The use of magnum rifle primers with ball powders is often recommended, and I'm sure people get satisfactory results with and without magnum primers with ball powders. I'm thinking Winchester standard WLR primers would be particularly well-suited for use with ball powders in non-magnum cartridges because Winchester factory ammo is loaded (at least used to be loaded)almost exclusively with ball powders. Maybe a better question is, are Winchester non-magnum factory rounds loaded with WLR primers or is a different primer used?

I use standard large Primers in my 300 WSM shooting
760 powder. Also the 260 Rem.

Velocity and ES are very good.

It'd be fanciful to think that Winchester would use somebody else's primers in their ammo. For just one thing, they say their primers are specifically tailored for use with Ball� powders.

Some labs - Speer was once one - used an in-house rule to use magnum primers with ALL spherical powders, no matter what. That ignored such things as case capacity, which is a major consideration for primer choice. Lately, that inflexible rule seems to have been set aside, thank goodness. Current data books that I've seen now show a mix of standard versus magnum primers even with spherical powders. The choice may revolve around case capacity and the particular powder used - which are the two proper decision points, IMO.

About the only time I use Magnum Rifle Primer is in Magnum Cartridges, like the 7mm RM I currently shoot, my 338, I have worked up loads in 7 x 57 and 6.5 x 55 using the Hotter Primers for Cold weather hunting, and by cold weather, sub zero temps. I had one of only two hand loads in 43 years of Hand loading that were duds. It could have been the temps at the time it as 24 below Zero that whole trip ( 10 days) or it could have been just a bad primer or I gotten some sizing lube on one. Or just the cold. I never had a problem before or since. But like anything you do it long enough, and you will see some strange things. As for Accuracy, I never been able to tell that much from one primer brand to the next either standard or Magnum with respect to accuracy or having to adjust powder charges. then again I never when wild with my loads either.

Winchester standard primers are optimized for use with ball powder. They contain a primer mix that is hotter than standard primers, but not necessarily as hot as a "Magnum" primer. The mix burns hotter to ignite ball powder.

In general, large cases, slow powders and ball powders, and/or cold temperatures even in medium cases might benefit from a hotter or magnum primer, but Winchester standard primers work well as an all-around primer for a variety of powders.

TC

Years ago I followed a Speer recipe for 22-250 and used a magnum primer with a starting load with a ball powder and blew the extractor off of my Custom Sako.Case volume has everything to do with the use of a Magnum primer!!!!!

It is spooky that I have to agree......but I do

With 223 sized cases and ball powder, I always use magnum primers.

After a degradation of accuracy in a 7mm-08 with ball powder and standard primers as the temperatures dropped, I will be looking hard at the primers in the future. I can't say for sure that is the problem but it is top on my list of things to look at.

Really?

Then why are there Magnum small rifle and magnum small/large pistol primers?

None of those primers are ever used in cases larger than your 22-250.

a 22-250 would be a mag in my books.. bore diameter vs case capacity....

The mag primer didn't blow the extractor, it was the bad load data that did more than likely.
I run all mags in 223 cases well over 100K rounds fired in the competition years.... probably well more than that actually since it was up to 20K a year at times. And I ran probably 50/50 ball and extruded powder.

My rule.... try to take the best info you can IE what powder/primer combo is suggested most as a match... IE in 223 Varget and CCI BR4 and you need look no further..... and then I test.

I never write off a primer as I've ended up using every last one at some point or another in combos through a barrels life while playing with different stuff.

primers are one thing that I've noticed can cut a group in half or double or triple it by simply trying another primer with a certain powder in a safe load..

If the mag primer did not cause the pressure spike then why did the exact same load with a standard primer not show any presssure signs??????I have only found this to be true when using Ball Powders with a Mag primer.I never said I did not use it with other powders.The primers were CCI Mags.A friend had the same thing happen to him in his Remington 22 250.
The Gunsmith that repaired my bolt said he had repaired many rifles that had the same problem so it just aint me!!!!

Don't lose track of my second prime consideration: the particular powder used. Even among sphericals, there are lightly deterred and heavily deterred powders. That factor COUPLED WITH case capacity can dictate the choice between standard and magnum primer.

Any combination of large/small case (and graduations between) and heavily/lightly deterred powder (and graduations between) can change which is the best type primer to use. Then there are the different BRANDS of primers - and the graduations between! One company's standard might be equivalent to another company's magnum, or vice-versa.

If you cannot follow the book's EXACT recipe with ALL components, you are in uncharted seas, at least to an extent. Even then, a given rifle might react differently than expected. That's why we are universally reminded to begin with the mildest load listed - and be prepared to abandon a given combination at the first sign of trouble.

Yes...A magnum primer will raise the peak pressure spike in the same load if substituted for a standard primer. When making this substitution, or any substitution to a max load, it is always standard procedure to drop back a grain or two to compensate for the change.

As to blowing an extractor with the swap, I would suspect that the original load with a standard primer may have been overpressure to start with, even though there may have been no visual over pressure signs.

TC

The word hotter is often used loosely in this context. Do you literally mean degrees Fahrenheit?

"Hotter" primers may produce a larger volume of combustion product, burn for a longer duration, exhibit higher brisance, or a combination of all three while doing so at the same temperature as a standard primer.

It was a starting load.I was able to go to a max load with standard primers with no pressure signs.

Right, I saw that.

My point is that a load that is safe with a standard primer can be overpressure with a mag primer...it might be 10k or more difference. When you make any substitution you need to drop the charge.

But it would seem reasonable that a "starting load" would be safe with a minor component change, I would probably tend to look at it the same way.

Personally, I am very skeptical of the Speer data. In the older manuals, on some loads was a statement that they didn't pressure test the loads but that they appeared to be safe in the rifle tested....WTF?

TC

Yeah this was in the early 70`s.I used the Speer manual cause thats what came with my RCBS reloading kit.I invested in other manuals pretty fast after that.WTF was pretty much what I thought also!!!

How true!!! About 10 years after I started reloading for the '06 with 4895 I picked up a new Speer #7 manual (1966). The STARTING load for the 130 grain bullet was listed at 53.0 grains of 4895, and the maximum load was listed at 57.0 grains. If you split the difference, like I know some folks do, you would have a load with 55.0 grains of 4895 with the 130 grain bullet. The current Speer manual (#13) lists the MAXIMUM as 51.5 grains of 4895 with the 130 grain bullet.

Guess that's why some trusting reloaders carry a hammer to open the bolt, if the 10% overcharge of powder didn't already do that.

Wayne

From day one, I've used magnum primers in my 22-250 and 250 savage because I use H380 in them. I also use them in my 260 because I burn Rel-22 and want the best burn possible. I have never had pressure issues with magnum primers as long as the powder charge is a listed one.

I never really considered this issue. But, it seems to me that for large capacity case with a long powder column, a magnum primer might work best, while for standard or compact cases a standard primer might suffice. The greater brisance (flash) of the magnum primers seems to be better at igniting long powder columns.

Forgot about this thread... lets just say there should be no way, using a starting load, that a mag primer would do that. Heck not all mag primers are even all that hot... I"ve seen some testing at some point that showed one match primer as hot as one mag primer....

You are always in uncharted waters if you don't follow everythign to a T, but that being said, if you use the bottom load as a starter I fail to see that a primer caused the issue. The only way would be super tight throat, chamber, over weight case IE less internal capacity, tight dimensioned bore, large bullet, etc.... where you would get a lot of things stacked up against you.

That was my thinking as well. However, that doesn't, or didn't previously, hold true for the powders they use. I acquired a whole pile of 225 Winchester Super Speed and Super-X ammo which has what looks like a DuPont IMR 4064 propellant in it. (It's older yellow-box ammo, consequently my thinking that it may be DuPont.)

jim62-

There are a couple of exceptions. Some special runs of larger rifle cases, e.g. 308 and 30-30, have been made to take small rifle primers, usually for competition. The 450 Bushmaster cartridge uses small rifle primers. I suspect there are others.

--Bob

Never had ignition problems with my 7x57, F210s, and W760, even in temps down to zero. Point, squeeze, get out the knife.