I was reminded a while back of a story told, and claim made by my uncle and his good friend when I was a child and they were in their late 20's, were very much outdoorsmen, and heavy drinkers. One of them got a 220 Swift, and then proceeded to shoot it at everything he could, extolling its miraculous powers. This went on for years, but one claim stands out: a one-shot kill on a bull elk at 700 yds. That is the story that they spread, that the Swift dropped the elk like lightning at a paced off 700yds. 50 gr factory ammo was used, Remington, IIRC.
There you go. I think about that story once a week or so, and chuckle. What do you have that beats it for outlandish BS?
Before laser range-finders, in probably 80% of the stories of long shots on Montana big game the range was 700 yards, and the .22-250 ranked near the head of the cartridges involved.
Haven't heard nearly so many of those stories since LRF's appeared.
A 'customer' once told me of his custom 1886 winchester in 45-70�it would shoot 4inch groups at 1100 yards ( I don't know why it wasn't the customary 1000 yards , but I digress�) When asked by my compatriot if he was shooting black powder in it, he retorted " No, Im using that new white powder�"
Yes, we know what you are putting up your nose, but were curious as to what you used in the gun�.
Just had a lad on a caribou hunt a couple days ago saying he was passing on 1000 yard shots with his 338WM... Only thing was the longest range you could see was under 400. The LRF really changed his mind about how far away stuff really is...
Hey my neighbors kid brought over his new Weenchester 223 WSSM and told me he could shoot a jackrabbit in the head offhand at 600 yds with it. I asked him to hand it to me. Nice looking wood and blued steel....did I mention I was washing my muddy truck at the time and had grimy, sandy soap covered hands. I looked that rifle over real good and handed it back to him.
Had a fellow come in to the gun shop I worked many years ago who, after hearing a customer and me discussing the unlikeliness of one braggart's 800 yard coyote shot, interjected, "Well me and my brother, we regularrrrly shoot our deer in the head at a thooooousand yards." I pulled out a $100 bill, put on the counter and told him I'd put up one of those for every shot he could put in a bushel basket at that distance if he'd put the same for every shot that failed to land in the basket.
He replied, "Now sir I just ain't a bettin' man, but ifn you know yer rifle you kin do it." I responded that we could take the money off the table and that I'd happily pay someone to measure off and certify 1000 yards, but I'd really like to see the shooter who could hit basically a grapefruit regularly at that distance with a factory rifle, or even a custom one for that matter.
He declined to demonstrate his skill. I chalked it up to another of those blowhards who couldn't judge 100 yards let alone 1000. I put him in the same category as the guy who tried to convince me of his 500 yard kill on a huge bull elk with an SKS and the old 130 grain hollow point ammo. Or the gentleman who claimed he made a kill on an elk at 800 yards with his 30-06 and only had to hold 8" over its back. Hmm, must be using a 650 yard zero.
Two immediately come to mind, one long ago, the other last week in San Diego;
Years ago I worked with a guy who claimed his Dad was the Marshal in Casper, WY. Said his Dad was ambushed in front of a bar one night by a bad guy carrying a 12 ga shotgun loaded with slugs. Said bad guy shot his Dad in the middle of the back from about ten yards, but the sheepskin coat his Dad wore stopped the slug. His Dad whirled around (his words) and dropped the bad guy with one shot from the hip with his .38-40 Colt Peacemaker.
Last week I was standing in a bar in the Gaslamp District of San Diego and a guy standing next to me started talking about guns and how a .45ACP would instantly drop an assailant just by shooting him in the leg. Said assailant would be completely out of the fight. It was too much gun for the guy in the bar, that's why he carried his 9mm Makarov that had been bored out to .380. It always ended the fight with just one shot without the extreme damage that the .45 caused.
After 20 years behind the gun counter, Ive got a million of them�.
After about 30yrs on the other side of the counter, I have a few myself...
No offense, wish I could find a guy behind the counter around here that had a little knowledge but wasn't a total prick! Either idiots or know-it-all [bleep] in 98% of my experiences.
I don't know if mine will beat yours but years ago, pre LRF, my bud and I were hunting elk in the Big Horns. One evening we had supper in some inn and my bud who can engage a turnip in conversation started up with a young local who in the course of a steak and a beer declared he could hit a running deer in the head at eight hundred yards with his '06. Pffft. Outside of that he was a friendly, engaging young fellow.
The next day, our last, we met him off a road again and invited him for lunch on a rocky outcropping over looking an open drainage. At the bottom was a boulder the size of a Volkswagen Bug. A friendly challenge broke out to hit the top edge of the big rock. His shots hit several feet in front of the grey boulder. We stepped it off at three hundred sixty some yards.
Sometimes law enforcement officers have some interesting takes on ballistics.
I used to go in weekly for allergy shots to an allergy clinic. The receptionist was married with a 12 year old son. The dad and kid were deer hunting and puled the standard stupid fence trick which ended up with dad taking a bullet through the right cheek of the butt, fortunately not striking any bone, but at 10 feet still a gruesome wound. The receptionist was telling me this story and that the investigating officer told her he was lucky it was so close because the bullet hadn't had a chance to get to its full velocity yet. Apparently he felt the dad would have been more severely injured had he been 200 yards away when that bullet had a chance to get a full head of steam. And they gave him a badge and a gun.
A fella told me he's getting 3300 fps 180 sp Remington 3006 3x9x40 Nikon hits a pop can every shot at 700 as fast as he can cycle the bolt and reload 22in. Pencil barrel....
that's why he carried his 9mm Makarov that had been bored out to .380. It always ended the fight with just one shot without the extreme damage that the .45 caused.
One guy, Mr. .280 had a magical rifle that shot like normal until in got out to 200 yards, then it shot"absolutely flat" Presumably out to infinity�
The only other one like that was a Sharps 50 cal. that likewise shot " absolutely flat out to a mile�" I guess it started to drop after that because it was an older gun�I looked that guy deadpan in the eye and declared " I have GOT to get one of those!"
my favorite was someone telling me the entire brass case exited the barrel and was intentionally off balance so it would tumble and do more damage. even used a cartridge to illustrate. wow.
Had an I&E Foreman tell us the other day that he has a .308 that he can do a 5 shot group into a quarter at 2,000 yards. But it gets better. He then went on to tell us that he bought this .22 long rifle from a pawn shop that was specifically built for the boy scouts that will put 3 shots into the same hole at 1,000 yards but it will only do it with subsonics. After that I couldn't hold back anymore and told him he was full of schit.
Sammo, I have seen a couple 30 inchers and my wife got one but I had a guy tell me one day of passing up bull elk because they didn't look big enough, and he knew because he had 'lots' of bulls at home with 65 inch main beams�
Ive killed a couple big ones, so I thought Id better look that up�couldn't find a 65 inch main beam in my edition of B&C�..strange�.
A friend worked at a gun and gear store that a fellow bought his first semi auto 30-06. He'd never been around one and asked (axed), how does it work? My friend said, it's gas operated, to which the fellow 'axed' , "where do you put the gas in?
My Grandfather and his brother ran into a good bull elk on the way out of the timber with a load of logs pulled by a team of horses one fall. My Grandfather was packing a 22 Savage Highpower, and his brother a Pre 64 Model 70 270 Winchester. They knew he was a long ways off and walked a couple of shots onto him. The 22 Highpower killed him after my Grandpa heard his brothers bullet strike and saw the bull shake his head. He made the correction based on that and hit him in the lungs. The Elk didn't go far.
Now, they never said how far it was but we know the location and have been back to laser the range it and it was a bit over 650 yds. They weren't interested in the horns and they spent a considerable amount of time outside and then in the loft of an old barn. Just recently my cousin restored the antlers and mounted the head. He left the hole in the horn as a reminder of the story.
I was looking at guns several years ago in a department store. They had just gotten in some newly-introduced Weatherby Ultra Lightweights. They had a .270 and a .30-06 side by side. I asked to look at the .30-06 and noticed the price tag in the trigger guard said $575, while the price tag on the .270 was $1175. I actually got into an argument with the dumbazz over the difference. He insisted that the .270 was the new Ultra Lightweight while the -06 was "just a Mark V."
So I bought the "just a Mark V." When they scanned it at the register it beeped $1175. Nope, it's $575, just look at the price tag.
Had a friend back in high school who was well known for telling tall tales. So one day he was telling us how he had gone hunting with a couple of guys whom we all hung around together and had decided to go deer hunting. The one with the tall tales proceeded to say how he had forgotten his gun so he was left back at the camp site and saw there was a dirt bike in camp. So he decided to take it out for a spin and saw a hammer laying around and had seen a deer close to camp. So he went to chase it on the dirt bike and had hit the deer on the head when he got close to it. We all started laughing and telling him how full of chit he was. Still laugh at that one.
I was looking at guns several years ago in a department store. They had just gotten in some newly-introduced Weatherby Ultra Lightweights. They had a .270 and a .30-06 side by side. I asked to look at the .30-06 and noticed the price tag in the trigger guard said $575, while the price tag on the .270 was $1175. I actually got into an argument with the dumbazz over the difference. He insisted that the .270 was the new Ultra Lightweight while the -06 was "just a Mark V."
So I bought the "just a Mark V." When they scanned it at the register it beeped $1175. Nope, it's $575, just look at the price tag.
I went home with the Mark V and he got fired.
P
Dammit! Where is a dumbass like that when I've been looking at guns?! Nice rifle, and well, congratulations on the 50% discount.
Watched a guy behind the counter telling about a bullet that he designed and made for his 50bmg. The bullet had a hole all the way through the middle, which accounted for drastic improvements in BC. He didn't explain how he maintained chamber pressure with a hole down the middle of the bullet, and he had a pretty big audience, so I just left.
After 20 years behind the gun counter, Ive got a million of them�.
After about 30yrs on the other side of the counter, I have a few myself...
No offense, wish I could find a guy behind the counter around here that had a little knowledge but wasn't a total prick! Either idiots or know-it-all [bleep] in 98% of my experiences.
My former boss spewed so much sh*t from his mouth that I'm sure his arsehole was jealous. I remember him telling a tale of shooting a flying duck out of the air with a .264 Winchester. Naturally he shot it in the head to save the meat. I was with him on a dog drive once and witnessed him make a rather lengthy shot on a running doe with a 2 3/4" load of 0 buck. It was honestly probably close to 75 yards. Too far for the average buckshot slinger but I saw it. When we skinned the deer, we found one pellet in the carcass, right through the heart. TOTAL luck and we all knew it, except him. He proclaimed that he intended to heart shoot the deer (with 1 out of 12 pellets??), and every time he told the tale afterwards, the range increased. I think the last time I heard it, it was 200 yards....
A friend worked at a gun and gear store that a fellow bought his first semi auto 30-06. He'd never been around one and asked (axed), how does it work? My friend said, it's gas operated, to which the fellow 'axed' , "where do you put the gas in?
TRUE!
I believe it because I also had a guy ask if the Remington 1100 ran on unleaded and also asked where to insert it.
HuntnShoot: About 45 years ago I was told, by an older gentleman, that he sighted in his Winchester Model 94 Rifle in caliber 30/30 Winchester every year, by throwing empty beer bottles into the air and shooting at them!!! This was so "wrong" on so many levels! Even back then I was dumbfounded by his incrdible contention! I think of it now and then when ever I see someone carrying a Model 94 and get a grin out of the memory! Hold into the wind VarmintGuy
And we've got the same dumbazz in our office telling the same stories again this year about killing trotting coyotes at 650 yards with his Winchester Lever Action Semi-Automatic in 7 Mag. Oh, I almost forgot - it's got a 36" bull barrel and a custom made muzzle brake with all the ports pointing up to keep the barrel down when he fires it. And he got tired of the lever getting in his way, so he had it removed and now it's just got an op-rod on the side.
Had a counter monkey tell me once that the 7-08 was a "7mm Rem Mag, necked DOWN to .308 and would knock an elk on its ass at 1000 yards".
I think that's the worst one I've ever hear.
I sit here laughin' at all of these posts...but Teal I keep coming back to yours!!!! I believe there are times in our lives where a real authenticated, old fashion Bitch Slapping should be dealt to another. Yet outside of that, if you ever see that 'tard again, ask him from me, where I could score some belted 7-08, 7 mag necked DOWN .308 brass?!?!
A fella was inquiring about a 280 a had for sale. He asked me what caliber a 280 was. I told him 7mm and he says, so its bigger that a 30-06? Huh?
Heard a man ask a gun store employee for a box of 120gr .273's. Pretty close I suppose.
My favorite was the guy who sold his 300 win mag because he never recovered a deer he shot with it. Claimed the bullet out of a magnum "is going to fast to expand". Wow a physics expert...
Once had a guy tell me that it got so cold in Alaska that you could put a pot of boiling water outside in the cold and the boiling water would freeze so fast that the water would be steaming.
Once had a guy tell me that it got so cold in Alaska that you could put a pot of boiling water outside in the cold and the boiling water would freeze so fast that the water would be steaming.
Hey, that's my line, almost. I use a similar one frequently in the winter, "I stepped outside with a cup of coffee and it froze so fast the ice was still warm."
I listened to a guy a few months ago regaling the counter leaners at a local shop about how he only uses a 20 gauge for birds, "cause it don't hurt the dog like the 12 gauge does."
I was reminded a while back of a story told, and claim made by my uncle and his good friend when I was a child and they were in their late 20's, were very much outdoorsmen, and heavy drinkers. One of them got a 220 Swift, and then proceeded to shoot it at everything he could, extolling its miraculous powers. This went on for years, but one claim stands out: a one-shot kill on a bull elk at 700 yds. That is the story that they spread, that the Swift dropped the elk like lightning at a paced off 700yds. 50 gr factory ammo was used, Remington, IIRC.
There you go. I think about that story once a week or so, and chuckle. What do you have that beats it for outlandish BS?
can't "out-do" your story, but here's a tale.
about 10 years ago there was a guy at work who could tell some really tall tales--the sad part is, he actually believed they were true.
one such tale he told us guys on the jobsite:
"back in the days when i did security work, i caught a guy trying to steal some stuff. i went to put the cuffs on him, but just couldn't get the the bracelets on--he put up a real fight. finally, after a lengthy struggle, i gave up on the cuffs and reached into my pocket and pulled out a length of piano wire. i took the wire and looped it around his junk, pulled it up around his backside and on up around his neck, and man he began to cooperate just real quick like--and i shoulda done it sooner..."
now let's see--you can't get the cuffs on his exposed wrists, so you somehow manage to get a loop of piano wire around "items" that are covered by clothing. yeah sure...
we were all laughing so hard, it was impossible to work.
"wait until i tell ya bout the time i picked up a v8 engine block and set it into a truck bed--all by myself--cuz the other guy who was supposed to help never showed up..."
"or when i was Ken Norton's sparring partner..."
"or the time i ruptured a disc and it sounded like an ought six going off..."
my good buddy, who I have known since elementary school, claims to have dropped a big buck at 450 yards with a stock M1 Carbine with hot reloads. maybe it is a good thing that the cops confiscated his carbine due to a domestic abuse complaint. I would hate to see the condition of his carbine firing a steady diet of hot reloads.
story #2: I had a customer come into my dads shop and bought a box of ammo. he came back later and asked for ammo "one size up" as the ammo he just bought did not fit. it turns out that he had a sporterized 6.5 mm Japanese rifle. I must have been about 12 at the time - quite a long time ago. 6.5 ammo wasn't readily available back then.
Last year a fellow guest hunter at a deer camp showed me his allegedly AI'd 300 RUM. He told me of the marvelous velocities he was getting, something like 4000 fps with 180s. I asked to see a piece of fireformed brass and he didn't have any on him. When I asked about load data he said he didn't load any yet. So I had to ask where the velocity numbers came from. According to him when the charge first ignites it generates enough pressure to form the brass to the vastly improved AI configuration. Then the remainder of the charge burns so much more efficiently that it gives the major velocity boost.
Fellow I used to work with and I got to talking about hunting once and he told me, dead serious, about how he used his .30/30 to kill a 600 lb. "whitetail muley doe".
Years ago when I worked part-time in a local gun shop we were constantly regaled with stories of 700 and sometimes 1000 yard shots on deer. Range finders were just beginning to appear at the time and we used the one on display in the shop to range the flagpole at the college across the highway. If memory serves correct it was around 350 yards. We would ask the story tellers to estimate the range and very seldom was it within 300 yards of being correct.
What about the 45 slugs from hundreds of yards away on re-entry... much less the 44 slugs.
I dont' recall having shot my 44s at anything much beyond 400 or so yards down at the river. But it was fun plinking and seeing which tree top you had to aim at to hit a sandbar etc....
Elmer says he had witnesses and I saw Bob Munden recreate the shot, on a not so running target�so yeah, its possible, but so is a matter/anti-matter reactor�.
Where we live during the week, there are few people that hunt, and few know the outdoors beyond the parking lot at the mall and the paved trails at the county park. So the majority of my tales are reverse tall stories.
Oh sure, I had a phone repairman once tell me he'd shot an elk so close that the bullet did not have time to expand. He cleaned it with his special custom Browning knife that he paid $300 for. I had a similar knife I'd paid $10 for at the last gun show.
However, the bulk are reverse tall tales. That is, you give an honest account of something mundane and folks think you're telling a whopper.
My son had a heck of a time getting the kids at school to believe he'd shot his first deer. It was a doe, shot at 10 yards with a 30-30. He showed them a picture. His friends thought it was photoshopped. A couple years later he shot a nice buck. No one would believe him. This past year, he killed a buck and had to show his friends a pic of himself with the Mosin Nagant at age 8 to get them to believe it was HIS rifle.
He finally found a friend whose father had taken him deer hunting, but he couldn't believe my son had actually shot the deer with a rifle, because Ohio only allowed shotguns. We hunt in Kentucky
He brought a turkey target to school to show his friends the tight grouping of his choke. His friends thought he was a bad shot, because there were so many holes and so few were in the bullseye. He tried to explain shotguns, and somebody told him he was lying.
The most egregious story comes from a few years ago. Angus was next door, talking to the neighbor girl. All of a sudden, she got a sick look on her face and ran inside. Angus decided something was wrong and came back home.
He'd just started explaining when the doorbell rang. It was the girl's father. He was agitated. He wouldn't come in the house, he was angry and fearful because Angus had told his daughter that he had a .22. Before we go any further into the story, let me just mention that the neighbors are Jewish and I'm 3rd-gen German American. I'm not being hateful; it is relevant to the story.
"Yes," I replied. "He does. Technically, it is mine. He cannot legally own a firearm until he's 18."
I then got a raft of questions: Does he have access to the firearm? Does he have access to the ammo?
I cut the guy off and told him I was an NRA Life Member and kept the firearms according to NRA recommendations, and I'd be happy to give him a pamphlet on how to keep firearms with children in the house and -
"NO." he replied. "I just want your word that your son does not have access to guns."
I assured him we kept the guns safe and that we only shot them at the farm. He skulked off. We packed up and headed to the farm for the weekend.
Sunday, after our return, a very haggard and pale version of the neighbor returned to the front door.
"Yes?"
"Look, you gotta help me. My wife has been all over me. I haven't slept all weekend. I just need your assurance, man-to-man, that your son does not have unfettered access to firearms.
"Yes, that is true. If you like I can send along that pamphlet I mentioned. The NRA is a great source of info-"
"No, that will be enough." He said. "My wife is just very upset and worried."
"About what?"
"About all the guns." replied the neighbor. "She worried that-"
I'd had enough. "Look Dave," I said. "I'll tell you the problem here. The problem is that somebody thinks of us as GERMANS. And they have a real big stinking problem with the idea of GERMANS having GUNS. I get the picture, really clear. "
"NO! That's not it at all."
". . .and you can tell your wife that, as far as I am concerned, I am getting rather annoyed at the idea that someone would be so worried about a GERMAN having a gun. I would have thought we would have all grown past that by now."
I shut the door and we did not talk for the better part of a year.
There you go. I think about that story once a week or so, and chuckle. What do you have that beats it for outlandish BS?
Ran across some RBCD's up in the NF in VA one time. RBCDs = road-bound coffee drinkers.
Guy told me that now that it was snowing, he was sure to get his buck. I asked him why that was, and he said he could just drive the roads and see the deer standing out against the white mountainside, and hit 'em every time. So I said, is that so, and he said, yep, a few years back he'd shot one at 350 yards up on the mountain. So I asked what he was shooting.
Sam, I don't know didly about posting photos and really don't care about learning, however, send me your cell phone number and I'll text you a picture. Not a live one, but one on my wall.
Shaman, those are sad stories. It bothers me that your neighbors have somehow espoused a belief that guns are and were the danger, along with several other irrational and ignorant beliefs. And what is happening in our culture that fear or disbelief are the primary responses?
I knew a guy who liked to brag about the 700 yard running shot he made on a whitetail with his 25-06. From one end of the field all the way to the other. I drove out to see the field in question. It was 300 yards long at best!
Cookie bumps into them all the time. I'm out busting my ass and packing a rifle in the northern extreme of the state for the same interval, and do you think I can find one?
No!
Bumped into a guy that had just taken a buck through the neck at 600 with his 264 Win Mag. Held dead on.
Over the years from prominent ridges, I've actually seen about 100 rds fired at running bucks at 600+ yds. Not seen one connect yet.
Great fun thread. What strikes me is that I can't recall very many such tall tales during my 50 years of shooting. One does stand out though. Old Idaho potato farmer transplant to California once told me that the .22 Hornet was so powerful that it could shoot clear through a railroad track. I supposed he meant the web. I just nodded and went on to deliver the news papers hanging on my handlebars. Imagine taking out a railroad train with a .22 Hornet, maybe the Pentagon chose the wrong .22 cartridge.
Shaman, those are sad stories. It bothers me that your neighbors have somehow espoused a belief that guns are and were the danger, along with several other irrational and ignorant beliefs. And what is happening in our culture that fear or disbelief are the primary responses?
Well, the problem is that city folks just have a completely unrealistic view of the world. My mom used to talk about friends she had in Chicago back in the 30's that thought milk came from the milkman. It's all the same thing.
That's a big part of the reason why my sons had a farm to go to on the weekends instead of going to the mall between soccer matches. They knew where their meat came from.
Ha! Let me get off the soapbox. This was supposed to be a fun thread.
While I was at lunch, I was trying to think of other wild ones I'd heard. In the case of deer hunting, I started out my career thinking (as I had been schooled by my mentors) that bucks used their antlers to prod does out in front of them to act as scouts. I suppose in back-handed way that's sort of what you see during the chase-phase of the rut, but the motivations are all screwed up. As a result I spent the first few years of deer hunting with great shots on legal doe, but always holding off, knowing with certainty that The Big One was just a few yards behind.
Then there was the one I learned that turkeys always head to water after flydown. I wrecked the first dozen years of my turkey hunting positioning myself between the roost and a the nearest source of water. It has been only in the past few years that I discovered where turkeys really go after flydown:
Lastly, I leave you with the wisdom of my mentor and departed friend, Buddy Joe Taylor. Joe was the local folklorist and radio personality back where KYHillChick grew up down on the KY/TN border. He was known to the locals as Professor Nitwit. It Outta be Surefire.
My dad, who was born in 1917, used to tell a story of how, as a 10 year old boy, was just dying to shoot one of the ducks he'd seen at the pond past the tree line behind the house. So he "borrowed" his dad's 10-gauge double-barrel, early one morning, and snuck out of the house before first light, so he'd be ready for them when they came in.
He found a good hiding place in the bushes near the pond but began to doze while waiting in the near dark. Suddenly he was awakened by all the quacking as the ducks circled for a landing. Somewhat taken by surprise, he swung the big gun up but, because of its weight, and his excitement, fired a little low, both barrels.
He said he didn't get 1 duck. But came home with a bushel of ducks' feet.
Well, there's a lot stuff posted here that fits the BS category. I keep this plugged into my computer at all times.
I'll give you an example.
At the Campfire With Bill and Joe- Part One
Whenever Bill, Joe and I go hunting, the best part of the day starts after we have supper. We sit around the campfire, have a few drinks and shoot the breeze. Away from our normal lives, it�s great to relax in the company of friends.
What I did on our last trip was record part of the first night�s campfire chat. This was last fall; we were moose hunting at Lewzer�s Pass in Northern Ontario, just a few miles from Mouche Noir. I transcribed part of what was said, so that you could experience the fun. I�m an avid reader and usually get the ball rolling.
"Have any of you guys read this? It's from the latest edition of Mighty Guns Monthly magazine. Some guy in Arizona has come out with a 75 calibre cartridge based on the 50BMG. He calls it the 75 Slammer..."
"Wow! That's amazing Steve! What's it like to shoot?" Joe loved to hear about new rifles and cartridges.
"It doesn't say, Joe. Apparently the guy is too chicken to try it."
Bill chimed in. "Wait a minute, Steve. How can you make a 75 calibre cartridge from a 50BMG case? The bullet ain't gonna fit! And why do you buy that magazine anyways? Half the stories are full of crap. The other half wanna sell you stuff you won't ever use."
As Bill talked, you could see the disappointment in Joe�s face. Since grade school, Bill always was the doubting Thomas of the group. Even though he�d never seen one, Joe tried to explain to him how the Slammer worked.
"The 50 BMG is a bottlenecked case right? They just get rid of the bottleneck, that's all. Why do you always have to run things down, Bill?"
"'Cause it ain't gonna work, that's why. Okay, so you end up with a straight walled case, right? Where is it gonna headspace off of? 45/70s and 303s headspace off the rim 'cause it sticks out. The 50BMG is a rimless case. Don't you get it? They're pullin' your leg!"
I had to admit that what Bill said made sense. Joe grabbed the magazine and scanned the page. After a few seconds he said,
"Yeah? Well it says right here that they have some rifles already made up and they got pictures too. Right underneath it says, 'NEXT MONTH, RANGE RESULTS WITH PICTURES!'"
It was time for me to shut up and watch the fun. Bill and Joe could go on for hours. Bill started again.
"Okay then, I'll try this another way. Suppose a guy DID have a 75 calibre rifle. What the heck are you going to use it for?"
"African game. Hello! See Bill, writers have been writing about magnums for a while now. Remember when all they wrote about was them Super Short and Ultra rifles? I guess the Slammer's designer figured that heavy and slow bullets are about to come back in style again. He wanted to be the first guy to come up with a workable cartridge."
"Workable? Are you nuts!?! How much does the bullet weigh?"
"It says 2000 grains..."
"Well, that makes sense then doesn't it? That's manageable. That's a reasonable weight. Oh brother! Are they spitzers? Okay. I must have misunderstood. That should rocket successfully to the top so to speak..."
"Bill, you just don't get it. This rifle ain't made for us regular guys. Well, not exactly. A big name gunsmith like Charles Sisque builds one out of fancy wood and gives it away to a famous writer like Jon Barsnett. Them are the ones worth $5000 or more okay? Then, some photographer takes pictures and Barsnett comes up with a story that we're supposed to believe. After, a few of us write the editor and either complain or praise the guy or the article. That's how things work in the publishing industry. Ain't you been to that website, 24 hour CampFryer?"
"No, and I don't intend to. The internet is full of weirdoes. Is that supposed to be a hunting site?"
"Yes. And the guys there ain't weirdoes. They even got real, verified gun writers that post in the "Gut the Gunwriter" forum. It's moderated though, so you can't give some famous person a blast and expect it will stand. The moderator is a doctor."
"So, you mean guys like Jon Barsnett or Gregg Barrington go there?"
"Barsnett does, but Barrington doesn't. He's too busy flying planes for the Air Force. Steve Zapperton posts there though. They discuss all sorts of neat things..."
"Like what?"
"Well, like the atmospherical air affects of the air on bullets in the air and stuff..."
"So you mean it's stuff that you either don't understand or don't care about because you only hunt with a 30/30?"
"I guess...but it's still neat to read! One time they had a discussion about the influence of space radiation on a spinning body in the atmosphere.�
Bill just sat there looking like a deer caught in the headlights of a pickup. I guess he was either amazed or confused. It didn�t seem like Joe noticed though. He just kept on talking.
�Why are you givin' me that dumb look, Bill? Okay, so you may not understand about all that, but there are some of us guys that do. Did you know that gamma rays can cause instability in copperized bullets in a dibilitated ionasphere? Since you use them Burns Copperized Hex Bullets so much, I'd think that would interest you."
"No, it don't. Do they talk about animals?"
"Heck yeah! There was a thread on Bigfoot in Montana and another on how to properly butcher buffalo wings..."
"Buffalo wings? Bigfoot? Are you nuts? Buffaloes don�t have wings! And everybody knows that there ain�t no such thing as Bigfoot! I�m sorry Joe, but these people sound a little loony to me..."
"Bill, just because you went night school does not mean you know everything. I can see you ain't eaten at Kernel Sandy's. Them wings come prepared with three different sauces. It's against the law to falsely advertise a product. I think it's one of them FDA things."
"The Food and Drug Administration?"
"No, the Franchise Dishonesty Act. I'm pretty sure anyway. Since I'm not in the business, I only read about it the papers..."
�You�re just talkin� stupid, Joe! The Franchise Dishonesty Act? Am I supposed to believe you? Besides, they must talk about other important things. You say they�re writers?�
�Yes Bill. One of the fishin� writers talked about red wigglers. The story was so good, I copied it down!� Joe dug through his duffle bag and pulled out a bunch of wrinkled up paper. �Here Bill. Read it.�
This was what it said.
Red Wigglers by Fred Fisher
Let's take a minute to praise this extremely underrated worm.
There's a bunch of things that you just have to love about red wigglers. They make great bait, you can eat them and they make super party favours! Wrap them in plastic bags and give them out for Halloween. Use food coloring and dye them to make attractive decorations for otherwise blah food like liver or eggs. People on a diet and diabetics will appreciate the protein and lack of carbohydrates!
Their distinct appearance and flavor means that they can be used in a variety of drinks, as a garnish or as tasty hors d'oeuvres. Cooked or raw!
And, in one of the most famous cases of survival ever, a family of twelve from Tennessee survived for 16 years on a steady diet of red wigglers and white lightning. They discovered the benefits of the worm while crawling around on the ground after drinking the white lightning!
Given the quality of many of our fish species in this modern world, it can be argued that we're better off chowing down on a couple dozen red wigglers and steer clear of the fish.
And again, despite what others might say about outdoor plumbing, an infinite supply of worms is guaranteed if you start a worm farm around the outhouse. I've been screaming this for years. It seems that people are beginning to listen - finally!
Lastly, a small comment about dried worms. They are better for you than potato chips and are just as crunchy. Salted, they make a refreshing change to Cheezie Doodles or pretzels. With the water removed, they will keep for years. This is something that survivalists can really appreciate.
Next time you hold a red wiggler, remember to treat it with the respect it deserves.
---
"That�s the dumbest thing I ever read, Joe. I don�t think Fred Fisher is firin' on all cylinders! Let's get back to them bullets. The air bullets. If it's a huntin' forum, why do they waste their time talkin' about science stuff and fishin�? I don't get it."
"Look Bill, when writers ain't writing, they like to unwind. They're too high brow to watch TV. That is, unless it's got something to do with their work, like 'The Red Green Show' for instance. Instead, they like to mingle with other outdoorsmen. Swap ideas and things."
"Oh, I see. Like talkin' on the phone, only not so�um�spontaneous."
"Where'd you learn that word?"
"Watchin' TV."
"Well anyway, they hang out at 24 Hour CampFryer. Just click on 'Gut the Gunwriter' and you'll see them. My Internet handle there is Gutwrench Gus. You'll learn the rest in time. Just remember if you do drop by, try and be civil."
"I'll have a peek Joe, but they sound too high class for me. I'd feel outta place."
"Don't worry about it, Bill. There's some really dumb people like you there too. Of course, I ain't one of 'em..."
". . . after pulling the sewer lid back over the hole, the turkeys navigate through miles of sewer to emerge hours later in a culvert beside a major thoroughfare. You will frequently find them in these culverts feeding on your way home from hunting. In places like Ohio, where you can only hunt until Noon, the turkeys are relatively safe. If they survive flydown and the trip to the roach coach, they only have to slip into the sewer and find their way to the exit. By this time, the hunters are already out of the woods and the turkeys can slip back into the woods and loaf until it is time to fly back to their roost."
Bobnob, with an exacting charge of powder the monometal bullets will slide down the bore w/o engraving in the rifling, boosting velocity by 50%. Check it out.
Then, a guy could put 16" scope bases on his 45-70, and shoot everything from the hip. That would be a sweet sighting system on a Guide Gun!
There used to be a guy at work that would bull schit about anything and everything, always had a story to one up everyone no matter what the topic was.
On two occasions he stumbled into a firearms discussion that a co-worker and I were having. The bull schiter didn't hunt or shoot mind you, but he was always willing to contribute.
On the first occasion he claimed that he and his son built a gun that could blow up the moon in one shot, but they still had not figured out how to cool the gun down after the shot so they had given up on it.
On another occasion he claimed that when he was in his 20's he would always go target shooting with his 30-06 and would make hitting targets out to 2500 yards was easy for him then but he didn't think he could do it now. I asked him how much drop his 30-06 had at that range and he told me at least a couple inches. Of course I called bull schit and showed him on a ballistics program how full of crap he was. He just shrugged his shoulders and said his gun must have been faster.
One of my best new gun deals involved a couple of gun-counter jerks un-boxing some newly arrived rifles behind the counter, putting the big store price-tags on them, and then placing them in the rack.
One of the new arrivals was a Marlin Cowboy Limited in .45 Colt. I first took notice because the factory wood was quite a bit better than average. Then I noticed that the fellow had obviously miss-priced it as a standard Marlin 1894, at $499. They had other M-1894s in the rack at that price, but no other Cowboy models.
I politely, I thought, pointed out his mistake. He immediately took offense, and then called his buddy over. His partner backed him up on the price, also acting arrogant that I suggested that they might have made a mistake.
I gave them one more chance. I said, "So this is my price right now, $499?"
"Yes", they said.
I said, "Sold. Let's write it up". and they did.
I saved a couple of bills. A nice, fun rifle. I still have it.
Sounds like he may actually have been Ken Norton's sparring partner, at least long enough to get brain damaged into believing the other stuff.
mathman--
if only that were the case. of course he wasn't ever a boxer, and was only 5 ft 6 in tall--a little small for squaring off with ken norton--a blow or two from norton would have "jellied" his brain.
the actual reality was, he was a former convict, and i believe he had a long history of abusing drugs, as his teeth were gray and absolutely rotten to the core.
one time he told me about his ".50 caliber barnett" (which via his imagination, could have only been a cross between a rifle and a crossbow)...
i listened to his tales though--as they were better than the very best jokes that were ever told on the jobsite.
back in the mid 70's, when scenarshooter and i were out hunting yotes nearly every day, i got to talking with this guy i'll call "D", who was a huge brute who knew precisely nil about hunting, or firearms.
i asked "D" about the rig he used for swatting dogs.
"i got lotsa riflesz--all kinds."
after a fashion i learned he was using a browning lever gun in .308 win.
i asked him how it was with the hides. "blows Big holes in 'em", he said.
i asked him, "how big are the holes?" "Bigg", he replied.
i held my hand up and indicated about a two inch circle. "Bigger", he replied.
i indicated about a 4-5 inch circle. "BIGGER", he gruffed.
"you're at about the limit there "D"--so how big were those holes blown in the hides?"
"BIGGER THAN A GARBAGE CAN", he growled.
it's been 39 years, and Pat and i still laugh about it every so often when we visit--as it was "over the top--impossibly ridiculous bs".
this one from behind the counter. Deer hunting on Colorado this nimrod armed with a 30-04 springfield sporter with 180 rem's took his 10 point Mulie at 600 measured yards. said mulie was at a dead run across the slope. " I held on his nose and broke his neck"
The most egregious story comes from a few years ago. Angus was next door, talking to the neighbor girl. All of a sudden, she got a sick look on her face and ran inside. Angus decided something was wrong and came back home.
He'd just started explaining when the doorbell rang. It was the girl's father. He was agitated. He wouldn't come in the house, he was angry and fearful because Angus had told his daughter that he had a .22. Before we go any further into the story, let me just mention that the neighbors are Jewish and I'm 3rd-gen German American. I'm not being hateful; it is relevant to the story.
"Yes," I replied. "He does. Technically, it is mine. He cannot legally own a firearm until he's 18."
I then got a raft of questions: Does he have access to the firearm? Does he have access to the ammo?
I cut the guy off and told him I was an NRA Life Member and kept the firearms according to NRA recommendations, and I'd be happy to give him a pamphlet on how to keep firearms with children in the house and -
"NO." he replied. "I just want your word that your son does not have access to guns."
I assured him we kept the guns safe and that we only shot them at the farm. He skulked off. We packed up and headed to the farm for the weekend.
Sunday, after our return, a very haggard and pale version of the neighbor returned to the front door.
"Yes?"
"Look, you gotta help me. My wife has been all over me. I haven't slept all weekend. I just need your assurance, man-to-man, that your son does not have unfettered access to firearms.
"Yes, that is true. If you like I can send along that pamphlet I mentioned. The NRA is a great source of info-"
"No, that will be enough." He said. "My wife is just very upset and worried."
"About what?"
"About all the guns." replied the neighbor. "She worried that-"
I'd had enough. "Look Dave," I said. "I'll tell you the problem here. The problem is that somebody thinks of us as GERMANS. And they have a real big stinking problem with the idea of GERMANS having GUNS. I get the picture, really clear. "
"NO! That's not it at all."
". . .and you can tell your wife that, as far as I am concerned, I am getting rather annoyed at the idea that someone would be so worried about a GERMAN having a gun. I would have thought we would have all grown past that by now."
I shut the door and we did not talk for the better part of a year.
You need to move to the woods. Doubt I could of been as cordial.
this one from behind the counter. Deer hunting on Colorado this nimrod armed with a 30-04 springfield sporter with 180 rem's took his 10 point Mulie at 600 measured yards. said mulie was at a dead run across the slope. " I held on his nose and broke his neck"
Let's see...history of government's 30 cal in bolt-action Mauser clones...30-03: 220rn @ 2200, 30-04: 180 @ 3600, and then they settled on 30-06: 150 @ 2700. I guess they wanted to find the limits of the platform before settling on something effective. I'd not mind getting a 30-04 chamber cut. Makes a magnum bolt face unnecessary! Can you find this guy, Deerstalker?
I wuz huntin in Montana one year for speed goats.That evening I met a fellow in The Big Sky Bar from Oregon.He had him(New at the time) a 7MM Shootin Times Westerner.This Dude had about 2" thick coke bottle lenses on his glasses and wuz telling me of his 800 yard shots on running speed goats.The whole bar was crackin up and he could not figure what we wuz laffin at!!!!!!!
Man, I can think of a bunch of really awesome ones. One was my ex-wifes uncle who owned a gun shop. He favored a 7MM Rem Mag. Because sighted in 3 inches high at 100 he could hold on out to 500 yards and had made 800 yards shots on antelope with just a sliver of daylight under the crosshair . you needed no lead on running animals.
Just last week a guy at a gun shop told me he has a 338 Lapua that shoots 1" groups @ 1000 yards . That's quite impressive!!!
Man, I can think of a bunch of really awesome ones. One was my ex-wifes uncle who owned a gun shop. He favored a 7MM Rem Mag. Because sighted in 3 inches high at 100 he could hold on out to 500 yards and had made 800 yards shots on antelope with just a sliver of daylight under the crosshair . you needed no lead on running animals.
Just last week a guy at a gun shop told me he has a 338 Lapua that shoots 1" groups @ 1000 yards . That's quite impressive!!!
So he holds several shooting tiles and world records, huh? Great!
Long story and I didn't type it well. Let's say I met a "genius" who is a friend of my roommate's and I left the discussion before the stupid became contagious.
The first ruffed grouse I shot when I was a kid in PA had only one pellet wound, in its head. I have only taken 4 grouse in my lifetime and two were a double. None of this is BS.
Guy came by the table last weekend bragging about his AR-15 M-4...told us he could shoot quarter size groups with it using standard 55 grain bullets....at 1000 yds offhand with stock A2 sights...when we asked him how much hold over he was using for the drop he told us his rifle shot flat and he held dead on! When he left us, laughing on the floor of course, we looked up the drop of a Remington 223 55gn with a 100 yd zero: 691.581 " or about 17 FEET! and he held dead on target...a quarter....at 1000yds... And they buy guns.....
An old fellow that worked with me before he retired told the story where his brother had a bird dog that kept eating birds, so one day he had had enough and went to the truck and got "some kind of 22 magnum" and shot the dog and he fell over dead caught on fire and "burnt slam up, nothing but ashes".
Shooting a groundhog at about 300yrds with 22-250 he missed he said that there was a blade of grass right in front of the hog said the bullet exploded when it hit that grass. Cause the 22-250 is so fast it can't hit grass. I figure the bullet must have been traveling right around 5000fps at 300yrds to do that lol.
this one from behind the counter. Deer hunting on Colorado this nimrod armed with a 30-04 springfield sporter with 180 rem's took his 10 point Mulie at 600 measured yards. said mulie was at a dead run across the slope. " I held on his nose and broke his neck"
Let's see...history of government's 30 cal in bolt-action Mauser clones...30-03: 220rn @ 2200, 30-04: 180 @ 3600, and then they settled on 30-06: 150 @ 2700. I guess they wanted to find the limits of the platform before settling on something effective. I'd not mind getting a 30-04 chamber cut. Makes a magnum bolt face unnecessary! Can you find this guy, Deerstalker?
he is worm food in a cemetery in hanford calif. actually that 30-04 was a typo....was a 30-06
Back in 2000 in the February edition of Handloader Magazine a fellow wrote up a super duper wildcat he developed. I believe he called it a B29. Have to build one one of these days.
The first ruffed grouse I shot when I was a kid in PA had only one pellet wound, in its head. I have only taken 4 grouse in my lifetime and two were a double. None of this is BS.
I remember grouse hunting on day with a friend of mine and we jumped a single bird. After the customary 6 shots ( we each carried pumps guns) the bird fluttered to the ground dead, at my last shot...... My friend said, Hey , You got him!!!!! I went and picked up the bird and it had One pellet in it....... through the chest. I smiled and said, I meant to do that because I hate pellets in breast meat!!! Even I know I was BSing..... and we laughed....
In no other profession/ field do you get such colorful stories. I mean you don't see proctologists saying "This one time". I love the shooting sports.
Adam
One spot is worse at B.S stories.... Try going fishing somewhere along the U.S./Canadian border. Be sure there is a good mix of Americans and Canadians and at least some Whiskey... and if the waters contain at least some Muskies, the Bull is DEEP!!!!!
I was reminded a while back of a story told, and claim made by my uncle and his good friend when I was a child and they were in their late 20's, were very much outdoorsmen, and heavy drinkers. One of them got a 220 Swift, and then proceeded to shoot it at everything he could, extolling its miraculous powers. This went on for years, but one claim stands out: a one-shot kill on a bull elk at 700 yds. That is the story that they spread, that the Swift dropped the elk like lightning at a paced off 700yds. 50 gr factory ammo was used, Remington, IIRC.
There you go. I think about that story once a week or so, and chuckle. What do you have that beats it for outlandish BS?
some of the fellas accusing BS--when it wasn't BS:
back in the late '70's, my old friend Bob S. was doing a plumbing job up in Big Sky.
at the 10 am break, some of the guys went out and sat down for a breather. as they sat there, a yote wandered out of the timber and stood out in the open--about 400 yards distant, and upslope some. the yote quickly split the scene.
when Bob remarked matter of factly that he could have hit the yote at that distance, all the guys immediately cried "BS"! Bob just shrugged it off...
the next day, at the 10 am break, while some of the guys were taking a breather, one of them said to Bob, "i placed an old lunch box up there on the slope where the yote came out of the timber. you said you could've whacked the yote, prove it to us by shooting that lunch box". Bob spied the black lunch box sitting in the snow.
wordless, Bob went to his truck and retrieved his rifle. he settled into a solid shooting position, and fired.
"there you go", he said. the guy that placed the box on the hill replied, "i took the lunch box up there, so now you should have go get it." Bob quickly hiked up the slope. about 20 feet away, he saw the .22 caliber sized hole, right near the center. he smiled to himself.
as he picked up the lunch box, he saw that it was his. when he got back down to where the guys were, they were all chuckling...
I had a dog that was so fast he could run the stripes off a coons tail. I seen him make a tunnel in the air that took ten minutes to fill up! He weren't nothing up agin ol' Ricochet, no how. That one he burned up chasin' pheasants. Liketoa burned up halfa South Dakota afor they got him put out. Yep, ol' Ricochet was a goin' concern.
Course, not alla them was fast ones. Had one that was real smart tho. Taught 'im to get the mail all by 'isself. He was so slow he brought the Christmas cards on the Fourth of July, but hey, he was a likable cuss. Used to lay by the stove alot, but he froze to death in July waiting for the heat from last winter to warm him up.
Yep. Good ol' dogs is hard ta come by. I been blessed.
Coworker: "My ex-girlfriend's daddy had a badazz rifle. It was a .375 H&H Mag...but it was necked down to hold a .30 cal bullet! It would shoot like 8000fps. It was AMAZINGLY fast for a .30 cal. You could sight it in at 200 yards and hit anything holding dead on all the way out to 600 yards or more. And when he shot hawgs with it the hole left was amazing. You could stick both hands in the hole...or your whole arm. He paid, like, $5000 for this rifle. It was a Weatherby special."
What's bad is that I have talked with this guy before and he is sharp...I even showed him how ballistics tables work and how bullets slow and drop over all distances. He was sitting there talking with another coworker and the dumbassery is off the charts. Its like listenting to feedback from two phones that have gotten to close.
"If you shot a deer with that thing it would blow'em in half...you only need guns like that for elephants."
I want to go correct them but I am scared my IQ may take a hit in the process.
The greatest BS story I ever read was the reason I started writing. It was a story about head shooting donkeys with a .22 magnum at some 200yds plus.
I wrote the letters column can called BS and totally irresponsible if true and got flamed at being an armchair expert, so my response was to write an article on the .375 H&H which the first article I had published. John
This one made it to print: On the '34 trip, I again saw a 7x57 Mauser fail miserably on mule deer. The president of KNX's brother-in-law carried this rifle. I for- got his name. Anyway I got him a shot at an awful nice buck with a good head at about 250 yards across a gulch. He hit him in the neck and it took off a vertebra and over an inch of the spinal cord. The buck dropped and laid there, and while we were crossing the gulch he jumped up and took off again. He hit him again and piled him up, so we got the buck all right but that 139-grain 7 mm had failed to do the job. It had cleared the spinal cord for over an inch and yet it hadn't put him down to stay. He was able to get up and run.
This one made it to print: On the '34 trip, I again saw a 7x57 Mauser fail miserably on mule deer. The president of KNX's brother-in-law carried this rifle. I for- got his name. Anyway I got him a shot at an awful nice buck with a good head at about 250 yards across a gulch. He hit him in the neck and it took off a vertebra and over an inch of the spinal cord. The buck dropped and laid there, and while we were crossing the gulch he jumped up and took off again. He hit him again and piled him up, so we got the buck all right but that 139-grain 7 mm had failed to do the job. It had cleared the spinal cord for over an inch and yet it hadn't put him down to stay. He was able to get up and run.
Had an I&E Foreman tell us the other day that he has a .308 that he can do a 5 shot group into a quarter at 2,000 yards. But it gets better. He then went on to tell us that he bought this .22 long rifle from a pawn shop that was specifically built for the boy scouts that will put 3 shots into the same hole at 1,000 yards but it will only do it with subsonics. After that I couldn't hold back anymore and told him he was full of schit.
Shooting a groundhog at about 300yrds with 22-250 he missed he said that there was a blade of grass right in front of the hog said the bullet exploded when it hit that grass. Cause the 22-250 is so fast it can't hit grass. I figure the bullet must have been traveling right around 5000fps at 300yrds to do that lol.
I will tell a experience that I had with a 22-250 of mine that might explain this guys story. I got a wild hair of trying to match 220 swift performance with my 22-250 so I got a box of 45gr sx bullets and was loading close to 4000fps.. I would get. A super group going and then one bullet would completely miss the paper. Checked the scope etc and then my buddy was shooting it and I noticed what looked like a vapor trail coming from the barrel . Sure enough the little sx bullets were so soft that some would disintegrate leaving the barrel.
As a kid growing up, my family lived on venison. And Dad was passionate about keeping the freezer full. He shot at everything that moved with a Rem 760 in 30-06. At first he used the iron sights, and then he moved up to a 3-9 Scopecheif IV.
One day he was plugging away at some deer over 600 yds away. He finally walked the rounds onto target and knocked one or two over.
The B S part was what he had to say about his buddy's 308.
"That POS could not even reach those deer. The 308 is the sorriest excuse for a cartridge that ever existed."
I attempted to explain the actual marginal ballistic differences between factory '06 and the 308 ammo to no avail.
I hear lots of tales at gun shows, a few months back a guy was selling a Stevens Model 200 in 308 to a vendor and the seller told him with a serious look on his face that he was a sniper in the Vietnam War and they were issued Stevens Model 200s in 308. The vendor bought the rifle for $125.00.
A 'customer' once told me of his custom 1886 winchester in 45-70�it would shoot 4inch groups at 1100 yards...
Just have to throw this in:
The minimum acceptable accuracy of the .45-70 from the 1873 Springfield was approximately 4 inches (100 mm) at 100 yards (91 m), however, the heavy, slow-moving bullet had a "rainbow" trajectory, the bullet dropping multiple yards (meters) at ranges greater than a few hundred yards (meters). A skilled shooter, firing at known range, could consistently hit targets that were 6 � 6 feet (1.8 m) at 600 yards (550 m)�the Army standard target. It was a skill valuable mainly in mass or volley fire, since accurate aimed fire on a man-sized target was effective only to about 300 yards (270 m).
After the Sandy Hook tests of 1879, a new variation of the .45-70 cartridge was produced: the .45-70-500, which fired a heavier 500 grain (32.5 g) bullet. The heavier 500-grain (32 g) bullet produced significantly superior ballistics, and could reach ranges of 3,350 yards (3,120 m), which were beyond the maximum range of the .45-70-405. While the effective range of the .45-70 on individual targets was limited to about 1,000 yards (915 m) with either load, the heavier bullet would produce lethal injuries at 3,500 yards (3,200 m). At those ranges, the bullets struck point-first at a roughly 30 degree angle, penetrating three 1-inch (2.5 cm) thick oak boards, and then traveling to a depth of 8 inches (20 cm) into the sand of the Sandy Hook beach*. It was hoped the longer range of the .45-70-500 would allow effective volley fire at ranges beyond those normally expected of infantry fire.[5]
After the rifle was handed to the customer, he inquired of the counter help who'd just mounted his scope, "Why are these bases not sitting flush with the receiver?" The counter man replied, "Well, if they were flush the screw heads would all shear off before you got it sighted in."
That customer turned to me with conviction and said, "Wow, that guy really knows his stuff!"
This one made it to print: On the '34 trip, I again saw a 7x57 Mauser fail miserably on mule deer. The president of KNX's brother-in-law carried this rifle. I for- got his name. Anyway I got him a shot at an awful nice buck with a good head at about 250 yards across a gulch. He hit him in the neck and it took off a vertebra and over an inch of the spinal cord. The buck dropped and laid there, and while we were crossing the gulch he jumped up and took off again. He hit him again and piled him up, so we got the buck all right but that 139-grain 7 mm had failed to do the job. It had cleared the spinal cord for over an inch and yet it hadn't put him down to stay. He was able to get up and run.
It was this sot of thing that caused me to be skeptical of anything Keith wrote..clearly the agenda was that if the vertebrae and inch of spinal cord had been blown away by a 333 OKH and 250 gr whoosis bullet, all would have been well with the world.Sometimes I think he made stuff up just to get a rise out of readers....and push an agenda. Many of his readers believed this nonsense...I bumped into more than few.
Despite his knowledge,I found you really had to sift through his writing to find the truth...this sort of stuff in print destroyed his credibility with lots of folks.
He did have several that made me scratch my head and wonder. Overall, I enjoyed his writing and one of my regrets is not taking the time to drive up to Salmon and meet him in person. I think that would have been enjoyable and educational.
P.S. And I do thank him every time I shoot my .44 mag.
Just heard one today. Guys sneaks up on a bull moose with a BB gun. Bull is knee deep with his snout under water grazing of something good. Guy shoots him in the balls with the BB gun, moose inhales and gags, drowning on the water....
Just heard one today. Guys sneaks up on a bull moose with a BB gun. Bull is knee deep with his snout under water grazing of something good. Guy shoots him in the balls with the BB gun, moose inhales and gags, drowning on the water....
Still, it was one of the most astounding tales I've read in quite awhile. Grown man/girl lost on 5 ac? I thought, "It can't be true!", but then it was Jeff, a Twilight Zone legend. Only the Shadow knows.
I heard he wasn't posting because he proposed to Boxer.
It would shoot like 8000fps. It was AMAZINGLY fast for a .30 cal. You could sight it in at 200 yards and hit anything holding dead on all the way out to 600 yards or more. And when he shot hawgs with it the hole left was amazing. You could stick both hands in the hole...or your whole arm. He paid, like, $5000 for this rifle. It was a Weatherby special."
Some of the details are exaggerated, but the 30-378 Weatherby is amazingly fast for a 30 caliber and does shoot extremely flat. Perhaps not quite as fast nor flat as stated, but....
In a big box store I overheard the 'genius' clerk telling a customer that you NEVER wanted to use bronze brushes in a rifle barrel as the bronze, being harder than steel, would 'rub the grooves' out of your rifle. When the clerk left to go find some nylon brushes I walked off.smh
When I was a student at Michigan Tech, we had an indoor pistol range on campus. I was a range officer for the pistol club. There was another RO watching the firing line and I was working in the office, getting a student outfitted with glasses, hearing protection, ammo, and a Ruger MK II. The student I was helping started talking about shooting his Savage 7mm RM. Said he had chronographed his 175 gr loads at 4400 FPS. I asked him if he meant 2400 FPS from a starting load? He kept on the 4400 fps tale, and claimed he had the chrono printouts to prove it. I laughed and said that any 7mm RM would likely blow the bolt out the back of the rifle long before it could produce 4400 fps with a 175 gr bullet. He said he'd bring in the printouts the next time he came. I laughed some more and said it doesn't matter, because that speed is BS. He tried harder to convince me; but I eventually said that he was either a liar, or an idiot who didn't know how to use his chronograph. At that point he left in a huff. He never did come back when I was working.
while reading on another thread, the subject reminded me of an incident from several years past;
several years ago, my wife and i would climb the "M" approximately every 2 or 3 days, just to stay in reasonable shape.
on occasion, a friend would join us.
one particular night our friend Pete M. wanted to go, but we both had prior commitments, and couldn't go--and subsequently, Pete went by himself that evening.
after he had climbed the "M" and had come back down, he saw a group of several guys parked down in the lot, and they were partying--according to him--on booze and ditch weed.
they had very deliberately blocked in his car so he couldn't leave, and then started harassing him--shoving him around, and giving him a hard time in general. they had their fun with it for awhile, and after a fashion, they finally let him go--laughing at him as he went to get in his car to leave.
it shook him up aplenty.
a couple days later, while we were headed to climb the "M", he told me about the incident and said, "if you had been along that evening it wouldn't have happened."
i told him, "you know Pete, that's pure BS--what you really needed was the Weasel (scenarshooter), for that situation--not me.
he excitedly replied, "i wanted the Equalizer--not the Terminator!!"
Well, all this is well and good, and I have run into most of these storys, or their near-match at least. However, on the other side, there are also a very, very few which just happen too actually be True. As an example, I have a buddy some locals like to call "Lyin' Jimmie" because of some of his tales. The problem is, he's the best and most consistent shot I've ever known. He's just a po' country boy, and doesn't look at all the part of a real shootist, but he IS. I've had friends tell me about some of his "lies," and I'd have to tell them that I was THERE and they're actually true. The guy has vision I can't even understand, much less hope for. I've always sought out the best shots I could to shoot with, and it's good advice to anyone. Jimmie was raised on the river banks by his grandpa and grandma, and the first time dark caught him in the woods, he was 8 yrs. old. He shot his first deer at 6. His grandpa hunted and fished for a meager living, had a large garden, and did farm work seasonally for his cash money. His grandpa was a great shot, and taught him to shoot as soon as he could hold a gun up, and he taught him well, too. When grandpa paid for the bullets, he EXPECTED some meat every time the gun fired, except for sighting in or checking the sights after the gun took a blow in the boat or wherever. Lots of these types are no better shots than the rest of us, but ol' Jimmie was a natural, and I'm thankful we've been fast friends for so long. He's a good-hearted fellow and will do all in his power to make a person a better shot. He's very free with advice, and likes a good competition. I've offered him SOME competition, but his eyes were so superior there was just no way I'd be able to beat him very often, but he knew I wouldn't be too far behind, at least, and he liked that.
So ..... despite the fact that you and I both know that 99.9% of these claims, especially the ones about offhand shooting, are as bogus as a whore in church, there ARE a few - maybe 1 in 10,000 - that are really true. One reason I've always respected Jimmie is that he always declares his "scratch" shots as just luck, but he's had so many opportunities, and taken them, that at least SOME of them just HAD to be True, and I know that because I've been witness to some of them, and he's got many, many more that have witnessed too many of his other tales, so ..... if a guy BETS you, and is serious about it, that he can do what he says, it'd be a good idea to think several times before betting any substantial amount and losing it. There ARE some amazing shots among us, and they don't always take kindly to being called liars by people who don't believe anyone else can do what they can't do. The liars will never bet good money on duplicating their feats, so .... the wise will always know how to tell the difference.
Guy came by the table last weekend bragging about his AR-15 M-4...told us he could shoot quarter size groups with it using standard 55 grain bullets....at 1000 yds offhand with stock A2 sights...when we asked him how much hold over he was using for the drop he told us his rifle shot flat and he held dead on! When he left us, laughing on the floor of course, we looked up the drop of a Remington 223 55gn with a 100 yd zero: 691.581 " or about 17 FEET! and he held dead on target...a quarter....at 1000yds... And they buy guns.....
I was pestering a buddy who worked the counter in a local gun store and in walked a sharply dressed man. "I need a gun that's big enough for a bear" Do you have something in mind? "I'm thinkin a .45, my buddy is a cop in Chicago and he recommends a .45" Do you have a preference in .45s? "I don't know, I just moved here and we had this friggin bear on the porch last night" I couldn't keep quiet, "You're from Chicago, you're supposed to like "Da Bears". He left with no pistol but did have the DOW phone number!
This one made it to print: On the '34 trip, I again saw a 7x57 Mauser fail miserably on mule deer. The president of KNX's brother-in-law carried this rifle. I for- got his name. Anyway I got him a shot at an awful nice buck with a good head at about 250 yards across a gulch. He hit him in the neck and it took off a vertebra and over an inch of the spinal cord. The buck dropped and laid there, and while we were crossing the gulch he jumped up and took off again. He hit him again and piled him up, so we got the buck all right but that 139-grain 7 mm had failed to do the job. It had cleared the spinal cord for over an inch and yet it hadn't put him down to stay. He was able to get up and run.
It was this sot of thing that caused me to be skeptical of anything Keith wrote..clearly the agenda was that if the vertebrae and inch of spinal cord had been blown away by a 333 OKH and 250 gr whoosis bullet, all would have been well with the world.Sometimes I think he made stuff up just to get a rise out of readers....and push an agenda. Many of his readers believed this nonsense...I bumped into more than few.
Despite his knowledge,I found you really had to sift through his writing to find the truth...this sort of stuff in print destroyed his credibility with lots of folks.
Of course IIRC Keith had little education. And if you re-read that post, it could indicate that the bone off the top of the spine had cleared. It never said it severed the spine at all. ANd since it ran off, you can figure it didn't. Its very possible that the bullet only frag'd off a 1 inch piece of bone.
Which could or could not kill or paralyze the deer.
I"m not saying he didn't lie, but I am saying that its may not mean what folks interpret it to.
And it could be that a larger round/bullet may well have made the difference in that instance. Or not.
Of course if they'd have shot it in the lungs like you are supposed to, it wouldn't have mattered or required a 2nd shot.
Like I said I like some of Keiths theories. And its made me try some shots on targets that I though he was nuts, but you find that you could do if you shot enough probably.
Regardless otehr than a 270 I own I'd never buy a 270. LOL.
Have a local "expert" famous hunter who once wrote up his exploits with recurves (more prestigious than compounds) on big bucks. Funny when we looked at his bow, the rug rest and side plate had NO wear marks! Plus, his stories in the PBS magazine were always identical, except for the buck's current nickname! His eyes would blink when we asked a lot of details about the hunts. Guess that's why I don't watch TV hunt programs, especially for whitetails! Take most hunting stories with a big grain of salt.
I'm watching the aTm vs Ole MIss game while I scroll through this thread, and the commentators mentioned something about "needing better penetration" just as I saw this picture of my two old girlfriends...
As to the real topic, there's a local BSer who once told me he was hunting horseback and saw a group of elk out in a flat. He allegedly spurred his horse on, catching the elk off guard enough so that he rode right into the group of fleeing elk then pulled out his sidearm and began firing - killing 4 or 5.
This story was told to me as true: A guy I went to high school with was out hunting squirrels in October with a .22 rimfire. Seeing a deer, he killed it with a head shot from the .22. As this was during Illinois archery season, and as this guy had an archery tag, he shoved an arrow into the bullet hole, tagged the deer and took it to the check station and got it checked.(This was back when you actually had to haul your dead deer to the check-station.)
It sounds plausible, but I have to wonder why the DNR guys at the check station weren't a bit suspicious of a deer head-shot with an arrow. Not being A bow hunter myself, I'd think it would be difficult to kill a deer by shooting it in the head with an arrow.
Don't know if I ever told you the story of my being "south of Vegas" in 1996?
I worked at Hart Mountain Refuge on my first of several sage grouse projects for OSU, from mid-March till July, lonely and bored young man that I was, I often went to Lakeview for the weekends to socialize. I will add that I had Grandpa's old green perfectly cherry 1971 1972 Chevy Pickup, Camper Special and it cost no less than $90 to go to town and back at about 7 or 8 MPG on a volunteer's wage of $15/day 5 days a week, a loosing proposition if there ever was one... One of the few local haunts was called the Indian Village, generally a pretty good time on the weekends filled with a mix of society and that offered at least the glimmer of a chance to get a little. The Village, it was painted a pastel kinda sunset light orange color that would glow nearly as much as me in the late June evening light. Well, there'd been some big hurricane down in the SE states, the year or two previous I think it was, and the Federal Government had bunches of these surplus NEMA travel trailers parked in Fort Worth, Texas that the GSA was dulling out to the various agencies. Our Refuge manager acquired three of them to use for bunk houses, so the crew set about driving down in three pickups to pull them back and I begged myself along for the adventure, never having been to such destinations... First day we blasted down through all of Nevada and stopped for the night in Boulder City, just "south of Vegas". Me being me, and 27 years young, I celebrated with the three respectable good ol' boys then headed out on the small town ending up at a rather festive place with booze, music and dancing as I recall. My favorite kinda place during the 90's. Next thing I know, this well-armed Officer of the Law is questioning me. He asks, "do you know where you are". I looked up from the sidewalk, peered around and saw this pastel colored building glowing in the pinkish orange light and eluded to the officer that I did indeed know my whereabouts! 'Lakeview, Oregon,' I pronounced with certainty. Well, he 'plained to me that I was quite mistaken, that I was witnessing the glow of the sun rising to the east, and I was in fact in Boulder City, gem of the fine State of Nevada, where sidewalk snoozing is frowned upon, and not such a good idea because of the preponderance of rascals at that hour of the day. The Lawman drove me back to the Hotel where my co-workers were just recently up, well rested and ready to hit the road. My Government standing was quickly, yet a tad bit reluctantly, verified, and away the Officer went. Next stop SanteFe', then Amarillo, onto DFW and back to Hart Mountain, a grand six day round trip. BTW, coming into Amarillo, we never did hear THE song play, which was rather disappointing to all, and the very beginnings of my disappoints associated with the Lone Star State. Thinking back on being "south of Vegas" makes me gracious to be in the present and should clarify where my handle stems from. (-:
This one made it to print: On the '34 trip, I again saw a 7x57 Mauser fail miserably on mule deer. The president of KNX's brother-in-law carried this rifle. I for- got his name. Anyway I got him a shot at an awful nice buck with a good head at about 250 yards across a gulch. He hit him in the neck and it took off a vertebra and over an inch of the spinal cord. The buck dropped and laid there, and while we were crossing the gulch he jumped up and took off again. He hit him again and piled him up, so we got the buck all right but that 139-grain 7 mm had failed to do the job. It had cleared the spinal cord for over an inch and yet it hadn't put him down to stay. He was able to get up and run.
It was this sot of thing that caused me to be skeptical of anything Keith wrote..clearly the agenda was that if the vertebrae and inch of spinal cord had been blown away by a 333 OKH and 250 gr whoosis bullet, all would have been well with the world.Sometimes I think he made stuff up just to get a rise out of readers....and push an agenda. Many of his readers believed this nonsense...I bumped into more than few.
Despite his knowledge,I found you really had to sift through his writing to find the truth...this sort of stuff in print destroyed his credibility with lots of folks.
Of course IIRC Keith had little education. And if you re-read that post, it could indicate that the bone off the top of the spine had cleared. It never said it severed the spine at all. ANd since it ran off, you can figure it didn't. Its very possible that the bullet only frag'd off a 1 inch piece of bone.
Which could or could not kill or paralyze the deer.
I"m not saying he didn't lie, but I am saying that its may not mean what folks interpret it to.
And it could be that a larger round/bullet may well have made the difference in that instance. Or not.
Of course if they'd have shot it in the lungs like you are supposed to, it wouldn't have mattered or required a 2nd shot.
Like I said I like some of Keiths theories. And its made me try some shots on targets that I though he was nuts, but you find that you could do if you shot enough probably.
Regardless otehr than a 270 I own I'd never buy a 270. LOL.
Jeff
Either way, this is how I interpret people like Elmer.
"Really awesome me took really dumb guy (so dumb I don't remember his name) hunting"
"Really dumb guy brought a POS 7mm which I have always told people not to use"
"My amazing abilities as a guide enabled really dumb guy to get close to a nice deer"
"Dumb guy's POS rifle failed to do the job just like awesome me predicted."
Most of my biggest hunting/shooting bs stories came from my Montana Hunter's Ed instructors... He was giving a "course" on muzzleloaders, and had a rusted out, piece of junk in-line with a broken off triggerguard for the demo.. When he got to muzzleloader "safety", he told us if the gun would not go off, the only safe thing to do was to throw it in a lake or other body of water... That sounds like a good idea. Don't ask me why he wouldn't just unscrew the breech plug and ram the charge out. His preferred method of cleaning this muzzleloader was to run a nice hot bath, and clean it while he took a bath. Seriously.
Last week I was standing in a bar in the Gaslamp District of San Diego and a guy standing next to me started talking about guns and how a .45ACP would instantly drop an assailant just by shooting him in the leg. Said assailant would be completely out of the fight. It was too much gun for the guy in the bar, that's why he carried his 9mm Makarov that had been bored out to .380. It always ended the fight with just one shot without the extreme damage that the .45 caused.
Ed
I knew a guy who had a Ford Mustang with a 5L engine "bored out to 302". You think they are related?
Or the guy who told me his 350 Chevy ran like a short block 400 (wonder how the 400 runs without heads??)
"That Dog was the best I've ever had. He held every Grouse until I walked up and flushed it and never busted a single Grouse."
"This was Dad's only shotgun, I don't think he ever missed a bird with it."
Fellow I ran into one time while Grouse hunting told me: "When that first Bird gets up, don't every waste your shot. Set your feet and get ready for the next one." Then again, he may have been a vary serious Grouse hunter.
"Might as well take a nap in the afternoon, Deer hole up in the afternoon and you will only bust them out and probably never even know you did."
....and my campfire favorite. "That rifle-standard off the shelf issue-is an all day half-inch rifle."
In the early-to mid 80's when I used to work a gun counter every Saturday, this one guy would come in and always tell tales of hunting out west, and being that we were in SC, they were very unique to say the least.
One day I was at my unk's and he had a then new 10ft satellite dish, and I was introduced to what became the outdoor channel. Oddly, many of the stories that great white hunter told were being played out by other people on shows that I until then had never seen!!!! Hmmmmmm.......
I watched one that was about deer hunting, mulies near some river (Powder?) in Montana, and there was a particular bit about stalking up to little stands of trees and just hunkering down, then dropping down along the high bank and easing up to the next stand of trees. I tried to memorize as much of it as I could. A few weeks later, in comes our great white hunter, who soon begins extolling his latest-greatest kill....the details were so similar to the show, I finished several sentences for him! He looked at my wry grin, realized I had a satellite too, picked up his stuff, and left, never to be seen again
Seems the guys 7-08 was so slow that he shot at a coyote at 300 yards and set the rifle down on the ground before the darn bullet even got to the coyote.
Well.... I do have several 38s on 44 frames, S&W Heavy duty and Outdoorsman revolvers. But I work in a gunshop and I'm sure I know the kinds of tales you speak of.
I had a fellow tell me that he shot a 4 inch group at 1000 yards, off the bench at the High Ore gun range south of boulder, MT. I didn't bother to mention that I was a member of that range, and the longest shot off the benches was 400 yards- Matter of fact, I had installed one or two of those benches on the last clean-up day.
I looked that rifle over real good and handed it back to him.
Apparently he felt the dad would have been more severely injured had he been 200 yards away when that bullet had a chance to get a full head of steam. And they gave him a badge and a gun. 
![[Linked Image]](http://s560.photobucket.com/user/thmsbrownlee/media/24HRC/200_s_zpsdfff4e37.gif.html)
![[Linked Image]](http://s560.photobucket.com/user/thmsbrownlee/media/24HRC/slavocracyishalltauntyouasecondtime_zps386f847c.gif.html)
![[Linked Image]](http://s560.photobucket.com/user/thmsbrownlee/media/sharihunter3.jpg.html)
![[Linked Image]](http://s1244.photobucket.com/user/pathfinder76/media/9232490_orig_zps2e3266c2.jpg.html)
![[Linked Image]](http://s174.photobucket.com/user/pharmseller/media/100_0034.jpg.html)
![[Linked Image]](http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e344/2minutes/BFace.jpg)
![[Linked Image]](http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e344/2minutes/Chase.jpg)
![[Linked Image]](http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e344/2minutes/7By1.png)
![[Linked Image]](http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20060220114001/uncyclopedia/images/9/91/BS_Meter_some.jpg)
![[Linked Image]](http://prosanctityoflife.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/most-dangerous-animal.jpg)
![[Linked Image]](http://s170.photobucket.com/user/elkhunter76/media/Cartoon/bll-1.jpg.html)
![[Linked Image]](http://s170.photobucket.com/user/elkhunter76/media/Cartoon/Bird_Hunt-Guides.jpg.html)
![[Linked Image]](http://s170.photobucket.com/user/elkhunter76/media/Cartoon/3EDBC47B945A45CD97957C7D89FA8158.jpg.html)
![[Linked Image]](http://s560.photobucket.com/user/thmsbrownlee/media/24HRC/MIMIfartinyour_zps63b97379.jpg.html)
