Dear Fellow Shooters,

Can I just ask for an informed opinion borne out by experience, as to whether it is worth paying the extra for Nosler Ballistic Tips over the Hornady SST?

I noticed on a recent thread the dissection (literally) regarding every facet of the NBT, it's performance and pros and cons, including relative toughness within calibres by differing weight. It was very interesting.

Has a similar body of work been carried out in respect of the Hornady SST by the collective expertise among this online group?

I use the SST mainly in my 270 and 308 because they compare well with the likes of the NBT for accuracy and bullet drop further out. I favour 150g bullets in both but quite like the 130-140 in the 270 Win as well. I wonder do those 3 bullet weights in 277 differ in construction too?

I am not looking for a NBT vs SST discussion per se. I am more interested in the relative merits of the SST generally, and more specifically if there's such variance of construction and end performance as there apparently is with the NBT within calibres (if the ongoing NBT thread is anything to go by). Though there is of course an element of comparison between the two because they appear to fit the same market niche, while in my neck of the woods 50 x 150g NBTs cost 33 dollars while 100 x 150g SSTs costs me only about 45 dollars, sometimes less!

I shoot pigs, deer and goats. I don't often get after deer so I can't afford to have a bullet let me down on the one or two occasions a year I get one in my sights. In my 270 Win I am generally shooting the 150g bullet about 2925fps and the 130g around 3080fps.

I know the theme might have been done before but came up with only sporadic slivers of info with the search engine. Thanks for reading.

- Bob

My limited experience with them has been that they are too explosive within the parameters that I used them.

The .308 caliber 150 grain SST in a .308 Winchester, 2800 fps MV.

Shots were at 20 to 50 yards, and each of 3 deer required multiple shots to bring down. Penetration was almost non-existent with huge holes at the impact area.

I don't doubt that they would be better suited as a long range bullet(200+ yards), as they were very accurate. They also shot very well in my single shot pistol in .308 Winchester, and at a MV at about 2400 fps, would have behaved a little better at close range.

I simply went with another bullet with better integrity for close-in shots, a little heavier and a little bit slower.

I have heard, and you will probably hear also, different stories that are opposite of my experience. Mine is limited, and Hornady may have worked on the problem the same as Nosler has with the Ballistic Tip.

I've had better experience with the SST bullets.....I've used them in .30 cal and .25 cal and 6mm cal and like them for deer only....

They seem to be as accurate as the B-tips and (at least in my own experience) find them to deliver fully acceptable terminal performance.

They've been good to me and have given similar performance to the NBT's. In some rifles the SST's are a bit more accurate IME. The jackets have little to no taper and are thin but the cores are tough. It's common to find the jacket/core seperated but right next to each other inside the victim. Some folks don't like the cannelure. Doesn't bother me. Good bullets. I've met Steve Hornady more than once along with Dave Emery the head ballistician. They're both pretty sharp guys who love making great bullets.

Bob,

I personally feel that SST's are better suited to slower impact velocities along with most standard cup and core bullets. My opinion would be to run NBT or Accubond on game and save the SST'S for rocks and paper. You will find many varied opinions on this subject, but the construction of the Nosler bullets is far superior in my opinion.

Good luck with your choice and good hunting!

I've only killed two deer with SST's but both got dead PDQ. Both were with 95 gr. 6mm's out of my .243. The first was a straight on shot into the brisket of a big old doe {140 lbs}from 20 yds.. The bullet demolished her heart, pulverized the lungs, blew a silver dollar sized hole through her liver and was lost in the paunch. At the shot she reared up, spun 90 degree's to her left and galloped 30 yds. to her death. The second was a 2.5 yr old. six point buck. The shot was broadside at 30 yds.. He dropped at the shot so fast he bounced when he hit the ground. His lungs were pulped to purple jelly. The jacket was found juist under the offside hide while the core left a nickel sized exit.

I have had good performance on deer with 30 caliber 180gr SSTs loaded about 2% under maximum in the 30-06.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jswXZ2BG638&feature=plcp

150g .277 sst shot into gel with embeded deer pelvis. Imapct velocity of 2,900 fps. 65% weight retention 24 inches of penetration.

This may be heresy, but I've found the regular old Hornady spirepoints to be effective in every caliber from .243 to .308. And, at the distances that most game is shot, the improved BC of the plastic tipped bullets gives no significant advantage. An added benefit is that you can shoot more for less money. As always, YMMV.

+1

I'd say the original IL's are perhaps a better all around bullet for 'near and far'

My friend and I shot a fair number of deer here in NC with the 150 grain SST from our .308's. Our deer are on the small side, does average 100 lbs or so. It killed very well, never lost a deer. But I never recovered a single one that had not separated and fragmented - no matter what range the deer was shot.

I shot a couple deer with the .30 cal 165 SST out of a .30-06 at around 2900 fps. I don't think it penetrates as well as a NBT, based on a small deer I shot quartering away from me.

SST's seem softer than NBT's on game to me.

I'd pick a standard Hornady interlcok if you have that option. They are cheaper and tougher than the SST, and hold together well.

Other way round for me; I found the SST to be a much tougher bullet than the Nosler BT. I have taken a bunch of large whitetails and a couple bears with the 154 and 139-grainers in a .280 Remington.
Still, for deer and black bear hunting, either will do fine.

It's a great country where we can use what works for each of us. I'm sticking with the SST from a .270 and .308, just plain kills deer effectively for me. Even killed a buck with the 155 AMAX which is not supposed to happen , tipped over after a couple steps. I've always thought the SST was not constructed as heavily as the NBT, but get better groups from the SST's and they work.

Shoot heavy for caliber in the SST and you will be very happy. Massive internal damage.

I shoot the 154g SST in the 7 Mag on deer. The bullet demands a hard jam in the lands for best accuracy, and the deer just pile up. I shot one buck two years ago that jumped what looked like 10' straight up when the bullet hit him(looked like a bottle rocket). It was a 325 yd shot while he was eating apples in an orchard.

I've used them both and while the 150 grain version in either persuasion wouldn't be my first choice I'd not turn my hand over for the difference between the NBT and SST for any type of deer in the 270 Winchester. It's akin to choosing between Charmin or Cottonelle--there may be a difference between them, but I'm not getting off the pot to grab the one if the other is readily available............

I read your post on this site and wanted to answer you personally.

I have shot deer with the 130's in the 270 with 60g of H4831, and it simply devistated the entire gut sack of the deer. The shot was slightly behind the front shoulder, and the insides of the deer looked like it had been shot with a 300 Winchester with a 150g bullet. Penetration from side to side did not happen, but the deer are always laying right there in their tracks.

The 150g SST would be more than enough bullet to give complete penetration, no kidding.

I have also shot the 150g in the 308 with similar experience.

I currently shoot the 7mm 154g SST and it is awesome to say the least, muzzle velocity is 3150 fps.

For me, the SST is much more explosive than the ballistic tip, and I like that factor. The Nosler 130g Ballistic tip is a very tough bullet, and may be too tough for my needs.

Your choice of the 150g SST is a fantastic one for the 270. I have found that the gun will have a specific seating depth that it likes with this bullet. In the 308 and the 150g and in the 7 mag, like the bullet touching the lands. In the 270, the bullet liked a 0.040 jump(bullet seated off the lands).

I consider the 270 nosler 150g Ballistic tip an elk bullet. ON one large 240 lb buck shot at 35 yards facing me, the bullet broke the right front shoulder, traveled the length of the body, broke a rear leg just out of the joint, and exited. That kind of bullet is too tough for my needs.

The light for caliber SST's(130g in the 270 and 139 in the 7mm may explode on a shoulder). Thus, I go for heavy for caliber in the SST.

I have had really fantastic luck with the regular Hornady 130g Spire point flat base which has the interlock and acts like a partition. I killed a bunch of cow elk that weigh in the neighborhood of 450 lbs and up with this bullet.

Rifles are picky in what they will shoot well. H4831 has always been a winner with the 270. Recently I tried a powder called Mag Pro, that simply added 150 fps to the 270 with only a slight amount of loss of accuracy. I do not know if you can get Mag Pro down under.

Good luck and I hope that this information may help you.

You did not mention Sierra Bullets, they are fantastic, none of them bad.

Keith

Killed a lot more critters with ballistic tips, but killed a few pigs last year with 130/sst and penetration was through and through and dropped straight down. This was with the Superformance factory load and close range. I saw a recovered SST on a hunt I was in WY a few years ago - also 270/130 SST from a front quartering shot on big mule deer and it could have been from a magazine add. In any case, I think the SST is fine choice for deer sized game, and particularly in 270 sports higher advertised BC than Nosler BT.

Lou

Thanks to all who to this point have helped me, and particular you Keith for taking the trouble with your detailed response.

The general consensus - or near to it - would seem that the SST is a good long range bullet with an explosive expansion habit. As you'd expect, the heavier for calibre bullets hold together and penetrate more.

My relatively limited experience with them consists of about 50 wild pigs, half a dozen goats, one deer and quite a few other feral pest animals culled. Only the bigger of the pigs however provided any real sort of test for the bullet. The one deer was probably about 70 odd kilos, shot side on about 80 yards away.

On the pigs they were nearly all shot with the 150g out of the 270, in the last 18 months. I cannot fault the performance thus far. Of the around 50 animals I speak of, at least 35 were instant, one shot kills where the pig didn't take a step. Probably 25 of the 50 were shot on the run, such is the nature of "walking them up" from thick scrub or hitting multiple targets when you get onto a mob in the areas I hunt. Some of the pigs were in the 90 kilo plus range, with the majority sub-60 kg. I generally won't shoot at juvenile animals.

Keith your post was very helpful and encouraging that the heavier SSTs at least should not let me down if I do my bit on a deer hunt, which I only get one or two chances a year at.

I have also found interesting the above dissertations regarding the standard Interlock. As I seem to be able to duplicate my SST loads and points of impact with the IL it appears to be a good thing.

On the subject of the 270 Win specifically, it seems the 140g SST finds little favour in this country. It seems to be 130 or 150 with no interest in anything in between. Is that the case over there? I guess it isn't otherwise they would stop making them now I think about it.

There appears a preference by shooters here for the Ballistic Tip. I suspect a large measure of this is due to very good marketing, though I don't doubt their effectiveness. I do bristle at paying 65 cents a shot however when for about 85 cents I can get a bonded bullet in the form of the Interbond, though I haven't used them.


I really appreciate the info. As you guys know there's just so many bullets out there in 277 and 308 that the average bloke has not the time or money to even range test them all let alone field test them, unless you happen to be lucky enough to be paid to do it, or win the lotto! Maybe when I retire I might become an amateur "gun writer" like some of those that frequent this place.

Not that I am accusing anyone on here of being amateur!

Popularity has zero effect upon effectiveness. If I'm using a 270 Winchester I'm almost certainly using a 140 grain bullet of some sort--the 130 TSX being an exception. There's simply not much that doesn't work in the 270 concerning deer sized game, but the 140s work much better IME......

Big +1.

I have found the 165 gr SST to be more frangible than the NBT of same weight. They're very nice for bang-flops.

The 130SST is the most accurate bullet I've found for my 270 Weatherby. It performs wonderfully on Whitetail. I have never shot a hog with one, but would, without hesitation. Fact is, deer and hogs are thin skinned and not hard to kill. In my opinion, they do not require bonded or monolithic bullets.

FWIW, I shot a nice 8 point from 115yds, just behind the shoulder. The deer ran appx 20 yards and piled up. The bullet was started at a little over 3400fps and completely passed through, leaving a half dollar sized exit. Insides of the deer were liquid. Great bullet and wouldn't hesitate to use it for your intended purpose.

I recently did the wet newspaper test on a number of 270 bullets. The only SST I had to test was the 150g SST. The only NBT I had was the 130. So I couldn't do an apples to apples.

But I did have a 130g Interlock and a 130g Hot Cor. The retained weight was much the same for all three 130 grainers around 60g with an impact speed around 3060 fps.

The NBT expanded the most and penetrated the least. The IL penetrated the most, and expansion was not far behind the NBT. The Hotcor penetrated about halfway between the two but probably expanded the least, but there wasn't much in it. It did lose a few % more grains of retained weight.

Yeah I know, not very conclusive. But it was a fun experiment.

FWIW the 150g SST retained 120g and penetrated just a fraction more than the 130g Interlock. A 160g Partition in the same test retained 130g and out penetrated the SST by about 20%, though didn't quite expand to be quite as big as the SST.

Would you guys consider an SST to be more or less frangible than a core-lokt.....particularly 150 grain 30 caliber?

I like the sst bullets. I use the 162gr 7mm version.

I always hear people saying that the normal IL is a tougher bullet. Well here is a picture of a 7mm 154gr IL, 175gr IL and 162gr sst. Tell me which is which based on the picture below.

If I were to take a punt it would be that the 175 is the middle one with the thicker jacket.......?

I've used the SST with fine results on deer with behind the shoulder shots, but to be honest prefer the old Interlock for less than perfect angles. I've shot some pretty big bucks with the old bullet, 220 lbs. plus field dressed, clear through both front shoulders. In my experience it's a tougher bullet and cheap to boot. You'd have to have an awful long shot to notice much difference in trajectory IMO. This shooting was all done with a 270 with 130 grainers and a case full of H4831.

I found the SST a little more destructive than I care for. Tried the 139s 6.5s out of my swedes a few years ago. One buck shot at 284 yards had an entrance wound you could stick your head in. The bullet struck the ribs, quartered through the the off shoulder and was recovered under the skin. The front 25 to 30% blew off, and left a solid shank. They shot well, and killed well, but made a gory mess of every deer I shot.

This is a very good post.

The bullets in the picture, from left to right are: 175 interlock, 162 sst, 154 interlock.

The sst had a THICKER jacket than the interlock.

The 140 gr. SST is my favorite 6.5-284 bullet and I'm pushing them at 2,950 fps. It's as accurate or slightly more so than 140 VLD's and performs well on Pronghorns, Whitetails and hogs.

The NBT's and SST's are both fairly friable bullets and you'll see stories about one over the other.

In my .300 Win Mag, I'm using 180 gr. NBT's at 3,050 fps. They too are accurate and can be interchanged with the NAB's, as both have the same B.C.'s and print close to the same groups and POI's.

I've head shot a number of hogs with both rounds. The .300 WM 180 gr. NBT's leave an explosive entrance wound, not too unlike a Claymore mine. The 140 gr. SST is in and out with reasonable entrance and exit wounds. I've been told that hog heads are not good measures of bullet performance.

Now, that's a brief profile of two different bullets of different caliber at different speeds. I think a lot of our bullet performance info is based on too few examples, although these results do seem repeatable, based on a fair number of similar results.

DF

I tried to like the SST in a couple of calibers..... but alas, none could supplant the incumbent NBT. If I'm reaching for a Hornady..... I'm reaching for an Amax....

I've only used SST's on one deer, but have used NBT's on quite a few deer, all in .284 caliber rifles. The NBT's I used for deer were in a 7mm-08 on muley does. They may have gone 10-20 yards before falling over dead, and I never needed a blood trail as it was the wide open of MT. Fast forward 7 years, and I used SST's from my .280 Rem last year on a whitetail in AR, that was hung in a barb wire fence. When the SST hit her, she got out of the fence quickly, and never acted like she was hit. I figured I missed her, especially after not finding any blood. Following the trail back to the truck, I found her about 55 yards from where she was shot in the fence at, and only one very small entrance hole behind the shoulder. It did the trick, so I can't complain, as dead is dead. I am living in AK now chasing caribou and moose, so I am moving on Barnes TTSX bullets next season.

I find it very interesting that nobody commented on the fact that the 162 sst jacket is significantly thicker than the 154/175 interlock. Especially when people continue to say that the IL is tougher.

I was a little surprised at that myself, only because I thought they would be identical rather than one thicker than the other. I must admit when I saw the photo I assumed the big IL might have been the thicker one.

I have used a few different weight ILs in a few cals. Same with the SST. I actually think the SST holds together just as well, and penetrates just as far. Game has been mainly pigs over the years.

I have found the IL maybe just a fraction more accurate, while obviously the SST would hold onto it's speed a bit longer.

Probably because jacket thickness is just one aspect that will determine bullet characteristics.

Thats correct--you have to factor in jacket and core hardness and the effect of the tip in initiating expansion. The thicker jacket only has relevance if all other factors are identical.

I know it's dangerous to assume, but seeing Hornady like everyone else would look to keep costs down, wouldn't it be reasonable to assume that the jacket and core for both the IL and the SST would be made from identical material?

Maybe that's right or wrong. But if it's right then the physical construction is the difference ie different shape and the plastic tip, and in the case of the ones pictured above, a thicker jacket on the SST.

Having been to the Hornady plant several times I can say yes they probably do use the same core/jacket material for each but the big variable here is the plastic tip. This probably creates a more violent initial upset. A cross sectioned bullet along it's long axis would tell you more than simply comparing jacket thickness. The void around the plastic tip, thickness of jacket in the heel etc. would all tell you more than just looking at the thickness of the jacket.

I REALLY wish I could get a read on this bullet. My -06 shoots the 180 Hornady SST Custom and SF factory loads very well. I figure depending which load I'm shooting they are going 2600-2800 from my 22 inch barrel. Given all the bad press they get on this board and the fact my max number of elk per year is 1, I don't take the chance. On the flip side, Horn SPIL 180s get wholehearted recommendations at the same speeds.

Expat

Two friends went to Africa with Weatherby 7 STW's loaded with the 162g SST at 3150. Two eland, two kudu, all the plains game dropped in their tracks with one shot each...PH wrote an article about it he was so impressed.

Heavy for caliber on the SST and I would think that you are good to go.

You could some wet paper testing/milk jug terminal testing to see how the 180 SST and 180 IL perform compared to each other. If the SST holds up well.. then you can move on to on game performance. If it comes apart.. well find some partitions.

That may be the way to go. Without proving or disproving their performance, I've moved on to GMXs, E-Tips, TTSXs and MRXs to gain a margin of saftey in performance. Or maybe I should say a perceived margin of safety in performance. At the speeds I'm launching the monos (180s are what my rifle likes), lack of expansion could be as big an issue as too much. Unfortunately my rifle doesn't like the factory partition loads. I need to get my press set up.

Expat

BCSteve did a large 6.5 cal bullet test and posted the results on canadiangunnutz. He posted them here as well but the pictures no longer seem to work.

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/1481504/1

Results for the 140gr IL and 140gr sst are as follows:

Hornady 140gr SP IL
Average Penetration (inches): 13.75
Average Weight Retained (grain): 78.7
Average Weight Retained (%): 56
Average Expansion (inches): 0.524



Hornady 140gr SST
Average Penetration (inches): 13.25
Average Weight Retained (grain): 95.5
Average Weight Retained (%): 68
Average Expansion (inches): 0.695

SST retained more weight and expanded to a larger diameter which resulted in .5" less penetration. These are the averages of multiple bullets fired into wet newspaper.

FWIW

Expat,

Don't forget the Layne Simpson article in the Oct., 2011, issue of Petersen's Hunting, where the summary of South Carolina outfitter, Hayward Simmons' 20 yr. data on 493 deer kills was reviewed.

Bottom line, whitetails hit with "hard" bullets, like the ones you're going to, traveled an average of 43.5 yds. vs. 26.9 yds. when hit with cup and core, soft bullet. Caliber didn't seem to make as much difference, although in this data, the .25's had the best profile. Even with such a large number of kills, the more subtle the differences, the larger the cohart (sample number) needed to establish statistical significance. So, I wouldn't get on the .25 cal band wagon, just from these data. The spread between hard and soft bullets, however, deserves some attention, as those differences aren't that subtle. We're looking at traveling roughly twice as far with hard, or half as far with soft, C&C bullets.

IMHO,

DF

Good stuff. Many thanks. I only use the 180 monos when I'm hunting elk. For deer I use softer 150s-165s (ILs, IBs, NBTs, etc) for deer.

Expat

The odd SST that I have recovered from both game and newspaper certainly did look a bit mangled like that one Steve. I did find for the most part though they still retained a good bit of weight, between 60 and 80% depending on what it hit and how fast.

I would love to see some sectioned SST photos like there was of the NBT on that excellent other thread where the guys really pulled the NBT apart in quite forensic fashion.

7mm 154gr IL on left and 7mm 162gr sst on right.




7mm 175gr IL, 162gr sst, 154gr IL

Thanks mate. Looks like the SST is thinner at the front, and thicker toward the rear, with the "lock" further forward.

And in my humble, semi informed opinion, all that looks like a commonsense evolution of what was a good bullet to start with.

I have shot many deer with 30 cal sst, one deer with 6.5 sst, and an elk with a 7mm sst. All I can say is..... NOT AN ELK BULLET, nor does Hornady claim them to be. But it knocks the heck out of deer in my opinion. Only bad thing is, if you shoot a shoulder, it will turn it to jello. Big exit hole.