What are your thoughts on 300 H&H vs. 30-06? Want to hear opinions.

I much prefer the .30 Whelen to either one.

FC

I've owned three .300 H&H's. It's a nice round, especially if you want to a traditional .300 magnum. But right now I don't own one, and probably wouldn't own any .300 magnum if I didn't have to for professional reasons.

The 30-06 is the more practical round of the two and also an excellent all-round hunting cartridge. However, I really like the grand old 300 H&H, especially in a pre'64 Model 70 Winchester. Who says that shooters have to be practical?

I have one H & H in a number 1.. I really like it.. It will be my hunting rifle in the years to come, when I want a light weight rifle...
When I was a young fellow fifty years ago, repeated some of JOC's drivel about the H & H being little more than an 06.. I told this to an older Camp Perry shooter.. Who used BOTH extensively.. He explain there is quite a difference in the two.

Like Mule Deer I have several .300's and several 06's.. But if the 06's had not belonged to my relatives, they would be long gone.

Not a gunwriter, but I just started playing with a .300 H&H in a pre-64 and so far it is working out. Recoil isn't much heavier than a .30-06, but I tend to think the '06 and .300 Win Mag are close in recoil, too, which drives my preference for .300s. My H&H is shooting OK so far.

If your gun is big enough to handle the H&H that is the better round. I have one now and have had another. I also have 4 or 5 30-06s which I really like too. I have both in pre-64s. I like the extra zing of the magnum-especially with heavier bullets. I carried my 300 on Kodiak. I never felt undergunned- maybe that would have changed had I had to face a bear charge at 10 yard but that never happened. That H&H case sure feeds nice.

Sweet !

Awesome!! What more could you ask for? Good shooting D...

Do you think that the H&H feeds smoother than the -06 in the pre-64 action?

Feeds smoother than just about any other cartridge I use..

Very nice to see that coming out of a pre-64!

And to think you tried to pawn that POS off on me!

I've shot cartridges from guns that feed poorly and finicky. The 30-06 isn't one of them. In fact, I can shoot an '06 in a 700 as fast as I can work the bolt. I don't try to feed empties. I don't understand how it would matter that empty brass feed well. Given that 30-06 causes no feeding issues, it doesn't make sense to use that as a criterion to use a 300 H&H over an '06. No offense to fans of the round. I have never felt the need to shoot one. If others have had feeding issues with 30-06 bolt guns, that is another story.

Hands down 300 H&H�its just plain cool, and dead sexy�..

And it's just as effective as a 30-06

Or more so�There was a devastatingly handsome writer that did the piece on the 300H&H for Barnes #4 Manual��

That's a telling statement:

"I don't own one, and probably wouldn't own any .300 magnum if I didn't have to for professional reasons."

Les Bowman promoted the 7mm RM because as a guide he found that many hunters did not shoot the 300 magnums well.

It is one of those inherently accurate rounds that shoot tight groups with a variety of bullets and powders. The 6.5 X 55 Swede is another.

Everybody that shoots one loves it. Takes a long action, but unless you are trying to convert a standard length Mauser, it's not an issue. As mentioned above, smooth feeding.

The .30-06 is a benchmark. Nobody can throw stones at it. Another round might be faster, another might shoot heavier bullets, the third is slower, etc. but everyone knows the .30-06 is an effective round on nearly everything that won't eat or stomp you, and has done a good job on most of them over the years.

Don't know who you're talking about,but that's a nice Gemsbok!

Typically. However, the best feeding pre 64 I've owned was a 30-06. EricM has it now. It feeds just as well as my 375 H&H and the 300 H&H (pre 64) I've shot.

Yeah, they are too old to shoot well Good for hanging on the wall though.

Different one I tried to pawn off on you. i have three but have shot one.

Feeds good enough in mine but no better than an '06.

The 30-06 is a world standard and great for most everything and I have more '06s than anything...but for the difference in recoil and given rifles I like equally, I would just as well hunt a .300--make mine an H&H, Win Mag or Weatherby.

My two slickest feeding rifles are a Higgins FN in '06 and another Higgins FN action in 375.

I'm certainly no gunwriter(in my dreams) but from what I can tell game travels at least 3-4 inches further after being hit with an '06. Easy choice imo.

With today's powders & bullets, the 300 H&H is better than ever, but I guess that is true for the '06 as well.

Both are competent & real performance is virtually indistinguishable, but whatever edge there might be in performance surely lies with the H&H, albeit, not a big edge.

And the "cool factor" surely lies with the H&H too.

MM

Love and have both. Can always load the H&H down but not the otherway. In the the real world theres no difference. The H&H can sling heavies some what faster but with turrets one can adjust at the scope. JMO
Yes the cool factor lies with the H&H.

The 300 H&H will do anything a 30-06 can and more. Does one need more? Hard to say, the 300 H&H is better with the heavier bullets. It may even be better than it's replacement the 300 WM at or above 200g. Mine is a pre-64 as well. Smoothest feeding rifle I have owned, accurate as in MOA or better with rounds it likes and will send a 180 at 3000fps or more. Not much not to like.

I have a couple of each and keep telling myself the '06 makes more sense. On the other hand, I spend more time with the H&H's - this one often leaves me shaking my head considering it's age and rather rough stock.



...and that's all I have to say about that

Did you really have to shoot your good Nosler book?? .. Awesome shooter and beautiful rifle, even though it looks like a beaver gnawed on the recoil pad...

Always planned to replace the pad but it's been like that all of the 13-14 yrs I've owned it - guess it's kind of grown on me...

When they shoot like that, it doesn't matter so much what they look like! Or what they are called. Damn.

Nice rifle and shooting JGray! What Leupold scope are you using on it?

Eric

Just a junky old Vari-X I 2-7 with friction adjustments (in windage adjustable rings, no less) I know - probably should get with the program: McSwirly, Talley LW, Leupy 6x42...

LoL. Heck, if it works why change it?!

You can save the McSwirly, Talley LW, Leupy 6x42... for the post '64s!

Eric

I'll likely never change a thing on it. I'd been looking for this exact rifle for some time, and shortly after I bought it I was hunting for the first time with a guy I'd just met. When I pulled it out, he immediately recognized it as his Dad's old rifle. I haven't been able to bring myself to do anything with it since.

JGray over the years,I have owned 3 pre 64 300H&H's. All three would shoot like yours, and our club VP pestered me to sell him mine after he saw it shot at 600 yards.

I guess Winchester barrels were generally just "good" and it's a riot they shoot so well....the bedding looks like nothing to write home about,but hey shoot nevertheless.

Don't even try to claim that; I can tell what people look like by what they write and you don't look anything like that. (You're shorter, fat, stocky, and bald BTW. )

su, I have a rifle that if you are interested, on one of my trips up north i will bring it along to show you.
Built on a remington reciever/bolt, it is a single shooter with about a one inch thick barrel. Heavy sucker. It was built for 1000yard shooting with the .300H&H which in the 50's was "the bomb". The guy who owned it before me was a nationally ranked shooter at Camp Perry.
I Have neglected getting dies, so haven't shot it. No sights on it per se, but I have the LaPalma irons to screw on it with multiple sight posts that are available for the Lapalma. It would be interesting to load some up and shoot it at 1000yards.

You should see the bedding on this one - the barrel channel has been opened up and someone attempted to "splatter" on bedding compound. It looks like it was flung on with a stick - very uneven with lots of gaps/voids. The stock has what looks like water damage in a couple places where the finish has worn through and the checkering is almost gone from wear. Other than bluing wear on the bolt handle, all of the metal is in very good shape. As rough as it is, I can't help but want to do something with it, but as good as it shoots I always back up and ask myself why.

A couple of years ago I was cruising the gun shows looking for a clean pre-64 stock to replace this one. At a Helena show, a gunsmith had a custom for sale that was made by the late Jim Lewis of Butte (formerly Idaho). She was helping his widow sell off some of his stuff after he passed and this one looks like it was almost finsished - all of the metal had been bedded to the wood (but was missing) and the stock looks like it was in the process of having the last coats of oil rubbed in prior to checkering and final assembly. She told me it was for a pre-64 so I bought it, but the action screw spacing now looks to me like it's post-64. It's inlet for a Super Grade style rear sling swivel and has a rather short forend with a nice ebony tip set up for a barrel band front swivel. She also told me he made all his own metal and this one appears to be inlet for one piece bottom metal. Now I'm not sure what to do with it - I would like to finish it out someday but it's lookiong like a bigger project than I initially thought...

Bottom stock:


Anyway, I suppose I've hijacked this thread enough

i just gave my nephew a 300 H&H built on an m1917 remington enfield.it was an old conversion that was never finished.i had it checked out and was told to go for it.he;s going to finish it and use it for his elk rifle.the 300 h&h never seemed t kick as hard as my old 721 in 06,seemed like it pushed more than kick.

I bought one with a case of ammo and a Vari X III scope for $550 about 10 years ago to build a 375 H&H on. I made the mistake of shooting it.

From a practical standpoint the 30-06 is superior in every way. It requires a standard action, not a more expensive, harder to find and longer action. The ballistic advantage of the 300 H&H is small and virtually nonexistent if Superformance loads are used in the 30-06.

The real advantage of the 30-06 is availability. If someone makes a standard length rifle, they almost certainly make it in 30-06. Rifles in 300 H&H are few indeed.

By the same token if someplace sells ammo they'll have 30-06. 300 H&H? Not likely. Midway sells 120 different 30-06 loads, 16 for 300 H&H.

Points in the 300 H&H's favor? It does feed smoothly, although nobody could claim that the 30-06 has any problem in that regard.

However, when all is said and done, I can't deny that the 300 H&H is cool.

Superformance ammo shoots like chit in my 06's. However with newer powders the diff is more than the past. 06 will do all I need of any rifle in NA , however it's not as cool as my super thirties. I do have (3) 06's for your info. Amen brother.

I've had 3 pre 64 M70's in 300 H&H,not to mention a slew of 30/06's with 22-24" barrels. The 300 H&H's would start a 180 gr bullet very easily at 3050-3090,which is about 200-250 fps better than a very warm load from a 30/06,and about what we get from most 300 Win Mags for that matter.

It's very simple to start a 165 gr bullet from a H&H at 3150;again this is at least 200 fps faster than you can move the same bullet from most 30/06 rifles as a steady diet.

Enhanced performance 30/06 ammo with 165 gr bullets gave me about 2940 with a 165 in a 22" barreled M70.

Seems to me that day in and day out a 300 H&H will give about 200-250 fps more velocity than a 30/06 with about any bullet and is superior to the 30/06 from a velocity standpoint,especially with the heavier bullets.

There really isn't any way around this. Load them both to the same pressures and the H&H wins every time because it has more powder capacity.That 200-250 fps will show up at distance if good bullets are used.

It's true the H&H needs a longer mag box than a 30/06 but any Rem 700 or post 64 M70 action is long enough to accept a 300 H&H , so the shorter action argument is sort of untrue.If you own either of those rifles you are already carrying a H&H length action.

But there is no sense arguing about popularity....the 30/06 wins hands down.

It shoots like chit in every rifle and every caliber I have had the misfortune of trying it in.

30-06 for the win!

JJHACK,, right??

The reason I like .300 H&H rifles is that it's so easy to rechamber them to .300 Weatherby.

Phillistine!

Has anyone any experience with the .300 H&H and 168 grain TTSX, good or bad?

Barnes - 165 grain - 72.5 grs H4831 - 3118 fps

Hodgdon - 165 grain - 77 grs H4831 - 3099 fps

The Poobah has a soggy turd waiting for you for that. There's a special place for folks who commit such blasphemy.

Yep. Note: the 300 Weatherby is my favorite cartridge...IN a Weatherby...

No doubt it's a good cartridge, I've played with a couple, and they've been consistently accurate. But to do the conversion is like trading in a 67 Corvette with a 427 for a mid 80's vette. The new one is faster and flashier, but utterly lacks (IMHO) the class and, dare I say, panache of the elder. I just couldn't do it.

And there's only about 120 fps difference between the .300 H&H and .300 Weatherby with 180's when both are loaded to the same pressure.

Guessing that you figure "cool factor" differently than I do.
The 30-06 has oodles more history, and is associated with more of the coolest people than any brit round can lay claim to. Only the tweed coat/bwana crowd would ever attempt to debate the point.

I currently have an H&H in captivity, and hope to hunt with it this fall. It was the rifle package that drew my attention though, and not the chambering.

30-06 vs 300 H&H
You can not use or even own a 30-06 (Military cartridge) in France, however you can own & use 300 H&H.

That's the law. As Teg Nuggent always says you can't do that in France!

Yeah, probably...........guessing you wouldn't be cool if'n you were on ice.

MM

Availability, selection and cost of ammo leads one to conclude that .30-06 or .300 WinMag should be selected. If money is no object and prestige is important then .300 H&H should be selected.

Sounds like a perfect place to avoid!

A well set up fast .30 is simply an awesome hunting rifle. By any sane standard though, the 30-06 qualifies as a fast .30
If a guy wants or needs something faster than a 30-06, the .300 Winchester is an easy choice. This is somewhat offset by some of the very cool old rifles that predate the advent of the Winnie...

Note that many of these same cool rifles were chambered in the 30-06 as well...
It's a wonder that the .300 Winchester ever got off the ground after the body blow it took in 1964...

30-06 for me. I started out with one and have come full circle. I've used a lot of other cartridges, but the good ol 06 makes the most sense..

The -06 is a great one, but given I have a '55 Model in 300H&H, no decision. 300H&H for any number of reasons. Value, FPS, accuracy, cool factor, etc. Now if I did not already have one..

Yep! love my mid fifties Sako FN 300 H&H.

300 H&H..Poster child of inefficiency, 2.8"+ hull to barely nudge out 30-06 performance..Sign me up!

Really, better check the loadings, can you get a 180g to over 3000fps safely?? The 30-06 is a great round, but it is not what a 300H&H is. Actually if you go an look at the 300H&H history it is one of the most efficient of the 30 calibers.

its a cool old cart,and i appreciate its history..But you cannot take up nearly 2.9" of real-estate for those returns and call it efficient, dont give a damn how you spin it.

Well the -06 is not exactly a SA cartridge either. Perhaps the 308.. The 300H&H is very efficient compared to the other 30 cal magnums. It does have an advantage over the standard 30-06 in the same length action. I have both.

Different perspective I suppose..To me magazine confines play a huge roll because I like VLD type bullets..To me a 30-06 makes more sense than the H&H.to me,if i was going to use up H&H type mag space it would make more sense to go with a 300wby or 300AI, or even a RUM/30-378.

Again, I have no sentimental/nostalgic reasoning in my opinion.

When I rebarreled my win pre-64 30-06 I went with a 26 3/4" barrel including brake. With the brake I can watch the bullet impact in the scope. I get 2875 FPS with Federal factory loads. I get about the same velocity with 57.5 grains of H-4350. I get 3020 FPS with 168 TSX and 59 grains of H-4350.

Not sure why I would need a heavier bullet even for Alaskan Yukon moose or large bears.

Besides that you know where you can borrow the "Get it all done" 300 WBY...

Just get a WSM, it'll do everything the H&H will do and do it in a better package.

True dat.

But if it was all about efficiency we would be putting out claymores instead of game cameras.


The 'loony' in Rifle Loony knows no bounds!

I didn't know Nick Nolte hunted. Where did you get the pic?

That's impressive performance. I've thought often that a 30-06 dedicated LR gun would work out pretty well with a 27-28" bbl, enough to get an easy 2700 with 208-215gr bullets. It was German Salazar's site that opened my eyes to the possibilities.

We often forget that it was the British and Europeans who developed most of the famous calibers specifically for hunting in the days when untold hundreds of thousands of animals were taken in the colonies.

Many, like the 300H&H and 375H&H are still recognised as the best at what they were designed for. Clean kills with little meat damage.

Other 300 mags were poor attempts to copy the H&H and marketing to the US hunter that they must be better because they made them "faster".

Unfortunately the African animals did not have the benefit of the American education system and never learned to read ballistics charts and don't understand that more "speed" and "energy" are needed to kill.

American game animals on the other hand must understand it or there wouldn't be so many hunters there with Ultra mags, Weatherbys, etc.These hunters are quite easy to spot at SCI conventions as they usually have a scar over one eyebrow and a nervous "wink" - and are always "ballistics experts".


Those old greats have improved with modern powders, bullet construction, and optics - but they have yet to be beaten.

America can take credit for the 30-06 and maybe should have stopped there.

Somehow they got confused between "hunting" and "varmit shooting" at 300+yds with high powered scopes high speed calibers and bullets meant to destroy the intended target as it wasn't edible anyway.

The mauser 7mmX57 was also a great African classic with books written about it. H&H tried to get into that huge market by "improving on it".

The 275H&H was introduced by Holland&Holland in 1912 using the 7mm bullet with a shorter version of the belted case of the 375H&H mag introduced the same year as the .375 Belted Rimless Nitro-Express.

The .375 H&H was intended for dangerous African game animals, while the .275 H&H was intended for longer range shooting of African antelope and Red Stag in the highlands of Scotland.

Western Cartiidge Company offered USA loadings of the .275 H&H Magnum in 1925 with the .300 H&H and the .375 H&H. The .275 H&H was omitted when Winchester started chambering their Model 70 rifle for the other two in 1937.

The .275 H&H offered little ballistic advantage over the 270. U.S. ammunition production ceased during 1939 and it died - only to be ressurected as the wildcat 7X61 Sharp & Hart in 1953 and finally the 7mm Remington Magnum in 1962.

Over the years We have had safari clients with every conceivable magnum you can imagine including new calibers sent here with outdoor writers to "test" them in Africa. most were disappointing and some were disasters.

I'm not sure why, I started with hundred year old calibers but I do know the reason I still have them is because they have never failed me, I am confident shooting them, and I have been extremely disappointed with with the newer, faster, calibers. I have had the opportunity test both old and new. I love the new rifles being built today - but I'll stick with my "old" proven calibers.

One day hunters might stop listening to the hype and and choose calibers based on what really works - but I may not live long enough to see it.

Ah, yes...
good morning, Bwana. Groovin' on the tweed coat...

Dis one?


Handsome Devil aint he?


Its a curse more than a blessing.......

Square jaw; chiseled features - Marlboro Man. Those gemsbok are really good table fare aren't they.

To the OP, I worked with the 300 Win Mag a lot in the eighties. Enough to decide I was going to by-pass the 300s completely and go right to the 338/340s and never regretted that.

My over/ under is a 375 and a 30/06.

I've owned several turdy aught six's over my not so many years in various versions; Bolt actions, semi-autos, & pump actions but only hunted with one. Yup an old Remington pump that was handed down from my uncle. It shot a � MOA of a house but did manage to maim & mutilate my first deer in the North woods of Maine at the age of 16. But somewhere a long the way, probably after fulfilling my military contract with the US Marine Corps, I decided I no longer liked cartridges that were/are designed by people to kill other people. If you total up how many people have been killed by the 30-06 & how many animals have been killed with the same cartridge it might be a push these days. So the history of the 06 is something that I prefer not to be associated with unless I decide I'm tired of all the stupid people in the world and it becomes legal to hunt said folks.
Now on the other hand you have a 375 H&H that was design to be used in double rifles & bolt action rifles for killing game animals. Then around 1924 or so the Holland and Holland company neck the 375 cartridge down to .30 caliber & produced the 300 H&H, for hunting/killing game.
To my knowledge at no time was the H&H cartridges designed to kill people, never been put in a machine gun etcetera. It's whole concept was and has been to produce a excellent HUNTING cartridge. And I personally think that Holland & Holland did a fine job in doing so.

If this means I also need to purchase tweed so be it. But my choice is for the 300H&H. It will do everything better than the 06, period.

I sold all my 338-06's and was going to build another but decided to go with a 30 caliber of some type.

I had it narrowed dowan to 30-06, 300 Win Mag, and 300 H&H. I certainly could have thrown all three in a hat, picked one, and be satisfied.

Action was/is a 70 classic, so it can easily handle all three.

I chose the 300 H&H. Why?

I plan on loading 200gr bullets to replace my 338-06's. The extra powder capacity certainly isn't going to hurt. If I do not like the 200's, I am certain a 180gr of some flavor will work.

If I want a 30-06, I am sure I can dump a little less powder in the case to achieve said ballistics.

Whatever happened to old "Meat in the Pot"?

Funny considering France wouldn't exist if it wasn't for the '06 (a least in part).

Every firearm in existence owes that existence to military purpose. To later claim some calibers are 'military' and others are 'sporting' is silly to me. It is the user that determines the purpose of his tool. Not all guns are weapons, just as not all rocks are weapons. Some rocks are put into walls with mortar and become houses. Some cartridges built nations through bloodshed. Still, it is the nut behind the bolt, not the headstamp on the cartridge, that creates purpose.

I just returned from an elk hunt and took two guns with me.......a M-70 in .30-06 and a M-721 in .300 H&H.

The .300 H&H stayed in the cabin all season as a back up....it's extra velocity wasn't enough to overcome the weight difference of the M-70 featherweight.

300 H&H ammo comes with little white flags you hand out to the game so they can just surrender when they see what you are using

Midway sell the white flags? Mine only comes with modern bullets and powder and is comparable to any 300 mag in production today performance wise. No tweed no excuses. LOL

Don't need any "white flags" with an ought six.

Give me one example where a double rifle was used by any countries military?

I don't have one, WBill. I was referring to gun powder propelling a projectile. And then putting the powder and bullet into a case that has priming. The whole progression and evolution of firearms has been for military purpose first, if in idea inception if not in practice. I don't know of any examples, but I am sure that a double rifle has been used to military purpose at some point in history.

Is a double somehow untainted? Are there cartridges that are untainted, while others are bathed in the blood of millions? Firearms are tools. Their first use was military in nature. As I said, the distinction lies within the individual holding the gun, not the inherent nature of the gun. That is all propaganda, like the term 'assault rifle'. Only humans have motives. Tools are just collections of atoms.

My 06's have no white flags either.

That is because the 30-06 is so anemic that it gives the animals a fair chance. The H&H is so potent that they know they can't get away and just have to surrender

Sounds more like the H&H needs a gimmicky white flag.

The .30 Holland is neither terribly efficient nor overly potent.
It is a cool old cartridge that was designed to give good game performance and maintain low chamber pressures and slick operation in about any conditions.

It succeeded...

With the use of smokeless powder it became something more, and thus started the era of high performance magnum rifles. With todays rifles and cartridges, it is easy to better the performance of the H&H cartridge.
But that don't make it a bad choice...

Rifle shooting on game has evolved until many question the need for pushing heavy bullets at high speed. So be it.
Some will always appreciate the capability to do so...

Think i'll go load up some 194 Matrix and see what the old new super thirty will do tomorrow. Throw in some 208 A-Max's and Berger 210 vlds while at the bench. I'll leave the tweed at home.

The more I read your notes, the more I like your responses. Nothing like a dude who has been there and done that. Nice post.

I've been playing with 180 BTs in mine...