Are the 6.5-270, 6.5-06 and 6,5x64 Brenneke just three different names for the same identical cartridge?

BBerg

If I am not mistaken, the 6.5x64 Brenneke is a necked down version of the 9.3x64 case--a beltless, long action magnum case if ever there was one. If I am not mistaken, it practically duplicates the .264 Win Mag's performance.

The 6.5-.270 and 6.5-06 are virtually identical performance wise but there is a small variation in the shoulder/neck dimensions.

War Eagle,

You are mistaken, but only slightly.

The dimensions of the 6.5/.270 and 6.5x64 Brenneke are identical. And further, the only difference between them and a 6.5/06 is that the former has a .050" longer neck. Headspace gauges are the same. (Actually the same as a .30/06.)

I own two rifles so chambered. And I use standard 6.5/06 dies to load for them. The difference in neck length is only a consideration if you want to crimp the bullets... Which I don't...

The reason I chose the .270 case, is because I also own rifles in .25/06. A lot of folks like to neck expand .25/06 cases to 6.5/06. The DOWNSIDE to this is that one may inadvertantly confuse the ammo and try to chamber it in a .25/06. I'm not saying it will work, but there is a possibility that in a sloppily chambered .25/06 it might chamber. If fired, it would definitely wake up the shooter, and may even ruin a perfectly good firearm.

However, if inadvertantly fired in a .270 chambered rifle, it won't hurt a thing, but it likely won't be very accurate. The longer neck will prevent it from being chambered in a .25/06 by mistake.

I always figure if one may err, 'tis much better to err on the side of caution... Not only for myself, but for whom ever may end up with my rifle... (Perhaps even one of my grandsons...)

Others mileage may vary...

GH

It is all very confusing. This is my understanding. The 6.5x64 isn't the 9.3x64 necked down - it is actually a standard diameter case and unrelated (i think it is actually the 7x64 necked down - which is essentially the european 280 Rem). There is a 9.3x64 necked down to 6.5, but it is actually the 6.5x63 Messner. And just to confuse things, the x63 designation normally denotes the 30-06 case. The 6.5x65 RWS is a different case again, and is very close to the 6.5x06. It is also available as a rimmed case.

The Europeans love the 6.5, and there are a lot of 6.5. If i was looking for something similar to the 6.5-06 with factory loadings, i'd be looking at the 6.5x65 RWS.

DHG is right: the 6,5x64 is NOT a necked down 9,3x64 (6,5 Messner) and the 6,5x65RWS and 6,5x64Brenneke are different cartridges, with the former having a longer headspace and a shorter neck, apart from other minor differences.

In fact, time ago I had a 6,5x65R RWS and, not liking its short neck, I swapped it (an interchangeable barrel in my Blaser K95) for a 6,5x57R...

So the question is still there, gentlemen... Are the 6.5x270 and 6.5x06 identical and equal to the 6,5x64 Brenneke?

Thank you for your contributions.

BBerg

I think for all intents and purposes, the 6.5x64 is the same as a 6.5mm-06. The 7x64 is essentially a 7mm-06, but it actually didn't evolve from the 30-06 as i understand it (at least not for copyright purposes!). The case dimensions are here:

http://www.municion.org/6Mm/6_5x64.htm
http://www.municion.org/7x64B/7x64B.htm

Bizarrely, when you look at those dimensions it isn't quite a 6.5-06 nor a 6.5-64. It is closer to a 6.5-06. My Spanish isn't good enough to understand the legend, but looks like it is a new cartridge. My guess is that it was developed to use both 30-06 and 7x64 brass.

If anyone doubts what I have written, Please see Nosler Manual #4. Pg #216. In the preface to the 6.5/06, Writer Charles Benke states that the Eurpeon 6.5x64 Brenneke is: the standardized form of the 6.5/.270

Writer BENKE also wrote it up in Handloader Magazine issue #176(pg: #36). Dimemsions for the 6.5x64 Brenneke are the same as the .270 right down to the 17 deg., 30' shoulder angle, and .473" rim diameter and .471" base diameter.

In Handloader #179 (pg. 28) Writer; Benke gives the baase diameter of the 6.5x65 RWS as being .474" and a shoulder angle of 20 deg. He also states that RWS designed the 6.5x65 RWS to be able to completely clean up a 6.5x57 chamber!

When I built my 1st 6.5x64 Brenneke, I conferred with Mr. Benke and followed his suggestion of having the rifle built by Ray Montgomery of Ray's Gunsmith Shop in Grand Junction, Co. (of which I have no regrets of doing so...)

GH

Grasshopper, maybe you wrote 6.5x65 Brenneke instead of 6.5x64 Brenneke... and that is where the confusion comes from.
BBerg

So, the three of them are identical except for the 6.5-06 having a 0.05 shorter neck, right?

BBerg

GH is correct. The 6.5x64 = 6.5-270. I have a 6.5x64 on a Mark X with a Lothar Walther barrel. I just resize 25-06 brass and bang away.

To check and see if .270 brass will work, resize a case, seat a bullet and try to chamber, it it won't chamber you have a 6.5x63 which is a 6.5-06.

Easy enough.

Pretty much the same cat. There was a brief period when I was exploring the Brenneke. I eventually went with a 240 Weatherby instead.

Then of course there is the 6.5 Vom Hofe just to add more confusion.

I knew it wouldn't be long before someone corrected me.

6.5x284 will surpass either.
6.5 Schuler is a SERIOUS 6.5 !

Yep the Schuler should be a barrel burner..

I have a Steyr ProHunter in 6.5X57 that I got for a song when they changed distributers. Was thinking about the 6.5X65 RWS but can not find a gunsmith willing to rechamber a Steyr.

I shoot a 6.5-284 and I'm not sure that's true. The 6.5-284 and 6.5-06 have nearly identical case capacity and the performance is essentially the same. It would take the 6.5-06AI to better either one.

DF

With case capacity being so similar, I don't believe neither you nor anything that you shoot at will see any difference.

I do not like the way the x284 fits in a short action... it just doesn't feel right to me, and I see no point in using a long action in such a stubby little cartridge, therefore my preference for the 6.5-270.

Also, the 6.5x284 has a reputation for being harder on barrels.

BBerg

Gee! I thought hitting the woods with a 6.5x55 was "exotic."

I agree on long action 6.5-284's. I wouldn't have a SA 6.5-284. It would limit the use of long bullets, seated out where they need to be.

I wonder if the 6.5-284 is actually harder on barrels than the 6.5-06 or similar ctg.? If one doesn't let the barrel get too hot and controls carbon build up, I think those barrels should last most hunters a lifetime. Target shooters, that's another matter. For them, barrels are an expendable commodity.

DF

I was with you War Eagle. The first thing I thought a 6.5X64mm Brenneke would be was a 9.3x64mm Brenneke necked down to 6.5mm. That would be a whole different animal from a 6.5/06.

6,5x64 is an 8x64 necked down, but the 9,3x64 and 8x64 do not come from the same case. The are both 64mm long but the 9,3 being "fatter", resulting in more powder capacity, close to that of any of the 2.5" magnums.
BBerg

6.5x270 == 6.5x64 Brenneke
6.5x'06 is shorter necked , same shoulder

6.5x280AI aka 6.5 BlowHole Express !
( see DogZapper / Eastman ? )

The thing is that 200 fps gain from the 6.5x55 to the 6.5-06 doesn't seem to make much difference in the field IMHO.

Every once in a while, we glean a nugget of true wisdom!

I would think that would be true in most hunting situations. At long range,however, the extra velocity is appreciated.

DF

How about the 6.5-257 Weatherby ? LOL

Wouldn't a 6.5-257 Wby. be pretty close to a .264 Win Mag?

DF

Just to complicate a bit:

Brenneke the man or the company was not involved in the design of this caliber which was an idea of Kepplinger, austrian gun maker. If was made to be a sort of standardised 6,5-270 and the Brenneke name was choosen (with right to do given by Brenneke company)for commercial reasons.
Brenneke Gmbh in Germany don't even produce bullets or cartridges in 6,5 caliber at the moment i write.

MFS hungarian company produce one loading of 6,5x64.

Note that, case dimensions are close to the 270 and different from the real CIP 7x64 or 8x64 dimensions at the head and rim.

In Europe the 6,5x64 is not well known and not chambered as a standard. The 6,5x65 and 6,5x65R are more often found.

The 6,5x63Messner is a french wildcat, today CIP approved, developped on the 9,3x64 case. It's really a magnum with performance very close to 6,5x68 or 264 Winchester with lighter bullets. It is generally loaded with monometal bullets (french or german) and it's effectiveness is proofed on numerous heads of game. Even african plain's game.

For the "little story" i prefer to load the 264, cases are much less expansives.

Dom

Dom, do you know if 6,5-06 is CIP approved?
I want to have a rifle done in the US but I will only be able to import it into Spain if it is a CIP cartridge...
If it is not, I would have it chambered for the 6,5-270 and marked as 6,5x64 Brenneke, hence my asking...
Merci.
BBerg

Hi BBerg,

After looking about CIP approved cartridges from the french proof house documents, the 6,5-06 is not approved.
Normal for a wilcat. Better go the the 6,5-270 aka 6,5-64 Brenneke which is CIP. Or even better for cases availability 6,5x65...

All the discution about neck length, shoulder angle and comparing 6,5-06, 6,5x65, 6,5x64 and 6,5-270 makes me laugh a lot...In the real world of hunting cartridges and handloading they are peas in the pod...

Any animal shoot by one or another cartridge will not come back to life to say the one which is better or worse.

Good choice

Dom

Out of curiosity, Dom, years back I had a K77 kipplauf in 6,5x65R and it would not close on a fully resized brass that had only been fired once and in that same barrel.

I believe the design of that large case with such a short neck had something to do with a dough nut forming in the inside of the junction of the neck and shoulder, which was the origin of the problem.

I had exactly the same problem with a 6x62R Fr�res, also a case with a short neck, but have never experienced anything like that with other longer necked cases I have worked with: 5,6x50R, 6,5x57R, and 7x65R.

I have some hate for cases with that design since then, and even though the much stronger camming action of a bolt action should avoid problems of this kind, therefore my decision of by passing it in favour of the 6,5-270 aka 6,5x64.

On the other hand, I will have the rifle made in America, and the 'smith migh not even have a 6,5x65RWS reamer...

I have noticed a French atelier d'armurerie, http://www.armeca.fr/latelier/index.html , that chambers for the 6,5-06... Can you take a rifle chambered for a wildcat to the official proof house in France?

BBerg

Hi BBerg,

I know well the boss of Armeca. Its job is really first class. He's a long range target shooter, a very good one, who prepare long range rig.
If he build you a rifle it will be very well done. And for sure for safety and insurance reasons the rifle will be proof tested at St Etienne proof house with cartridges of the caliber.

For hunting rig you can also look at my friend shop Dorleac & Dorleac. Use to work a lot with spanish cause he's close to the border (Perpignan is one hour and half from Barcelona). He is a real master in the ultralight mountain rifles (with match grade accuracy) and can build any traditionnal hunting rifle (continental, british or american taste)
Just google Dorlea & Dorleac. He speaks english and spanish too.

regards

Dom

PS: three pictures of D&D work

Caliber 6,5-284 in totaly squared and blueprinted ZB47 receiver, Leica 2,5-10x42



This light mountain rifle feed flawlessly the 6mmNorma BR with 105/107/115grs bullets. Weight scoped loaded less tha,n 3kg..


This one is made with workshop lefftover...! Seven receiver modified, 24inches semi weight barrel in 6XC for 105 to 115 bullets. Weight with the Swaro scope and 3 rounds is 3,370kg a bit less than 7,5lbs

Sure, I know Dorleac...!
I read about his rifles years ago in a very well know book, written by a French hunter, I can't remember his name, about chamois and isard hunting... I explored his operation but finally it was a bit pricey for me and ordered a Rifles Inc. from Lex Webernick instead.
Everything about Dorleac's mountain rifled looked excellent to me, except one small detail, which was the funny ubication of the safety, insider the trigger guard.
Regards,
Alvaro

Sure for handloading 6,5x64 is better than 65 but why do you fully resize them?
Neck only will do without problem for three to five firing (may be more) if you shoot them in the same rifle and if chamber is tight.
I never add problem with other short necked cases too, like 300 Savage or 300Winch mag. May the RWS brass on this cases is a bit thicker and tougher, don't know for sure i'm not close to my bench.
Friend of me loading for 6x62Freres don't have problem with them, too.

Dom

Have you shot 300 Savage or 300 Win Mak. in a K77 Blaser break open single shot?
If you had you would have had to full length resize, I am afraid.
A bolt action, is quite a different thing!
Alvaro

Hi Alvaro,

Most of Dorleac rifles have standard safety but the guy love to experiment different ways...
Here one of the first he made, this one is mine for ten years now,was its own i bought it use, just changed barrel, caliber 7Rem mag. Know by my friends as the "Black Widow"...Had killed a lot.



About your problem, looks like all rifles are not the same as my friend and most guy i know with single shot K95 don't have real problem neck or partial (not the same) sizing only their 6x62R.

But for sure they don't reload their cases often, being hunting rifles only they don't use them target shooting except for some zeroing and control before hunting season.

They handload only because of 6x62R factory loading scarcity. Your right for 300Sav and Win Mag; bolt are different affair than SS...

Have good weekend.
Dom