This probably has been discussed, but I tried searching for 6.5-06 and 6.5mm-06 and found nothing.

I like my 6.5x55 rifles a lot. How much of a velocity increase can we reasonably expect from a 6.5-06, or the AI version? My Swedes all have 22-inch barrels, but if I have a 6.5-06 made for long range shooting, I would opt for something longer, like maybe 26 inches.

My 6.5-06 is one of the semi-custom rifles E.R. Shaw puts together, with a threaded and blue-printed Savage action and a Boyd's laminated stock. It has a spiral-fluted 26" #4 barrel, and I get just under 3000 fps with 140's using 56.0 grains of H1000. That's the load I hunt with, but have tried a bunch of others and can provide some velocities with other bullet weights too if you're interested.

So about 300 to 400 more fips than the Swede. It would be easier just to get a 270. I know where there's a nice original transition safety model 70 that would fit the bill nicely. I think they want $1200 for it.

Wouldn't about half the 300 to 400 fps difference be due to higher pressure loads and barrel length?

On their website, Lapua has a 6.5x55 139 grain load for modern firearms that produces 2842 fps for a 139 gr bullet out of a 26.4" barrel.

The 6.5-06 is great at what it is - a specialty long-range round, but apples to apples, based on data I've seen, it gains about 150 or so fps on the 6.5x55 loaded to equal pressures with the same barrel length. I think that 150 or so fps falls in with one of Mule Deer's ballistic laws of 1/4.

That would be about right!

WELL WELL, LOOKIE THERE! !

Even Big Redhead COULD figure that one out !

Good For You B R ( I could not resist)

Jerry

Ramshot data for .270 Win has these lines showing pressures:

Hunter 130 BAR MRX 51.3 2,833 57.0 3,148 64,210 3.210
Hunter 130 SIE SBT 49.3 2,803 57.4 3,185 64,700 3.280
Hunter 130 HDY SST 51.3 2,829 57.0 3,143 63,430 3.230
Hunter 140 BAR TSX 48.6 2,670 54.0 2,967 63,490 3.200

6.5x284 Win shows similar pressure:
Magnum 140 SIE SBT 55.8 2,800 62.0 3,070 64,000 3.060

I would think that 6.5-06 pressures are supposed to be in the .30-06 range. Under 60k psi. I have not seen specs for the A-Square version. Even with lower pressures it might be able to keep up with the .270 because some of those 6.5 bullets are very smooth.

I wonder how the Scirocco 130-gr 6.5 bullet shoots from a 6.5-06. Or, a 140-gr VLD hunting bullet.

Hodgdon lists loads just shy of 64,000 psi for the 6.5-06 (at least one at 63,900 and more than one at 63,800 psi).

I'm getting 3,150 with 130 S2's and 140 VLD's at 3,040 with my 6.5-284.

The 6.5 is a long range caliber and its not for everybody.
If you don't plan on shooting past 500 then best to join the 270 Clone Club, it has more members.

Actually I'd say a bit more than half....the 6.5 X 55 loaded to equal pressures is indeed an impressive round and don't take much of a back seat to the 6.5-06

Yes, "Even Big Redhead" can think. I'm not sure if you complimented me or insulted me.

Big Redhead, I've used and loaded for the 6.5x06 a lot, actually shot the barrel out one. It had a 25" Douglas with a 9 twist. I never was able to get the kind of velocities I see listed here on the fire. With the 140gr bullets 2900 or so was tops and with the 120's 3050 or so was tops. I really like the round, it was very lucky for me. With it I killed my very best(so far) mule deer and before witness I killed a coyote at something over 500yds with it. But, when it came time to re-barrel the 6.5x06 became a 280AI. Never the less, the round is a great one. The 140gr bullets hold their velocity well way down range. It's worth a look.

Just joking man, Remember " I don't get even, I get ahead."

BR,

My 6.5-'06 is a custom Rem M700 with a 23.6" Shilen No. 3 contour, 9" twist barrel, aluminum pillar bedded in a McM. synthetic stock. It has an ADL type blind magazine. I have had a variety of scopes on it, latest is a VX3 2.5-8X.

I make brass from .25-'06 or .270 Win cartridge cases, and my favorite hunting load uses 125 to 140 gr pointed bullets with a case pretty full of Norma MRP powder. I am still shooting a powder lot I bought from a going out of biz gun shop so I won't quote what I use. By current standards it is quite accurate and fast.

This photo shows this rifle with its sister in .280 Rem on a scope testing session on my indoor range (I shoot there, don't own it).

The 6.5-'06 is for rifle loonies, it is much easier to go with a .270 Win...jim

Definitely a loony cartridge. I love mine. Mcmillan Hunters Edge stock, Hart 8 twist #2, PTG bottom metal and bolt shroud. Total weight with Leupold 3.5-10 is a few ounces over 7 pounds. Shoots 140 bergers and 160 Woodleighs really well.

Homer Strickland, when I asked him about barreling a M78 Remington to 6.5-06, suggested that he'd happily do the needed work at a very reasonable cost to screw on a re-worked, unused, take-off barrel in my choice of chamberings. That was how my 6.5-06 became one very ordinary, but accurate 25-06. The barrel roll marks were all askew and the barrel was a fraction of an inch shorter than when it starter, but that rifle would shoot, not a decision I regretted.

Nice whitey!

Dober

(give me a shout when you get a minute)

30338 - Very Nice

BUT you put the BLUE TAPE on the antlers not the barrel

Multiple uses for the blue stuff!

My 24" 6.5 X 284 shows pressure above 2800 FPS with 140 gr bullets. 2800-2830 is about my safe working max in my rifle.

Similar case capacity to the 6.5 X 06.

My rifle is reamed for 6.5 X 284 (Winchester brass). Which has less case capacity than 6.5 X 284 Norma.

In comparing my LH LW 22" 270 to my heavy 6.5 X 284 the .270 is faster, a little more accurate and
not nearly as fussy to reload for. And about 3# lighter.

Although I am an avid .270 fan, having taken several Dall rams at over 400 yards with them (lousy stalker), the 6.5 holds my interest to the point that I am about done putting together a 700 with Douglas 22" fluted bbl, H-S Pro stock, Leupold 6x42 with turrets to go with my Husqvarna 4100 that began life as a 6.5x55 and was re-chambered to 6.5/06. Just something to play with.

I've been around a passel of 6.5/06 barrels from 23"-26".

Personally I found the round a bit easy to have pressure issues rather quickly. Especially when it gets a bit warm out, or the barrel gets heated and if one's running 140's (out of the shorter tubes 23-24) over 2900.

From my time with the round, with barrels which I'm willing to carry (23") 2850 with a 140 is pretty much top end. No go longer say 25-26" and one can get to 3K. But, I choose not to carry a rig much more than 23" for the most part anymore.

Good round, easy to form cases, but by my way of thinking and from a practical side of me (which rarely comes out) I feel that a 25/06 or .270 will do pretty much the same thing. Especially if ones doing the sub 500 yd range thing. Which if people are honest most all are pretty much doing that.

Dober

labdad-what contour you going with?

Dober

Rem 004

I really like the cartridge and have built three of them with barrels 24 or 26" in length, 1-8 and 1-9 twist. Even though I have settled on using the 120BT for deer and antelope, I would opt for a 1-8 barrel with this cartridge to take advantage of all bullet weights.

My 6.5-06 Ackley gets 3,050 with the 140 Bergers without issues. 60 grains H-1000. 24" Pacnor 8-twist barrel.

My single 6.5-06 is on a Husqvarna 1600. I bought as a 6.5-06 and had greydog work on it. With a 24' barrel 2900 is Max. RL-25 works well for me,so it's no where near as spikey as my normal throated 264.

Ooo, 6.5-06 Ackley. That even sounds looney. Bet that draws some looks at the range. That's the value of wildcats anyway, isn't it?

True, it does draw some looks at the range, but the problem is, there are very few good-looking women at the range.....

I have one made up as a sheep rifle with a minimum barrel contour on a LH 700 action, at the recommendation of Harry McGowan, who said he could shave the weight without affecting point of impact in multiple shots. (With my ability, it may not make a difference.)

I am surprised that no one has mentioned the outstanding ballistic coefficient of the 6.5 bullets for reaching way out there.

Big Redhead,

A friend of mine really liked an even loonier version of the 6.5-06 Ackley, the 6.5/.280 Ackley Improved. It has that 2 extra grains of powder essential to truly improved performance.

He calls it the 6.5 Blowhole Express.

That sounds interesting, John, and I'm sure that extra 2 grains of powder increases the velocity at least 25%. But I'm afraid I just could not buy into that name, even if it does blow holes in things.

Ever heard of the 6.5x64 Brenneke?

Yeah, I've even known somebody who had one.

It's always seemed rather odd to me that people would go to all the trouble to get every little foot-per-second out of a 6.5 on the .30-06 case, when they could just do a .264 Winchester Magnum--or a 6.5x68S, if they wanted something different. Or AI the .264, or build a 6.5 RUM, or....

JB +1, if one wants to put alot of gas under a 6.5 a 264WM is the 6.5 that sets the bar IMHO.

I know at least one former wildcatter who has seen the pendulum swing and new powders/bullets begged the question - why fiddle w/forming and turning necks, etc.

If one has the time, they are fun. If not, a non belted small bore interest can often be well satisfied w/a non-sexy common 270 or even 280. The latter perhaps having better bc bullet options w/faster spun 9 twist.

The day 270s come with faster twists, and bullets become avail in similar 'same-same' bc/sd as 6.5s, the 270 may become all the more attractive to Loony's.

I wonder what the simple 260 and 270s would do in a 26" bbl w/120-140 gr vs a 6.5-06 using same in a 26" tube.

I know my 29.1" 1896 spit 120s ALOT faster than a couple of chopped ones I had...

As much as adding powder by a larger case, one can often add speed by putting adding a 'muffler' acting few inches of bbl, it OAL is not an issue for their hunting style.

No matter what round is used, at the point a speed differential of say 150-200 fps or so will come to play, those ranges ALL bullets at all speeds must be compensated for in trajectory POA so to get correct POI, one needs to dial/twist.

If under 600 yds on deer sized game, I'd just as soon run a 260 as a larger 6.5, as either one, the injun must get the dope, and if that is done, a bullet thru vitals of either will satisfy.

One only needs to ascertain the elk kill at 600+ by WVZ by a Creedmoor......

I had a friend who had a 98 done by Womack, he often seen pressures soar using various brass, as turning or at least checking neck thickness, esp. LOADED OD, as well as various capacities of different brand brass, and 25-06, 270, '06, etc. I don't like hassles so IF/WHEN a good supply of factory stamped quality affordable brass, ammo, and rifles hit the shelves in 6.5-06 I'd have no qualms running one.

If the industry/several major arms/ammo mfg. would support a 6.5-06, I think it would surpass the sales of 260s and Creedmoor's.

Shoot good bullets THRU vitals.....all else will be ok

Now, that is funny.

The more I read about loading and shooting 6.5mm wildcats, the more appealing a 270 becomes.

And the more I shot my 6.5 I'm glad I dumped the 270.

SU - 'different strokes...' and that's not to say one is RIGHT or the other is WRONG.

As long as the shooting public is happy, the more 'catridges' the better. It would be a SHAME if we were ALL limited to one or two rounds.

Even the name 6.5-06 sounds cool when you say it.

The more you read about it?

If Lapua or even Winchester made proper stamped brass, I might be game for one....not that good brass cannot be formed.

Yet formed 6.5x55 (I know not proper head size/base dia., etc) from Hornady 270 and 25-06 cases, ALOT of variance in case capacity can be had even in the same mfg. brass, w/different stamps, though all 06 siblings. I'd rather not fiddle w/so many variables, inc. neck wall thickness.

SU - I hear ya, a Looney cannot ignore the benefits of the 6.5 bullets....

For me, what DOES make sense is the '06 powder capacity under a 6.5 bullet/bore yet in the nomenclature of 6.5-284 or 6.5 RM Long actions will give more COL latitude, as would bbls longer than the latter carbine intro of the 600/660s.

Nothing bad to say conceptually about the round or performance. About the only bad 6.5 round I will argue against is the STW and WSM variants......simply due to a bore life that gives little room for load development...can you say 'OVERBORE' ?? Lol.

Yeah, but for me the 6.5X55 'Sweede' is the KOOOLIST.

Working with one right now.

Just broke in the barrel but during barrel break in ( 142 SMK's and RL 22) I've got multiple groups in the 2's and 3's

Why H1000 over RL 22? I'm more of a fan of accuracy over speed so what are the most accurate combinations you have.

I'd like to settle on the 140 Bergers as the "goto" bullet.

I'm getting great accuracy and 2875 fps using 140 Bergers and RL22. Slightly better accuracy than H1000 provided in my rig. And the 140 Bergers have been great on a variety of game so far.

H-1000 is very accurate in my rifle, and it's one of their extreme powders:

200-yard group:

Cocadori,

I much prefer Hodgdon Extremes (or any other temp-resistant powder) for longer-range rifles. Reloder 22 is a great powder for accurate, zippy loads at normal temperatures. But when temps can vary from 85 to well below zero during hunting season (as I'm sure you've experienced in Montana) muzzle velocities that can vary 100 fps or more aren't all that desirable, especially at longer ranges.

Plus, I've tried a bunch of bullets and powders in my 6.5-06 and the 140 Berger VLD and H1000 are the most accurate, and not just at 100 yards. They group into 1/2" MOA or better out to 700 yards, which theoretically shouldn't happen with the 1-9 twist, but that's what they do.

By the way, the second most accurate bullet in my rifle is the 140-grain Nosler Partition. I've also gotten good accuracy from several other bullet/powder combinations, but none as good as with the 140 VLD and H1000, though I recently acquired some other match bullets (Nosler 140, Lapua Scenar 139 and Norma 130) that will be tried before next spring. Have tried Hornady A-Maxes and Sierra MatchKings but neither shot as well as VLD's.

I have some 139 scenars inbound as I type this, I'd be interested in hearing how they do for you, that is, if you beat me to it.

I shot the 139's in 1K Br for a year. Placed very well at Nationals held in Byers Co. a few years back. They were very very good over RL22

6.5-284?

yep.. should work well in the 6.5-06 as well..

You have all missed some very germain points:

1.It about optimises the 6.5 bore case capacity wise.

2.It about optimizes what we refer to as the "standard lenght" action. Why put a 6.5x55 in an 06 length action? You can always down load to any pressure/velosity level.

3. Chamber remers, dies, brass, and cases are everywhere in great quantity and quality. They are also about as cheap as you can get.

4.It feeds through most actions about like corn through a goose's butt. Gunsmiths love it.

5. 264 bullets are beautiful and effecient, and are about right for what most of us will ever hunt.

Yes, the more I read about it. Is there something about that sentence that astounds you?

JB - have you written about the Shaw semi-custom rifle? I recall a small mention, but have not seen a comprehensive review (article). If you haven't written of it, please do.

I have never been enamored with the Savage action (to ugly for my taste - bolt handle, prominent trigger release, looks clunky), but have always been impressed with the accuracy (I've owned 2). Maybe, I'll consider one of the Shaws.

Swarf,

I think a 6.5x55 improved would be a winner using Lapua brass, performance knocking on the heels of the 284 or '06 case, very efficient and decent bore life. I think it's called BJ Arch.

Of course PO talked of a 6.5x57 AI, 260 AAR....

Rem might have sold more 6.5-06 than 260 chose one of A-Square's rounds. Not sure if it would fit - but wonder if a 6.5-06 would run into a 25/06 chamber, and cause liability concerns.

JB - in a higher capacity round like the 06 or larger, an 8.5 - 9 twist as you know spins a little faster so given one might see a little pressure reduction, not a bad thing in these larger small bore rounds, an 8.5 - 9 might be preferred by many. I suppose they may foul a tad less as well, than a similar 8t.

No doubt a 9t can be borderline in some 6.5 rounds depending on bullet/mv, etc. It seems to be more spotty in smaller rounds, not so much in the larger ones.

No, not at all. The more I read about old-timers killing elephants with a 7X57, the more I think it's the perfect elephant cartridge.

Seriously though, if you're contemplating a 6.5-06, there's not much to it, as far as "wildcatting." Buy a die set, and either neck up .25-06 brass with a single pass of the expander ball, or neck down .270 brass and then trim it back to length. It's pretty simple.

Yes, you're right. I suppose as far as forming cases from another caliber goes, this is one of the simpler conversions. Thanks for clarifying.

My 6.5-'06 has a 9" twist Shilen barrel cut to 23.6" (or 600 mm). I have used bullets ranging from 120 gr to 165 gr in weight (or course it is bullet length that matters most in stability). I ran into the limit for this rifle between 160 gr round nose (Hornady worked very well for accuracy) and the 165 gr semi-spitzer (Original Barnes produced 4" groups at 100 yards).

jim

Plus, it beats the heck out of a .270, there's just no comparison.

JB, Or you could take it to the "middle" extreme and go old school with a .256 Newton. That should get some looks at the range!

djs,

I wrote the Shaw rifle up in HANDLOADER and VARMINT HUNTER.

I won't argue with that!

Actually, I really like my 6.5x55 Swedes a lot. They are "enough gun" for my hunting purposes. Drill both shoulders or CNS with a 140gr Hornady and watch four hooves fly up in the air. It thrills me to no end not having to track at night, or on the neighbor's place, or not find the deer at all. And if I wait until they are standing in the right place, I can drive right up to them and load-'em in the truck, "rickey tick."

Big Red & smokepole - All that is great BUT I guess a 270 can't do the same thing?

A 270 is ONLY ahead of the 6.5x55 for 649 yds according to RamblinRazorback. It's such a pitiful cartridge, don't know how it has survived so long!

Jerry

Similar, but not the same. I have a custom 6.5-284 that I like a bunch. Its a 8.5 twist 26" med sporter wt. Krieger on a pre-64 M-70 with Jewell trigger in a Boyd, Jon Sundra laminated stock, pillared, glassed, free floated and torqued. It wears a Swaro Z5 3.5-18x44 BT with Outdoorsmans turret, calibrated to my best load of 140 gr. Bergers or SST's and Vv N165 at 2,950 fps. Off a bench, it will group 4 1/2" at 600 yds. with progressively smaller groups back to teens and twos at a hundred.

Its a great whitetail, pronghorn, hog and 'yote rifle. I have several deer rifles and this one is my favorite. From a solid rest, almost anything out there is in jeopardy. Its the confidence, knowing what a piece of equipment will do, that adds to the enjoyment of a hunt regardless what ends up in the freezer. A very pleasant rifle to shoot and a pleasure to hunt with.

DF

Big R, I'd like to have a Swede someday, no doubt. And a 7 X 57. Dirtfarmer, my '06 improved will shoot the 140 Bergers at half MOA at all the ranges I've tried, out to 550. ANd with the load that Mule Deer suggested (H-1000) it runs 3,050.

What's not to like about that?




The .270? Me neither.

That 6.5-06AI sounds like a keeper. That 6.5 has a bit more punch than the 6.5-284 and I would think it was more accurate than a .264 Win Mag, although I'm sure some will squawk about that statement.

Stated another way, I think it should be easier to get good groups out of a 6.5-06AI than a .264 Win Mag. And I would think you could push it pretty close to .264 Win Mag performance.

DF

It is a keeper, an M70 in a Mcmillan, handles well and not too heavy. But now that you mention it, my 26-in barreled .264 (new rifle, not much load work yet) will shoot Berger 140s between 3150-3200. Best group so far was a 4-shot group at a little better than 3/4". Only tried 2 powders so far, and I want to try 1-2 more.

I'm relatively new to 6.5's, but I'm really starting to like 'em.

Check out Vv N165. I heard that some of the long range 6.5-284 target shooters were using it and it worked great for me. I could beat the velocity with RL-17, but not the accuracy. With the turret, I don't need a slightly flatter trajectory, I need pin point accuracy.

Superperformance is reportedly good in the short mags. I read somewhere that it burned pretty dirty, so I don't know. The Ramshot powders are good and reportedly burn clean. I guess Magnum would be the one I would try in that gun.

DF

smokepole - got a ? for you. When was the 6.5-06 EVER recognized in a FACTORY rifle or cartridge?

Wonder Why?

You will get better barrel life from the 6.5-06 over the 6.5X284.

Think neck length.

I've heard that. But, the .300 Win Mag has a short neck, as do a number of cases.

DF

6.5x64 Brenneke and 256 Newton

Variants...

Even longer necks...


Anyone here have experience with the 6.5 SAUM ?

It hasn't. Is that your point? That being "EVER recognized in a FACTORY rifle" makes a cartridge superior?

Like a .35 Remington maybe?

I see what you mean, the .35 Remington is a real barn-burner.

No, that wasn't my idea BUT even the 35 Rem was 'legitimatized'

as a hunting round. I wonder how many 35 Rem.s have been bought.

Compare that to the 6.5-06

Jerry

Yeah, you're right popularity/numbers always mean a lot.

Kind of like the number of Lady Gaga albums sold......

One other thing--the first commercialized .25-06 didn't appear until about 1969, but the earliest versions popped up in the 1920's. So the way I see it, it takes the herd a few years to catch on, and 6.5-06 shooters are just way ahead of their time.

Thank You.

It's the difference in Survival & Death when it comes to the gun industry.
Jerry

Survival & Death? Sounds serious.

I thought we were talking about the merits of different cartridges, not what sells at Walmart?

I note that the Butt-Out tool is still in the catalog at Cabela's, that means it's "A Survivor." So what.

Also, in case you missed it, no thanks are required, because the quote you selectively chopped above was not an acknowledgement that you had a point......

.

Barrel life of a 300 winny...what 1200 to 1500? About the same for a 6.5X284 if you run em hot. I got 1300 and change from my 6.5X284 1K BR gun.

6.5-06 will give you a few more rounds down the tube. Shoulder angle and long neck put the hottest point of combustion in the neck of the case instead of the throat of the barrel.

Hmmmmm....that is interesting. So, all else equal, a sharper shoulder and shorter neck = faster barrel burning??

Not necessarily.

Some shoters firmly believe that the reason the .243 Winchester tends to erode barrels more quickly than the 6mm Remington (which could be debated, and no doubt will be) is the .243's more sloping shoulder and short neck. The theory is that the shoulder tends to direct the hot gas into the throat just in front of the neck, speeding up erosion.

One piece of evidence in support of this theory is that Ackley Improving the .243 tends to slow erosion, but you'd have to shoot out a bunch of barrels to come to any firm conclusions.

After talking to the smith who built the 6.5-06 for me and a few other friends/smiths they mostly agreed that if you take the angle of the shoulder draw intersecting lines forward of the shoulder and where those lines intersect is the hottest point of the powder burn sequence. If that point is in the throat area it will induce more wear. If it is in the neck of the case the case itself will take the brunt of the heat. Brass is cheaper than barrels.

Ahh, so an Ackley with a long neck is not a bad thing.

IIRC McPherson used this as a reason behind his line of case designs. Something about keeping the turbulence inside the case neck through a combination of shoulder angle and neck length. I also recall reading that this is the reason the 6mm Rem doesn't suffer the same issue as the 243.

From the Superior Ballistics website:

Yup.. I had a 6mm rem that went over 3000 rounds before it needed set back. I ran that thing HOT!

Theoretically an ackley with a long neck IS a good thing.

Just did my final load work up for mine..

settled on RL 22 and the 142 SMK lit by the Fed210M. Running them at 2910fps out of a 26" barrel

5 shot group at 500 meters of 2.4"

since the weather will stay cold and the load work up was done at 30* i'll stick with this until spring.

Sounds like a winner!!

Yep..I'm pretty tickled!

albeit this isn't a hunting type rig... more of a precision/tactical type.

Just checked mine before my late cow season starts. Shot 3 rounds of 160 Woodleigh into .45" at 10,000 foot elevation. Was 2 clicks higher than my 140 berger load so clicked it down, reset turret and ready to roll.

Good luck, Kurt!

6.5-06

It is a hammer. 1st load work up with RL 22 and 142 SMK's

500 meters from prone off a bi-pod.

Man, you need some better targets, you'll never shoot good groups with targetrs like that.......see how the O's are all off to the right?

Well it was a tough day shooting. High winds, driving snow, uphill to the target both ways. The hard part was shooting around the hill between me and the target. The skipping off the water was the easier of the tasks. It only gets tricky past 500 meters.

H1000 for the 160's?

Yes sir. RL22 for the 140s and H1000 for the 160s. Still looking for a cow elk to test a 160 on.

A 6.5-06 ?? I would love to try a 6.5-06 !! I have owned 2 270s and would rather have crabs than to own another one.

Tell us about your terrible 270 experiences after owning a "whole" two!

I can't wait to hear this....

But I'm all ears!

I figure if you'd rather have the "crabs" than the 270,you must have considerable experience with both, in order to form such a learned opinion....just thinkin' out loud,of course.

.

Jerry

Seriously, if you despise the 270, why do you think you would like

the 6.5-06 ? ?

You would have to MAKE cases and then the performance of the two
cals is so close you or the game COULD NOT tell the diff.

You can also get ammo for the 270 from ANYPLACE that sells ammo.
It does not make any sense except that you'd have a cal that few have.
Jerry

Now there's an interesting perspective.

WOW, BOB !! It's not like I mounted your favorite sheep !! I just couldn't get along with the 270. To give you a little back round on me.. I have killed over 200 deer in my life with everything from my bow to the 338 winch mag. I trapped for a living for 5 years. I know a little about shooting and killing stuff. I shot 2 deer with the first gun and 3 or 4 with the last gun. One was accurate the other wasn't. The deer I shot never dropped at the shot. All of them ran for a ways, one went 300 yards before he fell over. Till I met the 6.5 swed my favorite gun was a 308. Killed ALOT of deer with that gun and none of them ever made it more than 30 yards. The 6.5 is even deadlier. I shoot 140 gr. Siera bullets out of it about 2650 fps and can watch the deer take the bullet. The whole side of the deer does a huge ripple and the deer drops.... and you get to see it in the scope.As far as having a "WHOLE" 2 270s... how unhappy do you have to be to say enuf is enuf ?? As far as getting to buy factory ammo..... If you are going to shoot a 6.5-06 you probably already thunk of that one and took ammo with you. I own 3 223s, 3 22 250s a 250 3000, the swed, a new 280 Ackley and a 338-06 ackley. I think I got most of what I need for firepower from the experiences I have had over the years. Can I shoot them or do I just like to spend too much $$ on guns ?? I one shot killed a prairie dog @ 402 lazered yards in a 25 mph cross wind last May. I am no target shooter but I get by with out a 270 just fine. As far as having crabs... talk to your wife about that. Just thinking out loud of course.....

I owned a 6.5/06 many years ago but ended up selling it as the gunsmith didn't follow my intructions and built it according to his own spec instead of mine. I replaced it with a 270 which will offer anything the 6.5 will and more in the form of factory rifles and ammo.


.

ackley, you brought up the crabs.....not me. And leave my wife out of it,before I really get upset.

I have read enough silly stuff to fill an encyclopedia about guys who have shot less than a half dozen half starved whitetails with a 270 and had the deer run off barely bruised, go for miles, fail to leak blood,and behave in so many other immortal ways.

Then the same hero proclaims something in the same general power category with bullets of roughly the same weight,a few thousands in diameter larger or smaller,traveling at roughly the same velocities,as the virtual hammer of Thor.

If I were stupid,lacked experience,and had not killed a pile of deer and other stuff with a 270,from 10 feet to over 400 yards with the cartridge, all over the country,I might buy into such complete nonsense.

So might friends of mine who have used the cartridge(more than me)from Alaska and Canada to Africa, on game as diverse as eland, moose,elk,and interior grizzlies, I might buy in....

To round things oput I have also done the same with a vraiety of 300 mags and 7mm mags.

When I dig deep, I usually find out that these "detractors either can't shoot, or didn't shoot very well, or are in general not very experienced....at all much beyond their back yard.

What surprises me is that they generally think they have discovered something about the 270 that tens of thousands of hunters have not since 1925....like they are the only one's in all those years to "learn" such things.Not to mention the number of dead game animals numbering in the millions by now, all killed with a 270.

Generally anyone who comes to those conclusions is not much worth listening to....I know he has not been around much, not killed as much game as he professes, and likely can't shoot either.

If you can't kill a little old deer with a 270 and avoid a lot of melodrama.....stay home and take up knitting.

Two 270's is a warmup.....so isn't 5 deer.This ain't kindergarten.

Welcome to the CF...another one on "ignore".

And you blame the .270 for that? Sounds like [bleep] shooting to me. Also, no [bleep] way all deer drop at the shot regardless of cartridge.

Azzhole, you can say what you want about folks here and most have thick skins.....but family is off limits.

Hang some pics of your rifles and kills as an introduction to your hunting and shooting prowess....

All I said was I didn't like the 270. He started the fight. I too have hunted some ... from the mid states to Alaska. I have friends that shoot the 270 and say they love it but admit they have to follow some of the deer farther than they do with other guns and I have friends that tried the 270 and went to other guns as they didn't like how it killed. If you love the 270.. fine !! SHOOT IT ! BUT, IF you shoot 5 or 6 animals and the bullet is NOT getting the job done the way you want it to are you going to keep playing around and maybe lose a deer or elk or what ever ?? One of my friends found his 270 killed deer 3 days later after the coyotes found it. I was a 162 " deer. Ya think he didn't try his best to find that deer ?? I will not play that game for very long. As for not being able to shoot, my plain Jane old M70 in 338 mag will shoot 4 shots @ 100 to .362 with 225 gr Partitions. FOR SURE put me on the do not read list!! People with opinions that don't agree with you are always retards and azzholes. Sorry, but all the deer I have shot with the swed HAVE dropped at the shot. In fact, to be honest... the worst time I had killing deer was with the 338 and 225 gr partitions. Had to follow one about 200 yards. I don't like that. I do NOT like things traveling that far ! I don't take chances on shooting stuff. I don't like shooting long ranges myself. I can, but I like to get as close as I possible can to KNOW I am going to get the shot I want or back off and try something else. It is all of our responsibiitys ( sorry, my spelling sucks. Part of the retard azzhole thing.} to do ALL we can to do it right the first time. Bad shooting ?? I don't think so. I try my best to get a gun to shoot as good as I can and to practice to make me good euough to get the job done too. I tried 6 different bullets in 3 different brands before I took the 270s hunting. YOU started the insults on me . That is personal right there. THAT opened the door for what I said about your wife. I do apoligize for that and I am truely sorry.
As for proof of me doing what I say I have done and where I have been, I owe you no proof by pictures. I hunt and shoot for me. I am not bragging about the things I have done or the places I have been. I was there whether you want to beleive me or not. I don't remember you being there when we hauled moose meat out of Skookum Creek camp in Alaska for 5 days. I don't remember you almost having to carry my son out of the Foal Creek drainage in Northern Id because of altitude sickness while packing elk. I am verry sure you didn't help me drag my bow killed caribou out off the tundra in knee deep snow on a plastic sled just south of Dead Horse, Alaska
I DO want to THANK YOU for making the new guy feel WELCOME !!
And from now on ... Family is off limits.

This is pretty simple stuff. Bullets matter more than the cartridge (within extremes). I don't care that you hate a .270 as I don't earn any money converting folks to cartridges...

Fact is, deer are gonna drop just as fast from a .270 as they would a Sweede. Though it sucks to loose a deer in any situation, it's hardly ever (I don't believe in absolutes) the fault of the cartridge.

Your friend lost his deer and that could have been due to a gut shot, poor tracking conditions, not enough blood, whatever. Not enough info to go by in your sentence. On the surface, it smells like a bad shot...

You are also chasing imagination if you think a specific cartridge will yield you a "dead right there" every time you pull the trigger. It's just not so unless you hit the CNS each and every time.

And the only reason I called you an azzhole, is because you brought a friends wife into the mix...

Glad to see you take a stand for what you like, but often folks cast blame on things they should not...

You should be commended for sticking up for a buddy. I apoligised... you haven't.
WHY is it that when a guy says he does not personally like a cartrige, some body HAS to tell them that they are instantly a retard and know nothing of guns and shooting. The 270 HAS and will keep killing things. The swed has, for me, killed DRT for me. I beleive that every caliber has a perfect match between caliber, bullet weight, design and speed that when found kills stuff with amazing results. The load for my swed is such. Would it do it on elk ?? I doubt it... almost guarantee it.The deer I have killed are short range shots by alot of peoples standards. I doubt I have killed more than 10 deer beyond 200 yards. I can. It is.. I can get closer... so I do. Some deer are at feet and not yards. On average, I would say 100 yards. NOWHERE did I say the 270 wouldn't kill a deer. I said it did kill the deer, they just traveled farther than I wanted. YA, I wasn't there on my buddies deer so I can't comment on that other than it happened. I have no idea WHY they don't fall over or why I have such good luck with the 6.5. As for half starved deer... S.E. Iowa doesn't have very many of those. I never said I discovered anything new about the 270... BOB again. BOB blew this deal up !! I have no need to fight with you or your buddy, Bob. I also will not take the know it all snide attack from Bob or any other self proclaimed wizzard. Bob needs to control his ego a little better. ALL I SAID WAS I, PERSONALLY, DO NOT LIKE THE 270 !! Now that we have had this fancy pissing match, just how do I post pics ?

I don't speak for Bob, he is well equipped to handle himself...

I don't feel as though I have anything to apologize for here so let's just move on to another topic shall we...

The best way to post pictures is through a photobucket account. That's what I use and it's pretty easy. If you go to the photography section here, there are instructions that people have put up.

Thank you for the help about posting pics. I will take note that it is proper etiquet on this forum to call someone an azzhole and not have to apoligize. Next subject.

Ackley sorry we got off on the wrong foot....but if I see something I very much disagree with,I will comment on it.

The comment about "crabs" was "tongue in cheek" and I should have held off, but it was just too irresistable....I figured no big deal, since you mentioned it first and left yourself wide open....

You don't "have to" like the 270....I happen not to "like" 338's...I'm still trying to figure out what they are for....but I don;t make stuff up about them to prove a point either,and the last thing I'd suggest is that they don't "work good"..

So it goes.We all have our tastes in cartridges.I am not a self proclaimed "expert",but when I see something mentioned that runs very contrary to what I have observed,I won't hesitate to mention it,since this forum is all about expressing opinions based on experiences.

FWIW, here's mine.....anytime someone tells me that they hit an animal with a 270,and the animal got away,(or ran into the next county), I "know" one of two things....they did not hit him correctly, or they did not hit him at all.This does not require "expertise", just common sense.

People lose animals with a 270 for the same reason they lose animals with any caliber.....they didn't hit them right.I have never seen this "rule" breached.....ever; with any cartridge,or bore diameter.

There are no magic calibers,and nothing I have used is any better as a deer cartridge.

Have a nice day.Hope you get your picture posted

I've never liked 243s, nor had crabs.


.

ackley33806,

Welcome to the Campfire!

You're also welcome as a free American to dislike the .270, but you got into trouble when you gave as an example of its lousy performance a half-dozen deer that went "too far" after being hit.

My wife and I have taken over 50 big game animals with the .270 Winchester, including whitetail and mule deer, pronghorns, wild sheep, caribou, elk, moose and bison. A couple were poorly hit, so went a ways, but other than that none went over 50 yards, and most less.

In fact the quickest I've ever seen a moose killed was when my wife shot a Shiras bull with a 150-grain Nosler Partition, and it was a pure lung shot. The bull took a step-and-a-half before falling dead. Eileen also took a mature cow bison with one 130-grain Barnes TSX from a .270 (another lung shot), and it went about 40 yards before keeling over.

Other animals have died out to 400+ yards quite readily. The bullets have included every popular make and type in America.

What Bob is saying (and I am backing up) is that if you've had really miserable experiences on a handful of deer with the .270 the problem lies somewhere other than the cartridge and its bullets.

Oh, and I have a 6.5-06 and have hunted with it some, as well as a bunch of the 6.5mm rounds, including the .264 Winchester Magnum, as well as the 7x57 Mauser, .280 Remington and .280 Ackley Improved. Their trajectories vary a little, depending on bullet and muzzle velocity, but after seeing a BUNCH of game (not half a dozen deer) taken with all those rounds I have yet to be able to find any difference how well they kill big game--as long as the bullet's put in the right place.

Hmm, I knew there was a reason I love the 06 Improved so much...

Dober

[quote=ackley33806 As far as having crabs... talk to your wife about that. Just thinking out loud of course..... [/quote]

Don't doubt your experience,or your abilities....but this was pretty un-necessary and uncouth.
Haven't read the whole thread, but an apology is warranted...and if its been offered, I stand corrected...if not...
well...

Charlie

PLEASE !! Go back and read my original post. I said nothing other than I would not own another 270 and then this guy writes a whole page about me being a retard from hell. WHERE did that come from. I offered an apoligy in my last post but when it comes to him calling me all of the things he called me... THAT is when things went bad. Are you the same "BobinNh that is on the Alaska forums ?? IF so I have seen you rip people like this before for no reason on that forum. If I say something about shooting or hunting.. that is the way it happened. I have no reason to lie to any body out there. In alot of the places we hunt good info is a gift and bad info will get you killed. According to BOB i should have shot a couple of dozen more deer that I would be unhappy with the results and bought another dozen 270 and then maybe he would be happy I met HIS standards.
IF IT DOESN'T WORK FOR YOU.... CHANGE IT !! Ask me a question and I will either give you an answer or tell you "I don't know" or I will tell you it is none of your business but BOB or anyone else is getting away with the crap he pulled on here. Once again I apoligize to Bob's wife for my remark.

Back to the 6.5-06 now....
I don't care to converse with people that have little pieces of BS hanging off their lip.....

I just finshed loading some new brass with RL19 and Horny 129 SST's,to compare with my 6.5 Creedmoor,then off to the range this weekend...

Those of you knocking crabs don't know what you're missing. Steam up a half-bushel, seasoned with Old Bay and salt, roll out the butcher paper and the beer, and have at it.

Wait a minute......

Two comments that sum it up on the 270 issue. Shot placement is king.

BobinNH

People lose animals with a 270 for the same reason they lose animals with any caliber.....they didn't hit them right.I have never seen this "rule" breached.....ever; with any cartridge,or bore diameter.

Mule Deer

What Bob is saying (and I am backing up) is that if you've had really miserable experiences on a handful of deer with the .270 the problem lies somewhere other than the cartridge and its bullets.

Wow, a bullet diameter from .264 to .277 to .284 and all hell breaks loose. Does it really matter, no..again put the bullet in the right place and the animal dies a quick death. If you believe the attack was personal from Bob, I think you misread somewhat. His point being of course how can you plainly state that the .270 is inadequate to kill deer based on limited experience and more so just common sense that your 6.5 swede kills them right there when the bullet, velocity, etc are so similiar, think about it, how does the conclusion make sense. Me, I'm not a neck/head shot kinda of shooter so I expect a tracking job after the shot. If I hit them right, its usually short and quick, you hit them wrong...well, just saying

Me, I'm not a 270 fan either but for different reasons, I much rather prefer the far superior .280

As for the crabs, I like mine in sauce. Made a big pot for Xmas Eve, threw in some scallops and shrimp and ate over spaghetti...

Rifle

not to get back on subject but let us know how R19 works for you.

we've played alot with r22 with 140 gr and like it alot.

A 6.5mm 140gr Sierra Gameking or Pro-Hunter started at 2600 fps from a 6.5x55 does indeed perform markedly different than a .277" 130gr Sierra started at 3100 from a 270 Win. Of these two loads, the Swede load is more reliable when the bullet encounters heavy muscle and bone. This is fact based on personal experience. The full-loaded 270 is hard on lightly constructed bullets. To say there is something inherrently wrong with the 270 is folly. OTOH, the higher the velocity, the more critical bullet selection becomes regardless the name on the cartridge headstamp.

raybass--

"What Bob is saying (and I am backing up) is that if you've had really miserable experiences on a handful of deer with the .270 the problem lies somewhere other than the cartridge and its bullets."

Gee, I thought that's what I was saying too! Maybe I'm not much good at this writing thing....

IF you READ What I said..............I had trouble and could not get the problem fixed. I did not say the 270 was a pos. I tried differet bullets and the stuff we all do to fix a problem. "I" personally could NOT find the answer I was looking for and I switched guns. NO WHERE did I asked to be reamed . NOW go back and look.... people are siding with BOB and they admit they never even read the post !! ???? The 270 killed every animal I pulled the trigger on. I ate every animal I killed with it. At the time the 270 thing was going on, I was trapping for a living. If I didn't kill it, we went hungry. I don't know about you guys but a hungry wife and 2 kids is unacceptable. You guys are quick to back ol' Bob up on this deal but none of you have come up with an answer to why I was having problems ?? It was a nice gun... light to carry, pointed good... I just could not get it to do what I wanted. Why is this Swed killing everything in sight ?? I don't really know and I don't care. It is and I am going to keep eating deer that I don't have to trail down. As far as having crabs, my son lives in Alaska. I love mine steamed and dunked in butter. If you ever get to Anchorage, you have to go to Guenny's restaruant. MOSTEST GOODEST FOOD AT A FAIR PRICE !! But you better get a reservation. As far as needing a 270 and an 06 ... Why both ?? According to you guys it is the same gun ??? The answer to that one is.... because he wants them.

ackley, I don't think these boys are "backing me up",so much as saying they have observed the same things I have.

I know these folks are pretty experienced with the 270,along with a bunch of other cartridges.

CHIPM....
WHERE in my post does it say the deer did not die ??? ???
I' will wait.... go read my post. ???? I SAID I did not like trailing them down. By some posters standard a 100 yard trail job is expected and just a plain JOY of life. It freakes me out to have to trail a deer 100 yards. And to have one run 300 will cause me sleepless nights. In my whole life I have lost 2 deer. One with a 243... a bad hit and one with my bow. I called a good but the thing just quit bleeding and was gone. Can I track or do I give up on a trail too soon ?? The funniest joke on my tracking ability has to be the doe I blood tracked for almost 2 miles. She came in behind me and it was a quick shot but in my minds eye I thought I had hit her. There was some snow on the ground and I had blood specks so I stayed on the trail till the trail was lost in a cedar jungle choaked with multifloral rose brush. I couldn't figure out what had just happened so I went back and looked at the start of the blood trail. I think I missed her but it scared hell out of her and she ran into a tree giving her a bloody nose. I trailed a deer with a nose bleed for almost two mile. I spent 3 days trying to find the bow loss. Still think about the bow loss.

Ackley,

No one is doubting your tracking ability. But you have stated that deer, specifically when hit with .277 bullets have gone farther than you would like and at least 1 went 300 yards.

Now I'm not a pro hunter, but I'm yet to see a lung or heart shot deer EVER go that far.

When folks use "it was a long tracking job", or "it went 300 Yards" that reeks of a gut shot deer.

In your "experience" with the .270, is it at all possible that you might have put the bullet in the paunch??

A badly hit deer will go a long way if pushed. And since you did not elabprate on your 6 or so .270 kills, what other conclusion do YOU think people with formulate?

You have yet to discuss shot angles, EXACT bullets that did not work in your opinion, etc, etc, etc...

Not a deer lives in the woods anywhere that can't be kilt with the .270 with 130gr Partition just as an example. And like I already mentioned, a bad shot is just plain and simply that and we ALL have made them. But I'm yet to blame a cartridge/rifle combo for that...

YMMV.

NOW WAIT JUST A COTTON PICKIN MINUTE...

Do I see an oxymoron ? Or just hear an ordinarymoron?

Jerry

Well...a man has to place his heart somewhere

The only deer killed with the 270 where the bullet made it to the paunch was a full frontal shot and that deer dropped to the shot. Sierra 130s and 150s, Remington factory 130 coreloc and speer 130. All of the loads were worked for accuracy.... except the factory load.. of course. It shot well and it is a bullet that has worked well for me.

So Dave...You don't like the Berger either? I have had nothing but good luck with 130 Sierra's on Deer out of the 270 Win even an Elk or two, but like your comment,it changed me to a stouter bullet for both Deer and Elk in the 270 on the same hunt.

But that was a long time ago when I turned Nosler when Nosler wasn't kool....The Sierra's of old may have been better/tougher than the new breed..I have no clue.

Happy New Year!!!!

Jayco

First day in Wyoming,went into the barn with Bill, and saw the head and cape of a good 6x6 bull elk on the floor.

I nudged it with my boot and said to Bill, "Yours?".

"Yup",he responded.

"Nice Bull", I said."270?"

"Yup".

"Partition?"

"Nope, Sierra", he replied.

I said, "You gotta stop doing that...one of those things will bust up on you one of these days."

"Yup..........maybe".

I read the post and if you read mine I said a "quick death". As Bob also stated after my post, I'm not defending Bob as he could speak for himself just fine but commenting on what I have observed first hand over the last 30 yrs. This thing has gone into a black hole very quickly and maybe everyone should take a deep breath and start over.

Welcome to the fire and I'll remember your suggestion on resteraunts when I get up to Alaska someday.

Jerry,

Mine is better than what you use..

I've been called worse but when it comes to 7mm's we all know they are far superior

Best regards and happy New Year to all

Chip --

..........

Happy New Year

Jerry

Happy new year to you too, Jayco. I would still love to see a picture of this year's elk kill.

I've related this story before, so please bear with me. When I was hunting with my 270, I noticed that the bullets almost never exited. I had exactly 2 exits on probably 50 kills with the 270. The animals died because I shot them in the ribcage and my bullets went to pieces inside the chest causing total destruction of the lungs and major arteries. When I cut the diaphram everything just poured out. Incidentally, of those 50 or so animals I killed with my 270, exactly one fell dead at the shot. The others ran anywhere from 20 to 200 yards or so. I started with 130gr Sierras because they were very accurate in my M70 featherweight (5/8" groups). I also tried Speer Hot Cors and Nosler ballistic tips, the early ones with the thin jackets. I killed many head of game in those days. Then one day I stalked within about 75 yards of a buck in a heavy snow storm. I shot the buck square on the shoulder with a 130gr Sierra and he fell on the spot. Then he squirmed and wiggled his way to his feet and ran off. I figured he went a little ways and fell dead, but I was wrong. I searched that entire woodlot until I jumped the buck 4 hours later. He ran with his front leg limp and I knocked him down with a running shot to the neck. Post mortem examination showed that the first shot hit squarely on the shoulder and almost blew the leg completely off, but did not penetrate into the vitals. I'm just glad I finally caught up to the buck and killed him so he did not go to waste.

Does all this mean that the 270 is no good? Of course not! It means that I asked a bullet to perform outside of its design parameters. The failure was mine, not the caliber, or even the bullet. Now, if I had been using a 6.5x55 with 140gr bullet at 2600 fps, or a 30-06 with a 180gr bullet, or 7x57 with 175gr bullet, I believe that buck's feet would not have left the prints they were standing in at the shot. That would probably also be the result had I been using a .277" bullet constructed to withstand the high velocity of the 270 cartridge and penetrate muscle and bone reliably without blowing to little copper and lead shreads.

Never tried Bergers. Too rich for my blood.

I never killed an elk with a 270, but given your experience and that of others here, I'm sure it is a fine choice. I would bet that if we always kept our bullets in the ribcage and never asked them to penetrate through heavy muscle and bone, we could kill elk successfully with calibers much lighter than the 270. I know some here like their 25-06 for the purpose, and Ray used his 25-35 IIRC. Unfortunately, I sometimes miss the exact spot I'm aiming for (believe it or not ) so I tend to err on the side of bullets that want to penetrate deeply. Call me a renegade.

The first deer I ever shot was in 1984 with a 270 and factory SP's from Federal. The little scrub 6pt dropped so quick I thought I'd missed. Fast forward to today and I've yet to have one in all the deer I've shot go more than 50 yards (and that one was my fault on shot placement). All others were dead on the ground within a few feet so I've never understood how some have deer run so far when the bullet is put where it should go. Maybe I've been fortunate. You said you've shot over 200 deer? What state do you live?

Big Redhead, my experience had been the opposite. In all my years and deer with the 270, I've (and two other family members) have yet to catch a bullet. All have been various cup and core's that were mostly broadside or slightly quartering shots, all exiting. We've had good results with Sierra's and years my brother and I used a load with the 130 Pro Hunters before I got a chrony. According to the Sierra manual they should've been going around 2950 or so fps. We killed a lot of deer and when I did finally get a chrony, found they were going around 2700-2750, but the funny thing is they worked great at that velocity which solidified to me not to run bullets outside their design and generally they will do the job.

Big Redhead is onto it IMHO.

I think the reason I have not experienced any difficulty killing things with a 270 (or anything else for that matter),is because the first thing my rifles get fed for a hunt is generally a Partition,or something equally tough.

Deer are generally regarded as a "soft" animal, and I agree...but the shoulders of a mature buck (which can range from 175 pounds to 400 pounds on the hoof),sets up a pretty fair amount of resistance to a high velocity bullet.This matters less at long range where velocity falls off a good deal, but can matter a lot at closer distances.

A good many folks feel a Partition is not "needed" for deer....maybe not. But I cannot recall having any deer smacked with a 270 through shoulders, at any distance, running off with a front leg swinging.This is because a 130 gr Partition will reliably bust up both shoulders of the largest deer around.

They simply do not go anywhere with such hits.My last large buck ( last year), was shot at the rear of the shoulders,spine snapped,as he ran by at about 70-80 or so yards...as the rifle recoiled I can still see his head dropping into his legs as he fell from sight.He was DOA.The bullet exited.

This is a VERY old story with Partitions,and the reason I am completely befuddled by some folks' never ending quest for the perfect deer bullet....or by 270 struck deer that run for miles and miles.

Even old timer friends without the benefit of the Internet,back in the 70's,loaded 130 gr Partitions in the 270 Win for mixed bag hunts in the Cassiars of BC.They would return home with dead bull moose, caribou, sheep, and grizzly ( yeah! grizzly! )mostly knocked off with a single shot.Theythought nothing of it all,and if you asked them was such game "tough", they'd look at you like you were an idiot.

I will bet I or anyone else on here can do exactly the same things with a 6.5/06, or 280 Rem loaded with a Partition,and hardly notice the difference between the three cartridges.

But if you keep picking BG bullets because they got little "cool" plastic tips and thin jackets that blow to smithereens,and keep using them from high velocity cartridges at moderate distances,penetration will be compromised. You will get away with it for quite awhile, but eventually, it will catch up to you.And you will wonder how little deer can take a smack, and run off.

well i like a 270 as much as anyone else but i must say i like my 6.5-06 as much , i load rl25 in mine and it spits out a 140 partition at 3100 fps and a barnes tsx 130 at 3290 yes shot over a chrono i have a hart 1-8 twist screwed into a rem 700 action

it has shot more critters than i can think to count and shoots very accurately , i was a bit hesitant to build the first one but now have 3

works very well

I agree on this fight is pooping me out. I used to think if a max load was good... a little more was a little better. Maybe I was just pushing the bullets to fast and hitting at to close range. ANY WAY I want to wish everybody a happy new year and hope you get all the draw tags you can afford. Like I said earlier, my son lives in Anchorage and the last of May I am heading up there for a boat hunt on Prince William sound for black bear and if we tag out soon enuf one of his buddies has had a brown bear hanging around his place for a couple of years. Be tooooo cool to get both bears. As long as he packs everything out for the old man. Stay safe.

M1Garand,

I rather think our experiences are more alike than opposite. Your experience with the 270 at the velocities you loaded is much like my experience with other bullets loaded to that velocity level. One very important thing I neglected to mention in my post is that back in those early days, I loaded my ammo hot. As long as I could open the bolt by hand I kept adding powder until I got CHE over 5 tenths or sooty primers, then backed down a half grain and finished the batch. I never chronographed those loads, but given the ejector marks on the headstamps and the loose, sooty primer pockets, it would not surprise me to find out that those 130gr Sierras were traveling 3200 fps or more.

I like to think I have learned a few things since those days. Most importantly, I no longer load "hot" (along with a few other stupid things I no longer do). I also learned, by experience and by listening to experts, that bullet terminal performance is determined by three main factors: 1- Bullet parameters, chiefly construction; 2- Impact velocity, and; 3- Target density, or "toughness." We can stretch one of these factors occasionally and probably get by with very few failures. But push all three past the limit and we're gonna get burned. By shooting a buck square in the shoulders with a lightly-constructed bullet at over 3000 fps, I definitely stretched all three factors, and I got burned. Fortunately, my buck was "sick" enough from having his front shoulder destroyed that he laid down within a few hundred yards and let me find him and finish the deal.

You know, when we all express our individual experiences truthfully and without excess emotion and embellishment, it appears that all our experiences are similar. The truth always rings out. It's just sometimes hard to distinguish from all the emotion (humerous posts aside, of course).

M1Garand
I live in S.E. Iowa. The largest part of the 200 fell to shotgun slugs. Till a few years ago we couldn't use rifles here. Now we have a short season in January we can shoot does with rifles. My son got me into bows about 10 years ago and I kind of got away from the guns and am just now getting back into them . The rifle kills were hunting in other states hunting with family and friends... Mo, Wy, Id,SD and the like. Had alot of fun over the years. Now it is about impossible to find a place to hunt unless you own or rent the ground. I have Lee and Tiffany Lacoski right across the road on 1800 acres. Talk about a bad dream. The first deer I killed with the bow, I can almost see the tree I was sitting in from my front deck. Now it is off limits. That buck is on my wall and measured 170 3/8 gross. Main frame 10 with some trash making him a 14 point. Now I am surrounded by outfitters with food plots and big wallets. As soon as the crops come off our ground the deer move and we rarly see much after that.

Feel your pain . I started deer hunting Iowa in 1990.Most farmers would let you hunt. I always brought salmon, sausage, booze as a gift for allowing us to hunt. About 5 years ago the word out with all of the celebutards, hunting shows. Lost the lease to one of these idiots. Real shame now a deer hunt runs around 4-5 K.

Now that's some irony...

Ribca
YA and if you can keep them off your property and stealing your tree stands. They had to cross their own NO TRESSPASSING sign to steal my climber. I went and got it back. They said they didn't think it needed to be there. A guy I work with was sitting in his own stand on his own property and he kept hearing a weird noise. After 2 hours of it he got down and went to see what was going on. There were dryer sheets on the fence by every post and a guy was walking up and down the fence banging on trees with a pan to keep the deer from crossing on to his property. They have land by my dad and they hired 2 people to patrol the fence line on 4 wheelers. Was @ the bow shop last year and a guy in there said he got video of them stealing his stand. Can you say GREED !!

ackley33806, I feel your pain to an extent. Texas has some small national forests in east texas other than that it is deer lease only and those are getting ridiculous. Before long if you aren't a suit you won't hunt. IMHO

ackley33806,

Are you saying that the Lakoskys are responsible for stealing your treestand, and for harassing your work friend while he was hunting?

I commented on what the OP was asking about at the start of this thread, but had not looked at it for some time. After clicking on it this morning and reading it from where I last left off until here, I felt the need to comment further.

I totally agree with Bob and John's oft-quoted comments. They are spot-on. There is not much wiggle room, if any. I have shot a lot of deer and antelope with a number of 270's over the years with all of the bullets listed earlier. I have not lost a single deer that I can recall, but the majority were taken with a Partition. I have also taken a number of deer and antelope with the three different 6.5-06's with the same results as the 270. And I have taken deer with the 6.5x55 Swede. Same results. I do not think a single animal taken with these three cartridges would have died any quicker by using one or the other of the three. Properly hit, the results were the same. However, any marginal hit resulted in needing to use tracking skills for varying distances. Our family group shoots primarily 270's with the same exact results I have witnessed on a personal level.

Lakoskys them selves did not steel my tree stand . Their hired man that puts in their food plots and such did it.... BUT they hired him and the other people too. They have no trespassing signs on trees about every 50 yards. One of the guys at work went to the IA whitetail classic and sat in on their little class. Someone asked them how many trail cams they had and how many were too many. Lee said they had like 250 and were buying more. He said he catches alot of people trespassing and was proud of his antics. I understand in his business you have to protect yourself but when it gets to the point of them trespassing to steal other peoples property, something is wrong with his thinking. About 1/2 half mile from my house, they had a guy just park and sit in a drive way to a field for all of early shotgun season. It is business but if you think about it, all the land the hord is land some kid can't go squirrel hunting on. I don't think they shoot does and you should drive by their massive food plots and see the does. We counted over 150 in one field while we sat in one spot along the road

BR, I should clarify, I meant that I'd had all of my shots pass through on deer and never recovered a bullet. I agree with your other points.

Just to catch up,I'll play with bullet seating a bit,but this load was a hummer!Four groups under an inch...!!

Cocadori,

Below is an image of my latest 6.5-06 from Roger...



Enjoy! Targets later.

Can't keep deer from runnin off with a 270.....lol
This lil feller(not so lil now) had no issues. Course he does shoot well

Yeah, exactly. I don't like the .270. I don't have any reason, I just don't like it. (Pay no attention to the four in my safe.) A 6.5-06 or .280 are much better, because I said so.

So there.



I am in the initial stages of getting a .264 Whelen put together... R700 ADL, probably a 24" fluted Benchmark tube, Mickey KS stock, Timney or Shilen trigger, S&K or Talley mounts, depending on what scope I decide to use (the S&B Summit is out, because of BobinNH and JGRaider pimping it so much the price went up $500 )

Just go mine yesterday!

pert near the same rifle!
Spoke with Roger this morning! Says you've had great results!
Looking forward to trippin' the trigger on mine!

ya know J once these guys figure out the 270 can't keep pace with the 6.5-06 we might have to wait longer for our next rifle with roger...laffin'

Yours sports a Shilen mine has a Rock.

While you Laddy O's are doing bunny hugs over trying to beat one of the world's greatest BG cartridges with an obscure invention that ain't seent the light of day as a factory cartridge....can you guys do me a favor,since I suck at math?

Sure looks to me like those lovely 6.5/06 rifles have barrels with faster twists than 98% of the 270's out there(twisted 10 since 1925);and the barrels sure look to me like 26" jobs,as compared to most 270's being 22".And I bet your comparisons might be based on 6.5 bullets with BC's in the .600's as compared to 270 slugs in the .400's or there abouts,and which have proved so woefully ineffective the past 87 years?

Well, since we should really level the playing field,it occurs to me you guys might be a bit out of date,it being 2012 and all.....so.... what has applied as generally true up until now, may no longer apply...Mmmm.

Wondering if you (or someone) might be good enough to run the numbers for a 26" 270 Winchester twisted 8 or 9 (whatever it takes to stabilize))and a 270 caliber 165 Matrix with a static BC of .7381? (BTW I don't know anything about all that G1,G2 stuff so you might wanna explain that as well?)

I could not find load data but suspect 2850-2900 might be doable from a 26" tube in 270 Winchester.....but hey, as long as we're gonna compare we might as well make those barrels even,huh? (I do recall an old very experienced rifleman/BG hunter who used to get hard on to 2900 with a 160 gr Partition and WW II H4831,from a barnacle encrusted pre 64 M70 270 with 24" tube.....but he only killed most of this continents BG with it, including a grand slam of sheep and an couple of grizzlies and alaskan brown bear......,so what the hell did he know about killing big game? )

Of course we could also talk about a 175 gr Matrix 270 with a BC of .7828,but that might need a magnum hull to move it fast and that would not really be fair, now.................. would it?

I would expect the 140 from a 6.5/06 to have a slight velocity edge, but that said the numbers may even out by the time we hit 1000 yards....no? Not to mention of course a 25-35 gr weight advantage for the 270,which really can't hurt anything,I guess...but who knows?

I did not take a look at the new Berger bullets in 270,but maybe we want to throw those into the mix as well...?

Let me know how the "numbers" work out when you're done....if incorrect I stand humbled, but got a funny feeling you boys may be well behind the times.The "differences" may be a lot less than you think.....

Meanwhile I'll pour a Scotch and try to ignore the several million world wide BG animals amassed by the 270 Winchester despite such overwhelming "handicaps",while the 6.5/06 has struggled for even a modicum of recognition in the world's BG fields.....it sure does seem to do well on the Innanet, though....

I have a 9 twist Brux going on a M70 action as we speak so this will all be of enormous assistance to me,for which I thank you, kindly...

Be fair in the comparisons now, no deck stacking cause I will call my pal Jordan in from Alberta to check the numbers....I may be a dunce at math, but he isn't....

Aww common Bobby settle down...



Nope 24"



well yeah but it isn't my fault you can't find or the high BC 270's are hard to find. Which really sorta solidifies my comment no?



Oh joy "A" person makes "A" bullet for the 270 that has a high BC..better send back my stick and re-barrel. sure hope my rifle barrel likes "THAT" bullet.




hmmm...... but no 26" load data? A 6.5-06 will do 3000 fps all day long and more if you so choose.



not gonna happen with a 270 hull and were are talking about comparing the same hulls just different calibers ...right...?



cause most 270 guys hunt AT 1000 yards + right?



looking at comparable post counts ..you seem to have this time to run numbers. So could you do it then post and then I'll check em... only seems fair...


This is all in jest bobby... and a comment made by me because it is my opinion.... but unbunch your panties as it make the banter and jesting more pleasurable for ya...

jus' sayin'.. laffin

Cocadori,
I'd like to see the numbers as well. At least if you're going to be biased, you should back it up.

He hinted at most of them. Not my job to do his math.

Even by 1000 yards? A specific bullet?

I've always wanted a .270 high BC well made bullet. Not my problems the makers are slow to see the light.

For now the 6.5-06 is the one for me. I've sever loads and bullet combinations that will get me to 1000 easily... tough to say that with a 270 win.

My panties aren't bunched at all

...this is all in jest and for comparative purposes,but...you guys DO stack the deck and then compare...

....among common bullets, I see 130 6.5 AB's from Nosler at .488;270-140 AB's at .496...where's the difference?

One source of bullets? You didn't include Bergers for the 270.....I am saying the game is changing;you guys are clinging to old notions...

If 6.5 is "good",and 7mm is "good" how come something in the middle cannot be just as "good"....it isn't 6.5 magic....it's bullets and barrels and you folks don't wanna see it..

6.5 mavens always say the 270 does not have the bullets.....well, here they are!What now?

And how come you can have a special barrel for a wildcat 6.5,and a 270 can't? What is THAT all about.....

You guys would be a riot in front of a judge under oath....I'd have you all twisted in knots in no time

Numbers Cocadori......I want to see the numbers....show me...prove me wrong.The bullets are now here.

Get 'em Bob!.........I''m loving it........

Bob,
I vote for magic. It settles the argument with one word.

This 6.5-06 vs 270 ballistic gack is All Goodness...

Methinks the Oracle at Delphi would say : "280 Remington"...

Oh no....you're killing me.........



Casey

Casey: Well the mantra on here has always been "bullets, not headstamps".....OK, well here are the bullets...

One source? So what? I hunted for years all over the continent with Bitterroots....they were "one source"....Nosler Partitions were "one source"...

One of the first things I figured out about rifles is that you could only shoot one bullet at a time...

I love the irony and double standards.....wildcat 6.5 guys get to build 26" fast twist custom tubes.....but if a 270 guy does it,it's not "kosher"?

Kinda reminds me of the 280AI guys loading to the gills, then telling 7 Rem Mag guys they have to dumb down their loads to keep it all even.....this is a funny place!

I am not saying I am right,I'm sayng I want to see the differences ......if there is this universe of difference,show me.

You are correct, it isn't.....but if you have a basis for stating the 270 is not the equivilent of the 6.5/06,I'm saying you might just be wrong in light of newer bullets.....it is as simple as that.

real quick before I head to work....


ok I gave you the benifit and used a 26" tube for both.

Berger bullets for both:

270 150 gr Match Grade VLD Hunting .277 150 0.531

6.5 140 gr Match Grade VLD Hunting .264 140 0.612


Used IMR 7828 just under max pressure for both.

270 at 2968 and the 6.5 at 3010 fps

270 with the 150 at 500 yards:

10 moa drop 2141 fps and 1527 of energy

1000 yards

27.5 moa drop 1477 fps and 727 of energy




So the 6.5 with the 140 at 500 yards:

8 moa drop 2277 fps and 1611 of energy

1000 yards

24.5 moa of drop 1663 fps and 859 of energy


I used QL and exbal as a reference

so Berger bullets for both. High speed powder for both and 26" tube for both...

6.5-06 wins.

crickets....

OK...where are the Matrix bullets?

Crickets? I'm on the phone with a client LOL!

Damn, I hate when paying the bills (or paying for new rifles) gets in the way of gack!

KDK: Don't you hate it when that happens?

That should pay for a new custom .264 rifle. I figure a lawyer on a Sat. probably gets double his usual 500/hr rate.

DT: Time and a half....

Bc's would have been closer had he used the 6.5 130 gr VLD @ .552.

Dang looked at the Matrix VLD Hunting bullets:

165 gr: static bc @ .7381

175 gr: static bc @ .7828

Ouch those would hurt those numbers alot

And they are heavier....something to be said for that...even IF they leave a bit on the table to lighter 6.5's.....energy figures never killed an elk..

Always knew there was a reason I built a Mashburn.

You said I forgot Bergers so I used em.

You said you'd need a magnum hull for the heavy matrix.

Why would one put all their eggs in one basket... ala hoping one bullet will work?

BC's woulda been closer... 6.5 still wins no?

Energy doesn't kill but Impact velocity plays a significant role. 6.5-06 still winning...

Can you imagine those matrix bullets running out of a fast twisted 270 Weatherby magnum? But then again I don't shoot game at 1000 yds anyway.

Ran an estimate for the matrix (165)

the most velocity I could get ( staying safe using QL) was

2890 fps

at 500 yards (comparing to the Berger 140 in .264)

Drop is 8.5 MOA and velocity is 2289 fps

Matrix only has in in velocity by 12 fps

at 1000 yards

24.50 moa and 1770 same drop but only 107 fps gain.

not much performance for risking everything on one bullet.

Now since we changed bullets for the 270 I changed to the 139 scenar for the 6.5-06.

safely to 3087 fps

at 500 yards

7.5 moa drop and 2345 fps

at 1000 yards

23 moa drop and 1722 fps

Matrix only has it by 48 fps and that's the only gain and it takes 1000 yards for it to get that tiny gain.

Now albeit I only played with the QL a little bit.. but overall I think it was a pretty fair evaluation.

I've always wanted a high BC good bullet in 270. More makers need to get to the drawing table to compete with the 6.5's

crickets again....

I dunno....I haven't seen the Matrix yet.....and there is a heavier Berger than 150 now. Hybrid I think.....yeah the comparison with the Bergers is of course valid....we can both cherry pick;but I think your 270 vels are a bit light from a 26" tube...I think the 150 will go over 3000 FWIW.

I really do not know how that Matrix bullet changes the game but it simply has to have an effect.Yes for the 175 a magnum hull might make more sense....I think the 165 would do well in the standard case.....not much difference between it and an Amax 162,and guys run those from 7/08's and 280's all the time....no one dumps on those combo's,and I see no reason why a 165 Matrix should not put a 270 solidly into the same class.

BC's over 700 have to count for something.... Even with a "win" on paper, I think the field is considerably narrowed now and it would be pretty hard to tell the difference in the field....with many bullets it already is.Practically speaking, if I seriously contemplated shooting animals beyond 600 yards, I'd want a 7mm,just "because"....neither a 6.5 or a 270 would be my choice.


I understand the velocity/expansion thing....if you grew up using tough bonded bullets,you could see it very clearly.

I did a 26" tube for both. Using the same QL set up for both. I know for a fact that the QL is light on the 6.506 results because I've run them well over 3100 safely. However, accuracy isn't there.

I do hunt at distance. mostly I solo hunt now. So I wanted wind bucking ability and flatter shooting to 500-700 yards. Slam dunk for the 6.5-06. The 270 simply can compete.

For 1K I whole heartedly agree the 7's are where it's at.

I did grow up using hard tough bonded bullets. But I've moved away from them for obvious reasons. There's better out there for my applications.

Again, I wish pills makers would catch up with the 270 caliber. Maybe it can't be done I dunno...

Oh, I didn't see this when I responded in my last post.....you were ahead of me! Well OK it seems we have somewhat equaled the playing field.....I musta guessed about right at the 2900 velocity from a long tube....looks like they are pretty close.

Sure, it's a one bullet thing but my point in the whole exercise was not to take you on personally (you are too smart for that but simply to hopefully demonstrate that the 270 is not the useless, chump change LR cartridge that some on here make it out to be....and maybe draw their attention to the fact that a lot of what we think we "know" is a holdover from bygone days when the technology had caught up to some cartridges, and not others.....

Justa couple of years ago, we did not have these 270 bullets, but we do now,and maybe this trend will continue,challenging what we thought we "knew"...

Touche! And thanks for your time and effort.....You're a good sport!

I can think of 3 excellent LR bullets that are available, or soon will be, in .277":

- Berger EOL Hybrid 170gr
1.52" long
170 grains
Recommended twist 1:8.5"
Estimated G1 BC: 0.703
Estimated G7 BC: 0.360

- Matrix 165gr VLD
- Matrix 175gr VLD

That's 3 choices. If your rifle won't shoot one of the 3 bullets accurately, then I'd look to the loading techniques, other cartridge components, or the rifle itself. It wouldn't be hard to get an 8 or 9" twist tube made and twisted onto a decent action. I would think that any of these 3 high-BC .277" bullets would work fine in a standard .270 Win, assuming you used a mag that allowed bullets to be seated out nice and long, and a throat that accommodated same.

Here are a couple of our beloved charts *grin*, using JBM, of the 170gr Berger Hybrid (using the BC listed above), 140gr 6.5mm JLK VLD, and the 139gr Scenar:

6.5mm 140gr JLK VLD at 3050fps
600 yards
Drop (MOA)-9.0
Wind drift (MOA)3.0
Velocity 2195

1000 yards
Drop (MOA)-22.0
Wind drift (MOA)5.7
Velocity 1698

6.5mm 139gr Scenar at 3050fps
600 yards
Drop (MOA)-9.1
Wind drift (MOA)3.2
Velocity 2145

1000 yards
Drop (MOA)-22.8
Wind drift (MOA)6.2
Velocity 1624

.277 170gr EOL Hybrid at 2850fps
600 yards
Drop (MOA)-10
Wind drift (MOA)2.8
Velocity 2136

1000 yards
Drop (MOA)-23.8
Wind drift (MOA)5.2
Velocity 1712

And for comparison:

Jordan .. I agree. But..It still barely beats the JLK.

Part of the argument was also that the 270 is a factory option 10 twist where as the 6.5-06 you need a custom barrel/twist.

Now you're into a custom barrel/twist with the 270.

I'll agree however, that the playing field is more level.

However, the 6.5 has more bullet choices. That in itself still trumps the 270.

I'm sure the bullet makers will catch up with 270 options sooner or later.

Bob,

yup.. I try to remain level headed and never took it personally.

I contemplated the 270 but couldn't take a chance on waiting for good/better bullets.

errr... well???

Nothin' but crickets chirpin' in your corner...

laffin'

There's no question that if you want to shoot the truly great LR bullets in either cartridge you'll need a custom 8-9" twist barrel, with an appropriate throat. But as a caliber, .277" is no longer at the disadvantage that it once was. Ballistic advantage is purely due to the bullets and barrels made available for any given caliber, and there are finally a few good bullets on the market in .277, with fast-twist barrels to match.

A large bullet selection is a good thing, but I have to ask, how many bullet choices does a guy really need? I could happily get along doing all of my hunting with 1 of the 3 options listed above for the LR stuff (the 170gr Berger EOL Hybrid Hunting looks REALLY good), and then an AB, TTSX, or PT for anything I might shoot within 400 yards. I do the same thing with my 7mm rifles. A 140gr TTSX for sub-400 yard work, and the 162gr A-Max for anything beyond that range (I could happily substitute the 168gr or 180gr VLD and 140gr AB, if selection in 7mm was more limited). Those two bullets get the job done for me. I really don't capitalize on the huge bullet selection available in 7mm, and I suspect that most guys likewise choose 1 or 2 bullets to use in any given rifle.

Ok, you came through and I agree that you are a good sport.

With those 170s, the 270 WSM is also looking like a viable long range performer. There's a guy over at SH running the 175 Matrixes in a comp style rig... Pretty cool.

But I'd still love a 6.5-06

You and I are on the same page mostly.

However, I do often tend to look at the match bullets for many of my endeavors. I like to have a large selection as different rifles like different things err most of the time. I tend to gravitate towards the Powder/Primer/Bullet/hull that the rifle likes best and shoot the tiniest group with the lowest ES. For that reason option are nice.

I realize many choose bullet first.

Yeah I've often wanted to build a 270 wsm but the bullets were the hold back.
I saw the stuff over on the hide.
I gotta tell ya that this year many of my perspectives changed. This 6.5-06 has me tweaked. I was never a fan of the LA but seeing the advantages and options the 6.5-06 gave me with the selection of bullets I'm not sure there isn't anything I couldn't hunt.

I was looking hard and long at a 260 rem then the Swede. I about pulled the trigger on the Swede. Talked to Roger and then was sold on the 6.5-06.

If I draw the sheep tag in the near future. I'll build the 260 if and only if to reduce weight in as many area's as possible.

Cocadori, what sorta E.S/S.D do you look for in your long range rigs?

Call me crazy... but after competing in 1K br for a bit and talking and shooting with many of the best of the best. Their opinions and experience were pretty much always on the money.

10 is the magical number for ES. Or as close as possible to it. Lower don't hurt.

Over the years I'd say I was between 10 and 15 normally.

My best rifles were between 8 and 12. the rifle I shot my best group at 1K with was an "8" rifle.

The 6.5-06 I've been shooting is a "12" rifle.

Cool, kinda though it'd be in that ballpark. The 243/105 AMAX load I have been running is showing an SD of like 13... But an ES of 30 (the 5 I clocked today.) I'd like to drop it down a bit...

Tried the Bergers?

I'm a fan of the amax but different bullets might help ya.

Not sure what powders you've tried.

I was getting 13/14 with bergers in this 6.5 then changed to scenars and got the consistent and sometimes lower than 12.

I've been inching closer to "10" as I wear in the barrel a bit more.

I'm right on the edge of stabilization with this factory tube. I'll likely just toast it with the AMAXes and do a rebarrel this summer/fall... Either 243A.I. or 260. But I digress...
Retumbo has given the best accuracy, spreads, and velocity oddly enough. Been nice not having to compromise one for another.

QL tells me that you might wanna look at

IMR 7828
VVN 560
RL 22 ( always an accurate one)

This is the first year I ever tried 7828. (I've always been an "H" kinda guy )

I changed to this 7828 and it was like my rifle "was awakened"

good stuff...

I'd go 260.. alleviates the FF stuff.

Kinda my thoughts on the 260 vs. 243 A.I. as well. I've shot 7828, H4350& 4831sc, H100v and Retumbo in the 243. 7828 does well for me outta the 280/162amax load, and 300Ackley/180 TTSX. Good stuff. Saw your post about it with your 6.5.... what a screamer.

Well, if you wanna be cool you're going to have to AI it either way, whether you go .243 or .260...

Aww c'mon man! I'm already gonna have 280a.I. fireform duties! 260A.I. is skookum, but so is straight 260

I guess fireforming ain't nothin but letting little sis shoot a few boxes, but those dies are expensive!

Hmmm...

Punchin the 280 to a 280Ai might be worth the effort...

jus' sayin' ;-)

yeah the 6.5-06 Tactical is a screamer. With the suppressor attached nominal recoil.

Interested to see how your hunting rig shoots.

The 280 will be punched during the summer, and an M1 will adorn it.... Should hunt

Me too!.. weather is not in my favor for break in an load development.

Today was the first day it wasnt blowing 40+, got out and shot a little bit. What glass will be used on that one? Loads?

Cocadori,it was never my intention to try to establish clear superiority of one of these calibers over the other(6.5,270,7mm)....only to establish that the 270 caliber is not as "bad" as some have believed it is;this no doubt coming from a lack of projectiles and suitably faster twist tubes.If I was going to have this discussion with anyone, it had to be someone who knew their stuff,and would be honest about it,which you clearly do...

This is the reason I have generally gone 7mm with a lot of my builds.

That said, friends and I built quite a few cut rifle barrels for 270 back in the 80's that were twisted 8.5-9,but for completely different reasons.

There really were no LR bullets available back then (by todays standards)....so I never saw a reason other than that,for the cartridge and bore size to lag behind the others,and it was always said to be bullets and twistt rate that caused it.

I know it will not likely catch up to the 6.5's and 7mm's in the target arena, because most (all) factory tubes are twisted 10,because that's what the cartridge started out with and factories don't often catch up with hard core shooters for quite a long time.

But anyone contemplating a new 270 barrel might want to consider a faster twist.....I wish I knew about the Matrix bullets before ordering my new Brux, which is twisted 9,shoulda gone 8.5....but I will live with it...

I suspect the bullet situation could continue to improve as folks become more aware that with the improved bullets, the bore size can acquit itself pretty well.

Another bore size similarly challenged is 25 caliber....bumped into an old article by Ken Waters on the 257 Roberts and he mentions that Ned Roberts did a lot of experimenting with all twists for the Roberts (and other 25's) way back when....he noticed it took an 8 or 9 twist to keep a 117 gr 25 bullet "point on" at 800 yards,and a 10 twist did not cut it at Roberts velocities....I have noriced that it can be tough to get some 117-120 to shoot well in a 10 twist at Roberts velocity and have long felt the old standard 10 twist in many 25's was too slow.

But old standards die hard and manufacturers keep feeding the same stuff....it takes the LR shooters and better bullets to flush this stuff out.

The jury is out on glass. I'll break it in and develop loads using a NF. I'd like to find a "hunting style" scope that is metric/mil based with a reticle that is "Christmas Tree" like. I havn't seen anything out there like that yet. I've switched to being a meter reader and mils a few years back. Amazingly simpler than yards and MOA. Took a while to totally convert though.

I'm gonna try Bergers and Scenars with 7828. If that doesn't work I'll go with the same bullets and H4831sc.

Those 3.5-10 NFs look pretty ideal.... Thought you might look at that one.

Yup thought about it...but I have myself wonderin' if I should just jump at the 3.5-15 for just a few bucks more.

I shoot the MLR ret. in all my other scopes and the 3-10 doesn't have that option.

Those are pretty cool reticles for sure. Nice and quick for those shots where turret spinning ain't an option, but it usually is

I'm lookin forward to a range report!

Tag for reference

Old thread

Bump

Living in Alaska makes caliber selection easy. Get some thing from a .270 Winny up to a .338 Winny as your "all around critter gitter" and shoot a good bullet into the right place and eat up. With the great bullets we now have I guess a .308 or 7mm-08 would also work and many Alaskans have gone that route.

My dear old Dad was the only Alaskan I am aware of that thought a 6.5 bullet was and "all around" good choice. His choice of caliber was the .264 Winny in his old Mod. 70 with the slender 26" barrel, a case full of surplus H4831 and a 140 grain Nosler Partition. His friend Ken had been in Alaska since the 50's and he favored the Mod. 99 Savage in .300 Savage. For the most part, If one had and old Mod. 70 in 30-06 stoked with 180 grain Partitions or a .270 Winny with 150 grain Partitions one was well armed and knew they had a good "all around critter gitter", many used a reworked 03-A3 in ought six and several had them altered to the .308 Norma.

I started out with and old 03A3 ought six Springfield and it worked great. But, knowing what I know now, if I lived in the "states", most of my hunting would done with a .270 Winny or a 6.5 Creed. Deer and antelope don't look big to me and I have never shot over 500 yards. That would also give me a reason to hope Tikka would make their T3X Superlite stainless gun in 6.5 PRC. If elk were on the menu for me I would want the heaviest Barnes LRX bullet for either caliber with H4350 and not worry about looking for faster velocity.

Either bullet from either caliber would work and no critter would complain about your choice, but the paper ballistics favor the .270 for most hunting shots out to 500 yards. I have an urge to have some flavor of a 6.5-06 made up on the small ring Mauser Husky ought six I have, but don't see it being my main "critter gitter" or range gun, as the Tikka Creed I got a few months ago works for that. But, like I said, if Tikka ever comes out with a 6.5 PRC Superlite, sign me up if I ever hunt state side.

Back to the 6.5-06 of some flavor and the .270 Winny. With equal bullet structure, shot placement and max velocities either cartridge is capable of. Nothing any one ever shoots will be able to tell the difference between the two. Only the Rifle Loonies will be able to tell a difference, because they are internet "Rifle Loonies" only they know which choice is the right choice! I am ok with that.

Did I ever tell any of ya the influence Elmer had on me when was a young boy in Iowa and at age 13 and had only seen 7 deer and never hunted them? Did I ever tell ya bout coming to Alaska in 1965 and all the critters that were available prior to the wretched pipe line and Native land claims? I could puke.