The recent comparison of the 35 Whelen vs 9.3x62 crossed over into the comparison of the 375 H&H. This got me to thinking of another comparison of the DG double rifle cartridge the Flanged 375. The 9.3x74r stirs the pot of discussion if it is qualified to be used on DG. The 375 Fl is accepted with little fuss as it gets the knowing nod of approval.
The real world difference between the two is basically a wash.
Neither are the H&H that is the most famous but they don't have to be.
Which is my point of all this
Do we give the 9.3 caliber fair treatment?

The 9.3's as good as they are will probably never encroach on the vaunted status of the 375's both H&H and Flanged.

I am slobbering like a drunk to get a hold of a 375 Flanged double, German, Austrian, or British will do.

Gunner

On this board the 9.3 is revered to the point of cult status. I never much cared for either the 62 or the 74, mainly because there are calibers out there more specifically the375 H&H that can do it better, albeit impercetibly so. I think the real difference is in availability and there the 9.3X74 has it all over the 375 Flanged. So the question is how do the two calibers compare in terms of velocity and sectional density? For me if I were to build a double in a light caliber, for a variety of reasons not the least of which is nostalgia, it would be the 375 Flanged. jorge

That's my problem is I compared the two. I like the belted H&H and have used it more in DG than I ever intended to. Due to issues with my neck and shoulders I can't do the heaviest kickers anymore and got rid of my 470 out of concern. While researching other double choices I got down to the 450-400 and the 375 Fl. Then I started comparing the 375Fl and 9.3x74 and truthfully they are not that a great of a gap between the two. Neither are at the belted H&H level but again are close on paper. In the end the Fl gives me little advantage over the 74 I have

I fell in love with double rifles with a nice little Chapuis 9.3x74. It is a nice cartridge but if i were to go double gunning again, and I might, i would jump at another Chapuis (or Searcy) but would love it in the 375 FL. In fact there is a Searcy in the Dundee, Mich. cabelas, in the 375 --even left handed, but at ~ 16 k ( ouch). Ive taken some game withe the 9.3 but it won't quite run with the 375. But that's not damning with faint praise either. On the other hand, both of these would arguably prove more flexible in the Americas than the 450/400 3" or 3.5" NE, which is kind of the next step up.

Theoretically, the Blaser S2s barrels are not soldered and could be regulated for a warmer load in the 375 Fl equaling the H & H but I do not care for it at all as a DG gun because of some of its features including a barrel shroud over extractors only.

Actually, for the hunting I do, a proper bolt gun is far more practical but not even half as much fun to look at.

You would love the 9.3 if Weatherby had made one!
A .375 flanged could be built on a very slim frame. With 24" barrels it would be as snappy to use as 28 gauge SxS in a quail field. It could be a magic wand.

The 375 H&H Flanged is a good caliber for light double, but take it as you want, not a lot of manufacturers produce it on a light receiver.
The 9,3x74R is also excellent one, the famous hunter and poacher Taylor, who was never kind with continental calibers, considerd it (even if he never used one) a good and potent cartidge.

Today if you compare Norma factory loading the 375H&H Flanged is given for 730m/s with 300grs bullet. The 9x3x73R from same company is 710m/s for 285grs. Not enough difference in real world.

But the 9,3x74R can get an advantage. It's commonly available in light double rifle (s&s) with adjustable convergenge. For an handloader it's easy to get 15 to 20m/s more without endangered your rifle (9,3x74R don't develop too much pressure) and you can easply (more or less) adjust your regulation. Merkel 141 is one of this doubles. It is based on 28 gauge caliber but renforced. And imagine the same receiver in it's express drilling form, 2x9,7x74R above and one 20/76 gauge shotgun tube below. All around tool for 90% of game on Earth.

Prices, even high, are less than best 375 H&H Flanged doubles. Cases are easier to get and much lower price. Good bullet are available too including fmj or solid.
Bullet can go to 325grs for a velocity of 680 to 700m/s with new powders. Enough for game up to buffalo.

If you like old caliber with good reputation you surely know the 360n�2. The 9,3x74R is very very close to it.
It could be a deadly Alaskan close range big game combo ammo/rifle.
The only thing against it: does'nt have the "aura" and african smell of the old english one.

Dom

The Verney-Carron boys are building the 375 Flanged in a lovely, trim action. I handled one at DSC this year and it was all I could do not to write a check! It was either the rifle or a safari. I chose the latter!

Hey Jorge, did ya also know the V/C boys are making top lever hammer doubles with stalking safeties to?

Gunner

Just happen to have their current catalog and their US Rep, KEBCO and I talk quite frequently Incidentally, just finished watching a GREAT double rifle movie, Harry Black And The Tiger with Stewart Granger about Tiger hunting in India. Lots of doubles with a few references thrown in for the 375!

Yes, I saw their new Hammer Doubles and went to complete hell, there gorgeous

Gunner

Just what i told you: not the same price, time to delivery, adjustable barrel and so on. I know a bit Verney-Carron and their custom shop...And to .500cal barrels come from Suhl.
Nothing wrong with them for sure!

Was speaking of business rifle, simple, effective, with good ratio price/quality. Easier to get a good 9,3x74R and save money for hunting. Performance are not so far between the two cartridges.

Dom

If Stewart Granger was still alive he would be the perfect ad pitch man for a double rifle manufacturer. You could run the ad in B&W and who could refuse

I am kinda glad I was too busy working and didn't get to DSC this year. I might have made the wrong choice on a double rifle
I still might if I handle one like this

Right on both counts! Man they make some great rifles and VERY strong actions.

My 577 V/C will shoot me loose, long before I do it.

Gunner

Writing frog, which 9.3x74 doubles are adjustable for convergence? The only double rifle I've read of having that adjustment is Blaser's S2. Thanks, and best to you.

edited to say: ok, I see you mentioned the Merkel 141; any others?

In S&S the Merkel 141 and 161 (28 gauge receiver) are followed this year by the 140 and 160 (20gauge receiver). Lots of modern O&U like Merkel B3, new Zoli Focus are also available with this system.

Was made to save time spent regulating doubles to save money first, then it help customer or gunsmith adapt double to different loads.

Dom

I forgot some Verney Carron over under in 30R, 8x57IRS or 9,3x74R

Dom

Have been on the road for a few days.

I have never even fired a .375 Flanged, but see no real reason to get one when so many newer doubles are chambered for the .375 H&H and work well with the belted round.

My own 9.3x74R is a pre-WWII Thieme-Schlegelmilch side-by-side that weighs an ounce over 8 pounds and handles like a nice shotgun. It regulates perfectly with any 270-286 grain bullet and 65.0 grains of H4350, and also shoots 293-grain RWS ammo perfectly as well. Velocitu with the handloads is around 2400 fps, so don't really see any need for a .375 Flanged.

I'm not a purist in most things where practicality trumps it -- my Blaser K1 is chambered in the rimless 30/06 though I comsidered the 7x64R -- but with a double rifle it seems almost a tiny blasphemy to chamber it for a belted cartridge, but..

That 293-gr load is a pretty warm one is it not? Yea, the 9.3x74R is truly a leggy one.

Yeah, the 293 H-Mantel load is listed at just a hair under 2400 fps, about like my 286-grain handload--which is no doubt why it also regulates in my rifle. This is a little less than the .375 Flanged 300-grain load but not enough to matter in the real world.

If I were going to buy a double rifle with more power than the 9.3x74R or .375 Flanged, I'd probably go with the .450/.400 3". In fact I've twice come very close to buying one, and did own a Ruger No. 1 .450/.400 for a while. It's easy to load for, brass and bullets are relatively easy to buy these days, and doesn't kick any more than a .375 H&H. And you've got the real ballistic advantage of a 400-grain, .40-caliber bullet.

I have been thinking 450/400 3" NE or( 400 Jeffrey) for awhile and I found a beaut. I have been dithering over it for a week or so but if you are interested, PM me and I'll give you the lead. Heaven help me what I use it for; a fancy bird gun would at least be gaimfully employed in my little corner.

Thanks for the offer! But I'm not really all that interested anymore, as I can pay for a lot of other stuff (including another safari) for the price of a .450/.400 double.

The first one I almost bought would have been worth it, though. It was a Manton belonging to a friend. It shot great when I worked up some handloads for it, and he said he'd offer it to me if he ever sold it. Instead he sold it for $6000 to somebody else--which was a steal.

The other one I considered was a good British boxlock, but can't remember the maker. It needed a little tightening and the asking price was $14,000. Probably could have gotten it for a little less, which would have been a decent deal, but instead I decided my CZ .416 Rigby kills buffalo just fine.

Hi George,

The RWS loadind datas for the 19g Tug or UNI, today's name of the bullet, is not warm cause it complies to the CIP proof (43900psi).
This load can be used in any good shape 9,3x74R double, combination or single. Recoil can be stout because of lightness and stock shape of old rifles.

The pressure is held low because of the very old break open firearms from the biginning of 20th century. Note, that most of these old ones are surely used in your country than in Europe. Being, for the most part of them, retired from service here.

As modern firearms that shoot this old cartridge are proofed for the new 30R Blaser which use the same type of case to 60000psi (even more)it's easy for the skilled, conscious, intelligent handloader to push the 9,3x74R a bit, like some do with the 9,3x62.
Will never be a magnum but in a single shot can flatten a bit the bullet flight.
With Woodleigh and Norma 320/325grs bullet it's easy to get close to the old british standard 360n�2 around 2200fps in a double without going more to 52/53000psi. Enough for most big game, to and including buffalos.

So as said JB why bother with 375 Flanged and it's more expensive cases, dies and rifle. But if you're a loony....

Dom

Writing frog, thanks for your input. I've been convinced that if I "double up" again it will be for the long, tall 9.3.

Was just looking at the 2012 Nosler catalog, and noticed they offer the .375 Flanged in their Safari Ammunition line, with the 300-grain Partition and Solid at 2400 fps. Maybe gettng ammo and brass is more practical than I thought!

I didn't need to know that.

Neither did I!

Me either
Especially the rifle Jorge refered to

Well, since I have a 9.3x74R double that regulates great with 286's at 2400 or so, I might be able to restrain myself.

Restraint-
definition : lack of ability to create an excuse for need or justification for purchase
Example: The acquisition of the 9.3 WSSSM filled a need for a big bore open site prairie dog gun.

Restraint has been known to be present when looneyrifleolopolis condition makes decision making along rational lines thereby saving oodles of money. This condition is ireversable and often leads to selling off all firearms except a 30/06 with a 4x Bushnel scope

Might lead to vegetarianism

I've found a good formula for restraint (for now...) Safari or new Verney-Carron in 375 Flanged?

What did that VC weigh you saw at DSC

thr 375 Flanged? I think a tad over nine lb but don't hold me to that. Regardless, Ken and Jerome will build it to your specs. I asked for my 450 to weigh 10.5lb and it came in at 10.48. I dind't hold the discrepancy against them

It sounds like they we're allowing for a little African dust for proper balance