Hi, maybe I've been on the campfire too long and now my internet experience is far broader than my actual field one!

I am going soon on a white tail doe hunt. Never shot at WT before, or any game with the SGKs.
The guy Im going with says shots are going to be about 100yds or less. My concern is that I have my reloads with 160gr SGK for a 7mm RM. I know it will take them down, my concern is if it will open up of just punch through???
Should I switch to partitions (they shoot to almost the same POI) that will lose the tip and open up or just keep those and shoot away? No biggie, except loading up the PT's
No other gun or time to work up another recipe

Thanks!

The GK's will work fine--though they will shoot up more meat than some other bullets.

oh I think there will be no issue with them opening up.
I bet the deer fold up like cheap chair under a heavy load.

shoot hem or her.

John, do you suggest switching to Partitions or the same will happen at those close ranges???
The bullets should have about 2900 fps at the muzzle.
I am planning on waiting for a double lunger, but sadly that is not always the case.

I switched to GameKings in my 30-06 a few years ago and since have taken whitetails from 15 to 200yds. Amazing results from taking several different shots (we have a very liberal season in Al) I have take Neck shots, double lung and through the shoulder broad side. Couldn't be happier with the 165gr gameking at factory loaded velocities.

Neck shots don't hurt much meat.... ;-)

I use the 165 Gameking HP in a .30-06 and a .308, at 2800 and 2690 fps respectively, and they seem to hold up fairly well. I was advised by a Sierra Rep that if I had any worries about the Gameking holding together, try the HPBT. So far, they have been doing their job. And accurate, too.

I don't think they would fair so well at .300 mag velocities and close range impacts.

160g Sierra GK and a 7 Mag is a match made in Heaven!

My family has killed several hundred whitetails with a load of 61g of IMR 4831 and a CCI250 primer or 61g of IMR 4350 with a 9 1/2. Deer near and far just drop in their tracks, bullet will not blow up on shoulder at 15 yards, neither will it puch through.

Good luck!

Shoot what you've got. They'll work fine and if you shoot them in the lungs there isn't much wasted anyway. Sierra's are good bullets and I've had more Hornady's "blow up" then SGK's, for whatever that's worth.

The 160 SGK in the 7RM on whitetail is a great match. I don't care for the 150 SGK in the same cart as they seem to not exit about as much as they do exit, but the 160 has just enough more to it to plow on through. The slightly lower MV with the 160 helps as well.

On small TX does, your current load couldn't get any better.

Good luck on your hunt.

loder

I would agree with that. It doesn't take a freight train to put down a whitetail or very many sub-200 lb. mammals.

The older 160 gr 7mm BTSP Sierra taught me to shoot for the double lung shot or FAR shoulder ,if you wanna break big bones shoot for the far side ones so you will allready have done the vitals.JMHO Magnum Man

The following was from a 100 yard shot. 30-06, 165 grain Gameking, light load of 55gr H4350. Short range, but not very fast. I usually don't shoot for shoulders as heart/lung broad side shots touch much less meat. The only shot I had here was the onside shoulder at a hard angle with the deer facing away. The bullet broke the onside shoulder but didn't go through the shoulder and followed the skin about 10-12 inches up the neck. Deer dropped right there. Pulled the jacket and part of the core out. Much of the core was spead across the wound trail.

I've used the Gameking for many years and usually get pass through's on broadside shots. Dead deer, but I prefer not to have a trail of lead left behind in the wound channel. The Gameking is a good shooter and performs well on broadside shots, but isn't my choice if I have to shoot for bone...either way, it will work though.....

Sierra was making great bullets when I started reloading as a kid, 50 yrs ago. They're still making great bullets. Not as trendy or as sexy as some of the newer, highly marketed offerings by other vendors, just boringly effective with great quality control and efficiency. A great value, as always and they just keep on keeping on...

Sierras are to the bullet world what the 30-06 is to the cartridge world...

DF

I've seen what JCMCUBIC is showing happen a number of times.IMO that's not a good thing.You'd want the core and the jacket to stay intact.

I've been told that the Sierra Prohunter bullets stay intact.

I've used Game Kings on a few whitetails and been pleased with the results.

I've used-

6mm 85gr HPBT- very short range shot on an average doe, shot behind the shoulder. Bullet speed was probably about 3,150fps. Hit a rib on the way in and the bullet pulverized the internal clockwork of the deer. DRT. Bullet didn't exit, but the base of the jacket did make it to just under the hide on the offside.

6mm 100gr SPBT- shot several with this bullet, most in the front shoulder and usually got exits. The exception would be a small buck that was sniffing after a doe. He moved just as I squeezed the trigger and my shot, coming from above since I was in a tree stand, hit him in the pelvis at a downward angle. He went down on the spot, but required a finishing shot. Bullet didn't exit but made one heckuva mess with all the bone fragments.

7mm 120gr Pro-Hunter. I know that this is not a Game King bullet, but thought I'd include it anyway. This is a relatively useless example of one. 75 yard shot from my short barreled 7-08. Impact velocity approx. 2,900 fps. Bullet hit at the rear of the nearside ribs and traveled forward exiting just behind the offside shoulder.

Last example-My BIL had some .224" Sierra 55gr HPBT bullets loaded up for my sister's (his wife) .223 Ruger compact. I'm not sure about the velocity, but I do know that the guy he had load them is not a speed freak and will take accuracy over velocity all day long. She has shot 2 or 3 whitetails at less than 100 yards with this bullet. All behind the should lung shots. I don't recall hearing about any DRTs, but I know that any runners only go about 40-50 yards.

Sponxx, try to keep shots in the ribs, if clean table fare is the goal.

gunner

If 100-120lb doe shoulders start stopping 160 SGKs at 3k MVs, we all need new hobbies.....

Doe shoulders will not stop load in question, but will be sh-tcanned if hit.

Gunner

I have had superb results with the Sierra Pro Hunter line of bullets. The couple I have recovered are peeled way back to the shank of the bullet (6.5 120 grain). They are super accurate as well. Deer aren't hard to kill, so your 160's will be fine. I would HIGHLY doubt a deer could keep one inside...especially a doe. Shoot for the ribs if you want the meat. White tail doe meat is among my favorites. Flinch

I've done in a couple with the game king, and a couple with match kings. They work. like forty 'leven have already posted, deer ain't that hard to kill.

Unless it's in a smaller cal.

My friend recently called Sierra about the 160 GameKing to be used in a 7WSM....tech told him the 175, and I believe the 150's had heavier jackets then the 160's. I could be wrong, but its worth a phone call to Sierra. I could be mixing up the 160 and 150, but I don't think so.
Anyway, I don't think you'll have any problem if your aiming for the boiler room, or through the boiler room towards off-side shoulder.

Good luck with your hunt,
johnny

+1. I shoot the 165 HPBT in my '06 over IMR4064. Very accurate and it performed well on deer this year.

A Sierra Tech rep told me the same thing, that the bullet had a tougher jacket than the standard Gameking. Have not tried it, but he stated that it would also hold together using my 300wm.

My first couple of mulies were downed with 150 gr 30 cal SGK's from an '06. Killed effectively but blood shot a bunch of meat. I moved on to 180's and the blood shot meat pretty much ceased. I do like the fact that I can develop a load for a Partition and Sierra pretty much has a GK in a similar weight and BC. Practice with the GK and hunt with the Partition.

Alan

Thanks guys. I guess I wasn't worried about the bullet not killing the does, and should have explained myself better. My concern was that the bullet might be too though on a ribs shot and not expand enough for a quick kill meaning waaaay overpenetrate...
But I guess it seems it will be fine enough.
My only 2 other animals a pronghorn and a mulen deer were shot with the same gun, the goat with the same weight Partition (DRT) and the mule deer with a 150 Winchester CT - which I think is a ballistic tip... both did the trick.
My plan with the SGKS was just as GSSP said, to develop a load and transition to the PT's... will experiment and see if it is necessary, since I do want to eat them.

"My concern was that the bullet might be too though on a ribs shot and not expand enough for a quick kill meaning waaaay overpenetrate."

Back in 2009 I finally got to do a hunt for pronghorn antelope.
My choice of rifle was a Winchester M70 XTR in .270 win. shooting a 150 gr. Sierra game King at 2950 FPS powered by Winchester's long discontinued WMR powder.
After about a half mile stalk, I took my shot at roughly 75 yards. The 150 gr.GK hit the left side at the back of the rib cage and exited just behind the right shoulder with about a 1.5" exit wound. The "goat" moved off in about a 30 foot half circle and expired. The bullet just nicked the stomach but didn't mess up the guts real bad and there was very little meat damage. The antelope weighed about 110/120 pounds.
I'm guesing you load isn't a heck of a lot faster than mine so i think you should not have any problems provided you make a good rib cage shot. Not too sure what'll haappen on a shoulder hit of some kind though. Good luck on the hunt.
Paul B.

I shot a whitetail in '08 with 225gr. Game King in my .35 Whelen, shot square in the lungs the buck went only 30yds. Left a blood trail a blind man could follow.

These posts are quite a bit different than some time back when even the mention of Sierra bullets brought out throngs that said only a Triple Shock could stop a whitetail....

Glad to see a return to common sense.

Long

Yep...

Double-lunger last year with the .308 at 50 yards.

At impact, on the far side:



The "death run", which wasn't too far:



'Twas purty easy to find..

What bullet in the 308 was that? I'm considering the 150 and 125 Pro Hunter. How fast?

165 HPBT Gameking, 2690 fps.

I've used the 160 SGK on deer. Mule deer and the 160 went right through pencil hole in dime size exit. I switched back to my 139 Gr. Hornady to put him down. By the way you don't need more than cup and core bullet on deer.

I used 165 SGK in my '06 for years and never recovered one.

I wouldn't hesitate for a min. to use that combo again.

Personally, I'd probably opt. for a 165 NBT, but that is my opinion.

Only because I am a Nosler slut.....

Tony

No reason to go with the Partition. Your load will work just fine. I wouldn't worry about the bullet not opening, in fact I'd stay away from the shoulders to avoid wasting meat. If you had time to work up a new load, you might even try to load up the same bullet a couple hundred feet slower. It'd kill just as dead and be less apt to blow away a shoulder if you happen to hit one.

Good luck!

Thanks Vic. I've got some of the 165 in both BT and BTHP but thought they might be a little too tough for lung shots. Looks like that is not the case. How far did that deer go?

If you look in the upper right corner of the last pic, you will see the bank of a dry creekbed. He tried to jump it, fell in, recovered, and made it to the top on the other side. All-in-all, he went about 20 yards.

Dry creekbed shot:

I've killed a lot of deer with Sierra Pro Hunters over the years. Excellent performance (never lost one) and very accurate in my 280 A.I. I use 140 grainers for deer. I love Partitions but use them for heavier game than deer. I think partitions are overkill for deer sized critters but I never saw a deer too dead.

reloaded 140gr game kings over IMR 4350 for years for a .270, extremely accurate but also more bloodshot meat than anything else i've ever used. I switched to the barnes TSX in my hunting rifles for that reason (with the exception of a long range rifle that gets bergers) and have never regretted the decision.

Back when I used a .30/06 for all of my deer killing, I used the 165 BTHP, at around 2850 fps. Deer killed inside of 100 yds. (which was most of them) had huge amounts of bloodshot meat, often resulting in the loss of an entire shoulder. Kills were always nearly instantaneous. Then I wised up and started loading them down to around 2500 fps and life was good, not to mention easier on the shoulder and hearing, and kills were still nearly instantaneous. Accuracy which was great initially actually improved at the lower velocity levels. I don't use a .30/06 much anymore, but the reduced load with the boat tails is still the go-to load when I do.

Note: these observations were in Eastern white tail hunting conditions. Long range shooting conditions would have probably tempered my attitude toward reduced power levels.

Whitetail at 100 yds? If I didn't know that's what you all were talking about. I'd think it was for elk.

A core-lokt should kill it with no problems. Since when did deer get so tough?

Don't do it man.

They'll bounce off.

I have used GK from my .35 Whelen and they are very accurate. Kills deer quite well as well as a couple of small black bears but they do tend to separate jacket and core, but it has not seemed to make any difference with the killing power.

I've shot a dozen or so whitetail with my Whelen using 225 gr. Game Kings. I haven't recovered a bullet yet, all pass throughs.

This issue has been hashed and rehashed many, MANY times here, but I guess not everybody reads all the threads, or chooses to learn from them. So here it is again, from me and everyone else, for better or worse.

Sierra GameKings are "soft" bullets, relative to many other kinds of bullets. Soft bullets are more frangible than hard bullets, and tend to penetrate less reliably as velocity increases or target hardness increases. If we shoot soft bullets, we need to either shoot them at lower velocity, or keep them in soft spots on the target to ensure sufficient penetration. The 7mm RM is not a low velocity round, so if we use soft bullets in it, we must place the bullets in softer spots on game. That means broadside ribcage shots. Bullets placed in the ribcage of a whitetail deer only have to penetrate about one inch to reach vital organs and kill the animal. IME, a 160gr Sierra GameKing will definitely penetrate the ribcage of a deer and kill it quickly. The high velocity of the 7mm RM and rapid bullet expansion will turn everything in the ribcage to mush. Mush can't breath air or pump blood, so the deer will die quickly. The bullet may or may not exit, but it doesn't matter because the killing damage is done.

OTOH, if you shoot a soft bullet at high velocity and place it in a hard spot, like a shoulder joint or at a severe raking angle, you risk not reaching the vitals due to insufficient penetration of the soft bullet and wounding an animal that may run for miles and be lost.

I recommend you take your 7 mag and Sierra bullets doe hunting. There are usually a lot of does and usually more shot opportunities and time to wait for a broadside shot than when hunting bucks. The does will die and you will reap copius venison.

Sierra + whitetail deer = meat in the freezer.


Simple as that.

Absolutely use game kings on whitetails. Harvested two this year with game kings.

Not to derail the thread, but I'm surprised no one has mentioned the killing power of Match King bullets yet. That stirred up a hornet's nest some years ago!



What!!?!? Is that deer wearing a vest?

Picking up and updating... I never doubted the killing capacity of the bullets, I was concerned that on a double lunger they might not expand quickly enough.

Brief summary - I got my first 2 WT deer and my first animals with my reloads!

Conclusion:
7mm RM + 160gr SGK's, 64gr of RL22 and Rem 9 1/2Mag primers do expand quickly enough vs WT spike, even on a broadside shot at ~80yds. DRT and all reflex movement stopped in less than 30seconds, hit it 2 inches too far, but destroyed 1 lung, diaphragm and the liver.

I also had found 3 bullets loaded with 160gr NPT over the same components but 63gr of RL22 instead, same POI at 100yds for all practical purposes.
A white tail deer spike does stop a PT on a frontal shot center chest, though does not live enough to even realize it. DRT at 100yds and actually got turned about 30 degrees with the impact.
Pulverized sternum and ribs, broken front leg bone (not from bullet but from impact) and dislocated the other one, heart smushed in half, intact lungs, tore diaphragm, poked a clean hole in the paunch and got lost somewhere in there. I did a freaking autopsy (I am actually an MD too) and could not find the bullet in the stomach, no exit hole in it and no entry hole in the rest of the abdominal organs, so it got lost there somewhere.

I am uploading some gory pics for illustration purposes, I hope people brought their eye bleach

Texas Hill Country


First Spike - no entry wound visible, but about 2 inches behind the shoulder on the on side


Entry wound into the chest cavity


Exit wound in the chest cavity


Exit wound on off side


Both spikes


Thoracic mess from frontal hit with 160gr PT. Except the stomach nothing else was disrupted in the abdomen.
[img]http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i474/Sponxx/IMG_7590.jpg[/img]

Congrats on your first two whitetails!!

Used to shoot the 165's out of my 7 rm . To much wasted meat for me I don't use them anymore. They fly good , just don't hold together well for my likes. OMMV

+1

Don't let anybody tell you different.

Damm!! Surprised those deer went so far

The old feller that taught me how to load said "Son, just use Sierra's for everything and use the rest of your time scouting and hunting". It makes sense now.

Love the Sierra 130's for my .270 and the 165 HPBT in .308

I shot a big 10 pt buck that dressed at 200 lbs. right through the heart at 80 yds. quartering away with a 7mm Rem Mag 160 gr Sierra @2900 fps. It died in mid step and fell right there.
I couldn't have been happier. I guess you could scare up a box of 120 gr. Nosler Ballistic Tips if you want to make sure they expand to your liking?
whelennut