any 9mm luger gun can be rechambered to fire the 356 TSW rd. No, you don't want standard weight bullets. What you want is 45 grs at 2200 fps. with the hp bullet split nearly in half from the front. It's actually more shocking and destructive (on animal tests) than a 4" 357 with 125 gr jhp's. Yet it recoils like a 380. I practice with my cast lead 125 gr lrn's, at 800 fps. same recoil. Lots less blast and flash, tho.:-)
Sounds alot like an FN 5.7
I thought this was another Deflave thread.
Nevermind, carry on.
I'm a bit skeptical of specialty loads for self defense. All handguns are pretty anemic and there's no way to make a handgun into a rifle regardless of the load. I'm most comfortable with loads that have established gunfight records in law enforcement. These would include Federal HST, Winchester Ranger T-Series, Speer Gold Dot and to a lesser extent Remington Golden Saber. Cor-Bon DPX also has a good track record although they aren't used as much by LEO's.
never claimed it became a rifle. I claimed, and it can be shown in animals, that it's a LOT more effective than what you've got in your pocket gun right now. :-) go ahead, be "comfortable" with loads that don't work worth a hoot. Cause they don't. You won't find enough chest hits (on people) with any given load,to give you a real reason to favor that load. You'd need at least 20 such hits, on video. Thats's the only proof of what happened (soon enough to stop an attack) People lie, have mispreceptions, etc. animal shoots are repeatable, as many times as you want. flesh and blood is flesh and blood. If the bullet doesn't expand and overpenetrates in critters, it will do even worse on men, due to the clothing issue.
examining a dead body doesn't tell you if the guy was stopped instantly, or fought on for 10 seconds before dying, after being shot, that is. all you know is he's dead. So what? he might have lived for days after being shot. the dead body doesn't tell you anything about how much shock and destruction the load achieved.
Squesh, show us the evidence.
Do you have some picture?
How about some tests through 4 layers of denim into some ballistics gel?
I was referring to duty loads that work in guns like a Glock 19 for example. Police reports document what happens in these shootings and there are lots of them out there. They provide real world data to draw conclusions from.
Years ago there were some purported animal tests of handgun bullets done in Europe. I believe they were referred to as the "Strasbourg Tests". They have been pretty well debunked. What are the tests you refer to and do you have a source for them?
If the bullet doesn't expand and overpenetrates in critters, it will do even worse on men, due to the clothing issue.
Interesting thread. Not saying your right or wrong. But that sentence does not make sense to me. I can beleave that, if the bullet doesn't expand and overpenetrates in critters, it will do even worse on men. But I can't see how it would be due to the clothing issue. Seems you have it azz backwards to me
Just curious, are you going to answer?
What is the sound of a head that gets between the back of a semi trailer and the loading dock when it backs in?
... the dead body doesn't tell you anything about how much shock and destruction the load achieved.
Jeff Cooper tell you that?
Where do these people come from? Is there a portal between universes?
... the dead body doesn't tell you anything about how much shock and destruction the load achieved.
Jeff Cooper tell you that?
What is the sound of a head that gets between the back of a semi trailer and the loading dock when it backs in?
Coffee,...everywhere, now where's the Windex ?
GTC
The 9mm is plenty for self defense, especially in Spring, Summer and Fall, before heavy Winter clothing is donned. Then, I switch to a 45ACP.
... the dead body doesn't tell you anything about how much shock and destruction the load achieved.
Jeff Cooper tell you that?
TFF!
And I'm pretty sure Cooper was a big fan of 230 gr hardball ammo, of the .45 caliber kind, IIRC. The so called "magic" bullet, not so much.
never claimed it became a rifle. I claimed, and it can be shown in animals, that it's a LOT more effective than what you've got in your pocket gun right now. :-) go ahead, be "comfortable" with loads that don't work worth a hoot. Cause they don't. You won't find enough chest hits (on people) with any given load,to give you a real reason to favor that load. You'd need at least 20 such hits, on video. Thats's the only proof of what happened (soon enough to stop an attack) People lie, have mispreceptions, etc. animal shoots are repeatable, as many times as you want. flesh and blood is flesh and blood. If the bullet doesn't expand and overpenetrates in critters, it will do even worse on men, due to the clothing issue.
examining a dead body doesn't tell you if the guy was stopped instantly, or fought on for 10 seconds before dying, after being shot, that is. all you know is he's dead. So what? he might have lived for days after being shot. the dead body doesn't tell you anything about how much shock and destruction the load achieved.
Do you actually believe the bullscheit that spews from your own mouth, my god your azz must be jealous!
care to TRY refuting any of it, instead of just talking out of your lover pocket?
Show me some peer reviewed studies.
As far as your BS about conventional loads not working
me, and the FBI disagree with you.
We carried Glock 45's for the first 11 years I was on the Job, every gunfight we had was stopped very very quickly with 230 Grain Gold Dots, and 55 Grain Vmax fom an M-4
Post Mortens will
Most certainly tell you how a bullet performed, via wound channel, and bullet traverse
I frequently carry a G29 loaded w Doubletap 135 Noz JHPs. They're rate at 767 ME from a G20, bet they're still WAY over 500 ME from my Snubby Glock.
Spare G20 mags full of DT 200 gr. WFNGC which are hitting 542 Me at 100 yards from G20.
But pretty sure it's where the holes are placed that matters most...
All y'all confusing the kid's emotions'n such with such numbers.
Carry on.
any 9mm luger gun can be rechambered to fire the 356 TSW rd. No, you don't want standard weight bullets. What you want is 45 grs at 2200 fps. with the hp bullet split nearly in half from the front. It's actually more shocking and destructive (on animal tests) than a 4" 357 with 125 gr jhp's. Yet it recoils like a 380. I practice with my cast lead 125 gr lrn's, at 800 fps. same recoil. Lots less blast and flash, tho.:-)
Anyone quoting foot pounds of energy as a way to rate lethality hasn't a clue and that is a fact.
Is this still the "Ask the gunwriters" forum?