is it enough ? What do you guys think ?

BC grizzlies think it is enough.

And then some...!

Dober

What happens when it pencils thru...then what?

All I know, and FWIW, the flat base 200 TSX outta a 300 win mag just kills the chit out of wild pigs.

That's a wicked looking bullet.

Fubar...

If, I was shooting a cape buff I'd use the 200 TSX but not on a mtn griz but dats just my way.

Dober

Yes. From stem to stern.

I know the 168TTSX work great in my 300 so the 200 grainers have to work mo better!

No way I would use 200 TSX for that Bear, much rather have a 200 grain Nosler Partition.
The game I have Killed with Barnes Bullet seam to take longer to expire. I think you would get faster kills with the Partition. Just food for thought.
I have seen Two Grizzly Bears killed with 300 Win. Mag. one guy used 200 grain Nosler Accubond and the other used 180 grain Nosler B/T Each of them Bears went down at the shot. DRT (Dead Right There)

Like Mark said, use that bullet for Buffalo.

Just food for thought.

Then again it might work just fine, I just wouldn't use it.

Wish you luck

Precisely. Mo' better to go faster with something lighter.

After seeing two TSX bullets from a 375 H&H not exit one moose, I would prefer Partitions to do massive damage.

They don't pencil through at all, but leave some nice exit wounds. Been on quite a few hunts with my cousin and he has been rocking this same bullet/cartridge combo for the past couple of years with a factory stainless Model 70. I believe he's killed 6-8 deer, 6' black bear and a bull caribou so far.

Not always but they do and can, just a thunk...

53 TSX out of a 223 on a lope. (not a 30 cal/200 I get it but..)

Dober

In the 300 WM i don't think you could do better for Bear than the 180 gr or 200 gr TXS. My experience with the TXS they kill very quick and you don't recover many bullets.

Well I'd go lighter...

With the monolithics, velocity adds much to the terminal effects. A faster moving 168 TTSX will hit harder and provide penetration to spare.

Also, as it's a rather long bullet, I'd be concerned with the 200 TSX continuing to fly point forward after the initial impact...that will affect penetration dramatically.

A 200 Accubond is a good choice in that weight, but the 168 will still out-penetrate the AB.

TC

I have never killed a mountain grizzly but I am a internet expert on such matters and that trumps everything.

Don't do it!

1. a 223 is not a big game cartridge.
2. must have been tough searching miles of sagebrush to find that bullet after it "penciled through" eh ?
3. respect the game and use an appropriate cartridge. A friend's tiny wife (90 pounds) killed a 5X5 Elk at 100 odd yards with a 243 and an 80 gr TTSX. Took out both lungs, 2" exit hole. He went 20 yards spraying blood that a blind man could have followed, laid down and died.
4. I'd rather have a bullet that "penciled through" after breaking both shoulders than one that blew up and left a 8"" wide crater 2" deep after striking a major bone.(idiot who shot a big Mulie at 80 yards with a 135 .277 SMK from a 270 Weatherby. happily the guide shooting a 30-06 with 150 gr TSX was backing him up. while the "dude" was standing there waiting for the animal to drop, the guide put one behind the last rib as it ran away. He plied up in 30 yards, bullet not recovered, must have "penciled through".)
5. momometals are taking over. even Hornady has brought one out for their special lever action ammo beacuse they work better.

EOS

This just might get good!

I beleive that you recovered that bullet from a dead critter

A hole through the vitails does wonders

This is the Lazzeroni philosophy that has proven to be false many more times than it has been true.
IMHO I would use a 200gr AB........whatever bullet you choose in this weight class I have found H1000 the powder of choice in my rifles.

Personaly I would use the 165/168 or the 180 and would stay away from extremely long bullets. When a monometal bullet is not properly stabilized it will often have enough wobble to bend the point and inhibit expansion as well as pentration

The 200 TTSX is too long IMHO

True we did, but the critter sure as hell wasn't dead because of this slug...!

Dober

I think you will find it was a Barnes marketing strategy as well, when they first introduced the X Bullet. GS bullets also make lighter monometals for the same reason.

I know Plains Game are better taken with a 150 monometal X from a .300 magnum than anything heavier. 200 grain in a .300 ? Use a bonded or conventional bullet.

Some very good opinions here, the same gun shoots the 175 LRX very well at 3100 FPS...Maybe I should take that instead of the 200 grainer ?

Why don't you send 458WIN a PM? He is an expert on griz.

I really don't see the need for a 200 grain solid like this in 30 cal unless you are trying to stretch it into a hippo or buff rifle. Bears aren't that big. I'll bet it would work, but having shot over 10 bull elk with 165s and never recovering a single one, I think that you would not need to go bigger than 180 and acquire any of the problems that accompany those LONG bullets.

If I did a hunt as "exotic" as that, I would probably use a leaded bullet. If you want 200 grains, maybe a A-frame or Partition. If you want to use the Barnes, I suggest a 180 is more than enough.

now that right there is scarey. Mark, i was thinking tsx in my pre-64 243 for BIG deer. What do you think? Do you think ttsx is better? I worry about sciroccos opening if it's a 400 yd shot.

I took a big 30 and 200 Partitions on my mountain grizz hunt. It worked. 211 yards and the bear went from eating blueberries to dead. Never took a step. A Partition would be tought to beat.

I've recovered some very nasty-looking, parasite damaged lungs from moose, which died because of a different parasite......one holding a 30-30 Winchester.

As you will recall, I've also had monos "pencil in" without penciling through. Shooting a large game animal more than once has never been a bad thing IME. (I don't sweat which bullet got the job done first.)

Exactly a pointed bullet that doesn't open is going yaw, tip and or tumble

Yes, it's enough. This 8-1/2' Tundra Grizz taken North of Nome in 2008 did a front roll, up on his feet to start running and hit again, a few inches from 1st shot, dropped in his tracks with 2nd shot from 300 WSM and 180 TTSX from 157 yds.


Second bullet recovered.


Alan

I loaded up some 200 gr Partitions a few years back for my brothers 300 Weatherby. Works real good. He's killed a big handful with them. I think the TSX bullets are fantastic, but that whole "penceling thru deal" would make me think twice about using one on a Grizzly.

Just a thought...

The only thing close to personal experience with a 200 TSX(tipped or not) and grizzlies I've had was when the guy who went into the same Alaskan camp a couple of years ago got his bear with 200 TSX's from a .300 Winchester Magnum.

Or at least he partially did. He hit the bear OK but not perfectly with the first shot, and eventually the hunter and the guide put 9 bullets into it. (The guide used a .338 Winchester Magnum and 225 AccuBonds, as did two other guides from the same lodge.)

I heard the story from both the hunter and guide, though separately. I also got to gaze at the skinned carcass of the bear for several days while glassing for my bear. It had a number of bullet holes in it, but even ravens weren't bothering it much. Dunno why.

It was also a very big carcass. The guide (who'd been guiding in Alaska for 25-30 years) claimed it was a genuine 9-foot bear, but we were hunting where B&C calls them brown bears and SCI calls them grizzlies, about 150 miles from the nearest coast.

That's all I know.

I used the 80TTSX last year out of the 243 on two deer--the bullet opened fine and penetrated completely; however, it does not make as big of a hole as a normal softpoint bullet does.

That may be another advantage to the shorter monos; I've seen some pretty obvious "tumbler" effects when the get sideways - nice exit paths that way.

I'll be trying the 175 gr LRX in my .300 WSM this year. Not to many reports on the LRX so far.

I see a lot of guys on here scared of the 200 grainers "not stabilizing", "tumbling", and "penciling through". The common denominator? None of them speak of ever actually USING it on game.

A few years back I took a lot of game in BC with my 300Wby, with premium bullets from 165ers at 3370 to the 200s at 3050. Goats, bear, bison, moose, you name it. The only conclusion I reached is that one killed as fast as the others. The 165 grainers fried moose, and the 200 grainers certainly didn't tumble.

I would happily use the 200.

One doesn't need to use every weight in every caliber to get some understanding of what works and is necessary. Perhaps the 200 would be suited, if much more than necessary on grizzlies, in an UltraMag or other very large case. I don't think anyone has suggested that it won't work in the Win Mag either. If you've used the likes of even a 180 in nothing more than a 30-06, you can easily understand that you are over-thinking and over-solving the problem in applying the very long 200 to bears which aren't generally huge. BTW, I didn't notice whether you had used the 200 TTSX or not either. I'm assuming not as I don't think it has been available for very long. Speed is never a bad thing with monos which is part of what favors lighter bullets IMO.

I'd happily use the 200 NPT, Accu, GK or HC but would prefer to not use the TTSX/TSX. I'd use it if I had to but would just prefer not to is all.

Now a 168 TSX/TTSX I'd use in a heart beat!

Dober

Just curious Why would you use a 168gr TTSX and not a 175,180,or 200 grain TTSX..?

Out of a 300wm the 168 TTSX shoot fast which helps then expand a little more reliably!

Not speaking for Dober but this is why I choose this particular weight!

Good question:

The answer is because traditional cup and core bullet were designed in ever increasing weights to counter the loss of weht during expansion and penetration. This is why 150gn bullet may be a traditional choice for use on deer in a .30/06 and the user could step up to a 180 or 200 grainers for heavier game using the same rifle.

The concept of the "X" bullet and their clones, is to retain 100% or near to it weight retention thereby permiting flatter trajectory with commensurate reductions in recoil.

The concept works, which is why the other bullet manufactuers jumped on the principle.

If you shoot game with a 150gn X bullet, it will penetrate deeper than most cup and Core bullets up to 200 grains weight and still hold together in bones are hit. Manay of the experienced handloads here, have opted for the middle ground which is why the 168gn version is popular and being designed and produced as a match grade bullet, gived people confidence in their choice.

John

As has been previously implied, our mt. grizzlies aren't all that big. You don't need that stout of a bullet. Any well-constructed bullet - the same you'd use for elk or moose -from 165 to 180 grains will do fine in your 300.

They like speed period. There is NO reason to use heavy for caliber X's, unless you are using big bores. The heaviest I would go is a 165 in .30 caliber for bear. It will penetrate from stem to stern and stir up the innards well.

I have shot critters with 3 different calibers using various X bullets. I have been present with many others, so this is not based on speculation. When shot slow with heavy for caliber, they are iffy and often pencil through. When shot fast, they kill like lightening and exit most of the time, unless a LOT of bone is hit. Above 3,200 fps., they have few rivals for wrecking bone and still getting exit holes.

I shot this 70 grain X's in a .22-250 for wild boar one year. These are leaving the muzzle at 3,100. This bullet was recovered from the off shoulder of a 90 lb. sow at 300 yards. Yes, she died, but the bullet wasn't too impressive. This weight of bullet didn't do much for me. I dropped down to the 53 grain X's and things went MUCH better.


Far right one was recovered from a small mule deer buck at 410 yards. I was shooting down on this buck as it was feeding away from me. The bullet took out 4 inches of back bone and ended up in the front shoulder.

Middle one was 350 yard trophy white tail, shot just right of the tail in the pelvic as he was walking away (yes, this is where I was aiming) Bullet was found in front shoulder after raking through a lot of bone.

Left bullet was recovered from a Texas Long horn off side shoulder (bullet smashed a lot of big bones). Bull was shot at 100 yards. These are all 100 grain XLC's leaving the muzzle at 3,500 fps. out of a .25-284.

Hey Flinch some of those appear to be partitions that lost the front half, is that what those wadd cutters are...grin

Dober

Most dangerous mushroom in the woods I love crunching bone, so this is the light fast bullet I like in the .25-284. Even with the lost petals, they still weigh more than the best partition Flinch

This is all starting to make sense, I think I will go with the 175 LRX @ 3100fps..

Good choice

The short answer to the question is - YES

Oooh. Scary blue bullets!

Have used the 200 TSX on a Alaskan mountain grizzly and was not happy with the results Dead bear but it took a long time and yes it did pencil through...more than once. Will be hunting them again this fall, same caliber, loaded with 200 partitions.

Lefty C

I have had no problems with an "X" bullets I have ever used or been on hunts where others used them. My personal experience is limited to 7mm, 308 and 338 calibers. The foregoing said, I have talked to several friends, including a game warden who saw it twice in one year, where small caliber X type bullets failed to expand and penciled through. The game warden said that he recovered a 270 cal TSX from a elk that was the 3rd one that it killed. He said that the bullet looked like you could reload it and shoot it again! They eventually recovered all three elk and the hunter got a ticket of course.

I have heard of several 22 cal and 6mm cal failures to expand but never a larger caliber. I wouldn't use the 200 grain as my bullet unless there was another compelling reason. These bullets really like speed to do their thing.


I have hunted wild feral cattle before. The most recent was a very large bull that weighed about 1800 lbs. After my experiences with 165 grain X type bullets, I decided that my 300 WBY was plenty and I loaded it up with 180 X bullets. The first round took him square through the shoulder at 250 yds. He reacted like he was bit by a fly- swating with his tail. I watched him for about 10 seconds and no more reaction. I shot again and this time he ran down a draw towards me. I had two more bullets in the mag, both were 220 grain A-square Mono solids.

I got in front of him and he was hell-bent on steam-rolling me. I casually shot him in the shoulder, twice with the 220s and all he did was change his lead. He was bearing down on me when my buddy ended it with a 180 grain soft point to the ear from his 30-06.

NONE of the bullets exited him. None other than the head shot had much impression on him. Bottom line, 308s are not for dangerous very heavy game!

The bullet on the left is what killed this bull...quickly! .25-284 penetrated to the offside shoulder, just under the skin. Flinch

Most BC MTN Griz will not top 450 lbs. More like 350 lb.
A 200 gr mono will do it but I would lean to 160 or 180 ish monos.
I think you'll find the 175 LRX plenty good enuf to geterdun.
Best of luck on your hunt.

I whacked this guy with a 200gr TTSX @ 2850 fps this spring. He went about 15' after taking one behind the shoulder at about yards

There are a few exceptions like the hungry hill grizz that topped 1000 lbs.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/bobkh/387625744/

Hah! The exception to the rule no doubt.
When you look at his diet Beef, beef and beef no wonder. LOL
BTW..thanx for posting that link cool story.

I have used the 175 gr 7mm X on a number of animals and it always performed well even on very light game. This was before the going two steps lighter in weight with mono bullets theory was promoted.

I have had that combo in hand with a Bear snapping its teeth and looking agitated but never had to use it on one.

I would think the 200 would do the same with the TTSX supposedly much improved over the original. It is one of the best for finisher shots on a going away bear or a security shot on one down in the Alders. But all of the controlled expansion bullets over about 165 grains would work.

For every Barnes that pencilled through I would think that there would be twice as many Noslers that tumbled and finished the course going backwards. I have complete confidence in both bullets even though *hit happens.

I'd probably use a 180gr TSX. I've also got some 175gr LRX that I need to load up and test out.