JB and others: for brown bear and other DG would you use a semiauto (Sauer 303 or Browning) or a bolt action? Tell me why you choose one before the other? Can a semi get you in trouble because it is a semi with possible feeding problems?
I am interested in a semi beacuse of fast second bang, but don�t want to have problems with a gun if atttacked by DG.
Caliber: 9,3x62

I have experience with:

Sauer 303
HK SLB 2000+
Remington 750

on drive hunts.

I have guiding experience for brown bear with bolts and levers.

I do not have guiding experience for brown bear with a semi auto.

There is a reason.

Ok, think I understand. Guess i forget about semis for this purpose.

Bears, like most any big game animal, are best shot well with the first shot. A bolt gun properly set up is plenty enough. Shoot well.

Caliber on that No. 1?

Not Klik, obviously, but 9,3x74R, IIRC the yarn he spun.

Yarn? Tale? What? (Yeah, 9.3 With a pair of 286s, a Interlock and a PRVI.)

From a guide's perspective:

Why do you need a fast "second bang" ?????
The first bullet is the one that counts, you know ???

Mav

Hi,

I'm no JB and no guide, nor alaskan, never hunted great bears but hunted other dangerous games.
One thing i know a bit it's semi automatic hunting rifles because they are widely used in Europe where i live hunt and travel, even on great bears and big mamals (Russia for exemple). I will not speak of AR based models cause, even if i did use the military versions of them (M16, M4, real AR10 from Armalite/Stoner time), have no experiences of their big bore modern versions.

Even if they are not the best choice for such game hunting most of the semi auto made today are reliable, safe and accurate enough for hunting from 0 to 300m. I used and tested (on the long run, thousand of rounds into them) most of the semi produced these days. Sometime in cold places (minus 16 to 21�C for three days outside), under rain, snow or sleet. I understand you're the hunter not the guide.

If you know how to maintain and take care of that type of rifle they are reliable enough (no army in world use 98 action for first line troops even in deep schhitt...). The best choice to my experience, for beast that can bite back, in a semi it's a model in caliber 9,3x62, 338WinMag or 9,3x64. Who can the most can the least. If you don't like these calibers 30-06 and 300Win Mag are common choice in semi-auto.

The most reliable of these rifles i tested in 9,3x62 are the HK SLB 2000 (light or not) and the Merkel SR1. Basically the same action. Of the two the HK with it's safety, controlled by the thumb, blocking firing pin ang trigger is the best. Look is rather awful but it's the fastest semi auto rifle to shoulder and the easiest to control with this powerful ammo.
Accuracy is more than enough even with it's standard trigger.

Loaded with Sako factory ammo mounting 250grs Barnes (just an exemple, there're other brands) you can face your bears without fear. These semi function with all the 9,3x62 factory made, which is very important, and not an easy realisation (wide weight variations, pressure and quality of cases come in mind). The HK and the Merkel can be easily taken apart for complete cleaning or maintenance and transport.

The Bar 338 is good but clumsy and heavy to carry in bogs, marshes and steep slopes. Contrary to the Merkel and HK (Haenel today) it's difficult to disassemble for cleaning or carrying. The lighter versions in 300Win mag, 30-06 and 9,3x62 could be considered too.
In 9,3x62 i would stay with manufactured cartridges of well known quality. The Bar in this caliber, like most other semi except the HK/Merkel, could be finicky.

The Sauer 303 would be the safest of all with it's separated cocking system but it's the most complicated and i have no experience with the 9,3x62 version. It can be easily taken apart too. It's the most expensive of all.

The 750 in 35 Whelen would be the cheapest but the magazine is not reliable enough and more than that they are difficult to take apart totally for good winter preparation. Even if the half MOA people laugh at them they can out shoot most of the "one game, 10 rounds a year hunters"....

If i was obliged to use semi auto for DG and have only one choice i would go to the HK/Merkel in 9,3x62 with low power scope or an Aimpoint sight or a russian civilian varation of the SVD system in the very much powerful 9,3x64 (not available in France). It's reputation is more than good, powerful enough to the boot and accuracy wise, sure a moa of bear.

About the problem encountered by semi auto in hunting fields most of them (90%)come from bad cleaning or no cleaning at all (chamber the most), the rest shared between dented or crap mag, handling (not hold enough or badly) and ammo or handloading (powder not adapted, cases too long, not sized enough, crimping, and so on). Everithing that can be fixed easily the same as bolt or lever.

Remember that, any time any where, it's the first shot that count so your rifle be single, bolt, lever, pump or semi make this first shot counts. Train with your rifle, use to lear it, nurse in well and it will not let you down. If the schitt it the fan have you and your firearm prepared to face the situation. Good choice and hunt.

Sorry for being long.

Dom

Dom speaks the truth.

The No. 1 reason I do not consider a semi for AK is that in between being camp chef, room service, bartender, facilities manager, water truck, forest ranger, birding advisor, psychologist and guide I feel it safe to say that I will NOT be able to bring up the TLC to keep it running.

Yeah, that would be m main reason for not using a semi-auto on a dangerous game hunt. Alaska is hard on rifles, but Africa can be too, though more often due to dust rather than rain--but have seen moisture screw up rifles in Africa too.

Have taken big game up to elk with semi-autos, but even the best of them do require more maintenance than bolts or doubles(or even levers or pumps) to keep working absolutely reliably.

Africa is not like Alaska, except perhaps for hunting rainforest game such as bongo, but I've seen the rainy season last late and begin early. When combined with a little dust from the dry days in between that can really gum up a rifle.

Alaska is a lot harder on semi-autos, especially anywhere near the seascoasts, which of course is where most brown bears live. But I got rained on considerably when hunting grizzlies in late August and early September of 2009, when the days were 18-20 hours long and any sort of rifle maintenance was secondary to being out there. I did it, but not nearly as much as would have been necessary on a semi-auto to keep it running reliably.

I don't know this.

But I'd expect a 7.62 Nato chambered Battle Rifle, i.e. the HK91, an FAL, or an M-14 type, with a 20 round magazine.

Loaded up with .308 Winchester catridges with Nosler Partition bullets. Would work well against North American Dangerous Game Animals.

If anyone out there who has tried this please comment...

If I were to use a semi-auto to hunt things that hunt back, the only choice would be the good old M1 Garand. Probably loaded a bit stronger than standard military was and would feel pretty comfortable even with all that carry weight. With the 06 I sure wouldn't feel underguned.

The lowly Mini-14 has been used to good effect more than a few times...actually quite a few times in most instances when bears have come close enough to get their ears scratched. Nothing like a rather loose, rugged mechanism under those circumstances.

Fortunately Federal sells both the 223 Rem and the 308 Win loaded with Nosler Partition bullets...

Kliktarik,

Since I've no experience with Alaskan Bears I'll ask you why the choice of a Mini-14?

Hi dear friends,


Not to promote semi auto for such game but, if i had to do with one and had the choice, as i wrote above i would go with easy to find HK/Haenel SLB or Merkel SR1 9,3x62.
Using what i learnt in the army and hunting i know i could count on it. They are at least as reliable as a good M1 Garand, easier to carry, shorter and easier to maintain (gaz system). They can be easily scoped. With 250 or 286grs Sako/Barnes, 286 grs Norma Oryx or handloads with 286 NPT i would'nt get any fear.

In Africa the problem does'nt exist cause semi-auto rifles are not allowed for "civilian tourist hunters".
Semi auto shotgun is another story and i know in former french Africa some guys living and working there (not all professional hunters but foresters, military and police, technicians) who go after leo with Benelli semi loaded buck and slug and who kill every years their share of nasty red buff with hi quality slugs. As ever they know how to hunt and the biotope, they come close and make that first shot count. Other shots are here just in case.
Note they chose semi because it can turn in really safety when schhitt it the fan and some crazy people get amok...it's arrive sometimes!

Dom

Not klik, but i can answer, may be: light, easy to carry, fast to shoulder, accurate enough for close range work, easy to control and totally reliable in most of the worst conditions you can meet any where, be them dust, rain, snow, ice, not the least they are available in total stainless synthetic.
Hope it answers your question.

William Batterman Ruger was a fantastic designer.

Dom

'Cause it was 'the' everyman's rifle out in these parts for many years, consequently it was often what happened to be in the victim's hands at the moment of need - with 55 FMJs generally. It's not that the user might not have preferred the big, bolt, bear gun: the 30-06. But the Ruger Minis can stand a lot of abuse and neglect and still function. Part of that, I'm sure, is due to their rugged, if loosely constructed design. As I suggested in the previous post, having 10 or better rounds available - and using them all or most of them - was not without some good purpose. I'd still take a single well placed 30 or 33 caliber slug over spray-and-pray anything that comes out of a 7-8 pound rifle. I know the first-hand accounts I've heard of about drilling bears with 223 rounds at bayonet distances were told in the spirit of greatfulness and humility that things worked out alright.

I have used Brownings off and on since '69-'70. No failures for me. Cousin outfitted his whole family with BARs, most looked as if they had been towed behind the jeeps, but they functioned well as long as I gave them their annual cleaning. Mine and Cousin's were .30=06, the rest of his tribe used .270. I have replaced broken neoprene recoil buffers and pitted gas pistons on his. Personally, I never considered them difficult to clean or maintain. Triggers normally require some attention.

Dom has it pegged. The magnum versions are heavy, cumbersome, and are limited in mgazine capacity.

Last year, Browning announced a lighter Zenith model with a shorter fluted barrel on a light frame in several calibers: .308, '06, 9.3x62, WSMs and perhaps others. With high visibility sights, I thought the model would be a winner in an under 7# .308. It appears that the importation into the US has ceased. I found a 308 in France, and then it was discontinued. Although I am likely past DG hunting (age/health), I would not shy away from a well maintained and clean 9.3 that had been proven. NOT saying they are better than a bolt gun or double - just that they work if treated properly.

My present battery contains a Gd IV 7 mag (the only 7 mag BAR that I ever shot good groups with) and a Gd III '06. Most of my hunting is now done from a stand, either manufactured or just sitting somewhere watching for game, negating the weight problem on the 7mm. jack

Klikitarik,

I've always figured that the gun for the job is whichever gun you have available when a gun is needed...

"Cause it was 'the' everyman's rifle out in these parts for many years, consequently it was often what happened to be in the victim's hands at the moment of need"

That makes perfect sense to me for your needs in rural Alaska.
I hope that the Mini-14 continues to solve your Bear problems for you.