What shot size do you like for grouse?

I read an article by a so-called "expert" with something like 4 centuries of experience that says 7-1/2 is a crippler. This guy preferred 7. I don't know about that. I've killed an aweful lot of game with 7-1/2. I don't load shotshells any more and 7 shot is hard to find in commercial shells. I just got a new 20 ga CZ Ringneck straight grip (with nice wood) and would like to shoot the open chokes and the smallest shot that works well. Still trying to find out what is so bad about 7-1/2.

What do y'all like?

My favorite is Number 8 Hard Magnum Shot for Ruffs. In all gauges. They aren't all that hard to kill and 8 is about as good as it gets in Grouse Cover. These Ruffs and Quail were killed with Copper Plated 8 shot in my Bernadelli Premier Game Cock 12 ga with 1&1/8 load.

I much prefer 6s over 7.5s, but, I hunt Ruffed Grouse, where the larger and quite "tough" Blue Grouse, is also found. I have seen Grouse wounded with 7.5s in the late season and I used to really prefer a Canadian shell, the old paper "Canucks" with a lead No. 5 shot....seemed to drop the birds a bit better and left fewer pellets in the meat to dig out.

I have shot Grouse, with .410s, many 20 gauge and several 12 ga. guns, my best "meatmaker" is a Miroku-Browning Mod. 7500 combo gun in .308Win.-12-23/4 that has Invectors and the finest ejector for a rimless case I have ever seen in any combo gun, MUCH superior to any Euro. guns of this type I have seen.

It, is a killing machine with 1-11/8 oz. of 6s and I usually take it and a CRF .338WM. here in BC for serious meat hunting, as our big game and Grouse seasons overlap.

I too much prefer #6 to #7.5.

As Kutenay says, drops them better and less shot in the tasty bits.

For my area, my 16ga NID is THE perfect grouse hammer.

I used 7 1/2 and killed a truckload of pheasants over a Brittany. I used the same load on the few grouse I killed and found no difference in effectiveness. I was using a 12 gauge though on the grouse...

Early season with leaf-on conditions...#6. Leaves gone... #7 1/2.

Give me my old 101/20 and a Federal 3" load of 7.5's and and good hound and leave me be. If I don't come home with birds the hound will be pissed and it won't be cause he didn't do his job and or cause the 7.5's didn't do theirs. It'd all be on me...grin

Dober

I'm partial to 7.5's

7 1/2s or 8's work just fine. Why complicate things.....

Hunting in the U.P. for most of 40 years, I`ve settle on 8`s early season, mostly because you run into both Woodcock and Grouse. Late season, with leaves down,I load 6`s. Shots at grouse tend to be longer, depending on the day, and ofcourse through brush. I load all my own, shot in the 101, fixed I.C. and Mod.

I use the cheapest 2-3/4" low brass #6 shotshells I can find. I have tried 7-1/2 and even 8, but I find that the 6 shot gives better kills at longer ranges. (12 guage)

And what's worse is that Kutenay and I agree on it, which makes 2 things out of 200,000. It MUST be Christmas.

This is kind of like the 30-06 vs 270 discussion. I've had good luck with 7.5's for grouse, quail, chukar, and close range pheasant. However, for pheasant I prefer 5's. I've seen too many pheasant drop a leg or come down with a broken wing and run off. Usually, a good dog will come up with the bird anyway but sometimes, especially if they need to cross water for the retrieve, they will lose a bird.

I'm thinking of simplifying my life and just using two shot sizes, 8's for targets and 6's for birds (not counting waterfowl or turkeys). I just need to use up the 125 pounds of 7's under my loading bench.

I have hunted ruffed grouse since 1957. I use #8's 99.9%of the time. I sometimes in the late season after woodcock has closed switch over to 7-1/2's but I have never seen any difference between the two shot sizes on ruffed grouse. I have over the years killed a some with #9's and also #6's but my main and preferred shot size has always been #8's.

7 1/2 shot

I grew up hunting the buggers - 6 can leave gaps in your pattern if you use a modified or more open choke, 8's won't take a bird down with only a couple of hits.

7 1/2 seem to be the best

#7 1/2 hard shot, especially expensive factory trap loads, work great.

If going cheapo, then #6.

I've always thought that 7's would be the perfect shot size, mostly because I shoot a lot of squirrels while grouse hunting and they are tough little buggers. I like 7 1/2's for grouse and 6's for squirrels.
Never had much use for #8, don't know why, just never used it.
Good luck hunting ol ruff!

I use 6s for just about everything except Turkeys & waterfowl.

Respects,
Richard

Yeah, it depends on what other birds you might run into when hunting ruffed grouse. I've hunted them here in Montana where you can also run into blue grouse, and in the Midwest where woodcock are also around at the right time of year.

I know one Midwestern hunters whose hunted 40+ years who prefer 9's out of a 28-gauge, and a Montana hunter who shoots everything with 4's, no matter the bird.

Mostly these "what shot size" threads prove that a shotgun really deserves it's nickname "scattergun" and a wide range of birdshot will work for a lot of different birds.

I always ended up using 6s the most because I often ended up shooting squirrels, rabbits, and grouse all in the same day. If only after grouse I liked 71/2s, but if only after squirrels I preferred 5s. I do know from experience that nickel plated 5s don't do a ruffed grouse any good at all, kind of like mallards and BBB steel.

Hunt them over a pointing dog and most shots are pretty close. Hunt them over a flushing dog and you will see the benefits of a larger shot size. In a mixed bag area such as where we hunt interior blue grouse and willows and sharptails in adjoining habitats I don't hesitate to jump right to 4's or 5's as some of these birds get up at 30 yards and are further when you get on them.

No matter what the bird, I tend to use smaller shot size earlier in the season and move to heavier shot by the 3rd weekend. They flush longer and the birds feathers are heavier as well thicker layers of fat for the pellets to penetrate. Works for me ,you do her anyway you like.Best of luck to your success. Magnum Man

7.5 in the lower barrel and 6 in the upper.

A grouse won't know the difference between 7 1/2 shot, 8, 6 or any othe size for that matter. I will use 7 1/2 most often in a shotgun, but a 357 will work and so will a bow...

How can you obsess about that?

I like 7s for ruffed grouse and quail. They seem to shock the bird better and nail them to the ground. A moderate #6 load is also one of my favorites.

JB,

I like #4 shot for about anything. There might be less shot density, but one pellet into the body about anywhere will kill the bird and make far less holes full of feathers.

7 1/2`s

you could actually put 6, 7.5 or 8's in your shotgun and a grouse wouldn't know the difference if you shoot straight

7 1/2's or 6's depending on what choke I am using.

Deerslayers are pretty close to Improved Cylinder and seem to work best with 7 1/2's.

I tend to use 6's with modified and full choked guns.

I used 6's with a full choke on one outing this year and shot a hen turkey with that load as well.

My old 16 gauge Wingmasters from the early 1950's like either 7 1/2 or 6's.

I'm with these two guys, #6's, 2 3/4 high brass though. Ruffies, Blues and Spruce all live close together where I hunt.
On a combo moose or elk/grouse hunt, my 35 Whelen in 250gr is pretty definitive as well, just don't shoot to low if you get my drift.

I use 2 3/4" 1 1/8 oz of #5's in my single shot 12 gauge and 3/4 oz of #6's in 28 gauge for grouse but would have bought #5 if they had been for sale locally. The bigger shot size often goes through the bird and when it doesn't it is easier to find than the smaller shot. BTW troufly, I shot one once with a 180 gr Speer Mag Tip from a 308 Norma Mag, the head dissapeared and ended up stripping all the feathers of the neck, it was a nice clean kill

6's out of either a 20 or 12 gauge. Used 7 1/2's for 20+ years, but found 6's to be more effective and more meat friendly.

I'm almost out of the last 'ole box of 20ga. Federal Premium, copper plated 6's. I don't know if they even offer them anymore. I bet that I haven't packed a 12ga. for ruffed grouse in 15+ years and I really don't think that it has cost me any grouse over using the 12ga.

As can be seen here, it often depends what other species you may encounter. I hunt ruffed grouse and woodcock far more than I big game hunt.

Now if you are doing it right you will be hunting with a SxS, well at least try it anyway. Burton Spiller and Foster figured this game out a long time ago.

I shoot 8's in both barrels for the first 3 weeks. Woodcock are small and need pattern denisty. I will transiition to 8's right 7.5's left and finally end up hunting 7.5's after the second week of November. I like hard shot. I hunt Federal papers at 1200 for 8's and hunt Remington STS for 7.5's as they are green and easy to tell apart from the 8's.

Could I hunt with 7.5's or 8's all season long? No problem at all.

Well I lean toward 6's for 90% of my bird shooting, I go heavier late 4's or 5's in winter. I think it more how your gun patterns than anything else. I am by far not expert on the matter. All I know if that modern shotguns and shell pattern way tighter than they did when I start hunting in the 1960's. I shoot a Vinci and well, I admit that if I don't let a bird fly out a bit, they tend to turn into burger. I come to belief that the old rules about chokes and shot size really don't apply to the short of guns and the material the shot is made out of. The pattern board is your friend more so now than it was in the past. My gun needed some stock mods so the shot would go were I looked, I was shooting low and to the right some. It was fine just wearing a shirt, Cloths that I usually wear made enough of a difference to cause me to miss birds. Needed a shorter stock, and they shimmed it a little and I was back on, I even shoot better in just a shirt too. this stuff is Voodoo. When I comes to shotguns, its a world of its own.

where i hunt grouse if you let them fly anywhere you won't kill one or even see it. If you get a glimpse of the bird when he flushes, you shoot if you want a Ruff for supper. There is no letting them get out there. You shoot and then listen for them to hit the ground.

I prefer 7 1/2s to 6s for Ruff Grouse or Chuckar.

I developed this opinion when Oregon Chuckar was in its heyday and we'd each shoot 15-20 in a long week-end. I also use high quality, heavy Trap loads.

Another good thing about the smaller shot size ---- They're easier on your teeth.

I use #6 for everything, but only because I do so little shotgunning that I don't want to stock different shotshells for different things.

I run Remington 2 3/4", 1 1/8oz of #8 shot nitro gold sporting clay loads most of the time. In the late season I switch over to #6 shot because buy that time I am mostly hunting rabbits with grouse as a bonus.

I like 6's or reloaded 7's..also have killed lots with #5's...

troutfly,

Would love to hear the ballistic difference between low- and high-brass shells.

Not that I obsess about this, but I load fast (international trap) loads of 7's for ruffed, sharptails and huns, i.e. 7/8ths at over 1400 fps. For Chukar and blue grouse, 1 1/8th of sixes (1 oz in the 20), fast-ish. Sage grouse and pheasants get 1 3/8th's of 5's (except the third shot, which is a buffered load of 1 1/2 of 4's.

The fast 7's do bring home more birds than standard 7.5's, it appears to me.

BTW troufly, I shot one once with a 180 gr Speer Mag Tip from a 308 Norma Mag, the head dissapeared and ended up stripping all the feathers of the neck, it was a nice clean kill [/quote]

Pretty much the way it should be. Too low and all you get is a cloud of feathers, don't ask.... Not a good way to put dinner on the campfire.

MD: Only reason I use the high brass shells because that is mostly what is avail locally. Pretty limited selection of stores that sell ammunition in Med Hat.

I went and checked what loads I have here, as I suspected, the only low brass I have is partial box of 7 1/2's I have left from one of those 100 round bargain packages that Waly World sells.
Everything else from several nontox waterfowl loads to lead in 4 and 6 is high brass, all purchased locally. Such is life.

Winchester Super Pheasant, 1 ounce of copper 6, are great stuff in the 20 gauge.

#8 shot for grouse. You just don't need anymore. Heck I occassionally use no. 8's to take pheasants. I migth add that I don't like to use any choke at all and my shots are within 30 yards.

7 1/2 for before the leaves fall.

After the leaves fall I run 7 1/2s.

William Harden Foster-or maybe it was Burton Spiller, can't remember exactly-had a theory on patterning that he wrote many years ago.
At least one shot in every square inch of pattern and shot size becomes relatively unimportant on Ruffed Grouse. They all work. You will either kill them with large shot penetration or knock them silly dead with cumulative ft/lbs and smaller shot.

Isn't more brass, more better? LOL

Battue, you are correct it was Foster who suggested the pellet per square inch pattern.

He referenced a study of hunting notes which indicated that the average New England grouse was shot at 21 yards. He advocated a pattern that met the inch per pellet spread at 25 yards in the first barrel. He also figured that by the time you shot at a bird and could recover to shoot again after a miss it would put the average bird at 35 yards. So therefore the second barrel should be patterned for a pellet per square inch at 35 yards.

You can't talk about shot size without talking about choke. I shoot a 7.5lb Parker 12 bored .000 and .015 which shoots to Fosters specs perfectly and it kills the best of any shotgun I've ever used for grouse and woodcock.

You don't need a 12 for grouse, but after almost a lifetime of hunting a 20 Spiller spoke of having a light 12 built. I never could find out if he ever did.

Would be interesting to know if he switched to a light 12. Problem I've found with a light 12 is we still tend to go with the same FPS shell as we use in a heavy 12 and then recoil knocks me out of the gun for a followup. Not always a problem with those who have some extra bulk. Myself being a little guy it is. Remembering pics of Spiller, it seemed he had some heft to his upper body in his later years. Although I could be wrong on that.


Sitting here waiting for the guys to wrap up the new furnace install or I would be out hunting them today. Snow on the ground, no wind and quiet. Should be a good one.

Thanks for all the posts. I hunt with a group of other troll friends in da UP every October. The last couple of years, ever since I sold my 16 ga Sterlingworth, my hit percentage has plumeted. Last year I tried #6 shot in a short-barreled 12 ga SxS choked IC and M and the safest place in the woods was in front of me.

I really need to get out the patterning board and do some work. I bought this pretty little 20 ga CZ straight grip which doesn't throw as heavy of a charge as the 12 ga, so was thinking I probably should drop down a notch in shot size to keep the patterns dense. Most places we hunt you can't even see 20 yards, if you see the grouse at all. They seem to flush wider than in years past. I'm definitely not as quick on the gun as I used to be. There are always timberdoodles in the woods when we go up in October, so that is another impetus for smaller shot. I bought a box of AA 7/8oz 7-1/2 shot to try on bunnies this winter, but bunnies are easy to kill and seem to roll over dead if you just stare at them hard enough.

Hence the axiom: NEVER sell a shotgun that fits you.

In your shoes, I would buy a gun I like, have it bent to fit me by a really good stockmaker, and load it with #8 low recoil target loads. With good boots and a retriever, you're ready.

spj, I remember an article that Spiller wrote about building his perfect grouse gun..it was the 12 ga. you spoke about..as I remember he wanted it bored cylinder and full..I may still have that article somewhere..Later, I believe it was Tap Tapply received Spillers 20 ga. Parker..it was kind of you carry my gun for a while an I will carry yours..Tap had a 20ga. single barrel..Anyway, Spiller just told him to hang on to the Parker for a while, or something like that, and the kid got to keep Spillers last shotgun..

Not always, haven't you heard about it being "Cold enough to freeze the balls off the brass monkey" I doubt the brass monkey will agree with ya!

Big Redhead,

I would second the suggestion that you shouldn't have sold the 16-gauge Fox.

The "secret" of any shooting is hitting--and it's especially true of shotgunning.

The shotguns I've kept over the years are those I can hit with consistently--no matter the gauge or gun. The choke is less important, and the shot size even less important.

That brought a smile and a blush.

I've been using my old Savage 220 16ga single shot most of this season and have yet to miss a quail with it. I'm actually doing better with the one shot than with some "pedigree" doubles.

Amazing, ain't it?

Yep, and a d@mned expensive lesson I learned at age 10, but forgot in my old age.

I re-learned it very expensively with a lovely AyA sidelock 12-gauge XXV I bought when I was 35. It has nice engraving and gold inlays, and fit me perfectly. Turned out it was a great ruffed grouse gun but worthless on crossing shots, as it was too muzzle-light.

Luckily I sold it to somebody less muscular than I was, and he still shoots it well. Maybe I could now, too, since turning 60 a month ago. But I doubt it. My favorite SxS 12 now is a Sauer thst weighs a couple ounces more, and has 28" rather than 25" barrels. I bought it 12 years ago and can hit birds with it, whether at 20 or 50 yards.

Actually the phrase is "Colder than the balls on a brass monkey" A brass monkey is what they called the base on old warships where the cannon balls were stacked. They were brass plates with holes in them to hold the bottom layer of cannon balls, the stack then was built on the base layer in a pyramid form. No monkeys and no testicles were involved. Kind of a disappointing story, but it is true...

Thanks! Trivia is always welcomed.

OK, I read the first page of this thread about comparing shot for grouse. Then I went right to this last page where Shrapnel is talking about brass monkey balls. What's that about and why is Sharpnel an expert?

I tried 7 shot a few years ago in my 28 and fell in love. Seemed to be to be that perfect cross between 6 effectiveness and 7.5 pattern density. Of course if I'm buying ammo off the shelf it's the cheapest 6 I can find, usually in 16 for the 37.

I've kicked myself in the arse many, many times over that old Fox 16. This little CZ Ringneck 20 is a lot like that old Fox in weight and proportion. Hopefully I can hit something with it.

I found an old Sauer SxS 16 a few years ago but didn't buy it. They are a sweet looking rig and obviously high quality.

Very interesting, one more piece of trivia to store in the cranium!