What cartridge and rifle would you use for North American Buffalo? Free roaming animals. Western hunt.

Thanks, TJ

I would have to go with a .45 or .50 caliber Sharps just for the sake of historical tradition. In a modern gun, a .375H&H in your rifle of choice.

One of the reasons I bought a 375 Ruger Alaskan for. A future bison hunt, which because of work and time constraints I have yet to go on. Imo, can`t go wrong using either a 375 Ruger or a 375 H&H.

But I suppose that I could also use my 338-378 Wby Accumark too. That should have enough juice for bison uh?

I would think that either a 338 caliber or a 375 caliber would be among the top all around picks for bison.

If I can ever draw the permit for one, then I'll be using my Model 70 358 Norma Mag and 225gr Swift A-Frame bullets.

45 2 7/8" Shiloh M74 Business Rifle with a 546 gr paper patched bullet and 105 grs of F g worked fine on the one I shot 1 month ago and 2 weeks later a friend shot his with the same gun and load. That load was the best of the best 135 years ago on the northern plains 24/7 365 and it still works today. Using a semibuckhorn and penny front sight takes you right back in time for the original big game hunter thrill of it all.Sure you can shoot one with some 375, but it's real cool to get up on a herd that has been shot at for 5 months. That know you aren't up to any good out there get your shot off cross sticks and kill your buffalo. Magnum Man

Chad Kremer at Custer Stae Park recommends a .243, or smaller. Shoot the bull right behind the ear in the first cervical vertebra. All meat is 100% recoverable for the freezer.....

405 WCF

450M

Snake

444 Marlin or 45-70 with a hard cast bullet would be my first choice for bison, but it would also be a great excuse to pick up that 458 Win Mag my LGS has had on the shelf for years.

dawaba,

The buffalo hunter I know with the most experience (a member of the Ft. Belknap Reservation in Montana) really likes the .25-06. Maybe buffalo are bigger in northern Montana!

I think if I went on a buff hunt, it would have to be with a Sharps or a Rolling Block, something of the period that was used back then. If I was told I was going tomorrow it would be my Guide Gun in 45/70 Govt'

Never taken a buffalo or anything larger than a whitetail, But I'm thinking my 450 Marlin would do in a pinch. But I'd love to own one of those Browning singles in 45-70.

I have only seen three American buffalo taken, one with a .45-90 and a cast bullets weighing close to 600 grains, one with a .375 H&H with handloaded 300-grain Nosler Partitions, and one with a .270 Winchester and a 130-grain Barnes Triple-Shock.

Heart-lung shots were used on all three. Only the bison taken with the .270 was killed with one shot, and it also went down quicker than the other two.

In the late 70's we had semi long range matches here in kansas. Equipment had to be traditional equipment of the buffalo hunting era. Most of the rifles at the time were original equipment from the buffalo hunting time frame. Always fun to see the originals come out and do what they did so well. The prize was one live buffalo to be shot and divided amongst the winners. I had the fortune or misfortune to win at one but my choice of equipment wasn't quite what it might have been. Used a 38-55 ballard at that match so that's what I had to shoot the buffalo with. One shot behind the ear did quite nicely. This thing was just turned loose and was quite lively I might add.

I would use my 416 Rigby, or my 338RCM.

Anything from a 30-06 up should do the trick if you don't want to buy a gun just for this hunt.

Thats interesting, considering the minimum legal bore (in SD for bison) is .270 with 2,200 ftlb at the muzzle.

Well, it took 20 years, but I drew a tag for one this morning. I guess I get to see how the Norma will work this upcoming winter on one.

I used a 270 Winchester with a 150 grain hand load for mine. Other hunters used 300 WinMag and 300 Weatherby. There was no difference that we could tell in the effectiveness of the 3 different chamberings. YMMV

It would have to be my Sharps 45-90 loaded with a 540 grain bullet cast 30:1 and Swiss 1-1/2. Of course my Ballard 45-70 would have to tag along also.

My cousin shot one years ago north of Yellowstone when you still had to have a warden or such take you out. He brought along a 375 H&H. The warden comment was. "Finally someone brings a buffalo gun." From that comment I interpreted it to mean they had problems putting them down with lesser calibers. Maybe poor shooting too.

From my uncle who did this. There is a lady who lives east of here that raises buffalo. She'll take you out in her pature so you can shoot one. She insist on a .243 Win or some similar small cartridge and that you shoot them just behind the ear. This saves meat, doesn't ruin a potential mount and they don't run into the coulees to die. You are on your own should one get into the coulees from what I understand.

Many cartridges are adequate, but should I ever have the chance it simply must be a 45-70 or 90 pushing 400+ grain slugs at a snail's pace.

The only bison I've shot (decent bull) was taken with a 280 AI, 154 Hornady SP. Shot in top of the heart at about 90 yards. It died without incident.

The same day, a friend shot a cow bison with a 270, 150 grain factory ammo of some sort. Same results.

Did they seem to be any harder to kill than say an elk?

Just a Hunter,

A lot of trouble with killing bison is caused by poor shooting--mostly due to not knowing their anatomy. Due to the hump, the heart and lungs are lower in the chest than with many other animals, and the spine ain't where it is in deer and elk either.

Most of the horror stories I've heard about wounded bison were about guys who used some supposedly adequate modern rifle with premium bullets and shot too high, just fringing the top of the lungs. One guy used a .458 Lott and absolutely guaranteed the outfitter the bull would be down and dead with one shot. They ended up chasing it around for half a day in rather thick Texas cover, ending up putting several more holes in the bull before it died. Same thing happened to a Wyoming buffalo rancher I know, except the guy he guided used a .338 Winchester with some sort of premium 250-grain bullets.

If you're going to chest-shoot them, aim NO MORE than 1/3 of the way up the chest, and a foot a bove the bottom of the chest of a mature bull will take out the top of the heart.

I've killed five buffalo and three elk. Three of the buffalo were killed with a 45 2 7/8 Sharps and a 511 grain paper patch bullet, and two were taken with a 45-70 Sharps. With the 45-70, I used a 510 grain paper patch bullet for one and a 480 grain FN greaser for the other.

The first two elk were taken with a 45-70 Sharps using the 510 grain paper patch bullet. The third was taken with a 45 2 7/8 Sharps and a 515 grain paper patched bullet.

Shot in the heart or lungs, both animals seem to die about the same. Given a poor hit, the buffalo is definitely harder to put down. If I were going for either animal again tomorrow, I could carry either the 45-70 or the 45-110. Whichever rifle I chose, it would be shooting a 500 to 515 grain cast lead bullet to insure complete pass through penetration.

I'm no gunwriter and not even a bison hunter, yet, but were I to saddle up and ride out tomorrow i'd use my C Sharps 45-120 firing the 500 gr Jerry Dean flat nosed greaser at 1409 fps with KIK 2F Blackpowder, will be able to report first hand knowledge on the performance of this load for bison this fall.

Gunner

THAT will work!

Hey, there's a man that seen that combo bellow black smoke , I sure think it will Sharpsguy. <G>

Gunner

MD,
I left my .243 (and .25-06) at home and took my .375 Holland anyway. At 53 long paces, the 300 gr Nosler broke the first cervical vertebra just as completely as a 100 gr 6mm bullet would.
At the Western Buffalo processing plant in Rapid City, the butchers used a .22 Mag to cleanly dispatch the beasts.
When you think about it, these big ponderous guns DO break down shoulders and quickly bring the bison to bag, but look at the shameful waste of the best wild meat in North America!

Custer State Park is private land with a private herd on some 80,000 acres. No SoDak license or permit is required; you just gotta get lucky and draw a Custer permit.

Some day I will hunt one with my Bowen 500 Linebaugh using the 440 gr LFN at 1100 fps or so. If I were using a rifle it would probably be one of my open sighted 8x57's with the 200 gr Partition.

Orrrrr,breakin in a new 45/110 with 96 grs of KIK 2F and a big ole trot line sinker! Loaded up a half dozen and took it out on a stump over the hill..after the smoke cleared the stump needs first aid !!

Custer State Park is state land but the park runs the buffalo hunt. Its a draw for a permit. I think last year they issued 8 trophy permits for old bulls and 25 permits for young bulls (15) and cows (10). Usually takes a long time to get a permit.

The minimum caliber is .270 for both trophy bulls and the cull animals.

That sounds like a heck of a load. And then it struck me, thats the same bore, only 10% heavier bullet, and 200fps faster than what I use on little white tails!

thats beautiful

Sweet Jazus that purty Woody, those sombishes arrive with a helluva WHOP dont they? Bet that old stump is awful sore.

Gunner

According to Sharpsguy, if I do my part I could stretch out a big brown bear with this load too.

Gunner

I knocked mine down, one shot, from a 375H&H using a 270grain gran slam.
In hindsight, i didn't need that much rifle. My partner used a 300H&H, one shot, down, another guy used a 338/06.
I can't afford that kind of hunt now but if to do it again probably would default to a lighter caliber and proper shot placement, i.e. right behind the ear if possible.

the other consideration as somebody mentioned, is those big bulls get kind of edgy and are protective. Which calls for someone having big firepower.
I have pictures of a herd chasing a friend in a gator with a cow chained to the back. The herd was not amused.

The 30-06 is just fine (with proper heavy bullets), but for nostalgia, I'd for a Sharps in 45-70.

dwaba-- Shooting a buffalo through both shoulders with a 500 grain bullet out of a Sharps DOES NOT result in a shameful waste of meat. You have obviously never seen one of these rifles work on a large animal. There is minimal meat damage, far less than a modern rifle and a jacketed bullet. The old timers said that you "could eat right up to the hole." They were right.

Jerry NOW I gotta be real careful when shooting around a herd of deer or speed goats you know lack of penetration an all!

Woody--You've gotta be careful around a herd of buffalo with one of these rifles, too. Of the five buffalo I have killed and the other seven or eight I have seen shot, the ONLY bullets I have seen recovered were a 450 grain cast bullet out of a 45-90 and a 405 factory Remington load out of a Marlin 45-70 lever gun. I have never failed to shoot through and through a buffalo with either a 45-70 or a 45-110 using a 500 to 515 grain bullet. Be careful around a herd, or you will wind up killing two with one shot. Seriously.

10-4 buying a duce would be bad juju!

I would probably use my 1895 marlin cowboy in 45/70. Now I would love to use either a shiloh 1874 sharps or a 475 turnbull in one of his 1886's.

45/110 540 g Paper patched slug.106 g GOEX Express FFG

I know a fellow that works for the Crow Tribe as a game warden of sorts. He goes along on a bunch of the bison hunts the tribe sells in the foothills of the Bighorns. Sounds like it turns into a rodeo quite often due to poor shooting - one thing he mentioned that really stood out in my mind is how many old fogies who couldn't see would show up with their open sighted "Buffaler Rifles", and subsequently wound a bull. IIRC, he packs a Mini-14, and has had to finish off quite a few.

Not knocking their use, just relating a story; if I went after another I would be packing my Pa's Shiloh Sharps 45-70.

Up here, F&G requires that your rifle shoot a 200gr bullet minimum with 2000 ft/lbs. retained at 100 yards. So, for my hunt, I'm thinking the 358 Norma and 225gr A-Frames or my 300 RUM with 200gr A-Frames. At least I until October or so to decide.

BOOOMMM, one shot, two trophy fees LOL, Yes, I've heard those Sharps rifles "WAY UNDER-PENETRATE" on deer.

Gunner

I've shot three buffalo, one with a 35 Whelen with a 250 grain Speer cup and core,and the last two with a 260 Remington with 140 grain Speer Grandslams. All three were shot behind the ear and didn't even take one step. All you have to do is make sure of your backstop so you don't hit two because the 260 will go clear through a buffalo's neck.

Yep! A lot of grief could be averted with accurate shooting no matter what caliber.

Hope to someday draw a tag for the Henry's here in Utah.

This bull taken by a freind @ over 10,000FT..not your typical ranch bison hunt.300 win 180NP

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/1583237/1

This takes the drama out of shooting Bison. Shot placement in the location as described by MD puts them down pronto

No doubt BB, many ways to get it done, and get it done right and quick, but, I would dearly love to line the barrel sights of my Sharps rifle on a bison.

Gunner

I have been around plenty of buffalo kills with everything from a 30-06 to 300 WBY mag for modern calibers, plenty Sharps rifles and cartridges, but the drop 'em dead in their tracks will only happen with a well placed brain shot. As sharpsguy has posted here, you have to be careful how many buffalo you can get lined up, as a 45-70 will penetrate even 2.

The second picture is a bull that was shot with a 45-70 in a Montana Centennial rifle with 405 grain cast bullets. There were buffalo lined up behind and the bullet passed clear through the first bull a second cow and hit the leg of a third buffalo. Others I have seen shot with Sharps rifles, through the heart and they still can travel a bit before going down. Anyone that has been around buffalo and shooting them will acknowledge the fact that you have to be prepared to follow the hunted animal and not lose him in a crowd, as they can go quite awhile with a lethal shot in them.

Penetration was the factor in the old buffalo cartridges. I can tell you from experience, a 45-70 with a hard cast bullet will easily penetrate even the largest buffalo. All a 45-110, or a 45-120 will do, is hit the ground a little harder on the other side...

gunner500 I have been shooting my 1st Shiloh since 1992. It took a few years to learn how to load for it. Most of the advice I got from them "in the know" was to have it rebarreled and chambered for a 45-70 or other little cartridge. The 3 1/4" cases take some work but they do shoot well once you are on track and understand what they need. since then I've shot a couple of mule deer and antelope with my 3 1/4 50. I shot a 1 1/2 year old bull down in the Nebraska Sandhills 1 month ago with my 45 2 7/8 and paper patched bullets,2 wks later a friend used my rifle and ammo to shoot his. Doing it like this, the way they did it with the use of the same equipment gives a guy a better perspective on how tough it was back then. You don't get that shooting behind the ear with a modern ctr fire and scope.Both of us had to stalk our animals and wait for an opportunity to shoot( cleared animal with no other in the way). . Some will say no big deal but these buffalo get shot at from Labor day to presidents day and they know 2 legged varmints are up to no good.In a sense it's tougher now ,back then they didn't care whether the buffalo die in 1 min or 2 hrs as long as they got the tongue or the hide. Now we all strive for a humane one shot kill. Winter haired buffalo have lots of hair 2-4" hanging below the body line, other than their face a buffalos head is covered with long curly hair . Picking his ear or earhole out of that hair over ironsights at over 100 yds might not be as simple as some here suggest.If you can do that,by all means do as you like but as MD suggested behind the frt leg tight 12" up from the hair line is a better shot for an ironsight user.One of them Henry Mts tags and a bull like the one pictured with my 45- 2 7/8 or 50 3 1/4 would be a mighty fine event in my life. Wished now I wouldn't have waited as long as I did to shoot the 1 st one. It will allways be a Sharps-bp-paper patched bullet for me on buffalo. Magnum Man

Nice post and thanks for the info MM, I will christen my 45-120 on a bison this fall, the 500 gr Jerry Dean flat nosed greaser at 1409 fps is a real hammer, and very accurate.

Sharpsguy and ET been walking me through this Sharps rifle process, so far so good.

Gunner

I don't care if I can take a bison with a 300 Savage, I'm still trying to justify that 458 Win Mag and you guys aren't helping at all.

I'd be keen to have a crack with my 9.3x62, or alternatively load an arrow on to the rest and try and sneak up real close.

M'kay.

Of course, I misspoke. But as a State Park, it is managed differently than other state land. My bad.

I loved my hunt on CSP back in 2007, and the bull I took is currently ranked B&C #34 all-time.

I shot two cow/bull with a Shiloh sharps 45/70 . I cheated and used smokless powder. The load was 46 grains of RL7 and a 405 lead gas checked bullet.
They are one tough critter.

you just described about the perfect combination for a guide gun.

44/90 Sharps BN on far left,450 grains and 95 FFG. 45/110 next 540 g and 106 g FFG and a 30-06 for comparison. 44 dropped 500 lb wild pig in its tracks,45/110 killed Newfie moose in his tracks and Wyoming buffler the same way.

Well, I got some .308 200gr Swift A-Frames on the way. Already reloaded some 200gr Accubonds over the weekend. I'll be shooting these in my 300 RUM and will decide later on which one to take on my bison hunt.

Custer State Park is private land with a private herd on some 80,000 acres. No SoDak license or permit is required; you just gotta get lucky and draw a Custer permit. [/quote]

Not so period. Custer State Park land belongs to the state of SD, public land administered by Custer State Park. They have their own Game dept who make their own decisions as to how many deer ,elk, antelope , mountain lion tags and buffalo permits to be drawn for. That buffalo bull tag is $5000 + as we speak.While they can roam 80 k acres,they are hunted so little that they have no fear of hunters. The biggest problem besides getting them out is picking the highest scoring bull for your money.I live here, I know. Magnum Man

Not so period. Custer State Park land belongs to the state of SD, public land administered by Custer State Park. They have their own Game dept who make their own decisions as to how many deer ,elk, antelope , mountain lion tags and buffalo permits to be drawn for. That buffalo bull tag is $5000 + as we speak.While they can roam 80 k acres,they are hunted so little that they have no fear of hunters. The biggest problem besides getting them out is picking the highest scoring bull for your money.I live here, I know. Magnum Man [/quote]

Correct, but you overlooked my previous post.

Your right Dawaba about not seeing your correction. Magnum Man

Woody, what bullet is that you're running? As someof you know, I used a 45/110 with 485gr Greaser on mine. Lined it up just like any other animal I shoot, up the leg and the middle third of the shoulder. Range was a lazered 92 yards. When I came off recoil, all I could see were four legs up in the air...

I believe it is a 535 grain Postell that Otter cast up for him to try. Last time out, he booted it up to 105 gr of KIK FFG and found out what a buffler gun REALLY felt like

I just cast a few of the 500grPP out of the mold I had done. Tried it with three powders, KIK 1 & 2F as well as the GOEX 2F and it seems to like them all!

Oh, Jim, email or PM me the link to that short sight you mentioned. (sorry for the thread hijack!)

HOKAY, doin' it now

I've done this nine times, but used a 444 instead. All herd culling, but the best shot to take. Drop like a ton, waste no meat and doesn't ruin the skull.

It's fookin snowing here, I want my new Sharps rifle dameit.

Gunner

jorge just like ET said 530gr Postells that otter sent and 105gr of KIK FFG..what a hammer with that increased load! Sharpsguy turned me on to his PP mold so Bernie Rowls at Old West Molds is cutting it for me now,it's a parallel shank 510 gr flat base 1.3" long .436 dia.

Thanks Woddy, I wasn't familiar with that one 530. How does she group at 100?

Haven't had the chance to check a group at 100 due to our weather window and hunting snow geese lately but from what the guys tell me on the BPCR forum the Postell is more of a competition bullet although it blows up a stump at 80 yds with authority! BTW just picked up that custom PP mold at the PO it's a beauty and Bill's mold except for the flat base can't wait to run some! I'll send you some if you like that's the least I can do!

Keep that chit down there pard! They got us zeroed in at about 10-14 hope not.

Yeah and I was giving you chit last week about UPS not being able to deliver your rifle, then I bought one and now it's snowing and they may not be able to deliver mine on time .

Karma IS a beach.

Gunner

I've not taken an elk but have taken a rather large red deer stag in Europe. That was also taken with the same 270 hand load. Not any real difference that I could tell. But the way I checked out the Triple U Ranch website and they recommend anything from 270 up. Triple U is in South Dakota just north of Pierre and is where the movie Dances With Wolves was filmed. I hunted my bison there back in the mid-90's. Really good folks there. At the time I hunted there they had the largest bison heard in the world. Ted Turner's herd is now larger.

I used my 9.3x62 for mine and it worked nicely. That said, the 45-70 would be a natural and historically correct choice.

Hmmm, how bout that!

I'm posting as I read thru. Have 7 pages left.

Wonder how far TILL someone says .223?