Other than the use by western cowboys or Pancho Villa's troops has the Winchester 94 or Marlin leveractions ever been used in combat ?

I figured some third world country had to use them around the turn of the century ?

In the book, "Military Rifle and Machine gun Cartridges" by Jean Huon (c 1986), a description of the 30-30 says:

"The 30-30 Winchester is a very popular round used all over the world by hunters and shooters. It appeared in 1894, ad is still manufactured today. Although never adopted as a service cartridge, it has seen limited use as issue ammo in many countries including China, the United States, South Africa, Mexico, several South American countries and France. Some horse-drawn wagon drivers and mountain troops used the Winchester carbines during World War I.

I also recall reading that 30-30 Winchesters were used by US Army guards in guarding WWI POW's and US military prisoners. Not exactly combat, but used by military forces.

Not military, but the Winchester 94 was the duty rifle for the Oregon State Police up until about 8 years ago. I have a buddy that's an OSP Trooper; he bought his '94 from the OSP when they made the transition to the AR15 platform. It's a very slick pre '64 with a little bit of trunk wear...

Chrome;
Up here in BC during WWII, the group protecting the coast and some other key points - the Pacific Coast Mountain Rangers - carried both '94s and Marlins in .30-30.

http://www.navalandmilitarymuseum.org/resource_pages/coastal_defence/pcmr.html

If you enlarge the photo part way down the page on the left, you can plainly see they're all packing lever action carbines.

If I'm not mistaken, the Rocky Mountain Ranger group may also have been armed with lever rifles when doing duties in country, but I can't find verification of that this morning, so will only say that is an "I think" and certainly not an "I know".

http://www.army.gc.ca/iaol/143000440001133/index-Eng.html

The Rocky Mountain Rangers certainly did see combat, in the Aleutian campaign among other areas, but I suspect they either ran the standard .303 when there or were issued Garand's and BAR's instead of SMLE and Brens if attached to US companies.

At the gun shows in this part of the world, there are usually a few collectors who set up some wonderful displays of uniforms, kits and rifles from the PCMR units.

Hopefully that was some use to you Chrome.

All the best in the upcoming weekend.

Regards,
Dwayne

The 1895 Winchester was used by Turkish troops, I believe, in one of their fights against the Russians. I don't know the caliber, but I've read this before.

Gene L;
Again going off of a very faulty memory this morning, I recall reading that the Russians bought a fair pile of 95's chambered for the same 7.62 round that fit the Mosin Nagant.

edit:
Wiki says 70% of the 300,000 made went to the Russians! That would be some "warehouse find" would it not?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winchester_Model_1895

To the best of my knowledge they've never resurfaced as surplus arms coming out of any of the former Soviet states - at least we've not seen them up here.

I have seen old 95's chambered in 7.62 Russian and .303 British up here, though the most common seem to be .30-40 Krag - marked .30 US I think? We see mainly the rifles up here, though a friend of mine does have a really nice .30 US carbine with the Lyman 21(?) sight on the side of the receiver.

Hopefully that was some use to someone out there this fine summer morning.

All the best to you Gene L on the upcoming weekend.

Regards,
Dwayne

The 1895 was never chambered in 30-30. There were some 1895's tested by the US in the Phillipines and they were in .30-40 Krag. The Russians also bought a large number of 1895's in 7.62X54R for the Czar's army.

I do wonder whatever happend to those M1895's that went to Russia. I'd love to see them come back home to loving homes!

COuld get $1,000 bucks each if in good condition.

But I expect those are staying in the USSR.

BMT

I certainly would volunteer to adopt one!

Too late, guys. They came home forty years ago. If you snooze, you lose!
--Bob

Why discount the use in the Mexican Revolution - isn't that combat, or do you have a bias against Mexico?

M-1985s were probably melted down to make tanks during the Great Patriotic Was.

I seem to recall reading somewhere about some U.S. Army Air Corp fliers and support troops who were stationed in Kenya during WW2 shooting plains game with Winchester 94s in 30-30 that was part of their survival kit. IIRC, these guys were in some way involved in ferrying aircraft from the U.S. to the USSR. Maybe it was in Sam Fadala's book on the 30-30.

JEff

The 95 Winchesters were still used in WW2. A friend brought
one back from the meeting at the Elbe. The rifle the turks
used was a 73 Winchester in 44/40. It was the assault rifle
of the time.

There is a song from the Mexican Revolution, "Carabina .30-30", with the opening line ".30-30 carbine that was carried by the rebels..."

I don't know what rifles the government troops were armed with at the time, perhaps Mausers.

Paul

I'll take 2!

I can hear my old man right now, "Hell son, you can't find the durn ammo, and who the hell wants to shoot a Russky cartridge, when we got so many good American ones?

Sycamore

Carabina 30-30
Que los rebeldes portaban
Y Decian los maderistas
Que con ella no mataban

A few showed up in Kores and RVN

Not to quibble, but January 1962 is only four months shy of being fifty years ago. Of course back then $34.95 was about $34 more than I could muster. How time flies!

I was talking to my dad years ago, he was on a navy ship at the end of WW-II and went from island to island in the Pacific that we bypassed. His job was to go with a shore party and tell the japanese there that the war was over. He said that the carried lever action rifles. He discribed it and it sure sounded like a 95.

erich

The Winchester 94 .30-30 was the issue rifle for the Los Angeles Sheriff's Dept., for many, many years, up until fairly recently (25 years ago or so) when they switched to the Colt AR 15. I have seen racks of those 94s still in the LASD Armory ... just a'waitin', just in case. That said, however, they might have been phased out by now, as the last time I was in the LASD Armory was in 1997.

L.W.

Fairly recently I read that there are still a lot of '95's in Russian warehouses and they are for sale. However they are demanding a high price and nobody has stepped forward to invest in them. It might have been in American Rifleman.

Geronimo used a winchester in combat but not sure of caliber. Here is a staged photo with an empty rifle probably given to him by a US soldier just for the photo after his capture. wonder where that rifle went?

I've seen more than a couple of those Russian '95's and every one has been in rather good to great condition. They didn't prove to be a really good military weapon, but they were very popular with the troops. Perhaps that's why they were taken such good care of.

Trapdoor Springfield carbine?

That fellow looks like someone you really don't want to mess with...

It was used in open plane warfare before machine guns were attached to aircraft. They simply took pot shots at any nearby plane.

Yes it was .Every year thousands of them hit the woods for deer hunting

Geronimo was a Capitalist.He made lots of money selling photos of himself.He would do Tours off of Trains and at each stop cut buttons off his clothes and sell them.He would then sew new ones on between stops.He died a rich man!!!Gotta love an opportunist.

I've always been under the impression tht the majority of the order never made it to Russia. That particular shipment made it as far a Great Britain before the Czar abdicated...... I can't remember if I read that in the Madis book or where????
K

W. H. B. Smith's book "Small Arms of the World" (fifth edition, 1957, page 61) says of the Model 95 in combat "These Russian 1895's were used in both wars (WWI and WWII). Captured German intelligence bulletins reported them as used on all fronts to some degree; probably indicating pressing shortages of small arms at the time of their use, of course."

My father-in-law served in the Navy during WWII/Korea on various tenders as a machinist mate and said that they had Winchester 94s (30-30) on board. Before the war, they had bolt actions (couldn't remember what make/model) but they were swapped out and given to front line troops shortly after the WWII started. Most of his time was spent around South America and the Solomon Islands, so it wasn't exactly front line stuff. He remembered being asked to make replacement parts on more than one occasion.

There were some US marked Model 94s used by guards in WWII here in the US.

Harold Camping was my math instructor.

It would not surprise me at all, if the Russians don't have a bunch of those 1895 Winchesters in storage some place.

1894s were issued stateside to guards during WW 2, especially early in the war, when arms were scarce...

as far as the 1895 Win, more production was made for the Russians then there were ever civilian models made...