My 23 year old daughter likes to hunt deer and hogs. She never still hunts but is always in a stand. She has a Weatherby SA-08 Youth and the recoil doesn't bother her but then again she's always standing when firing.

She has a Vanguard S2 Youth .243 for deer and hogs. I've put a comb riser on it and the cheek weld is just right. She doesn't like to shoot it though because of the recoil even though the recoil is considerably less than her 20 gauge. The reason of course is because she is always sitting down when firing her rifle because when she is shooting it is either to sight it in or in a stand where to fire she has to be kneeling or in a chair because the roof isn't tall enough for her to stand. She has developed a flinch.

I've fired a Browning Bar in 30-06 and the felt recoil was much less than firing my bolt 30-06, weight of the rifle being roughly the same. The Bar I shot didn't have BOSS either.

So I was thinking of purchasing her a wood stocked BAR in .243, having the stock cut down and having a trigger job done to give her a nice light pull.

This would be done when funds permit which is not feasible now but will be by the 2015 season. What do you think of this possible solution? Does it make sense? I know the rifle will be heavy but that won't be an issue because all she would have to do is carry it from the truck to the stand and back.

If it makes sense to you. I'd get a 223 and call it a day.

Ruger American in 223 would serve her nicely and is the best deal around right now. Just make sure you use the right bullet. If you don't reload, I think Winchester has some hog specific loads. If you do, then there are plenty of good bullets.

Yup 223

You can get one the Ruger Americans in a .223 with a decent scope for half of what you'd pay for a new Browning BAR. If you want to get her a semi-auto get her an AR-15 and set it up for hunting.

I've owned several BAR's over the past 40 years....they all have been more than accurate for hunting...

My wife has a BAR 7mm RM with a factory 20" barrel...I needed to cut 2" off the stock to fit her.... she has used it for the past 8 years to harvest a truck load of whitetails and several bears...

I picked up a 6.8SPC upper for her thinking less recoil for her...she didn't even want to try it out wanting to use her BAR...she is a one gun person....and deadly with it...

Before attacking the rifle, I'd focus on the load. If you would cook up something with H4895 and knock 5% off the max, you might find it functioned nearly the same as a full-house load with greatly reduced recoil. That was what I did with my sons and my girlfriend.

Also add some weight to the stock. I used 50 cal lead bullets in the stock of my wife's 30-06 and really reduced the felt recoil.

Personally, if you like the idea of an autoloader I think you're on the right track. The BAR Shortrac is a sweet looking rifle and in .243 it's less than 7 lbs.

I have an old 30-06 from 1968 in the safe that is lacking in recoil. The .243 should be nothing. I was considering this same option for someone and may yet follow thru on it. Here's one for sale on GB:
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=431272583

I do reload and use low power loads for her. I prefer for her not to use a .223 for deer, it is okay for hogs because if we don't recover one it is no big deal. I've shot a couple of deer with my AR using 65 grain Sierra GameKings and neither traveled very far. She is pretty accurate with a shotgun and very accurate with her 9mm but with her .243 not so much. Before I go the BAR route I'm going to try having her shoot her 20 gauge several times at a stationary target and then have her shoot her .243 at the same target standing up using my sticks. Then ease her back into shooting sitting down.

She has shot her 20 gauge sitting down while patterning chokes and while she commented that the recoil was harsher it didn't bother her. I think it is just a mental thing with her or the rifle fit may be causing felt recoil to be very harsh.

I've tried to find someone local with a Lady Savage for her to try but to no avail. I have nothing against using a .223 for deer and hogs. My FFL is a former marine and he uses a .223 for big game but he is an outstanding marksman and uses head shots exclusively. If she was that good I wouldn't have a problem with her using a .223. She is also at an age where getting her to practice is almost impossible.

If I were to get her a .223 it would be a Vanguard over a Ruger. I feel that Weatherby stocks are much better at attenuating recoil.

Bigger is always better if you can't shoot.

What shaman said. Nosler shows the best accuracy with the starting load of 4895 with the 95 grain Partition or Ballistic tip at just under 2600. That should be a very mild recoiling load.

Money seems to be an issue for now, and the loading bench seems to be the inexpensive way out. Just a ? Does she wear ear protection in the stand? It might be noise rather than recoil. Hunter's ear! Also, what kind of recoil pad. Limb Saver or Decelerator can make a difference. I have installed triple magnum pads on shotguns for ladies.

The BAR should be a solution. So could a mercury recoil reducer. You are trying to do the right thing. Recoil can ruin the desire to hunt. Not all of us handle it the same way. My brother hated to shoot his Model 70 in .270 and gave it away. I just never thought the recoil was bad at all with it.

Best wishes,
Jack

True, but he's looking for someone to tell him what he wants to hear.

It would be hard to go wrong with a Howa or Vanguard in .223.

I'd buy an AR for her long before I bought a BAR.

It's obvious she has a sensitivity to recoil based on what you have written. .223 is the answer to your question.

Don't make us post pictures to prove it.



Travis

Bullshit, I'm looking for the best solution. But if you are alluding to the fact I don't want her using a .223 that's not wanting someone to tell me what I want to hear. Unless a person is an outstanding shot I feel that a .223 is marginal for deer. There are tons of people who believe a .243 is marginal for deer but I'm not one of them.

I would contend that there is a flaw in your logical regarding what cartridge/caliber combination is "marginal" on deer the size of a Texas whitetail.

It's very obvious your daughter has an issue with recoil. I do not believe the BAR is going to reduce recoil enough to make a difference for the shooter (your daughter).



Travis

Define outstanding shot.

Is that a person that can keep the shot out of the guts? If so, bigger ain't gonna help much.

What about a Limbsaver butt pad, they cut a lot of recoil?

She uses ear plugs. I use electronic muffs because you can hear even better with them but she prefers plugs.

The Vanguard S2 has an excellent recoil pad. I have an S2 in 30-06 and it is as good as the Pachmayrs I put on my Remington 700 ADL .270 and CZ 550 American 6.5x55. She keeps my Stag Model One at her house for HD but it only has an Aimpoint with no magnification and as I have stated she will not be using a .223 for big game. She is 5'7" and pretty strong. Before she got her semi she used a Mossberg Bantam for a number of years so I know there is a solution for here to be able to handle a .243.

Why don't you have a brake installed on her .243?



Travis

Find some Trail Boss and do reduced loads with it for practice, even if you can't get much practice time in. 100gr or less bullet at 1500 could be handled by about anyone. You take care of the sight-in of whatever 2600fps or so reduced loads you want her to hunt with and there's no need for her to use those until hunting. On shots at game she'll never notice the difference.

http://www.imrpowder.com/PDF/Trail-Boss-data.pdf

Because especially in a confined space like a deer stand the blast would be horrendous.

If you slide the muzzle outside of the blind when you fire, it should be less horrendous.

Good luck to your daughter this season.



Travis

Its all so clear to me now - a Browning BAR in 243 would be the best answer for your daughter's recoil problem. Buy her one as quickly as possible.

David

Bingo

Blue Dot 120-140gr loads in my daughter's 7lb 7mm-08 youth rifle make me laugh they are so gentle. I cannot see anything out there that would compare to a Blue Dot 243 load with soft 85-100gr bullets. Recoil levels would be like the 223 with factory loads. Keep the bullets in the lungs and you are golden. Let her hunt like that a year or so and shoot a lot to cure the flinch (with double ear protection), then move up to mid-level loads. The problem may cure itself in short order, provided there is enough practice.

A new rifle in not needed to fix this short-term problem, not at all.

243 bolt

then they know whrn they chamber a round

She's been shooting a sem-auto shotgun for a number of years so that is not an issue I my mind. She's not a kid, she'll be 24 in December. If she were a lot younger and not experienced I would agree with you. She also exhibits excellent fire control with her shotgun and 9mm. On the other hand she has never fired a gun without me being right there with her.

So what is it you were looking for?

I was thinking about replacing her Vanguard S2 Youth .243 with a Browning Bar .243 with a shortened stock. Thought it might reduce recoil considerably.

It won't. Particularly if she is generating most of the recoil with her flinch, which with a 243 she probably is....

David

An auto requires full-house ammo to run correctly, but takes a bit of bite out of the recoil to the shooter. Downloaded ammo can be used in a bolt gun or single shot, also taking a bit of bite out of the recoil to the shooter. Net effect is the same, if not more, by using the light loads. No new gun to buy or cut down. Get her past the flinches, and she can go back to full power loads in her bolt gun.

If you want to give your girl a nice new rifle, do so.

A BAR would be a very fine gift.

Curing her flinch, though, will likely require the same medicine that most of us have to take at sometime. Get back to basics with a .22, then reduced loads, and good ear protection.

Also check her stand(s) for anything that might be contributing to a problem that seems to exist for her only in the stand.

Maybe your daughter is trying to tell you she doesn't like hunting. I know my son went through all the motions and I jumped through hoops to get him involved but in the end he could just not do it. Walking up on a dead animal is a big deal to some people...especially the first time. They may say something or they may just play along. My boy just has too much of his mother in him I guess because in the end...he said that hunting was just not for him. It broke my heart but he's my son and I still love him. powdr

Teach her to shoot standing and kneeling with a 22 Hornet since 22RF is so hard to find, then transition to using the 243 the same way.

Stay off the benches. Use them to sight the gun in and never put a new shooter in a seat.

Is it possible that the stock is too short for the position she's shooting from?

A PAST pad would lengthen the pull a little and reduce the recoil as well as spread it out over a larger area. Save Dad about $1500 too.

How about a CZ 452 in 7.62x39? It has roughly the power of a 30-30 and less kick than "high velocity" loads.

If she likes autos, consider a Ruger 44 mag carbine. Plenty of them on the used market.

I also like the brake idea. I have an M700 Mountain in 280 with a brake, and it's a sweetheart to shoot. An acquaintance has a 300 Win mag with the Anwser System brake and pad, and it shoots easier than any 243 I ever shot.

This thread is going full UBER.



Travis

Never doubted otherwise.

As is often the case, the first reply is the best one.

What she really needs is a 6.8 SPC, which is kinda like a .223 in recoil but with bigger-diameter .243-weight bullets so it kills more like, um, a .250 Savage. Which would work too, because the .250 doesn't kick as hard as the .243, unless you load it like one....

There are probably a million solutions to inspire even the looniest rifle loony, who like Martha Stewart wants everything to be just so.

Yup just look @ some of the "expert" magnum shooter

Just another thought. When my daughter turned 15, she wanted to go to South Africa with me like her brother did at 13. She had never hunted much and had not shot much either. She is not tiny but she is not big for her age either. She shoots left handed like I do.

She wanted to take some larger animals like a blue wildebeest and her real favorite, a zebra. I did not think a 243 was large enough for them and she has a low pain tolerance so a larger caliber was not going to work without some changes.

I have an older Rem 700 FS which is left handed in 30-06. I loaded some Barnes 150 grain TSX with IMR 4350 to about 2450 fps. This is a light rifle and she still handled it with no problems. She shot it off sticks and off the bench before we left. In SA, she took 3 animals, an nyala, a blue wildebeest, and a zebra with one shot each and none of them went further than 75 yards after being hit.

Last November she shot her first whitetail deer through the heart with one shot and it traveled maybe 30 yards. She has total confidence in the rifle and waits until she is steady to shoot.

You may want to try downloading a larger round with a bullet noted for penetration like a Barnes or bonded bullet to keep the recoil down while still ensuring excellent penetration.

The only downside to all of this is I will probably never get to shoot that Rem 700 again. She has claimed it for good. It is certainly worth it to gain a hunting partner for life though.

She really likes to hunt hogs and dove. I've been loading 85 grain Sierra HPBT's over 29 grains of H 4895. You guys have about worn me down. She doesn't flinch when shooting her shotgun and my AR. I use 65 grain Sierra GK's in my AR that she keeps at her house so maybe I'll take the Eotech off and put the Bushnell Elite 2x7x32 off her .243 or a Viper 2x7x32 that's laying around on it and let her try it for a while.

cdb, you've warn yourself down! These guys have offered great advice, which you asked for. Most people would be appreciative of the advice here. Seems like if you were already set on the Browning! Why would you ask if you weren't open for suggestions? Not trying to be an ass, just saying.

Saying they wore me down is a figure of speech. It was meant as a compliment. If was already set on the Browning I wouldn't have originated the thread. Look at my first post. I was asking if others thought the Browning was a good idea. The only thing I wasn't really receptive to was .223. I would be willing to bet you have been given good advice at least once in your life and didn't take it. At the end of the day I'm implementing the advise I was given.

I have ten managers that report to me. I quite often ask their opinions and sometimes I agree with their opinions and follow through on the advise that is given. Sometimes I don't and follow through with my idea. And sometimes I am resistant to advise initially and reject it but when I rethink the issue I change my mind and follow through on the advice.

I wasn't set on the Browning but I was against the idea of her using a .223. If you read back I really wanted to find a Lady Savage for her to handle but couldn't find one.

I feel that this thread was a success. There was a dialogue, an exchange of ideas, advice was given, I wasn't rude to anyone who gave me advice, only to the person that said I was wanting people to tell me what I wanted to hear. If that were true I would have stopped posting and gone to another forum and looked for some people that would tell me what I wanted to hear. And if I remember correctly at least one person thought the BAR was a decent idea.

My apology for not coming around to the advise most of the posters were giving fast enough for you.

That was the most polite GFY I have ever read.

Bravo sir.

Can we start posting .223 pictures now? You already know you're going to take the plunge.


Travis

That cracked me up

John I like the idea of a .250 Savage but the 6.8 SPC doesn't happen for me. Of course if I had a Savage 99 in .250 I would probably keep it for myself and my daughter would never touch it. So a 6.8 SPC would be better for her.

Put 22 in front of the 250 part and you'd REALLY be golden!

Thank you everyone for your responses. Sorry for the rant a minute ago. Just between us girls I felt the need to verbalize my thoughts as we girls are want to do.

I hate to hijack my own thread but last night there was a commercial on TV by a pharmaceutical firm advertising a new drug. As they all do at the beginning their was huge number of symptoms listed that if you experienced then you needed the drug. One of the symptoms stated was this: Do you go to bed at night and wake up in the morning? Still haven't gotten my head wrapped around that one.

This thread must be that 'War on Women' that Democrats are always frothing about.

This nice young woman was about to get a shiny new rifle from her Daddy, but you guys threw every argument against it that you could til he's only going to loan her some silly .223.

Misogynist bastids, one and all.

Get her the shiny new BAR when the time comes, and load her some flinch fighting pills until then.

Will you be my new best friend and pay for the BAR? And if you turn out to be really weird I'll just tell people we met at an aromatherapy class.

cdb, It's all good. I wasn't trying to come across harsh. It's some great advice on this forum, I don't wanna flame anyone. I've learned a bunch on here myself.

What has me curious is that an adult woman, who shoots a 20ga and an AR223 with no issues, thinks a 243 loaded with 85 gr bullets recoils too much?

IMO, it is either noise, or the stock does not fit her, like the comb is hitting her cheekbone.

So, make her wear plugs and phones to see if that makes things better.
If not, try a straight combed stock. A Hogue or Bell & Carlson wouldn't cost much.

I find straight stocks work best for me. Everyone is different though.

If she's shooting out of a blind, how about a bull-barreled .243? That might have enough weight to tame the monster.

I simply loaded the Nosler 85 Pt w/ minimum loads (34 g. H-4895) for our NE Washington deer and 21 gr. H-4198 w/80 gr anythings for gophers ect. at 2,000 fps. (shot several hundred a year). When he was 12 he weighed about 80# soaking wet and 5 foot nuthin then and his rifle was/is a Mod 7 youth w/18.5" bbl. I have since screwed on a 22" takeoff Mod. 700 .260 Rem bbl and he now uses max H-4350 loads and Nosler 125 Pt's. and is 28. I think that the reduced loads are the real key, particularly the muzzle blast reduction- Muddy

As a first choice I'll stick with the ShorTrac suggestion. Pretty rifle for a pretty daughter. Load some minimum charge rounds and see if they cycle. If not bump 'em up. In .243 it ain't gonna kick. We got you tagged now Daddy Pockets. 10 managers reporting to you? Squeeze the juice outa your check book and go with your gut. She'll love it and you will too. Enjoy it while you can. Years pass too quickly. Best to you.

If you have 10 managers reporting to you but can't spell "advice" correctly I suspect you're an ubermanager at a shovel-ready Obamanation bidness whose daughter has issues far beyond recoil.

Let her shoot deer with the 20-gauge and tell error-buddy t'were a .62 muzzleloader.

JFC, TGIF!
And...GFY!

Sorry, been a long week. Tell her to harden TFU! Before 'flave gets turgid!

P.S. My youngest son shot his first deer at 11 with a .350 Remington Magnum, because he thought it kicked like a 20 ga. He was uber pudgy 4-ft.-8-in. At time. Now 6-ft. 180 that prefers .22/250 55-gr. CL.

There's no end to the ballistic gackery that could arise! Would someone please put that Asian Ginger gif on this thread? And get me another mug 'o merlot.

Seriously , I love y'all!

I went back and checked and the post and the first time I used it advise was spelled correctly and the second time I used it I misspelled it. Shame Shame on me.

THE REST OF THIS POST IS VERY BORING AND TOTALLY OFF TOPIC!


I actually lied about the managers, I have 16 managers reporting to me but I didn't want to look like a blowhard. But things are quite often not what they seem. I've had the same admin since 1992. I have the title and she is smart enough to make it look like I run the show. Behind closed doors I pretty much answer to her. I'm 55 and she is 64. She knows me better than my mother, acts like my mother and has my signature down so well that she signs documents when I'm not in the office. No one, not even my wife of 30 years can tell the difference. And yes even though I love her I'm also scared of her. I've been in Telecom since 1989, the industry crashed in 2000 and companies have been cutting back ever since. Because of layoffs I have too many people to oversee. I run the agent channel for my company and am over Texas, Colorado, Utah, Arizona , Oregon and Washington. Each of my managers has two direct reports and manages 40 to 75 agents. It is too much. My admin told me I receive over two hundred Emails a day.

It has been a good run but my company is transitioning from Chapter 11 to Chapter 7. As such I will be unemployed September 1st for the first time since 1981, my Stock Options are worthless and my 401k is zero because the company embezzled every employee's plan. My retirement is gone and it was a VERY nice one. A year ago my wife traded me in on a younger model. BUT!

I'm currently living on seven hundred acres which I get to hunt and have 78 sections of family land to hunt five hours away. I have an incredible daughter who at 23 is already making a VERY good living, not only loves her father but likes him and thinks he's cool and likes to hunt with him also. I also have a 17 year old son who hasn't discovered yet that I'm not the smartest man in the world, likes to hang out with his Dad and chose to live with me instead of his mother. He plays lead guitar in a cover band that plays rock from the 70's. He plays songs like Black Dog, Thick as a Brick, Sweet Jane, etc. He is fun to be around. I also have some awesome friends and my faith so life is good.

I also think my baby girl is kind of pretty.

Do you not listen to any of them either?

Where I you I would CERTAINLY ask the Lord for guidance in rifle selection for your daughter. If you leave it in the hands of God all will be good.

Forget the heathens on the 'Fire.


Cheers

F'in calculus was a cinch...

I am one of those that thinks that handloads cure all ills. There is no reason that a .243 can't be a fat 22 rimfire, or an elk slayer, or a low-recoil and noise deer getter, all with the proper handloads.

My first gun was an H&R 20 gauge single-shot, received when I was 10. It kicked like an angry mule when loaded with waterfowl and goose loads. I haven't shot a rifle as 200lb man that had near the recoil for me as that damnable little 20 did for that 75lb kid. And I never felt the recoil of the 243 or 257 when shooting at animals as a young teen.

I can see why you coddle your daughter though. I imagine you stay tightly wrapped around the finger of her choosing. And I agree, she is pretty. Was going to make a joke about how she'd be prettier w/o the mustache, but it was too obvious. Congratulations for making it through what sound like some horrible bumps and bruises that life has thrown your way, and keeping a positive outlook as well as a great relationship with your kids. FYI, overwhelming data shows that the well-being of children age 6 through adulthood is entirely correlated with their positive interactions with a father.

I didn't take the time to go through all of the comments. I built a 30BR for my Grandson when he was about 8yrs old. It shoots 125 grain bullets out of a 16 twist barrel. He is now a football player for West Virginia and will not allow me to rechamber it for him. He said"Papaw, I have shot over 20 deer and hogs with one shot". He won't allow me to fool with it. No recoil and very accurate. He loves to shoot all my bigbores but loves his 30BR.

That's a pretty good idea. But I also think it's kinda stupid.



Travis

You're an enigma, 'flave.

Get a 223 or 22-250 or if you are dying to spend a grand on a gun send off a 223 bolt gun and get a 6x45 for her. Or load the 243 to 6x45 levels. Or put a can on the 243 it seems to make it quiet and recoil substantially less. That's as uber as I can't think

My grand daughter shoots a 20 for ducks. i bought a Savage 340 in 30-30, she shot it and told her mom it was like someone pushing her with their hand.

Love the 340 because it is easy to clear of rounds when you get back to the vehicles.

I'd go Krico 700 in 5.6x50 rimless and stoke it with 60 Horn SP's....RWS cases for Uber and for lack of all others.

On second thought, go Iowegian and get her a nice 20 gauge with slugs. Legislatures and Dads know best.

Tannerite can fill shorts and rattle window panes...YMMV.

Bar s arent light, that alone will take some of the recoil out.

Thirty years ago, I cut a .243 BAR to fit ladies and the stair step kids coming to deer camp. It worked just fine for each and every one for stand hunting. EDIT: although she is a tall lady, cousin's daughter still keeps the cut down BAR as a loaner. She uses an issue Gd.II .270 BAR.

I disagree with those who think that the gas gun does not reduce felt recoil. I once owned , at the same time, .338-06s in a rebored BAR and in a nice custom Springfield. They weighed about the same. The BAR was a pussycat, the '03 was a thumper, with the same loads.

After reading your story, I understand the reluctance to a cash outlay. Maybe it is time to treat daughter like a self supporting adult. Help her try lots of solutions - from the loading bench all the way to a new rifle. If a new rifle is the order of the day, let her fund it. Two of my three daughters can buy most anything they want. The third has a good job again, but is recovering from a financial disaster, similar to your story, in some ways.

Best wishes for a speedy recovery.

Jack

That is a mental problem. I know because I have that tendency and have to work around it. You have gotten a lot of suggestion on rifles, hand loading, and what not, but none of them are likely to solve the flinching problem.

That takes concentration that comes from practice and lots of it. The idea about the silencer may help or it may not. Sometimes it is not a matter of anticipating the recoil or the blast but an issue called "target panic" where you want to punch the trigger before your sights move off of the target.

If I were you and your daughter is willing, I would get a 22 rifle and have her shoot that practicing breathe, aim, slow squeeze. Don't worry so much about hitting the target at first. Later, take the .243 and load it for her each time but don't allow her to watch you do it. Randomly close the action on an empty chamber and see if she flinches.

It is likely one of those kind of problems that throwing money at won't help....unless the money goes to powder and bullets.

I'd try putting a lot of weight in the existing rifle and a thicker pad after hollowing out the stock to make room for weight. Maybe try a good slug barrel on the shotgun or raise the roof on the stand.

I'm not sure what the availability is these days but I'd get the stock on the existing rifle modified Hydro-Coil (the brand name is long since out of business but like the comb it's a potentially straightforward modification might even try it yourself) style - best done as a custom modification; sometimes the Hydro-Coil style stock needs a little extra length of pull to fit as the stock telescopes.

If she's enthusiastic after handling the Browning then it's never a bad idea to buy a rifle she likes and feels connected with -

I'd worry about the flinch and work on that off season with reduced loads or clay bird shooting in the already acceptable shot gun or something.

My brother bought for his first two kids Walmart special Savages in 243 Win. He cut down the stocks and added a slip-on pad to each. Light guns, loud and snappy with top end loads and 100gr bullets. HIs kids did fine with them Now it has been left to him to take his tiny-for-his-age nephew under his wing and into the field. The kid shoots rimfire very well, but was intimidated with the 243, and couldn't shoot it. We picked a fast powder(IMR4064) and soft bullet(100gr Speer BTSP) and worked up an accuracy load at about 2500fps. It is comparatively mild in noise and recoil, and the wee nephew shoots it just as well as a 10/22. He was proud to pack it last year, though we couldn't get him on anything. He can shoot milk jugs at 200 and 1/2L water bottles at 100 from field positions, so he is good to go. We limited him to 200 last year, but with practice he may be good to 300 this year. I just hope we can get him on something!

Just wanted to illustrate a bit my point about handloading being the easy and inexpensive solution here, since there is a perfectly good rifle already in the mix. And the best solution in my mind, as I am a load loony just as much as a gun loony.

Kinda confused young man? If a rifle suits a hunter and he is confident in it, why should he want to change.
Yes, if he ever has time and we make the Africa or Alaska trip, he will use another rifle.
Sounds like a stupid response to a person's post. You were kidding I hope.

That is what I did and for the time being she will be shooting an AR. If she shows the dedication she needs to and practices then we will revisit the .243 situation. Of course since I've somewhat changed my mind about .223 for deer and hog, if she becomes a dead shot and wants to stay with the .223 AR platform, I'll sell her .243 and get her a S&W M&P.

In response to some recent posts:

I do handload and was loading reduced recoil loads in her .243.

She also will be shooting my handloads with .65 Grain GameKings in the AR.

She has been shooting a .22 for many years, still shoots rabbits with her Model 60 and is very accurate.

I for the the first time fell into the trap that so many men call in to. I was wanting her to shoot what I thought was best instead of letting her make the choice.

I was throwing the idea of a bar out there to see what others thought. I know from personal experience that even without BOSS the BAR can reduce felt recoil substantially. On the other hand, even without my current situation if a less expensive solution is available I'm for it.

Thank you Steelhead for your words of wisdom.

I'm not confused. The cartridge/rifle combo does have merit (as evidenced by your son's success). Especially for somebody like yourself that likes messing with cartridges and is a rifle loonie.

But my point was that I doubt it kills a Texas whitetail any deader than a .223. Which is far more commoner.



Travis

My Grandson, not my Son. Yes, if I shot a deer in the right place with a 22RF it is dead also.

cdb,

The 223 will slaughter deer but I would highly suggest you look at 62gr Federal Fusions, any TSX/TTSX, etc.

My FFL uses 65 grain GameKings on deer with great results and they are very accurate in the AR my daughter will be hunting with. Texas deer are not known for their size and and where we hunt I doubt we've ever killed a deer that dressed out at more than 100 pounds. So I'll stick with the GK's for right now.

If it works for you and her, stick with it.

I will, just don't see the need for a super tough bullet on our small whitetails.

Update, I was hired at Cabela's starting part time on Thursday. Will be working the gun counter. I found out Cabela's almost never hires people full time. You have to start out part time. I plan to see how it goes.

Hell this is nine pages of coddling...get the girl a .250Savage, load up or buy some eighty seven grain bullets and let her go kill some stuff. powdr

We don't have hogs here in these parts so I'm wondering why it's ok to wound & lose a hog, but not a deer.

Hogs are considered non-game animals down here. Pests, vermin, varmints.