I have had my son shooting all summer with 22 Grains of SR 4759 in his Encore chambered in .270. The bullet he has been using is a HDY Interlock 130 grain. It just dawned on me that he may be a little under gunned. Shots will be inside of 100 yards. I called Hornady but they told me the minimum for that bullet is 2800fps for reliable expansion which I don't buy so that ended that conversation. I am thinking with this load he is doing about 1800 FPS.

Now season starts saturday and I will go back to the drawing board if need be, but just curious what thoughts are.

Ryan

That bullet started at 2800 fps has 1800 fps at 475 yards according to my ballistic program and 1600 or so at 600 yards. If started at an assumed 1800 fps it has just over 1600 fps at 100 yards so it would be like firing a relatively light loaded .270 at 600 yards.

Agree with respect to velocity. But the bullet starting at 2800 with be spinning at a much higher RPM. There's been a lot of discussion lately regard the effect of RPM on a bullets terminal performance.

But deer ain't hard to kill. I'm guessing it would work fine as long as the bullet hits the right spot.

I started my son with a 270 and 100 grainers loaded 'soft'. As he became accustomed to those and was shooting well, I switched to 140s, again loaded soft. When it came time to hunt, I gave him mid-to-full loaded 140 A-Frames and he had no trouble bagging his first moose. He had just turned 10.

I would bet that you could load those same 130s up another 400-600 fps and he won't even notice the difference with 'hair' in the scope.

The minimum impact speed for reliable opening varies with the bullet construction. Partitions open reliably if they hit the target going 1800 FPS. So do Barnes, and, IIRC, Hornady bullets. Sierra and Speer cup and core bullets require about 2100 FPS minimum impact speed.

You might do best with a bullet designed for use in pistols if you can find one or with ballistic tips.

For the 130 gr Interlock, the Hornady manuals list 2800-3400 as optimum velocity. You'd probably be o.k. if you bumped up your speeds to 2500-2600.

Hodgdon lists youth loads on their website using H4895:

www.imrpowder.com/PDF/Youth%20Loads.pdf

While they don't list 130 gr. bullets specifically, they do tell you how to use H4895 for reduced loads using the 60% Rule by reducing loads as low as 60% of max to achieve roughly 60% of max velocity. You could use a calculator to extrapolate and find the right load percentage to give a good balance between velocity and recoil.

You will be fine. My son shot a deer with a 85gr TSX at 100 yards. Starting velocity was 1900fps.

My wife and nephew's have use the 140gr Hornady BTSP on close to a dozen deer with no problems. Ranges from 60 to 150 yards. That bullet clocked 2 350 fps.

I am quite sure that I could bump up to full house loads without an issue, the only problem is that there will be some major impact differences and re-zero would be a must. Not normally a problem but for some reason him and I shoot P.O.A. about 4-5" different with this load meaning that I would want him to shoot the load too. Now that it gets dark an hour after school gets out that is pushing it. I am really kicking myself for not thinking of this but he is REALLY accurate with the current load and I want to be comfortable with his accuracy and would want him to shoot the new load.

Anyone know how the energy would compare with the 100 grain .243 sierra my daughter shot her doe at 100 yards with being pushed by 27 grains of IMR 4198?

The 130 hornady interlock is not a good bullet choice in the 270 for a 1800 fps load. Yes your result may vary from mediocre to piss poor.

The bullet is designed for higher impact velocities.

Shod

Another option: have you considered a reduced recoil factory load like Remington's Managed Recoil ammo. They offer a 270 load with a 115gr bullet at 2700fps. I have a friend who's daughter uses it....very effective on deer out to 200 yds or so, and very little recoil

Shodd,
How many deer have successfully taken/witnessed/mentored using reduced loads with ANY bullet? Let alone Hornady's?

The load will cleanly take any deer at 100 yards. The 130gr will work just fine.

I still have 50 plus reduced loads on the shelf with said bullet. I have BTDT.

I'll bet your reduced loads are not leaving the muzzle at 1800 fps.

I'll give you it will work however as I stated at 1600 fps impact velocity the results may vary from good to piss poor.

Shod

Just run to the store, pick up some 130 Ballistic Tips, throw them on the same reduced load, and you'll be there with great performance at the low velocity.

If you cannot find BTs, put a Partition on there and you'll also be okay.

I would not recommend that Hornady IL at that low of velocity. It is far outside its intended window and will give less than stellar performance.

I have not chrono'd all of my reduced loads. But was very surprised when my 85gr TSX load was only 1900fps. Worked perfectly BTW.

The 130gr Hornady is not a hard bullet. I have pulled enough pieces of said bullet out enough venison to feel pretty confident about that.

This.

You would be better off with SST's, they are softer yet.

I know it is outside of the intended performance window, but if your son puts it in the right spot you will have one very dead deer.

I would much rather take a kid hunting that has shot a lot with reduced loads, and is using that load. Versus one who has shot very little with full power loads.

So, anyone have a ballpark of where impact will be if I put one of my Speer 130's loaded over 57.5 grains H4831 in there. I am guessing that load is doing about 2800?

Anytime you change powders, POI is anyone's guess

I get that for sure, I was just thinking that someone more well versed in ballistics programs and how to read the little things like height above sight line and impact could help get me close.

The problem with a complete load change is the change in POI may entail more than a vertical trajectory difference.

As mathman posted above it is more than a vertical when loads are changed. I used the same bullet but changed powder in my 300 win both loads were book max, the point of impact changed both veil clay and horizontally.
As I posted above it is anyone's guess and the likely hood of guessing correctly is very, very slim.

From my Chronograph records:

24" barrel
130gr Sierra BT
CCI 250
Winchester brass

57gr H4831

Average velocity was 2995 fps

Different rifle, 24: barrel with 60 grains and a cci 200 pushed the 130 NBT at 3076 fps.

delete

Started my son on a 308 pushing a 125 NBT at a whopping 1800fps......every deer he pointed it at and pulled the trigger on died......ranges were limited to 100 yds and all deer (5 over three years) died within 100 yds........the interlock is a CNC bullet......it will work fine on deer at 100 yds..... hint......its more WHERE you shoot em at rather than WHAT you shoot em with..........

hint......its more WHERE you shoot em at rather than WHAT you shoot em with.......... [/quote]

Hint....bullets matter more than headstamps.

Shot placement ain't never a bad thing however neither is bullet selection for the intended purpose. Re Hint

I'd prefer a cup and core bullet with a relatively thin jacket for low velocity impacts. Triple Hint

Shod

JC, since the goal is reduced recoil, here's another option for you, the Nosler 90gr bonded solid base. They are rated all the way down to a 1600 fps impact velocity, and the Proshop has them in stock as seconds.

http://www.shootersproshop.com/nosl...olid-base-with-cannelure-blem-100ct.html

Ryan,
Looks like you got a lot of opinions with a few backed by some field experience(s). I reload light loads for my wife's 30-06 so have a little experience, but not with the 270 your loading.

I'm going to fall on the side that thinks you may have expansion problems with that bullet.

Here's a couple of thoughts I can offer:
1) Shoot that load across a chrony so your not guessing what velocity its going.
2) Line up about 5 one gal milk jugs filled with water and shoot'em. Look for the hole size from one jug to the next and try to find the bullet if it stops.

Most well-placed pencil holes will be lethal. 'Where' and 'when' are the questions most of us, the OP included I think, are hoping to control. Introducing a youngster to the taking of life is probably best done as humanely as possible.

I seriously doubt that 5 jugs will stop the bullet.

Filled with water and placed at 100 yds they will. That's around 30 inches of penetration.

I've shot through way more than that with a 1911 45 ACP. actually 9 jugs filled with water. Good luck.

If a 130/270 bullet made it all the way through, it way it would be because it didn't expand much, if at all. At full 270 Win speed that bullet would not make it through five one gallon, water-filled jugs as it would expand a lot, and more than likely become shrapnel. Water tends to be a very hard expansion medium for high velocity, expanding projectiles. A water test may or may not tell one much about a relatively low speed impact with a bullet designed for high velocity. If it did show no or little expansion however, that would be indicative of the most you'd likely get in a soft-tissue impact on an animal.

If him and I were shooting anywhere near P.O.I. this would all be a moot point. I can pull off plenty of shooting time between now and the weekend but yesterday the bus did not show up until 15 minutes before sunset which makes it hard to get him on target within reasonable light.

I have a bench full of powders and a good supply of bullets. One thought I have is that maybe out P.O.I. differences are because of our size difference and the scope parallax. Did Leupold make rimfire 3x9x40 scopes?

Based on the bolded above, I'd stay with what you've been shooting, and go make meat.

I agree, I would use the old as is at this point.
I would like to see the results of a 5 water jug test as well. I donot think you will catch the bullet, but others think you will.

I am thinking I will limit it to 50 yards and give it a go.

My biggest concern is trying to give him the best opportunity. I kick myself for not thinking of this ahead of time and am probably overthinking things. There has just been too much going on and I thought I was ahead of the game.

I did just realize that I have an entire box of pork that needs to be disposed of in the freezer. I may just give that a round and see what happens, I realize its not really apples and apples but will be an interesting test. The box is about as thick as a whitetail and packed full of misc. pig and beef that I had for bear bait that I no longer need.

Personally I would not sweat a 100 yard shot, as long as your son places the bullet where it goes. That goes for any load as well.

Well, I bumped it up to 25 Grains and even found a few minutes for him to re-zero! Should be MV about 2050ish. That should do the trick.

Ryan

Great, please let us know how it works.

Well, it worked.

For the second time ever I heard a bullet hit, and it hit hard. The deer was my sons first a 117 pound 3 point. Slight quartering away and entered just behind the diahpram and exited forward through the lungs behind the shoulder. There was no gaping exit wound but the internal damage was impressive. The blood trail was easy for a 10 yr old to follow across a field and one we could see 20ft ahead. He ran 40yrds. The shot was 110 yards.

Thanks for all the advice!

Ryan

Congratulations.

Super, congratulations.

AWESOME!

Sweet!

Good deal�relay congrats from Alaska to the young man!

Congrats on a memory that neither you, nor he, will ever forget.

Will do, he really surprised me this year. Last year I could not get him to practice enough to be proficient. So, he did not get to hunt. This year, he was all for it and shot every time I asked him to. He was mad that I gutted it for him....

That's fun! I'm glad to hear it worked out, and that your son has the desire for more now!!

Great news. Hornady bullets rock. I was going to comment on the earlier posts saying hornady wanted a 2800 fps impact speed that's not really what they list in their manuals. For some reason they like to list suggested muzzle velocities. I guess they're not keen on their bullets coming out of super mags at 3700 fps.
For the future I'd like to suggest as others have....get some sst's...they definately open big time for some of the kids I've loaded lighter rounds for.
I'm not sure I'd count on great expansion of an interlock EVERY time under 1800. Especially if it slips between the ribs. Another great choice might be the 100 or 110 accubonds that are designed for the slower speeds of the 6.8.

Congrats Ryan, to both your son, and to the proud DAD...

I've loaded up 270 loads for a friend of my son and a couple of his buddies, who borrow a pair of my 270s and hunt with Seafire Jr and I each fall...Using SR 4759 and 4198 for powder...with MVs in the range you were using...charges of 20 to 25 grains of SR 4759....

Loads that have been successful, with that charge have been 130 grain Ballistic Tips...but also 110 grain Sierras, along with 90 grain HPs from both Speer and Sierra, using charges of 20 to 22.5 grains of SR 4759 when the boys were younger...

Deer around here are antelope sized for the most part and weight in the range you speak of, your son taking.. and we hunt in a wooded area close by, that can be described as 30/30 ranges...

"varmint bullets" open up well at these type of ranges and speeds being spoke of...

even myself, I've taken a couple of good sized Blacktails, 175 lbs and 210 lbs over the last few years, out of a 7 x 57 in a Model 70 Featherweight...

The loads were 115 grain Speer HPs, behind a charge of 28 grains of SR 4759.. I use this ammo when I hunt with the boys in our wooded area where the 30/30 ranges apply...

The load has the same POI at 100 yds as my "open country"
load of 44 grains of IMR 4895 and a 140 grain Ballistic Tip...

both deer taken by me with that load, were shot right thru the heart, at 100 yds or less...which wasn't really that hard, since the SR 4759 loads have almost ZERO recoil.. especially to an adult..

A handicapped 10 yr old, son of one of the women in the "office" of my son's school, wanted to "hunt with Grandpa", on Grandpa's Property... Grandpa had a stroke a year or so before, so in reality we were talking 50 to 75 yds.. and more like shooting it off of Grandpa's Porch, with then using that for a 'deer blind'...

Loaded up the young man a 110 grain RN Soft Point, out of a 30/30 that belonged to Grandpa...fueled by 10 grains of Unique..

definitely ZERO kick...the handicapped 10 yr old managed to drop a nice doe at about 50 yds... he, Grandpa and single mom were all so proud .....

Sea fire you are "da man"! Not just your experience w/light loads that you share here but helping all the youngsters get going.
Congratulations to EVERYONE helping kids get started!

Its funny you mention 4198......
It was my daughters turn friday and her first buck, also a 3 pt took a 100 grain .243 sierra at 100 yards being pushed by 27 grains of IMR 4198 through the lungs and stumbled 10 yards to his end...

Great post John.