Hello all,
I am considering a new rifle build. I am looking at building a lightweight bolt action rifle with a 20" barrel for a shortrange blacktail deer hunting rifle. My question is the caliber. I have been thinking of a .250 savage or something in that range.Most of my shots are under 100 yards but would like the range for 200 with enough energy. I am curious about some other cartridges such as 6.8 spc, 6XC, ect. Does anyone have any recommendations for such a rifle. Builds, pics would be helpful.

Thanks

.308 win sounds like it might work.

I have been thinking about the same kind of build for awhile now and here's what I've put together in my mind:

Remington 700, short action ADL
Pac Nor Winchester Featherweight contour barrel, stainless
Chambered in 250 Savage, AI
21" barrel
Talley LW mounts
Leupold FXII 4x33
McMillan Hunter's Edge stock, Edge Fill, painted brown.

Of course, the ultimate short range rifle is an iron sighted handgun

10 twist 250 Sav with a 21" barrel .6" at the mzl. Ti take off, 700 shorty action, Talley's and a 4x Leo out to do you well. Add R15 and 120 Speers and or the 117 Horn RN and you're golden.

Dober

Don't worry about the 250 Savage it has plenty of power. This guy was just shy of 300 lbs. One shot DRT.

I you're lucky your state will just pick one for you, like ours....

I use a NULA 250 Savage for everything except birds nowadays. I've taken numerous whitetails, pronghorns, hogs, axis deer, blackbucks and prairie dogs. I love the 250!!! Its light recoil, modest report, flat shooting and effective. Cases last forever in a bolt gun and you don't need any special premium bullets. Give it a try I think you will agree...

Dang!! Lost a bet with myself. I figured it wouldn't be 5 posts before somebody swore the .260 would be the way to go. But it took 7....grinnin'

I had a 260 and a 6.5x55 great cartridges, but I prefer the 250 Savage.

for 100 yards, a CZ 527 carbine in 7.62x39 autta work

I use a 308.

Others here use 7-08 and similar (Boyd Iverson).

With clear cuts shots can range to 300 yards pretty easy.

ANything based on the 308 case is fine (243, 260, 7-08, 308, 338 fed, 358).

250 savage is fine too.

BMT

I just built a 6.5x47 Lapua hunting rifle.
21" 8 twist 3 groove Lilja, Remington mag contour as I like a bit of weight to help with off hand type shots. No name laminate stock. I have a 5.5x22 Nightforce on it as I hunt in open country, but a guy could get by with a 3x9 or so easy enough.

course a Model 94 in 30-30 has handled that chore nicely, for a looong time.

It appears you are building for low recoil, and that's cool.

Ignoring that for the moment, I've been extremely impressed with my .358 Model 7 with a 20" barrel, both in terms of handling and of terminal effect on deer. It is a no-muss, no-fuss deer hammer.

And recoil is not bad at all- less than 30-06 generally speaking. Sound is relatively easy on the ears- a booom, not a crack.

I'm a fan.

If the range is short and you want something different try a 35 rem in a short 20" tube. Mild on recoil and will put a nice thump on deer in close

Another vote for the 30-30, but I prefer the Marlin.

Right on, and mount it with a receiver sight. Puts the emphasis back on hunting and less on long range target shooting at critters. No, dammit, thats what binocs are for!!!

Wayne

25Souper, 7/08, 300Savage, 308, the list could go on. Pick the one you like the most.Rick.

If you are building a rifle purchase one of these:
www.savagearms.com/firearms/actions/sporter/
or one of these if you want a stainless steel action:
www.savagearms.com/firearms/actions/varmint/
then barrel it with a drop-in pre-chambered Savage barrel from
www.pac-nor.com/
or:
www.shilen.com/savageBarrels.html

Stocks are available from a variety of sources such as Sharp Shooter Supply (finish sanded pillar bedded stocks), Stocky Stocks and Boyds.

With a barrel nut wrench, barrel vice and headspace gauge you can barrel it yourself, finish the stock, mount the scope and go shoot, or hire a gunsmith to assemble it for you. Any mid-power cartridge will work, from the .22-250, .243 Winchester, to the .250-3000 (Savage) you mentioned (a really good choice especially with Barnes bullets), to the .308 Win., .260 Remington, etc. Pick a cartridge that's inexpensive with good brass availability and bullet selection, there is no magic cartridge they all do the same thing. With the Savage action you can swap barrels, magazines and bolt heads to interchange cartridges at will, or to meet differing terrain and species.

If you gotta have a Remington action, then use a Pac-Nor barrel modified for a Savage style barrel nut, so you can change the barrels out easily. Alternatively order a Bergara Barrel which is ready to screw on with a Savage style nut:
www.bergarabarrels.com/bergarabarrels/drop-in-barrels/remington-700-rifle-barrels.html/
They even show you how: http://cmgvault1.s3.amazonaws.com/bergara/quick-barrel-assembly/index.html

Have fun.

If I were going to build, I'd want to sink the money in someting with resale value. A Model 7 in .243 or .308 would do it all for a lot less money.

250 Savage would be perfect, along with the 300 Savage.
Both of those chamberings have a good assortment of "Deer" bullets available.
The guys above have lots of good advice on possible chamberings.
I have both 250 Savages, one 300 Savage, and a Marlin 336 in 30-30 that I like a lot. The 336 is set up with a Williams rear peep and a firefly front; just a perfect 100 yard Deer rifle using Nosler's 170 gn Partition.
Have fun coming up with a new rifle. During the off season that's where the fun is, finding a new load, or a new rifle.

Don

What an individual builds is a matter of choice. I prefer to build my own rifles from components these days. I am not concerned about resale value, because even the grandest of custom rifles depreciate quickly, especially those in wildcat calibers. What I build is based on my needs, including self-education, experimentation, accuracy and self-satisfaction. The original poster mentioned building a rifle, and I offered this alternative to the limited Remington action based build.



These varmint rifles, and the one on the mat that has since been completed, are examples of what I build for myself. Each costs around $1,500 to build, and each shoots under .5" at 100 yards. Calibers include .204 Ruger (2 barrels), .223 Remington, 6mm PPC, .243 WSSM. Bolt heads can be swapped in 15 minutes, barrels in less time. The reason most shooters sell a rifle is that it doesn't live up to their expectations in accuracy. When that happens, it is possible to easily change the barrel or cartridge without difficulty using this system.

The Savage rifle is far and away a more accurate, less trouble prone system than the Remington. When you can do-it-yourself then the skills developed are worth much more than opening a box and shooting what's inside.

There is an off the shelf rifle that is just what you want. A Kimber montana in 257 Roberts, I have the 308 win in a montana and a select classic in the roberts. If I were to do it again both would be montana's. I cannot sell the Kimber select classic in 257 Roberts because it shoots to good, the 100TSX has been a good bullet in it as well.

On the other hand building a 250 Savage on a Rem model 7 action has some appeal as well, the 22 inch long Montana barrel mikes .547 IIRC at the muzzle, I think .6 would make it a bit more stable.

.250 Savage is all need be said.

I like that except for the twist. I'd NOT go with a 1-10" twist, go 1-9" twist, trust me.

I like it......

But I like mine too--a 1962 vintage M700 w/ 20 in bbl, an early lightweight Six stock, Leupy 1.5-4 (for the REALLY close shots ), with 165gr Sierras.

With 180gr Pt's, it does a good job of digging wapiti's out of the elk jungles too..........


Casey

I shoot a Savage 110 WLE with a 22" 1 in 10 twist barrel. I would also recommend the 1 in 9 twist for the heavy bullets. Mine shoots 117 grain Sierra Pro Hunters just fine with Re15.

But I'm not sure I want to pack any of those rifles around the hills...........could get a little tiring........
Casey

I bought this 250 around 1972. it's been a great deer rifle and works well for a moderate range varmint rifle too.
Doc

to answer the post.. 6.8 spc and 6xc both work fine to 200 yards no problem.

Have a 20" barreled M98 still in 8x57, that I codgeled-up many years ago. Nice to tote, very accurate, kills whitetails about as dead as they need to be, with 125gr and 150gr loads.

It's also dropped deer at over 100 yards and would likely handle an even longer chore, so that's another bonus, in addition to being fairly light and short enough to handle well in thick stuff.

Ive got this little Model 7 Remington CDL in .22-250 I occasionally use on deer...I know it works at close range, got my first deer at 12 feet with it, and my second at almost 50 yds. ( ! ) Subsequently I killed one at 200 yds with it too, so I know it will " stretch" if I need it to...



ingwe

I go with the 250, the 257 Roberts or maybe 6.5x55. Any one of the three will get it done. The 6.5 just gives you some horsepower in reserve....

Fantastic!

One pet project I have is to build a 250 Savage on the Kimber MT action... 21 or 22" barrel, likely 1-10 or maybe 1-9" twist. I used an M77 RSI in 250 Savage for a number of years and found it a fantastic killer on deer sized game at normal ranges. I mostly used 120 Speers and 117 Hdy's, but would likely use 100 or 115 Ballistic Tips these days.

Years ago when I had a project idea stuck in my head, I got hold of the shop manager at HS Precision and was talking with him about a cut rifle barrel from them for the project... he was fairly ho-hum about the conversation until I mentioned it would be a 250 Savage... at that he absolutely lit up! Stated they'd found their cut barrels in 250 Savage to be the most consistently accurate of any cartridge they chambered for... he darn near waxed lyrical over the cartridge. Go figure.

What I've found about the 250 is that it is to Big Game what the 223 is to Varmints... kills out of proportion to its size and recoil... an absolute pleasure to shoot and load for.

And of course, I've a rancher friend that has killed elk with his but that's a whole other conversation (grin)...

I have a TC Contender Rifle in 7TCU I am getting 2675 FPS with 120 gr.Nozler BT.The Rifle shoots 1/2" groups at 100 yds and weighs less than 7 lbs all set to go.I am betting this combo is good to 250 to 300yds. and there is hardly any recoil at all.7TCU is simply a 223 necked up to 7 MM.A lot of bang for the buck.

Handled one yesterday, that someone just put together and it was a mighty handy little package. Synthetic camo handles, 16.25" barrel (sort of a mini bull) and compact scope, in 7mm08.

He said it shoots very well.

I use a Ruger No.1-A 22 inch barrel in 7X57.It's about the same size as a Winchester model 94.I also use a Ruger M-77 LW .257 Roberts.It has a 20 inch barrel.

Steelhead is exactly right if I were to build again I would go with a 1-9 twist for the longer heavier bullets. That said all my 250 hunting has been with the 100 Gr Ballistic tips, 100 Gr Interlocks and I now use the 100 Gr ProHunters, my rifle has a 1-10 and if any of these loads don't shoot under 3/4 inch I did something wrong. Like I said I've used it with these loads from prairie dogs to the nearly 300 lbs boar I posted the pic of and it is deadly...

Brad, it is a great rifle I had Melvin Forbes put it into the model 20-S action. It weighs 6 lbs on the dot with 5 cartridges, scope mounts, scope and sling...

For a standard factory choice a M77 RL in 257 Rbts with a 20" barrel is very lite and nice handling. In 08 I used mine to do 5 antelope with 100 gr Hornady SP at 2900+fps. 4, 1 shot kills and the 5th needed a finisher.Not the loads fault either.It is a sweet handling outfit.The RL's are offered in other suitable chamberings as well. Magnum_Man

I thought about putting a short range deer rig too. Some the suggestions sound good to me. But what about a rifle that offers the option of a rapid second shot? I'm thinking a Remington 760. Maybe I'd look for a good used one and re-barrel it to .250 or 260 etc. I'd mount a 1x5 Leupold. If I went with the .250 I'd opt for 9" twist and use bullets in the 120gr range. Years ago a had a Mod.760 in a .270 and it was quite accurate, way more than needed for 200yd. shots. If I didn't want to spend the money to re-barrel, I look for another one in .270, load 150gr. round nose Sierra/Hornady etc. and be happy.

Are short range deer anything like free range chickens?

6.5 Creedmore, 20" tube, 8 twist. WOW, I think I will get one. Hello Melvin, it's me again. Should work just like the old 6.5x54 MS's which laid everything low.

Me neither, I push them around on a rifle bench on 26" bicycle wheels, and I'm crippled up. Each weighs 14+ pounds. Build one about 6 pounds and you're good to go.

I agree, always opt for the faster twist. I even went to 1:8.5" for a .204 Ruger and it works great.

I�ve hunted blacktails in western Washington for a decade or so. A couple of weeks ago, I spied a little doe on a brushy cliff 40m away as she lifted her head to peer at me. I had to crouch and shoot from an odd angle, but I broke her neck with my 308.

I try to imagine a better rifle on the drive home every year but I always come back to what I used this year: a pre-64 Model 70 FWT with a 4x Leupold and a Pacific Research stock. It�s longer and heavier than it could be, but it balances well, it fits me perfectly, and I�ve made several very fast shots on game with it.

I shoot it so much better than anything else that it has forced most of my other rifles into retirement. I�d never use it for just deer, so it has to be capable of taking elk, hogs, etc. with some margin for error. The 308 will do that. Also, components are cheap and common, so I can practice a LOT without going broke.

Starting from scratch, I�d consider a Model 7 or a Montana. I�d have it built to balance at the front action screw, which may mean a 22� barrel or longer. I�d fiddle with rings and bases until the reticle magically appeared on whatever I pointed it at, then I�d shoot it so much that I could hit with it in a hurry. Then I�d make sure it was a 308 so I could use it on pretty much everything and find ammo pretty much anywhere.


Okie John

You could run a heavier contour and stay shorter, but with the same balance point.

Easily done: flick the bolt while the gun is in recoil, and you'll have a live round in the chamber by the time the crosshairs settle back on the target.


Okie John

25 feet to 250 yards






Nikon 1.5-4x20mm

thats a nice deal Chrome! I bet that 6.8 SPC is about perfect in that little rifle.

other than it being a ruger... very nice.

I've had several 6.8's in the past and was thinking the little carbine would have alot of muzzle blast, but was surprised at the lack of recoil and blast from the 16" barrel.

I agree, much beyond the little 6.8 might have some noise, and thats about a perfect round for GA deer.

Trying to figure out how a Montana in .243 wouldn't work, and can't.

..........If you`d like just a "little" more noise, with just a "little" more recoil, and with just a "little" more blast, then I have a Ruger compact for ya to have some real good fun with sometime.........:D

I like the walnut stock on your 6.8 and thinking of switching over to one.

I would think that any full stock/mannlicher bolt action carbine from .25 to .30 cal would work great for you. Personally, I like levers in .25 to .35 cal. Good luck.

I like this cartridge for this application, and have no problem with the rest of your discription other than choice of twist. Based on my own experience, and the recommendations of gunsmiths, and barrel-makers like Shilen, I believe a 9" twist would be a better choice for these heavier end bullets. It would be my choice, and I could use any heavy bullet I chose without having to worry about stability. And, if I were to use the .250 as a short-range deer rifle, it would be loaded with the heavier bullets.

Just my thoughts,
M Bell

Lil Ctg + Lil 'GOOD' bullet + CORRECT vital shot placement = Death

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbth...ger_1_International_Who_has_#Post3091822

I think a 250 w/100 Barnes would do about the same thing. I'd run it, the 100BT and 110 AB if/when I have one.

No doubt, for heavies in a 250, faster twist will not hurt.

If ONLY Ruger would marry the 77 Compact, AND #1 RSI with Hornady's 6.5 Grendel (yeah, I ignore the other company), then I would be all over that, it just turns my crank more than a 6.8, not that the latter won't do well...again good bullets/placement.

The 260 in a Ruger compact, even downloaded w/a good 120-130 would have very modest recoil and blast as well if max loads were not used, and still kill fine.

On that 7TCU, used alot in pistols, and I know at 2400 w/fireformed load in a 14", it's a solid 200 yd gun. My 7BR was a notch above the TCU, my rifle - 21", shot 2875 w/120s. 2665 w/130, 2545 w/139s. For short ranges, given the choice, I see a round that does NOT blew up too much edible meat, blast your ears, etc. very logical.

My 6BRs have done well also on deer, all back to use a good bullet, put it where it needs to go. On that TCU note, and the OP hunting blacktails, I recall a Sako that someone out there has, it was in Shotgun news years back, the owner used a #1 and fluted IIRC bbl, on a Sako L461/469 action, in 6.5TCU, though OAL of mag limited it to 100 gr bullets. A 6TCU or 6x45 on a Sako vixen would be a dandy to 200 yds, contact Fred at Bullberry re: his 20" mannlicher - his fav.

A nice 25 might be the 257 TCU, or maybe also called 'copperhead' and put in a small Sako or Interarms or CZ. Mild recoiling rifles are just plain fun, and still get the job done when you do....everytime. Rich at Sierra did a wildcat 25 on a 35 Remington case IIRC, and in that Interarms mini-mauser action. Another thought if you want to consider a wildcat.

A 20" 250Sav/260/7-08/308/338Fed/358W would be perfect for this.

My 358Win is going to be fed with 200s for deer.

.

Maybe I misunderstood the idea of "short-range" because most of the rifles being considered seem to be medium range (as in out to 300 yards or so).

I do love the .250-3000 but I prefer it in a Savage 99. The .308 and .358 are other favorites in the Savage for this use as is the old reliable .300 Savage. If you prefer a bolt action rifle I'd go with a Mannlicher carbine in something like the 7x57mm or .308......Nothing wrong with the .250-3000 if you like it in such a rifle but I just don't buy into the idea of using the least rifle possible to do a job.

For me, the original post about "short-range" (100 yards normal with possibility of an occational 200 yard shot) just cries out for a traditional lever gun in something like the .35 Remington or .45-70.

I'd even go so far as to pick my own favorite "short-range" rifle, the Ruger 44 Carbine. It's pushing the .44 magnum a might to take 200 yard shots, but at 150 yards or less it's almost perfect. Where I hunt with this carbine, a 150 yard shot is almost unheard of.....more likely it will be at under 50 yards.

BR,

I think the 100 grain Barnes and the 110 AB would both be "heavy" bullets in this caliber as far as stability/twist is concerned. Both are longer than the 117 Pro-Hunter and 117 IL Spire-Point. The 110 AB is even longer than the 120 Hornady HP and the older 120 Nosler Solid Base.

M Bell

I think my first choice would be a 6.5br but a 7br, 6.5tcu, 7tcu, 6.5 Grendel, 6x47, 6.5x47, 6.5 Creedmore, 6xc would all be on my short list.

Dang it, I'm thinking 99 savage in the excellent old 300 savage. Maybe i'm just feeling a little nostalgic right now, but there it is.

Got a 2.5X Leupy HD inbound for my Frontier .358. All my rifles are short range because of where I usually hunt...

Ten Sleep, good point on twists.

Cub, sounds like you have it backwards, gonna 'feed the deer 200s' LOL.

TxRick, I like the handy Marlin 357 myself, Lil Gun/158s/2000-2050mv is all I need to 150 yds. Stretching out to 200 yds or so, I could use a better trajectory for shot placement. No doubt, a 44 is highly under-rated deer thumper, as is the 357 - In a rifle. Ashame there are not more '41 cal' options.

Having successfully used a 6BR and 243, I personally would not consider the 250 as minimum, but conditions, bullet choice and placement all affect what is needed.

Another option for a handloader, use a 7.62x39 i.e. CZ carbine, loaded w/good 125-130gr bullets, it'll handle deer fine to 200. Lots of cheap plinking/practice ammo avail.

I use a Remington M7MS or FS in 308 for close & short. The picture has a 257 Roberts custom on a LA m700 action with a 24" barrel. The middle is a 20" barrel MS and the bottom a 18.5" barrel. For me the the 20" MS is much easier than the 18.5" barrel off hand. I have never shot a black tail deer but hunted 1 complete year with a 250 Savage with 120 gr Speer hot cores and killed several does & pigs without a problem. Since you only have to shoot a deer once, I don't see 308 recoil as that bad.

I have shot whitetails and cougars with both the BLR 358 and M 94 30-30 topped wih 2 1/2 Leupolds...

Do the same with a 77/44 and 300 grain paper patch. Runs ~1,600 fps out the snout and MOA'ish with a red dot. This one is plastic and stainless and gets the call during inclement weather, or swamp use. I imagine it would work fine out to 200 yards but doubt I'll find out in this life. I'm also a big fan of a receiver sighted Model 94 Trapper which has put one great big pile of meat in the cooler over the last 26 years.

Any of 'em will work if you know the rifle and your limitations with same. I avoid high magnification scopes in general but particularly for the ranges suggested by the OP. Steel K2.5s rock! That's just me, YMMV.