Guys:

A friend recently gifted me with four unopened boxes of Federal Premium cartridges in .270 Win. (P270E - 150gr Nosler Partition bullet) They may be anywhere from 10-20 years old. There are no blemishes on either the cartridges or boxes. They were stored by his reloading bench in a dry basement here in Northern MI.

What is the shelf life of these loads? Would you use them for hunting, or just practice? Thanks.

NB

Indefinite.

As long as they were kept in those sorts of conditions, they are close to being new. I have stuff that has been stored for 30 years or more that is in great shape. Go ahead and hunt with it.

Agree 100%

The shelf life of ammunition is measured in decades. If not exposed to excess heat or corrosive conditions that ammo is as good as you could buy today.

Going off is one thing, but how about accuracy? Neck tension on the bullet doesn't start being variable from round to round after 10-20 years considering the flexing nature of brass? For average hunting range use they should be good for BG, but I wouldn't be using them for anything more than field position practice.

Spending good today dollars on a hunt, then using older than dirt ammo, just doesn't seem to add up to 1+1=2

Then there is some physical concept of two different metals-in this case brass and copper-when in long term contact initiating corrosion over time. Nope, I'm not hunting with it.

Heaven forbid you should just shoot the ammo and actually see if it is accurate.

Try it out and see how it shoots for accuracy and reliability. Bet it does fine. I've shot reloads that are 10+ years old, and they shoot just as accurately as the current bunch.

Heaven forbid the ones I shoot are and the ones I haven't are not.

I would think for average hunting there should be no problems. Then it comes down to if average is where you want to be.

Hunt with it.

THANKS for the getbacks, guys.

I have some new Fed Premium ammo w/ same loads so will head to the range and compare old vs new.

NB

Have, within the last 5 years, shot some WW1 45acp ammo without incident....

RE case neck tension, IF the ammo is stored where it can get really hot and really cold, read over 90 and probably under freezing is my guess, you could affect the tension issue but typically factory is new brass and new annealed and will be fine regardless.

Reloads though that have a few firings on the brass, stored in climate controlled areas have been fine... those in the garage that hits 120 or so in the summer I have lost large amounts of brass to splits on firing in the neck...

I have a tin of Lake City 55 grain .223/ 5.56 military ball date stamped 68. I targeted a sample a while back. In a mini-14, that load, factory Remington, and commercial reloads all did close to the same. The POI was a bit different with each, but not much difference in group size and all were acceptable. Jack

Well I am not that fussy going into my old age, I would not complain a bit if somebody just gave me four boxes of 7mm RM( your case 270) I would just smile, check zero, go hunt. Ammo last a very very very long time. When ammo is in sort supply like it is these days along with components for hand loading. Never bitch about getting something like four boxes of anything ammo wise. Gee its Christmas in June!!!!

Should be an interesting test. However, three things:

Tell me one thing, other than some completely inanimate object that is as good 10-20years down the road as it was in its prime. A loaded round is not what I would consider completely inanimate.

You walk into the store and you need some ammo right now for a hunt. There is a box that is 10 years old and another that is factory fresh. Which one you going to buy?

Lastly, I'll practice with it, but I'm not going to hunt with it.

When I was in the army, NATO had to move their ammo depot out of Charles DeGuale's France. It took truck loads going through the borders at Germany and Belgium every few minutes almost two years to clean out that one storage depot.

My point is the military is comfortable storing large amounts of ammo for a long time.

Isn't load density one of the factors to consider? I believe old compressed load .458 Win Mag ammo was/is problematic. I also had a couple of +25 year old Federal Premium .338 WM with 250gr Partitions that I tried a few months ago. The first load chronographed at +2900 FPS over a 35P! I checked the case and the neck was badly split. I pulled the other round and you could clearly see the heavy indentations the powder had made in the rear lead core. I don't know if it was a chronograph error on that one shot, but that plus the split neck was all I needed to see.

Granted the vast majority of factory ammo is not a compressed charge, so for most it should be a non-issue.

I hunted with ammo at least 70 years old and a 123 year old rifle
a little last year. Strangely, all worked as it should. Of course, i'm
sure I REALLY needed the latest plastic whiz bang belted magnum
12 power scoped something or other.....

No matter if I had new ammo or 20 yr old I'd still shoot confirm poi etc. if the old made shoots fine what would be the difference?

New off the shelf ammo, and components fail every year.

Not sure that buying new is just that much safer than old.

But in theory it should be.

Use it, FIL has ammo from when he purchased his pre 64 30-06 new and it works every year.

I bought a pair of late 50's vintage Sako L46's in .222Rem and he gave me a couple of boxes of ammo with them. They shot pretty good, not sure how old they were but were marked with a price of $4.00.

I will go one further than Battue, ABSOLUTLEY DO NOT SHOOT IT, instead, shoot me a PM and I will give you an address where you can send it for disposal. I will see to it that it does not get into the wrong hands of some one who will waste it on opening day, as we have the dreaded Condors here in Califoristan, and it would be a federal offense to use that for hunting!

I'm shooting WWII 8mm ammo. Works fine.

I did no comparison, as with the earlier posted .223, but I recently opened a twenty year old case of Remington .30-06. I could not tell it from new production except for the graphics on the boxes. It also worked fine and grouped about like I expected from that rifle. Jack

You guys should listen to the old guy I overhead at the gun shop.

According to him this new ammo has additives in the powder so that it deteriorates so you cant stockpile it. The old ammo you could keep forever.

So I guess old ammo that is old is OK but new old ammo is bad.


You guys should get out more often and get the facts.

Did he share any other hallucinations?

Recently, a friend of mine got a batch of ammo from a widow friend of his. Remington and some Hansen branded Yugoslavian NNY factory ammo, up to 30 years old. He traded me what he got in two calibers he doesn't shoot.

So far, there have been splits near the case head in every caliber and every brand. I now know that a Sako will blow hot gas on your face, a Savage 10 will blow out the extractor, and a Remington 700 you won't know what happened until you take the case out.

I'd never experienced leaking gas from a case until this experience.

If we were in desperate times, Then I might consider shooting those 20-30 year old loads. But since we are not desperate, why not pull the bullets and fire new ammo.

I would be concerned about the brass after that many years. I have a bunch of 12 ga. shells that are pre world war II and they have failed to fire what few times I have tried. I have seen some shot shells that drew dampness, have a delay in complete firing and ended up going off as the semi auto shotgun action started to open. It is worth being cautious.

I would fire it without even thinking twice about it.

Don't you guys all have old ammo from your dad or grandpa that's been sitting in the bottom of the gun cabinet for a few decades?

Fired many a round of 30 year old Lake City match in the M1A. A lot of guys at our gun club have and I never hard of a problem. I have reloaded military brass dated as far back as 55 it was fine.

I still have a bunch of circa 1937 7x57 ammo made by Kynoch and put into a 1000 round spam can. It was in the can until 1992 and has been in a good, stable, dry environment since then. Still shoots great and is very consistent over the chronograph. If kept in a good environment, it seems most ammo will last many decades. Worst stuff I ever had was some old 303 British mil-surp that looked pretty grungy so I figured it wasn't stored too good. It all went "bang" but wasn't as accurate as I expected; upon chronographing it was found to have very large velocity variations from shot to shot.

^^^ what does that old 7x57 ammo chronograph at? I assume they are 173gr bullets, right? Have you shot any game with them?

I have purchased and shot many incredibly old 22lr rounds, often finding them dirt cheap at yard sales and flee markets, sometimes am even able to trade the empty boxes afterwards for new ammo. I have also fired a good deal of surplus ammo mostly 8mm and 30-06 that was from the 40's and 50's. Also south African 308, not sure when that is from? At one time I had purchased and used for hunting norma and kynoch 9.3x57mm ammo that I thought was from the 50's maybe 60's with excellent results.

Two years ago I was assisting a women clear her garage and she gave me three buckets full of vacuum packaged ammo all milsurp, I was only able to use about 300 rounds of 9x18 so the rest went to a friend, it was a wonderful find.

When clearing out older homes whether visiting estate sales, especially if we are in a rural area or assist family moving older parents it is pretty common to find a can or box of ammo. Last time I found a coffee can of shotgun shells that I fired and in the most recent case I found a small jar with 3 22lr rounds they shot well, what I think was a 22 short missing its bullet, a high brass slug that I have never seen before and I haven't shot yet and some 7.62x39 which I gave to a friend they fired a very large group and 1 30-06 round pulled the bullet gave it to a friend (bullet is 220 grains which surprised me) I then fire formed the case to 35 whelen.

Yeah if I where paying big money for a hunt I wouldn't use that kind of ammo but I am not really a fancy guy and I like to use what I find.

I have fired german ammo waffen/swaztiga/ marked from 1937 with no issues.
I have pulled projectiles/powder from early 50's french 30.06 ball, reloaded in new brass, and chron'd it with about 10fps variance.
I have a box of ammo from the civil war, unopened, for a spencer carbine. I would not fire it because of what it is, but i have a feeling it's an even bet some of them would work.
and i have fired 30's production german 8mm in a M.G. 42 without any issues at all.

Just went through some of my old shooting log books and couldn't find my chronograph results for that Kynoch 7x57. Got my first chronograph in Mar. '97 and this stuff was chron'd in '97 or '98 from a 1908 Brazilian Mauser with a 28" barrel. On the boxes the bullet is listed as a 140 gr. Solid Pointed Bullet. Even says "Nitro-Cellulose Powder" also. I can recall getting very consistent velocities and low extreme spreads with this stuff. Too bad I don't recall the velocity. Still have close to 900 rounds of it and this season for sure I'm gonna chrono it again in the same gun and be sure the results get into my records. Haven't hunted with any of it cause I figured a solid wouldn't be the way to go on any critters that I'd be hunting.

I've shot WW1 ammo and it worked beautifully. Perhaps the powder had degraded slightly, but it worked and gave me 2-3" groups from an '03 Springfield. The only thing I didn't like is the corrosive primers.

Why doesn't old factory ammo "weld" the case neck to the bullet?

Have it stored around moisture and the process will begin. It needs moisture for the molecules of the two different metals to start a bond or corrode. I looked it up. It is known as galvanic corrosion. An electrical current is initiated. Car batteries work on the same principle.

I didn't think my basement had an excessive amount of moisture until I purchased a dehumidifier. Turn on the house AC and it fires up almost immediately.

forever, if stored right

Our military folks are still shooting .50 BMG ammo from the 1940s.

I've got 8mm Turk from the '20s and 7.62x54 from the 30's, 40's and 50's that shoot just fine.

I don't recall ever having a misfire from thousands of rounds of old milsurp.

There was this story in the "American Rifleman" a few years ago. After the War with Spain ended the US Navy recovered the battleship Maine from the bottom of the Bay of Havana. There were rounds of small arms ammo that had been sitting under water for several years. They tested them, and not one single round failed to fire properly.

I have rounds I loaded in the early 80s and just finished firing some of them about four years ago.

I haven't had an old smokeless round misfire, but have had some less-than-perfect experiences.

A friend traded some old .303 British military ammo to me a few years ago, made sometime around WWI. It is in very good condition but the mercuric primers have deteriorated enough that so far EVERY round has been a hang-fire.

My grandfather-in-law. who lived in Florida, wanted to go deer hunting with me here in Montana about 20 years ago, and had an FN Mauser .270 with iron sights. He realized he couldn't see irons well enough anymore, so shipped me the rifle and box of Winchester ammo he'd had around for years, asking me to mount a scope and sight it in do it would be ready when he came up. I mounted the scope and the second round I fired blew a hole through the sidewall just above the case head. Luckily, the 98 action, even though of the denigrated "H" ring style, deflected the gas from my face, and I just felt a little on my left ear. I looked more close at the rest of the ammo, and there were some tiny signs of corrosion I hadn't noticed at first glance, probably from being stored within 3 miles of the Atlantic Ocean for a number of years.

Given proper storage probably infinite. Given improper storage probably toast yesterday.

In 87 we pulled some 7.62x54R (Nagant) ammo apart that was loaded in the 20's and used the powder and a Lee Loader to load some 308. We had a LOT (about 2 feet, as I recall) of vertical dispersion but all of the rounds hit a man-sized target at 600yd.

Mercuric primed surplus ammo was how I learned about hang fires. Dad wanted a rifle and picked up a '91 Argie to sporterize when they were dirt cheap in the '60s. Even with a full ten second count opening the action was scary, some rounds went off past a five count. Everything chlorate primed no matter how ancient has worked fine for me, as well as the early non-corrosive primed stuff I've come across. I can't imagine newer production doing worse. Happy Father's Day Dad, I can't do better than wish through the ether.

Yeah, there's a reason everybody switched from mercuric priming!

The most interesting thing about my old .303 ammo is that it's also loaded with Cordite. Broke down one round and the "powder" is in perfect condition. It's interesting to light a stick....

As always the wiser question is shelf life of this ammunition. There is ammunition from the late 19th century that has been pretty good and from the late 20th century that has failed - especially but not exclusively new technology like the lead free primers and frangible bullets. Not a knock on current production which may be pretty well worked out by now but certainly wasn't always.

I have ammunition in the 10-20 year old range that I have full confidence in - don't even consider old and I have no plans to check my records for actual age - but then again there is some I don't.

How it is stored has much to do with how long it remains viable. Constant cool temperatures and low humidity are best. Stored in metal cans with desiccant thrown in, the ammunition will outlast your grandchildren.

Dark Lord of the Polvere Nera
Copyright 2012 - Stephen Redgwell

For more than 1500 years, Sabrero, Necromancer and Dark Lord of the Polvere Nera controlled the earth. He gave man the magical grains that fueled so much discontent. As its spell over the world grew, the mysterious vials of the �black powder� were responsible for much iniquity and death.

�Behold, Vertigo! Look upon the evil of man! Witness the vileness of his ways; his greed; his lust for power. Watch, as he plunders and kills others, taking from them that which he wants! This gives me pleasure! I will never forget the day that I gave Bacon, Franciscan man of God, the means to make the devil�s fire.�

Sabrero�s manservant Vertigo stood beside his master and watched the field of death that grew ever larger. Men fought and died. They stabbed and gouged each other; the sheer malevolence of a world on fire could be seen in the eyes of the men with the black powder sticks.

Sabrero chuckled to himself and said, �Bacon was in awe and frightened both, when he made his first bowl of the magical powder. What was it he said?�

�When the flame of powder toucheth the soul of man, it burneth exceeding deep.�

"He thought himself profound. No so! He was bewitched!"

Sabrero stroked his long white beard and contemplated the folly.

�Indeed, Bacon never saw Beelzebub�s hand, nor mine, in that sulfuric mix. It feeds the evil. Watch, as they kill each other. It is the powder that changed man. It truly has taken possession of their souls. Though the secret is known only to a few, it�s very existence has influenced the world! They will continue the battle until no one is left standing. They do not know how to control the powder. In truth, it controls them!�

�Master, will the powder not fail after a time?� asked Vertigo, confused that such a simple mix of ingredients could destroy the world.

�It can be made to fail, but man preserves and guards it. He makes ever increasing amounts of the powder, so that he will never run out! He generates his own misery. It is an obsession! It is his doom!�

�But Master, can they not break free of the spell?�

�Never! They are too weak; too self absorbed to be its master. As to your question, �Will the powder not fail after a time?� The answer is no. As long as there is evil in man�s heart, it shall continue to gain strength and spit death upon all who touch it! This is our gift of pestilence!�

Well; it's been over a year since the last post on this thread but I was reminded of it the other day when I dug out some of my old 1937 vintage Kynoch 7x57 140 gr. ammo. Last year when I was on this thread I couldn't find my notes on the chrono results with that stuff. So today I went to the range and brought the same old 1908 Brazilian Mauser along with some of the exact same ammo and chrono'ed it at about 72 degrees today along with several other guns but here's what the 77 year old Kynoch 7x57 ammo did from the 28" barrel of the Brazilian Mauser; (5 rounds) as measured by a shooting chrony:
Low: 2843
High: 2895
Average: 2877
Extreme Spread: 51.7
Standard Deviation: 20.85
Not too bad for 1937 vintage ammo. It was in a spam can until the early 1990's and in a cool dry environment with no big temperature swings since then. Plus; it's about as accurate as anything else I've put through that old Mauser, which is a good shooter but not exactly a tack driver. But that's mainly due to me being in my 60's and discovering what old guys say about those crummy little iron sights designed for teenagers (grin). Here's all 5 rounds: 1.2871 2.2886 3.2843 4.2895 5.2889.