Which is better in the 22-250 with 60gr and heavier bullets?

I hate to state the obvious, but if both are listed as acceptable powders in the manuals, the only way to know in YOUR rifle is to load a few with each, in various charge weights, and check the on-target and over-the-chronograph performance.

If I had to guess, and a guess is all it would be, I'd say Varget. The powders are so close that there is no real way to say what is best. Then again, it's more what is acceptable accuracy when we are talking what the rifle is used for. If you went through all the acceptable powders and built the best loads for each you would start burning out the barrel before you were done.


I built ultimate loads for a 22-250 and a 243. I actually made the cases for the 22-250 from 243 brass ( that's hard to do) and turned the necks to .005 (I think) below chamber. Now that rifle will put them in the same hole literally. That accuracy means nothing in the field, a dead chuck at 400 yards is a dead chuck.

Funny though, I loaded some cheap Winchester 45 grain bullets with 13 grains of Unique for fire forming. Dang load is accurate, like 5/8 inch at 100. Comes in handy when I'm close to barns and houses. It's like shooting a hornet.

Is varget bulkier than H-4895? I've never loaded varget is why I ask.

H-4895 is very slightly more dense. Theoretically the Varget should fill the case slightly more per weight than the H-4895. When I do this i go with what I want to work. Varget goes through the measure better. Since I'm tossing a coin on what I think will be best, might as well try what I want to work first.

Another thing to ask is, when you say "better", how do you mean that?

Best accuracy, highest velocities (with the slightly heavier than "normal" bullets), etc.?

In other words, which is more important?

Absolute accuracy regardless of velocity, or max speed with the heavier bullets, even if it means giving up a little accuracy (though obviously still staying within acceptable, whatever they are, accuracy guidelines)?

I'd like top accuracy and velocity. I'm about to start loading the 22-250 and need to get some powder to start with so was wanting some input on where to start. Both powders look like good ones. I want an extreme powder to reduce temperature sensitivity.

Varget looks like it will fill the case better.

Varget is a skosh slower and a little bulkier, too.
I basically use them side by side, one or the other will make a great load under your bullet.
Both powders will work well in the 22-250, or should, the Varget will likely be more appropriate for the heavier bullets.
I cooked up some loads under 55s for a couple of 250s (not mine) and they both shot well with Varget without any scary events. If I remember right, case fill percentage was not an issue. Plenty of room, but not too much.
Take a look at load data for both powders, that will show you which has the most zoom for each bullet weight.
One issue you want to watch with both powders is filling the case at the 100 percent mark, depending on your seating depth.
I (and others) have found that when I have bullets making intermediate contact with the powder column, they "stack" inconsistently, which shows up downrange.
You can tamp, or jiggle, or shuffle the case and powder before seating, or charge it "just so" -- but it's a pain in the butt.
You can "crunch" the powder, or have it "almost" fill but not quite, and both are more consistent than if the powder is "kissing" the bullet base.

Which ever one give you the best accuracy

Yes, the accuracy rules. 100-150 fps don't really mean much.

Dave, in your experience then I need a compressed load?

If you were talking a 223 then I would say Varget would be my first choice and H-4895 my second choice.........in a 22-250 with 60gr and heavier bullets I would not choose either, I would choose a powder of more appropriate burn rate like starting with Win760 or H414(same powder different package), if you dont like the ball powders then go with one of the 4350 clones, my personal favorite with a 22-250 and heavies is IMR4831 followed by VVN160.
H4895, and Varget will work but will give you high ES and SD's because the burn rate is too fast

I would be looking at H380...

How is 380 for temperature sensitivity?

I like H4895 due to the fact it'll ignite just fine, and give acceptable accuracy even with loads that are a full 40% down off of maximum loads. It sure makes it easy to ease little kids up to higher speed loads seamlessly.

perhaps the most temp. sensetive powder ever....
that I have tried

Not sure I would like that. I shoot in the summer in 100+ and in the teens in winter. The Hodgdon Extreme powders help with this.

LP,

Been reloading the 22-250 for about 30 years now.

During that time I have tried just about every powder in it with 40-60g slugs.

IMHO, it's hard to beat Varget. With just about any bullet weight, it performs the same as H4895. Between the two- your rifle will decide the question.

One down side about Varget is the more you try it in OTHER cartridges the more is will replace other powders. I have had such good luck with Varget in light to medium weight slugs with everything from 22-250s to 30-06's that it is has replaced several other powders on my bench.

As to an even better powder- Hodgdon is about to release the new Superformance powders they make for Hornday. The data on Hodgdon's site shows 3,750 PFS with that powder behind a 60g slug. That's a full 200 FPS faster than other powders generate.

In the meantime, I would be sure and give Varget a shot.

LBP,
You have to understand that temp sensitivity is relative to what you are using it in. for example Varget is far less temp. sensitive in a .223 Rem than it is in a 22-250. in a .223Rem it is a slower burning powder but in a 22-250 with heavy bullets it is a fast burning powder.
Dont be sucked into the hype "EXTREME" thinking you have better temp sensitivity, you also have to choose appropriate burn rate.

I shoot a lot of both powders in my 22-250, using 55gr Sierra BTHP's. 34.0 IMR 4895, 35.5 Varget.
Velocities are close enough that it does't matter, avg is 3650-3675. Accuracy is SUPERB!
I have not shot anything heavier than 55 grains, so can't comment.
Either way, you have a winner.

BS.

There is no "hype" in the Extreme powders. It is not contingent on the burn rate vs case capacity.

I have Varget loads for 22-250s using 37.5 g and one load for a 110 g V max with 60g in a 30-06.

Both loads shoot the same in freezing weather or extreme heat.

Jim, how does Varget fill the cases? Someone on here said I needed a Compressed load or it would string shots. Never heard that but could be I guess.

I guess your experience is different than mine, with 40gr slugs I agree with you that Varget is great, with 60's it would NEVER be my choice in a 22-250

Go on Hodgdon's reloading data site and compare the pressure/velocity relationships of Varget vs just about ANY other powder they list for a 60g slug.

The Varget hangs with any of them. Better in fact, than it does with lighter bullets.

Geez, how blind I am!!You asked about H-4895, not the IMR .
IMR and H-4895 are VERY close in burn rates and loadings.
But, check your manuals to be sure.
Get faster MV's with H, better accuracy with IMR in my rifle.
But to settle one thing, all I use now is Varget.

I agree BS..... if you really believe that your loads shoot the "same" in freezing weather or extreme heat you are full of schitt and need to shoot your loads through a chronograph in such conditions.
If you dont think that appropriate burn rate also plays a part then you are also full of schitt once again.......go back to school jimmy and come back with a better attitude

Look, Varget is just about THE most stable of all the Hodgdon extreme powders in terms of temp variation.

Of course there is SOME variation in wide temp ranges, but NOTHING like other powders. No matter what case they are used in.

When you claim there is NO advantage to Extreme powders or their temp stability does not exist or only exists when a powder is used in a certain sized case-, sorry, that's BS.

I already shot down your claim that Varget does not work well with heavy bullets in the 22-250 with Hodgdon's OWN data.

Perhaps you should contact HODGDON with your "findings" so they can stop wasting their time with the Extreme powder line.
Maybe they could hire you as a lab technician.. You seem certain that you know more about their own product than THEY do...

You sound like a guy who dotes on Alliant and IMR powders and has an axe to grind against the Hodgdon Extremes.

In any case, you've provided no data to back up your claims other than snarky remarks.

Varget is sweet stuff, nice in the .308 as well, and even the .375 H&H

L,

I have not seen that with Varget at all. It does not seem to need any compression.

It's produced sub 1/2" groups in a factory barreled 22-250 with several bullets and done right at 1/2" in a 30-06 Mauser with 110g V max slugs. Neither load is compressed and I don't see how the accuracy could be much better.

I think I will give Varget a try first and H-4895 if the Varget dosn't work out. I appreciate the help.

LP

Good luck.

Really, I don't think with either powder you are going to have a tough time finding a good load for that 22-250 with the 60g slugs.

Unless ,of course your rifle does not like heavy bullets due to twist rate etc, then that's a hole 'nother kettle of fish..

jim62,
you might be getting just a little bit over zealous.
I had a couple 22-250's that both loved H380 with 55gr NBT's, I later bought a 220 swift and tried H380 with 55gr NBT's in that rifle as well.
The 220 swift has a slightly larger case capacity than a 22-250 and is absolutely more temp sensetive with H380 than it is with a 22-250.

Also if you notice all of hodgon's Extreme powders are extruded.
Most other manufacturers extruded powders are close, for the most part(not all, so dont fly off the deep) it is the ball powders that are the least temp. sensetive

not directly relevant to the 22-250 but moreso to the powders being discussed...

years back my coyote hunting partner and i both used .243s w/85gr SGKs and imr 4895...

he started experimenting with the 70 ballistic tip and found that varget worked much better for him with that bullet...
i liked the 70 ballistic tip but got less than desired results with either imr 4895 or varget...a friend tipped me off to the possibilities of RL15, and i found the sweet spot for my rifle, with that bullet...

as said above, you can't try every load in the books, and the rl15 info was not in any book. i called the manufacturer about it for guidance...

just be aware of other avenues...