collector's rifle at the same time.
My .02 cents, FWIW.

Don

Steve NO,

The ballistics you post are much more promising. Thanks.

Thanks to all for replies.

Big_Redhead: I actually burst out laughing when I read your posting!
Your quote that I found so laughable: "I just can't really see what the caliber is good for".
End of YOUR quote.
My gawd man YOU need to get out more often!
The 6mm PPC is an absolutely splendid cartridge!
Its exquisitely accurate and the recoil is such that with my Varmint weight Sako 6mm PPC I can most often spot my own hits on long range Rock Chucks and Prairie Dogs!
The 6mm PPC is VERY easy on barrels, barrel life wise and it heats a barrel in Colony Varmint situations slower than most all other 24 caliber cartridges do!
You apparently are "talking down" at those folks who DO "kill Varmints" and "punch paper"!
Both of those endeavors are legal, fun, fulfilling and interesting to the max!
The 6mm PPC does a splendid job "punching paper" (maybe better than any other cartridge ever invented?) and "killing Varmints" - I KNOW it does a sensational job of this latter sport as I have been using mine for 8 years now to do so.
Yeah, YOU need to get out more!
I know for a FACT that any/every Deer here in Beaverhead County, Montana standing 300 yards distant from me DOES NOT WANT ME SHOOTING MY SAKO 6mm PPC at them!
Yeah, there are better cartridges for Deer Hunting but I have never run across anyone selling a 6mm PPC and using the cartridges abilities in killing Deer as its main selling point!
I just referrred to my loading log book under 6mm PPC and the last two range visits I made with my Sako heavy barrel 6mm PPC in different years produced groups (5 shots at 100 yards) measuring .212" and .226" respectively!
That my fine feathered friend is about as absolutely well as these 62 year old eyes can hold the fine crosshairs of a Leupold 24 power target scope anymore!
These groups were fired in different years and were both pre-Varmint Safari sight in verification groups!
In other words - this all factory stock Rifle in 6mm PPC is capable of virtual one hole accuracy or as I refer to it "absolute accuracy"!
By the way that .212" group (5 shots at 100 yards) was fired with off the shelf Nosler 70 grain Ballistic Tip bullets!!!
Yeah YOU need to get out more!
You are the first adult person (I assume you are an adult?) I have ever seen or heard besmirching the fine - not NOT just FINE - the WONDERFUL 6mm PPC cartridge!
I guess theres a first time for everything?
Sheesh!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Aaaand once again, a totally unwarranted flaming by VG.

BR,

I'd grab it man. That be a nice rifle.


Travis

They are very nice guns and shoot extremely well, best I can tell.

Back in the early 90's I convinced Pops to use my FFL and get a nice Sako like the one you are looking at, but the bull barrel and wide forarm version. I tried to convince him 6PPC was the way to go, but he had me order the 243. He is not a benchrest reloader, doesn't adjust for runout, neck thickness or sort brass, actually probably uses range mix....

It shoots 5 into 1/2" on an average day, my son and dad shot it about a year ago and my kid shot a .57" ctc 5 shot group and couldn't believe it. If I am lucky I will inherit it before my son does...lol

I think back then they were $800+ NIB.

Allen

VarmintGuy,

I'm not talking down to anybody. I'm just not a varmint hunter. The comments I made that you pointed out were when the only data I had seen to date was 2600 fps with an 85 grainer. That's not too exciting for a varmint gun OR a deer gun. When Steve NO pointed out the more desireable 3000 fps loads, I saw the light.

I can certainly see how it would make a neat coyote rifle. Maybe my father-in-law would be interested in the rifle as he is a coyote hunter. I'll have to tell him about it.

When the need arises for me to become a temporary varmint hunter, I grab my AR-15. Any stray "coyote" caught in the open within about 300 yards is in serious caca at that point.

I'm not a real varmint hunter either, but for me that rifle has such a "cool factor" that I would be sorely tempted by it.

Just buy the rifle and let IT do the talking,if you dont like what its saying it seems that plenty of others will take it from you so what have you got to lose!!

BRH: A point that nobody seems to have mentioned in this thread is that most of the Sako AI rifles in 6PPC (maybe all of them?) have a rifling twist of 1 turn in 14 inches. I have heard rumours that some had a 1 in 12 twist, but all the first-hand reports I have seen say 1 in 14. Mine (a heavy-barrelled, single shot model) certainly has 1 in 14, and so do those belonging to a few people I have shot alongside.

The 1 in 14 twist is perfect for 65 to 70 grain bullets, but with anything heavier, it is decidedly �iffy�. I once tried some long-snouted 75gr hollow pointed bullets in mine, and got lousy groups, with some of the bullet holes in the paper being a definite oval shape � a clear indication of instability. Blunter, shorter 75gr bullets MAY have stabilised, but I don�t know for certain as I have never tried them. An acquaintance of mine tried some 85gr spitzer bullets in his, and reckoned they went through the target sideways-on. Those that hit the paper, anyway � some of them didn�t even do that!

So � if you buy this rifle (I�d buy it in a flash if I had the chance!) check the twist rate before you start loading ammo for it, or you may get an unpleasant surprise.

Big Redhead:

I have a Sako AI Hunter with the light barrel in 6mm PPC. I like the rifle and the cartridge. My average 3 shot group size for over 30 groups averages .41 inches ctc, including fouling shots. Topped with a 12X Leupold scope I use it in a walking varminter role. Loaded with 65 gr. VMAX bullets and a moderate load of Benchmark powder it anchors groundhogs much more authoritatively than a .223, and I have used it effectively out to 300 yards. These rifles do have 1/14 inch twist rates and will probably do best with streamlined bullets of 70 gr or less. I like this rifle so much that I am on the lookout for another one just like it, same model same caliber. Hard to justify, but I do like them that much.

The downsides: You will have to handload, brass is not normally stocked in local gunstores, and feeding with more than two rounds in the magazine is a bit rough, probably because of the short stubby sharp shouldered little cartridge.


George

The 6mmPPC holds every record for accuracy.5 shot group.25 and 50 shot aggerates.
At 300 yards.


dave

I have been shooting .22ppcs for a good 20 yrs and 6ppcs for a good 10. I shot a Borden 6ppc today with my friend who I gave a Remington 40X 6ppc. I have set him up with reloading equipment and such and he's shooting better than I am already. I have shot thousands and thousands of rounds, and he's already shooting better. Go figure. Well I have a Sako Finbear Classic in my safe in .30-06 and it was my first rifle. It looks a lot like the Vixen. I would certainly buy up the one in the pic if someone brought it by. Up in Maine, Sako rifles have achieved cult status and are very highly regarded by Northwoods hunters here.

The Sako rifles shoot 6ppc USA. I fire form my 6ppc cartridges from Lapua .220 Russian brass. Because I have bench guns I have to neck turn also. If you have the rifle in your hands, Sako makes brass for it and it will say 6ppc USA. This will not fit in my guns. I have to form .220 Russian. You can shoot factory loads, factory brass, or any combination. I have shot bullets from 65 grains to 80 grains. Most PPC's will not stabilize heavier bullets. They are very accurate. My guns both shoot in the ones. That means between 1/10th of an inch and 2/10ths of an inch. That just makes me smile because I've shot so many targets in my life and it's about as good as it gets.

There is a website called 6mmbr and they cover competitive rifle shooting. I will post a link for you to their 6ppc page. You can read all about it.

http://www.6mmbr.com/6PPC.html

I had one in 22PPC about 15 years ago. It was, and remains, the most accurate factory rifle I have ever seen, Period.

To put that in perspective, at that time I owned a VSSF 220Swift with a 6.5-20 Leupold on top. It would average under a half-inch for 5 shots. And that little Vixen with a Balvar 2-8 compact would outshoot it every time.

Great rifles!

Did it just make a mess on my Davenport???

Yep, real treasure YOU found (grins). I'm glad you scored it. One silly LW tackdriver that is.

I'm thinking GS Customs may have a good 6PPC pig puncher; we need to check it out. A 62 grainer at over 3,300 should or 69 maybe should suffice for most deer sized stuff.
May ask Gerard....

P.S. Wife said I didn't need to sell anything (grins).

I have a first year Sako 6PPC single shot benchrest model. Was still built on the 461 action with the milled recoil lug. A1's came out a year or two later. Bought it new and I believe the vintage is around 86 or 87. Has a 1-14 twist and doesn't like anything heavier than 70-75 grainers. With a 1-10 or even a 1-12 and loaded to around 2850 with 85 partitions, it would make a great low recoiling hunting rifle. Doubt a deer could tell the difference between this modern contraption and an old 250-3000.
dan

Amen.

I have probably the oldest 6mm PPC available. It was given to a writer friend of mine for testing by none other than Louis Palmisano, one of the P's in the PPC name. I got it when he was needing money for another project. The serial number is 20.

The provenance alone is enough to keep this gun, but when you shoot it, you really know what this caliber is all about. It is about accuracy and nothing more. It isn't made for deer hunting, varminting or anything else, just one hole groups. It will do that.

If you want to shoot deer with it, there are bullets that will work, but trying to make a hunting rifle out of a bench gun seems silly.

I have been shooting Hornady 75 grain hollow points with exceptional accuracy. I don't care what the velocity is, (although with 322 powder I believe it is about 2900 fps) all I know is that it is going to hit where I have the 1/4 minute dot pointed. It does work as a great varmint round as well.

If you want a one hole gun, buy it, if you want a deer and varmint rifle get a .243.

shrapnel,

Well I remember the article that was written up on your rifle. I have run across two of them in the last few years. A sgl shot hvy bbl. and the last one was I THINK a repeater, sporter weight.

The former I intended to buy, but it disappeared before I could accumulate the scratch. The latter I passed over to buy a Carl Gustaf 8000 actioned .25-06. (Sometimes a man just has to make a choice... )

Besides, I have a plethora of varmint rifles already, and I'm not a dedicated varmint hunter, anyway...

Edw

I have not shot the 6PPC but I have had the cutest Custom Sako L-461 in a 6x45 with a Douglas barrel and thats balistically very close, It has a 0 tolerance chamber; Mod 70 3 pos. safety made from a piece of .308 bull barrel; A custom English style stock with Biesen butt plate, egg cheek piece, and the whole package weighs 5.5 lbs. and shoots in the .200 to .300 everytime...I'd post pics but don't have a clue how.

I have shot close to 800 Springbok, Impala and Kudu with it on culling operations, lost count along the line. I used the now discontinued 75 gr. Barnes X bullet at about 2900 FPS or faster with excellent results and today I use the 75 gr. GS Customs bullet and its even better. I have used other bullets but they are too fragile for the most part for big game. I have also shot about a dozen Whitetail, maybe 6 or 7 Mule deer and a few Pronghorn Antelope with the rifle over the last 20 years.

You will find the 6PPC quit simulair and a good killer if you keep shot in the heart/lung area. It doesn't always leave a good blood trail so its best to use in in the more open country so you can watch them run after a hit if they don't go down right there. Sometimes they will go 100 or so yards, most times they don't make many tracks if any.. I only use it in the Sage brush and open country.

BIG REDHEAD- this is a foreign rifle . parts are hard to find for it . it shootsA squatty little round . not good for deer . but it will do fine on targets. the trigger is too light. the brass is expensive. private message me a price shipped to arizona. I can help relieve you of this spruce goose. roninflag

If VG were a little smarter he'd have taken this tack...

I have a 26" TC Custom shop barrel in 6PPC for my Encore. It handled SD mule deer last year with a 85 gr. Sierra BTHP at 2850 fps. It shoots 10 shot groups into .3" at 100 yds, 1.3" groups at 300 yds. 55gr. Nosler BTs shoots just as well, but at 3500 fps 10' from the muzzle.

AKA, buy it!!!!!!!

BIG Redhead- that gun is not made for the fowl weather they have in michigan. in az we have coyotes running right in phx. i will root for michigan and michigan state whenever they play ohio state. pm me a price shipped to az. thanks. roninflag

Sorry Ron, but I do not own the rifle to sell it to you.

A note on the twist. My sako 6ppc sporter had 1:12 twist. I thought that most Sako barrels had the twist rate stamped on them as well...so could be easy to check. I really liked that gun. Currently have one in 222...which is destined to be a 6x45 one of these days. I really like those little Sakos.

Mine's a 1-10" twist, I should have mentioned that. The 85 gr. Sierra BTHP is the longest bullet it will stabilize, I tried the 85 gr. Nosler Partition and it won't shoot a 6" group, the 85 gr. Sierra's are in .3" groups at 100 yds.

I built a custom on this Sako action in a 22 PPC repeater, it never had a feeding issue.

If you have never owned a 22 or 6 PPC, it is hard for a guy to imagine just how accurate the round is with such a large variety of bullet weights and types of powders.

Gents - I'd like to bump this to the top. Any concern with this cartridge in a sporter weight 22" barrel?
Thanks!

Nope, just feed it appropriate bullets for the twist (its been covered well here).

Pardon if I have missed this, but with respect to the lighter or heavier bullets (with the appropriate twist), is one inherently more accurate than another? I.E. should I be looking for a 1:10, 1:12 or 1:14 twist rate to maximize accuracy or is it mute as long as you follow the right weight range for twist rate previously described?

Here's my A1 SAKO repeater in a McMillian Hunter stock. It has a 1:14 twist my range partner has a later Sako single shot on a S491 action with a 1:12 factory twist. My SAKO weighs just over 7# ready to go. It likes Sierra 70gr HPTs. In 5 3 shot groups 1 will be 1/4", 3 around 1/2" and 1 Around 3/4". Think of it as a 222 on steroids. Mine has only shot paper & turtles.

I believe I handled a Ruger 77V in 22PPC or 6MM PPC back in
the early 90s.