Hey guys,

I have often heard that H414 and W760 are about, or more or less, the same powder. I note in the Speer #14 manual that under the 7-08 they list the same powder charge (start and max) for both powders for the 115, 130 and 160 gr bullets (of all designs) but a difference of 2 and 3 grains, respectively, for the 140 and 175 gr bullets.

My question is are they 'very similar' or are they 'the same'? I'd like to know if I can use the W760 info in Nosler's manual for H414 in my .375 Holly. I've never used Win powder so can't read the label to see if it's made by Hodgdon.

Thanks.

They are exactly the same powder in different canisters. Any differences in performance seen in loading manuals are due to different manufacturing lots.

So yes, you can use 414/760 data interchangeably.

I believe that they are different lots of the same powder. The charges, velocitites and pressures in the Hodgdon yearly handloading magazine are the same for both.

If you check Hodgdon's site online, you will see that they are identical. They list the same charge weight, velocity and pressure for both.

Thanks guys,

Now that you mention it, I remember them being the same on Hodgdon's site which reminded me that Hodgdon owns the Win powders, don't they? Anyway, thanks for the confirmation and, boy, that was fast!

I have heard the same about 748, and H335, is this true also?

No.

is h 414 known to be very temp stable??

Frankly? I don't know. What I do know is I do all my load work up in Tucson's very hot summer time. Temperatures of 100 to 110 degrees are quite common at this time of year. Usually my hunts are at higher altitude and it can be a bit below freezing in the morning and quite warm by two in the afternoon. I use the W760 version but I imagine it makes no difference as they are the same powder. Maybe it just hasn't been cold enough where I hunt that it made any real difference. At least none that I noticed. Maybe if it was a lot colder I might see a difference. I do use a of W760 though. I like the powder.
Paul B.

It isn't bad, in my experience, though not as temperature-resistant as some newer powders.

Note that I use the term "resistant," not stable. ALL powders will gain some velocity at temperatures over 70 degrees, but the more temp-resistant ones will gain less.

In cold weather, many newer powders will produce just about the same velocities at least down to zero degrees Fahrenheit, and often even lower. Some other powders will lose considerable velocity.

Also, even temp-resistant powders will sometimes lose or gain more velocity than expected when used outside the pressure they're designed for, or in cartridges where another powder would work better. One of my friends at a major pressure-lab used the example of Hodgdon Varget with 140-grain bullets in the .260 Remington. There are much better powders for that use, and even though Varget was the original Hodgdon Extreme, it doesn't act like it when misapplied.

For the record, the official H/W pairings are:

HP38=W231

HS-6=W540

HS-7=W571

H110=W296

H414=W760

As mentioned, H335 is NOT W748. Also note that both HS-6 and W540 are discontinued, but stocks of both remain on shelves and under reloaders' benches.

aint 748 and blc-2 the same now also

Close, perhaps, but not the same powder. AFAIK

This thread is interesting. I have a stock of Winchester ball powders from the late 70's. Left overs from when an uncle decided ball powder was the new best thing and switched to Winchester ball.

I never got decent accuracy from any of it. Never got W748 to shoot well in anything, same with W760. Got some Hodgen 414 and it shot pretty good. I'd have sworn H414 was far superior to W760. Guess that's how urban legends are born.

O

You musta never tried 760 in the .300 Sav. with 180's. If you did, you'd have found a very accurate load. Not the fastest but a lights out kinda load.

Ya need to try 748 in the .30-30, too.

+1....748 is THE powder in a .30-30

760 works wonderfully in just about everything from the .22/250 to the .460 Weatherby. I have tended to stay with it as one of my preferred powders because it has proven an accurate performer and the temperature fluctuations people claim are mostly out of hunting temperatures for most people. In fact, it will work in any cartridge you would use a 4350 powder and "tend" to burn just a little faster.

I have used it at 20 to 120 degrees and never missed an animal, meaning, if I fluffed the shot, it was me, and the next one brough it down.

One rider though, I have recorded up to 3.2% (2 grain) fluctuations in burning rate in '06 sized case volumes so like any powder, it requires rechecking loads with any new batch and for serious shooters, buy the kegs, once you determine the worth of a particular powder for your handoading.

John

I have quite a bit of older powder such as 760 or 748. while I think 414 and 760 are the same Today I don't trust that my old 760 is. so I use old reloadng data for it.


760 always worked well for me in the 308 also with 150 gr

"Also note that both HS-6 and W540 are discontinued"

W540 is no longer in production but HS-6 is still being produced.

HS-7 and W571 have both been discontinued......I miss HS-7.

My chrono has shown that with *my* lots of powders H414 is a little faster than W760. With some mild loads in a 30/06 and 110 gr. bullet, the H414 was ~150 fps faster.

I think you will still find that it is a batch difference. I have tested 760 and H 414 side by side with the same componets and the variation was the normal 20 or so FPS you will find with any chronograph variation.

John

Agree. Guess I should mix all my H414 and W760 into one big batch and roll it around awhile.

I would not agree with that unless you are mixing the last spoonful with a fresh pound. (Thoroughly)
Better to work out a load for use and see if they shoot to the same point.


John

Why not mix them. Same size, etc. They're *supposed* to be the same, so I'd just be normalizing batch/lot differences.

It's not like mixing ball with stick powders.

If you have quite a bit of both 760 and 414, and would prefer it all acted the same, blending them together wouldn't hurt anything.

I did that with H110 and W296 after finding out they were the same powder, instead of trying "both" to find out which was better in a certain load!