What are they?

Weatherby 180 gr ammo clocks 3350 in my rifle but shows signs of high pressure.

My handloads go about 3175, which isn't that much more than the books say a .300 Win. can get.

I know mule deer has a formula for predicting these things. I'm curious as to what others results are.

Just from what I've read here at the Campfire, the realistic difference between the to is approx. 100 fps. I don't own the Weatherby so I can't say for sure personally.

I have worked with a Ruger #1 in .300 win mag from 1976, and a fairly new Mark V Ultralight in .300 Roy - both rifles have fairly long throats and 26" barrels - so although different makes and vintages, they are comparable rifles each with 26" barrels and long throats. Both are very strong actions.

Cartridge OAL is of no issue in the Ruger, as it would be in a magazine rifle - and you can seat 180gr Noslers well out there, around 3.65" OAL. The Weatherby can take cartridge OAL's to 3.665" and still fit them in the magazine. I've worked mostly with 180's in the Ruger, and 165's in the Mark V, though future development will be with 180's.

Weatherby claims 3350fps with 165's, and in fact factory ammo clocked 3425 out of my rifle. I got it up to 3350 with 165's and decided that was plenty, especially since the load was well over book for Reloader 22, and I was meeting factory claimed velocities. I broke down one factory load and found it had a similar charge of an extruded powder. Case life seems satisfactory and accuracy was okay. I'll try 180 Accubonds in the future, with an eye toward auodad hunting. I think 3200-3250 is probably a realistic goal for that weight. Wby claims 3250 for their 180 factory loads. I have not tried any of it in my rifle, only the 165's.

I've actually hit .300 Weatherby claimed 180gr speeds out of the #1 .300 win mag, but pressure was clearly too high and the WW brass was expanding far too much. With 180's out of the Ruger, I think 3100 is doable with good case life and accuracy. That speed may not be achievable in a different rifle, especially one with a 24" barrel, or a std length action and magazine box. And I think I'd set the goal still lower, if the rifle was an older Springfield or Mauser variant.

The .30 cal Long Range Accubond may be a real interesting bullet to try in the future.

The short answer to the OP is I think the .300 Roy can beat the .300 Win mag by ~100-150 fps, for the a given bullet and barrel length, in rifles of comparable strength and allowable COAL. As far as which one I'd pick, it would be a matter more of how I liked the individual rifle for the task at hand.

Bellydeep my results are about what TexnCal is seeing with his rifles. I have used some customs and factory 300 Win Mags modified for a 3.6" box and bullets seated to longer OAL in the 300 Win Mag....with that arrangement and 24" barrels slightly over 3100 fps with the 180 gr was routine....and in 300 Weatherby's with 24" barrels you won't see much more with hand loads.

All my 300 Weatherby's have been M70's either customs or factory Classics and generally I have seen about 3150-3175 with app 85 gr 7828 and 180 gr bullets.

Ultimately the 300 Weatherby is faster but a lot depends on barrels. I had a 9 twist .309 groove 26" Krieger SS barrel in 300 Weatherby that would do 3250 with a 180
. OTOH a 24" McGowen barrel did no better than 3125 with 180 and there was not 60-70 fps that separated it from the 300 Win Mag and 300 H&H that I also had in the stable at the same time.

Also had a pre 64 M70 that was rechambered from 300H&h to 300 Weatherby that showed 3420 with the Weatherby 165 gr BT factory ammo. The Weatherby stuff is loaded pretty hot.

I spent an afternoon last fall sighting in a pal's rifle, a custom 300 Weatherby with 25" Krieger and it routinely gave 3050 with his 200 gr AB hand loads. That's about 100 fps better than the best I ever saw from a 300 Win Mag.

In the end, I think the others are right...100-150 fps difference between them seems about right.

Any advantage that the Weatherby has in performance is more than offset by the cost of ammo and cases for reloading. The rifleman will pay a premium for that extra 100-150 fps.

Worth it? Dunno.......

Me neither.

bellydeep;
Good morning to you sir, hopefully this cold snap finds you keeping acceptably warm.

John's formula is this - for every 4% increase in case capacity one gets 1% increase in velocity.

I've run the numbers on a couple rifles I've played with, a .250AI and a .30 Gibbs and they work out pretty close.

Pretty close of course with the caveat being "all other factors being equal".

Like my cyber friend tex n cal, I had a 26" barrel No 1 in .300Win Mag and was able to get similar velocities as I recall.

It may or may not be of interest that we have two .308 Normas with 23 5/8" and 24" barrels respectively and with 165gr/168gr bullets were able to get awfully close to the 26" barrel .300Win. Mag.

As far as a .300 Weatherby goes, I've only shot a now gone shooting mentor's which was a Model 70 with a 24" barrel. While I can't recall specific velocities from that rifle, I do recall him being unimpressed with them.

My gut feeling is that if one wants to have a .300 Weatherby be "all it can be" - especially with lighter bullets than 180gr, then a 26" barrel would be the way to go.

Anyway sir, that's what I can remember on this cold November morning, hopefully it was a bit of use to you.

All the best to you this fall.

Dwayne

My M70 pf 24" 300 Win Mag shoots a max loaded 180 NPT with good accuracy using RL-22 just fine at 3110fps seated to 3.34" (because of the mag block in the action), yet my M700ss has a 3.6" box but a tighter chamber and will not even begin to tolerate the same load. Ended up using IMR 4350 and 180 gr NPT's with it avg 2995 fps . Can't see a difference on how dead the animals are with either load. I mean you know they were just as dead as you can get them. Everything shot with my 308 Norma gets dead too. Damn it all for there not being a provision in determining the degree of deadness. Oh besides that you can buy 300 Win Mag ammo just about anywhere ammo is sold. Magnum Man

The chronograph really burst a lot of bubbles on what were previously guesstimated velocities. I know my Pro Chrono did.

MM/RD: Far as I'm concerned, you can take most all the belted and non belted 300 magnums, toss them all in a bag,shake it up, reach in and grab one....and end up about the same place. Things like a 30/378 excepted. But cripes I have never seen one of those used by anybody.

This is true. I did shoot some factory Weatherby 300 WBY 165 grain in a 24 inch barrel that clocked 3600 FPS. I don't know how Weatherby loads their factory ammo, but it will clock higher velocities than what most people will handload...

In the end, they both kill animals very dead, very fast. Been using one or the other for nearly 30yrs and haven't seen much difference except when using 200r bullets. My current 300Win will barely manage 2800fps with them whereas both of my 300Wby rifles will easily hit 3000fps or a bit more. Since the Win has a 24" tube and the Wbys both have 26" the difference could be shrunk by 50fps if all barrels were same length. I like them both.

I hear you about the 30-378. Maybe Elk at 1500 yrds plus.....?

My 1/4 formula for figuring potential velocity in different-size cases was confirmed as very close to reality by a guy who knows a lot more about physics than I do. I came up with it by crunching the numbers from every source of loading data I could put my hands on. According to the 1/4, the Weatherby is capable of about 3% more velocity than the Winchester with the same bullet weight, or about 100 fps in loads that get 3000-3200 fps.

There are a few powders that will get 3000 (or very close to it) from a 200-grain bullet in a 24"-barreled .300 Winchester Magnum. Both Ramshot Magnum and Hodgdon Retumbo will do it in mine, with published data.

I've had a couple of .300 Weatherbys, one with a 24" barrel and one with a 26", but eventually decided the relatively small increase in velocity over the .300 Winchester Magnum wasn't worth the increase in recoil, since animals never seemed to care. In the process I also decided more affordable and available brass and factory ammo tilted the balance toward the Winchester.

Have also owned and hunted with both .300 WSM's (two) and .300 H&H's(three) and eventually sold all of them too, partly because I just don't feel the need to hunt with a .300 magnum of any sort very often anymore, having done it enough to pretty much know what happens.

Did keep a .300 Winchester Magnum, my Heym SR-21, because it's extremely accurate, so is the perfect "test vehicle" for new scopes: Any little glitch shows up on paper. But I haven't hunted with it, and probably won't. When I hunt with a "magnum" these days it's generally 7mm caliber or smaller, or .375 or bigger.

While a .300 magnum is certainly a good choice for an all-around North American rifle, or for plains game in Africa, I got past the "one rifle for big game" stage by age 20. Might get there again in the next few years, as I semi-retire, but wouldn't choose a .300 magnum of any sort.

I have owned both and after using them for a while i would take the 300 WM over the Wby . I have neither at the moment and the only Magnum 300 i presently own is the 300 RUM and hardly ever use it.

Question Mule Deer: What would your "one rifle for big game" choice be?

I have both and like both.. Of the two I would pick the Win. because brass is easier to find and in a long action I can seat the bullet out.. Not possible with the Wea. and any actions I have used..

I use other rifles, but on a serious hunt, I almost never go without a .300.. The last huge mulie I had a chance at, got a pass because I didn't have a .300.. I feel certain, if I would have, he would have gone home with me.. The average guy doesn't get to go on half a dozen big game hunts per season, so I want to be able to make the most of the chances I do get..

I wound up with a Ruger #1 (which I collect) in .300 win mag - it has some family history behind it, is pretty, and slightly collectible.

The Roy is a stainless/synthetic rifle, and at the time the only stainless/synthetic rifle I owned was a 7mm-08 Kimber with a POS barrel, so the Mark V seemed to fill a niche. It's spendy for the level of accuracy, however.

If you think you need a 300 Mag just buy a 30-06 and use the Fed High Energy Loads and you won't know you are aren't using a 300 Magnum except you will be carrying a lighter rifle with a shorter barrel

I own a .300 Wby, in MkV form. With factory 165 Barnes TSX ammo, it clocks 3390 fps MV. Accuracy is sub-MOA. For some reason, when it's time to hunt big bull elk, it is the rifle of choice most of the time for me.

Like Mule Deer, I've pretty much gotten past the 'one rifle for everything' stage, and the .280, .270 WSM, and .257 Wby see most of the action nowadays here in the US, for mule and whitetail deer, antelope, cow elk, etc.

I think Weatherby used C4 in some of their factory loadings..

You reckon...

DF

Actually, I'm usually able to reproduce Weatherby factory ammo with handloads, because I have all of Norma's powders on hand.

Norma loads their ammo, so I break down a factory round and weigh the charge, then look at Norma's loading data and figure out which one matches the charge. Sometimes the match isn't exactly to the half-grain, but that's no doubt due to variation on powder lots. But so far, every time I've done this the velocity was very close to the factory ammo's.

However, some of Norma's powders aren't particularly temperature-resistant, so I often use another powder for my actual hunting loads.

Well thanks for all of the replies guys.

It seems my handloads are right where they should be. If I ever shoot the barrel out on this gun, I might just go with the 'ol Win. next time around.

On the other hand, I've got all of the brass and dies...

So are you saying Weatherby factory ammo is not over SAAMI specs?

Dwayne,

My facemask froze to my beard yesterday.

But I hiked into a favorite mountain drainage and looked over about 40 mule deer.

Needless to say, the level of warmth was certainly "acceptable" to me!

The last time I recall seeing one at the range it was fitted with a 2+ pound Nightforce scope in windage adjustable Leupold mounts.

I'm sure it'll stay put. Yeah, that's the ticket.

MRP?

DF

Unless they've changed it since I got my last batch, MRP is very similar to Reloder 22 in every way I can see and measure. In fact, my present lots of each produce exactly the same results in some recent, extensive handloading tests with the .270 Winchester.

ditto..

That was my impression as well, when I broke down a factory load.

Related topic, the manuals all seem to stop at velocities a good deal below Wby factory loads. Is that because the bullet companies are using test barrels with standard throats, and Wby loads for their rifles, which are known for really long throats?

Exactly correct. I have copies of old Weatherby Guides, where reloading data is offered to include factory specs. I've tried MRP/RL-22 loads in the 257, 300, and 340 and they all duplicate exactly.

tex n cal,

Members of SAAMI (which includes all the companies offering load data that I know of) use test barrels with SAAMI-spec chambers, which which include the Weatherby freebore. Or they do in the Weatherby cartridges which have freebored chambers. Not all do.

I have/have had a half dozen 300 Weatherbys. I have loaded thousands of rounds of ammo for them and shot a few boxes of factory stuff up.

My current 300 Wby shot the Weatherby factory 150 grain Hornady load at 3710 fps (27" barrel). I only fired three rounds as that seems way to hot to be safe. There must be no lawyers in Normaland.

I can, however, get 3450 with H4831 using Hogdon's data with the 165 grain bullets I used to use. I got about 3040 fps with 200 grain bullets using that filty dirty H870. I haven't loaded with that powder in a long time. I haven't loaded many 300 Wby loads lately myself but have been shooting 300 Winchesters a lot.

I am taking a 300 Winchester Sendero to Mexico in January and just started prepping brass for it today. I am going to start with 200 grain Bergers. In the XCR-II that I have been shooting all during the month of October, I found that I could get about 125-150 fps LESS than the typical Wby loads with the same bullet weights and that includes factory Wby ammo although it is not Norma loaded but rather Federal and others.

I like the long neck on the Wby and find it is easier to get great loads but that is just me. I will see how this Sendero does. It was the only rifle that the serial number was available for when I was out of town and the rifle permit applications needed to be made so I am stuck with it.

Haven't read thru this thread, but the 300 wby is one fine cart..If i wanted one rifle for everything it would be Roy's 300.

I currently own two, and never use them :), but for killin 30's it really aint been improved upon,i have a 30-378, and love it as well, but the imp H&H will hang right with it..

I dont have much anything against belts, but i do wish Roy would have gone beltless way back then, and worked with a shortened version of his 378, for 30cal and lower carts.

Just thinkin outloud.

Belts were part of Roy's brand. He belted the .240 when a belt wasn't needed.

Don't think you'd have talked him beltless...

DF

Belted the 224 too.

I haven't read the whole thread yet, but my results with the two cartridges has been about the same as tex_n_cal's. I've been loading for the .300 Roy since 1974 and for the .300 Win since 1975.

My .300 Win is a Ruger 77 tang safety with 24" barrel, purchased in '75. I can get about 3050 out of it with IMR-4831 and 180gr NPT's. Haven't tried much else since it shoots so well with that load. I get 3000fps with 190 SMK's and Berger VLD's with a couple different powders and astounding accuracy. But I'm definitely limited by magazine length.

In the Roy (with 26" barrel), I can get 3150+fps with a couple different powders and 180gr NPT's, and 3100+ with the 190 Berger VLD's. In that particular rifle, I can just barely get to the lands with NPT's and SMK's and the rounds still fit the magazine. I always expected to be able to get about 100fps more, but can't do it without pressure signs. This is an older vintage Wby from late 60's, early 70's. I've never fired factory ammo in it.

I haven't tried any of the newer powders that have become available in the past ten to 15 years in either rifle. Maybe I oughta do that and see what I can get out of them. AFTER I change that red concrete recoil pad on that Ruger.

Yep, belts were as trendy then as beltless is today...

DF

I also got away from the one rifle for everything in the late 70s when I had my .30-06 rechambered to .30 Gibbs for elk size animals, and built a .257 Ackley for deer size critters, and a .22-250 for anything smaller.

Over the years I picked up a few other rifles like a .270 Win, a couple of 7mm Rem mags, and a .375 Ultra mag for Africa.

That battery worked great for me until about 5 years ago when I finally built a .300 Weatherby. I still consider the .22-250 my varmint rifle, but I now like shooting and hunting with my .300 Roy more than any of my other rifles.

To me a lot depends on the individual rifle, how it performs, fits and carries in the field. A gun one is comfortable with and can shoot well is more critical than the particular round.

I'm assuming rounds within a similar performance range, suitable for the game animal being hunted.

DF

This is certainly true in my case

Amen brother!! That's why I keep a couple of rifles that, by today's standards, are "too heavy". But their performance in the field, and that includes handling, balance, how they fit me and how comfortable they feel to me in various field shooting positions, all combine to make me more confident and therefore more deadly.

Yep!

Call me 'old school',
or
Call me 'OLD', it ain't 'magnum' without a belt.

Having had loaded a bit for a 23 inch 300 and a 24 inch 300 wby I found a little less than 100fps difference but never found the urge to load either full throttle. Very happy with a 180 at an easy 3030 and 3100 with R17.

Very little difference, performance wise, and I load for both.....

you might be surprised About a month ago I help a friend load for his 30-378 accumark 200gr LRX at like 3260 had less felt recoil than my ultralite .308 with 165's at 2740

The brake makes a big difference.

A friend and I just built a pair of 26 Noslers on a pair of shot out 700 BDL 7RM's. These guns are over nine pounds all up.

They kick about like a 7RM, 140 NAB's at 3,300 fps. I have a light weight Ed Brown Damara .300 WM that may push 8#'s all up with Conquest 3-9x40 in Steel Talley rings. Shooting 180 NAB's at 3,050 fps, it kicks less than the 26 Noslers. It has a brake, they don't.

DF

Yes , but I wouldn't want to shoot it without ear plugs of some kind !!

For sure...

I wear professionally fitted ear plugs AND ear muff protectors with my .300 WM with a brake. A member of my deer hunting club has a .30-378, his son has a .300 RUM. The bench is under a metal roof. Even with full hearing protection, you can feel the concussion when one of those cannons goes off.

DF

the 30-378 is a damn fire breather.My accumark aint too bad recoil wise, but the blast will rattle your brain,I dont use it much anymore,but i do have high praise for that cart,even tho it burns up 115gr of scarce powder per shot...\

Still wish Roy would have done a 2.5" 378 based beltless (or not,dont matter) 6.5-30cal, much like Dakota attempted.

Seems the 6.5 has come into its own more recently. Back in Roy's day, not that popular. And, he was a marketing animal, no doubt about that. Meaning, if he didn't think he could sell it, he didn't make it...

DF

I used to reload for an associate that used to hunt with a 30-378 quite a bit. He would always pay me to sight in the damn thing for him. I wore earplugs plus muffs and it still rattled my brain and turned my world upside down. I hated it, but he paid well. He took it to Kazakhstan on some kind of exotic sheep or ibex hunt and said the guides hated and cussed that rifle extensively, although he made some terrific shots with it. Even though he said it made an awesome bean-field rifle, he finally got a belly full of it himself and it has collected dust for the past 11 years.

I have owned both the Weatherby and the win mag. 100 for difference all things being equal. Given that I stick with the win mag of which I have two. Better than either is the 300 ultra...

I have a bunch of hunting rifles, I only take the 300 Weatherby when I am hunting - the rest just don't give me the feeling that I have the best tool for the job.

I have never polluted it's 26 inch barrel with bullets under 200 grains, and I added my muzzle break to it instead of having the barrel cut back.

The reason for a rifle of the 300 magnum class is that you expect tough shots, so why go for second best, you can reason this slight differences line of thinking all the way back down to the .243 if your inclined to.

None of my reasons for using it are technically sound, but all the game has tasted good, and I am a bit overweight for a guy who mainly consumes venison.

It is not costly to shoot in comparison to the costs of licenses, tags, etc.... And once you have the brass it is only pennies more than anything else.

Two people I moose hunt with have 30-378s. They are both set up for long range shooting as this can happen on the lakes where we hunt. My s-I-l has one and I have been with him when he is sighting in. As others have stated the muzzle blast is horrific. I don't like to stand even directly behind him on the firing line. Get out to one side and concussion is easily felt. Shooting is usually done at times when there are few if any others at the range. With that said they are formidable firearms. Not my cup of tea but, to each his own.

Jim

Roy Weatherby took a bunch of .30's cal's to Africa in 1948 to test his .300 and qualify it as superior.
When you read the data in the journals he published, the .308 seemed to have a higher percentage of instant drops as I recall.

Now remember that back in 1948, it was all cup and core. Nosler was not prominent yet.

In fact John Nosler sold his first Partitions commercially in 1948.

Reading Roy's journal entries from that first safari is interesting. He'd only killed a handful of deer before formulating his theory that high velocity was the secret to killing power. Shooting a bunch of animals in Africa really opened his eyes.

JB,
I CYA'd my comment because of the time period. Books took longer to produce and a new product takes longer to establish itself, particularly back then.

There could have been a year and more likely longer, between the actual shooting trials and the "availability" of Nosler's but the observation made is about what it was when I first played with magnums.
JW

Interesting. Where could someone find these published notes? Also, was Weatherby using an experimental version of the .308 Win in the late 1940s or are you referring to .308 bullet diameter?

I have never hunted with a .300 Weatherby but have a couple and like the round. Mine get 200--250 fps more than my handloads in .300 Win Mag with weatherby factory loads. My .300 Weath Ive shot the most is getting 3420 fps from 165 TSX factory loads and 3250-3300 with various 180 weatherby factory loads. I also don't think I've ever shot a group larger than 3/4 MOA with that rifle and most have been significantly smaller than that and therefore have never shot a handliad through it.

It fits ne well too. Maybe it should go hunting some day.

John,

I was agreeing with you. As I recall, Partitions were mostly sold locally at first, and it took quite a while before they started catching on.

DesertMuleDeer,

You should pick up a copy of WEATHERBY: THE MAN, THE GUN, THE LEGEND, by Grits and Tom Gresham. Amazon has 'em for a very reasonable price. The book includes all sorts of interesting stuff, including many of Roy's hunting notes and old photos.

I will pick one if those books up. I have enjoyed the Weatherby rounds I have played with, but for some reason rarely hunt them. Nevertheless. I find Roy Weatherby interesting from a business and marketing perspective and would like to read a little about him.

I've hunted with Wby and Winchester .300's, never a .30-378, although I've been there and seen them used. My current .300 is a Win Mag and I feel it's about all the .300 Mag I want. I find myself using smaller bores for WT and Pronghorn and have bigger stuff for Nilgai, etc. Just don't use a .300 Mag as much anymore.

DF

I see 300WBY rifles on the used gun rack all of the time, but seldom see 300WIN.

I think ammo cost for the non-reloading consumer makes a difference, Win. vs. Wby.

DF

John
I was also agreeing with you and just thinking aloud so to speak. I still.may be wrong about the date however as the '48 safari would include the .30/06 and may have included the not yet released .378 and more safari's followed after Buhmiller started necking up the .378 case to .458.

All before my time of course, but the Weatherby story is really the modern magnum story as the cartridges were designed for performance which is not the necessarily the original criteria which was more likely adequacy, useability and a catchy proprietary moniker.
No harm done all round

John

Just to date myself I'll call them the big three, 300 H&H, 300 Weatherby, and 300 Win. The only big difference I notice between the three was the Weatherby had a clumsy barrel and used more powder.

Absolutely, and another book I'd recommend for Weatherby afficionados is both books by Elgin Gates, Trophy Hunting in Africa/Asia. All sorts of interesting tid-bits, including the taking of an elephant (brain shot) with an experimental 378 necked down to 30 in 1959...

This is an unfinished debate, but put into the simplest terms:
A 300 H&H is a little more than a 30-06, the 300 Win is a little more than a 300 H&H, the 300 WBY is a little more than a 300 Win, the 30-378 is a little more than the 300 WBY.

When you look at the caliber and what it does accomplish, the 300 WBY still shines. Anything less is not enough of too much and anything more is too much of not enough...

You got that one zeroed in pretty tight...

DF

When it comes to 'killin' ....if the WM won't kill it, the WBY can't !!

Beat me to it.
There is no animal one can kill and the other can't when loaded with the same bullets.

This is the .308 caliber version of the .280 Ackley Vs the 7mm Remington.
Johm

The same can be said about the 30-06. You can back it down all the way to a 22 LR if you want. The 300 WBY still is the perfect storm in the 300 line. You guys like to compare overloaded 300 Win loads to under loaded 300 WBY rounds. I have chronographed 165 factory loads in a 24 inch 300 WBY at 3600 fps. You can't duplicate that in a Win mag...

Now, you can't attack Loony thinking with logic, just ain't Kosher to attempt such a thing...

DF

Kirk,

Yeah, you can duplicate that in a .300 Winchester Magnum. Just have Norma load some factory ammo.

I've always thought it funny that many people seem to rave about the 300 Wtby being 'something else' while comparing it to the Win Mag, yet the 338 Win Mag with it's significantly smaller case is considered virtual 'peas in a pod' with the 340. Comparing them loaded to differing pressures isn't much of an argument IMO.

Good point but as a percentage, I wouldn't be surprised if most .340 owners have also used/tried/studied the .338 whereas there are a lot more questions when the .300's are discussed.
John

Roy Weatherby took the venerable 300 H&H and made a hot rod out of it. That was 1944. Then about 20 years later, Winchester decides to let some air out of it and brings out a mediocre cartridge and the boys in line for that chambering, all showed up in a rented Subaru...

Quick Reply used.

Anyone noticed a difference in the field between the 300's -Win, H&H, Weatherby, when used under similar circumstances?
I couldn't and should I ever have another 300 it will probably be the H&H.

What velocities do you get when you handload 165's in your Weatherby ?

I don't handload 165 grain for the 300 WBY...

So what are your handloads in the .300 Weatherby?

180 grain BT. You know, the bullets with the plastic tips...

What velocities are you getting with them ?

I get right at 3250 w 180gr TTSXs and 80.1gr of MRP or RL-22

The 300 H&H works just fine in a 300 Wby chamber.

I'm getting just a little over 3100 fps with my Win Mag and my rifle has a 26" barrel. My load is 76 grs of H4831 with Fed. 215 primers. Fantastic accuracy with 180 Nosler BT's (actually the Nosler Combined Technology BT's).

Fixed it for you......only limited in that it's still using 30 caliber bullets.

But your comparison analogy is right on.

MM

That was a good one.

Based upon my experiences I seriously doubt that anyone is capable of detecting much difference between the three in the field under like circumstances.

Seems like 180 Ballistic Tips might be a little soft,(especially at closer ranges) if they are launched at 3250fps? I'm thinking Accubonds or Partitions would be a be a better choice? I'd be curious if someone has actually shot game with those bullets, so loaded.

So much time spent on worrying about Partition bullets and their net worth over a good BT. This isn't Africa, and these aren't dangerous game. The BT Killed them all without a bunch of failures. I used to use Accubonds, but found they aren't necessary either...













[img]http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee202/bridgershooters/Elk/Elk2009BobsPlace2.jpg[/img]

Great pics Kirk. I'm a die hard fan of BT's as well. Never had a rifle that wouldn't shoot BT's into tiny groups either. I use the 165's or 168's in my 06, 140's in my 280 Ackley and the 180's in my 300 Win Mag. I might have missed this, but what kind of velocities are you getting out of your Weatherby with the 180's ?

We have killed a number of elk with the 150 grain BT BT out of my .300 win. mg. Never tried to break any shoulders, but it killed about half a dozen very quickly..

For the most part, I'm just a whitetail hunter so I'm not all that concerned about super duty bullet construction. I've never had a whitetail go any great distance after taking a BT and some have dropped right there on the spot. I know a lot of guys here get all lathered up over Barnes bullets and I'm sure they work great too, but whitetails aren't all that difficult to kill, so I stick with what has always worked great for me.

No one would dare question the veracity of the Nosler Partition, but for most North American game it isn't necessary. I have killed hundreds of deer, elk and antelope with very little use of premium bullets. I had hunted a few years with the 200 grain Accubond in my 30-378 but eventually decided that was too much gun.

I went back to the 300 WBY, which I think is suited for the 180 grain bullet and continue to kill plenty of elk, some shot in the shoulder for purpose of anchoring them on the spot, and the BT has continued to kill them.

The most elk I have killed, somewhere around 40 or so, have been with the Hornady 165 spire point in the 30-06. All dead, all eaten and excellent success. The bullet companies continue to improve bullets that they sell to the sportsmen that want to buy them, but the results I have gotten with a bread and butter bullet hasn't made me ever think I needed something more...

You are quite right, and as Shrapnel pointed out they work well on big game also.. To me Barnes has gone a different route to achieve what Nosler did 60 years ago.. There are times when I do use partitions, but not as much as I once did..

Shrapnel, you still have the .30-378???

It is gone and I don't miss it a bit...

Knew a guy that built a 30-378 because he wanted one. Never saw him shoot it near as much as his trusty Parker Hale 300 Wby.

Eventually came to the conclusion that he enjoyed telling people he owned a 30-378, far more than he enjoyed shootin' it.

Laughin'........yeah, they're not much fun in a sporter weight gun, alright, (but nothing vicious like a full blown 378 Wby which is worse than a 458 or a 416, IMO).

But in a heavy setup & high BC bullets, they are an awesome LR rifle if that's your cup of tea.

MM

IMO if one wants a hot rod 300 really the best choice for a variety of reasons is the 300 ultra and Shrapnel is spot on in regards to the 180BT. I would not.hesitate to use it on anything a 30 Cal mag is appropriate for.

Real interested to try Reloader 23 when it's out, even though I have a few pounds of 22

I have several points of comparison for the Win vs the Weatherby. I've worked up loads in 3 different 300 WM with 180 Gr Accubonds in the past year. Powders were RL22 and 7828. All three seemed to max out around 3100fps, plus or minus 50 fps. Barrel length was 24" on two and 26" on the third. One Lilja, one Benchmark, and one factory MT Rifle Barrel. This fall I had the factory MT Rifle rebarrelled to a 300WBY in a Lilja barrel, 26in. I did limited load work due to timing prior to hunting season. 180 Accubonds over 7828 reached 3345fps and 180 TSX reached 3326fps over 7828. Accuracy was comparable on either with sub 5 shot 2" groups at 300 yards with little work.

I would recommend the 300WM to anyone that purchases ammunition and the 300WBY to anyone that reloads or is comfortable with a much smaller yet more expensive selection of loaded ammunition but wants a few fps and the name WBY. I happen to be a Weatherby fan and have several other WBY calibers so a 300 was a must at some point.

Regarding Ballistic Tips bullets: The early BT bullets seemed somewhat fragile and the later bullets are much better.

I highly doubt you are at those velocities without being over pressure.

I rather enjoy mine (moose, caribou, and elk to date).

I take a venture here and say I don't think you can get enough H1000 in a 300 Win Case to be over pressure... someone with Quick Load may be able to debunck that or prove it is so...

but all I know, is that I have had no pressure issues since using H1000 in my pair of 300 Winchesters, which working up are easily giving Muzzle Velocity well into 300 Weatherby territory...

with 165 grainers right up to my favorite, 220 grainers running right at 2950 or a little more... but not exceeding 3000 fps...

No doubt he is over pressure.

I've seen 3100 easily, in my .300 Win mag, with 26" barrel. I've actually been a good deal higher, but the cases were expanding too much.

.300 Wby factory ammo with 165gr NBT's ran 3425 fps, out of my 26" barreled Mark V Ultralight. Claimed velocity is only 3350. Factory claimed velocity with 180's is 3250; if the same trend holds, the low 3300's may be possible.

Assuming Bullwhacker judges "max" in his .300 Wby the same as he judges it in his .300 Win mag, I would not dismiss his loads as excessive without seeing them myself.

Well you have the throat variable going on in the Weatherby...how long is the freebore and how tight the throat is will have a big influence on how much powder you can safely burn without pressure in an individual rifle. Each rifle is a unique sample of "1".

Some of the loads that Roy Weatherby gave me when he was building the rifles would likely take a newer rifle apart, but the cases didn't show any pressure signs.

I don't see the point of running 180s to the max though. If more downrange performance is the goal, a sleek heavier 200-220 gr bullet from an accurate 300 Win at several hundred fps less will hang with the 180 AB out of the Weatherby past 5-600 yards.

I always liked my Weatherby for 200 NP as a go to load. I only ran the 180s for reduced loads when I didn't need a blaster back when it was my only rifle.

But the 180 AB, at 3200 fps...that should be doable in most Wby rifles and is a very good LR load... I would want to find the most accurate load.

Wonder out loud how much 7828 was used?

I have seen 3240 or so from a .309 groove 300 Weatherby with freebore. For me loads doing over 3300 fps with a 180 would have me backing off...just sayin'.

treading on 30-378 velocities if indeed they are going that fast

Maybe I'm easy to please but I have been satisfied with 180s running 3100-3150 in the Win Mag.

BTW - I still have all fingers, nose, and eyes. Just sayin.

No doubt this benighted statement adds no value to the thread.

The powder weight is 86.5 Gr., 0.5 Gr above the max load of 86.0 Gr published for Weatherby calibers by IMR. Stated velocity is 3240 for 86.0 Gr. I questioned the velocity as well but averaged 20 rounds on two different days. I also verified the ballistics out to 900 yards and was within an acceptable margin of error.

The factory Weatherby casings actually show more signs of pressure than I am seeing with this load by inspection. I also checked through case expansion to double check. The only significant variable is the Wby has a 3 groove barrel and obviously free-bore. Overall it is a great load. Great accuracy, great velocity and acceptable pressure.

Hogdon list a max load of IMR-7828 at 80.5 grains behind a 180 grain bullet in the 300 Weatherby.
Hogdon lists 86.5 grains as max behind a 180 grain bullet in the 300 RUM

http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/rifle

I don't know what gives with the current Hodgdon data. That's a good bit less powder and velocity compared to what I used to use/get with my old blue metal can 7828.

I found Bullwhacker's data here. Page 51. Interesting stuff.

http://pdf.textfiles.com/manuals/FIREARMS/imr_reloading.pdf

The Remington cases Hodgdon used could be of lower capacity than the Norma Weatherby stuff.

Did you look at the data? The link you posted lists 80.3 grains of 7828 as max behind a 180 grain

Both sights are less than 81 grains.

Congratulations, you have proven that you too can read manufactures published load data. You can continue to post conflicting max load data from every powder and bullet manufacture but it does little to make your point or to contribute to this discussion. 11th Edition IMR load data states 86.0 Gr. My load is one half of one percent over published max. I can send you a copy of the data if you would like to read it yourself.

I don't know where you're reading JWP, but on page 51 of the link, the Weatherby carts are listed, and 86gr is a compressed max in Weatherby brass for the 300 and a 180 Partition.

The link you posted had the 300 Weatherby on page 53 and the 180 load is 80.3 grains

86 is the max in my tan IMR guide.

And what velocity are they listing? Pressure is velocity and you are over 300 Weatherby spec velocity by a considerable amount.

What velocity does your guide list?

3240 with a 180 Partition, F215 primer.

The speed is within Weatherby speed.

Thanks

86 in my IMR, 84.5 in both of my nosler manuals.

Definitely realistic, my old 26" barrel MkV had no troubles at 3200 with a 180.

The high speeds mentioned earlier did raise my eyebrows a bit.

So if I am reading on pg 51 of the IMR manual, and see that I have a max charge of 86.0 gr IMR 7828, in Weatherby cases, at a seating depth of 3.56", then I could also seat the bullet out a little bit and have even more room. The speeds that Bullwhacker listed are spicy, but it seems like he is knowledgeable enough to understand everything involved. Some bunched up panties here.

No bunched up panties here. There are no free lunches, more than spec speed in a spec length barrel of 26" leads to higher than spec pressure. How do you account for the higher than spec speed without higher pressure? It is a very good bet that if spec velocity is reached with less powder than a Manuel lists that spec pressure has been reached in that particular rifle. It really is that simple.

A 10% increase in case capacity will yield a 2 1/2% increase in velocity at the same pressure.

I agree with you. It is all about the pressure. I'm sure the gun, the brass, and the shooter can take it though. I guess I just figured that Bullwhacker understood that 100fps over book means he is well above their pressure listing. I hope he does.

Agreed.

The powder charge you claimed was false has been proven within specifications. The velocity you claimed was unobtainable has been proven accurate through a modest chronograph as well as ballistically over 900 yards. The pressure has been carefully monitored and checked to be within acceptable standards. Therefore why do you continue to challenge and claim false when your only point of reference is your limited knowledge in this particular situation? The thread inquired to the difference in two calibers in which I've had experience with over the past several years and I simply posted my results for reference. Can we call this adequately beat to death and move on?

Donot make false claims, I did not say your charge was false. I am sure that you are loading the charge that you claim to be loading.
The pressure has been monitored and checked how? You have a strain gauge ? How do you get the extra 100 FPS and stay with in spec pressure?

That very well could be where the additional 100fps is coming from,with near book loads.If you crowd the WBY freebore too much by seating the bullet out, the pressure rises fast.

I've been around a bunch of 300WBY's, never seen one clock 3300+ without really standing on them.

Once again, I thought we were all in agreement that 3300+ is outside of spec pressure for 300 Wby. Is this or is this not the case?

85-7828 with a 180 used to be a "standard" load for the 300 Weatherby....or right in that range, kind of like the 270 and 60-H4831. Everybody used it.
What has happened to the Hodgdon data I don't know since it's been awhile since I owned a 300 Weatherby.

But just like any other cartridges that get bad raps for variations in velocities fro manual data,IME velocities varied from the 300 Weatherby,too. I had two M70 Classics, both chambered 300 Weatherby with 26" SS barrels that varied about 125 fps with that very load.

I think bullwhacker is getting the velocity from that tight,smooth button rifled Lilja barrel. I have seen that type barrel deliver somewhat more velocity with the same charges than a lot of M70 barrels, which seem to take heavier charges to generate the same velocities....could also be throat,rifling, etc....whatever it happens all the time.

Bob, the differences in the data amount to brass Hodgdon's low number uses Rem brass, and IMR has 2 sets of numbers: one in Rem brass that matches Hodgdon's, and one in Weatherby factory brass that is 5+ grains higher. There must be some significant differences in brass volume.

I can't explain the difference in velocity over the book numbers other than pressure. You may have done it though.

HnS: I bet there IS a difference between Remington and Norma (Weatherby) brass.

I always used Weatherby brass...or FF'd 300 H&H WW stuff. Components make a difference

I remember reading somewhere that some competitive shooters chose button rifled barrels from Lilja for their 308's and 1000 yd shooting because they swore the barrels helped them edge up in velocity enough to stay stable at 1000 without wearing out the brass too fast.

There must be some mojo in Liljas, huh? I know that used to be my excuse when I couldn't match Nosler's book numbers in my guns. I wonder if H-S Precision button-rifles bores...

H-S are cut.

HnS: I have only had one Lilja, a custom 270 Weatherby. It was FAST.

But I have seen the same things from Douglas tubes. I have one of those here that will give very good velocities from the 7 Rem Mag with pretty standard loads.

Just a WAG but these custom button barrels tend to run tight,are smooth,and get the velocities..at least that's what I've seen. IME when a rifle runs "slow" or "fast", the barrel and throating,interior dimensions,and rifling etc are the reasons.

I'm sure you're right, Bob. And I'm sure the custom barrels from the upper-end makers are well worth the funds. For now, all I can do is drool! But not for 3300+ with a 180gr bullet. That sounds obnoxious. I have no doubt it works though, and maybe even a second or two faster than the same 180 at 3150.

I tried Partitions this year. Didn't see any elk though. The 180 at 2750 did kill a deer when shot through the ribs. I didn't alert the media.

Never seen a 300 Weatherby "not work"..

Bob, I remember reading an article in Rifle magazine where the author was testing his new Jarrett rifle in 257 Weatherby that had one of those "tight" Jarrett button rifled barrels. Jarrett stated that he believed that tight barrels produced better accuracy. Problem was though, the author couldn't shoot Weatherby factory ammo out of the rifle w/o blowing primers. Of course, velocity will suffer as well with those tight bore barrels. Jarrett started making his own barrels after finding all the other makers not being able to make barrels to his accuracy standards and with an acceptable reject rate. Funny thing is though, that I can't ever remember seeing a match won using a Jarrett barrel and somehow all these matches keep being won using those old crummy barrels. Jarrett also cited delivery times using other makers barrels as being a problem when you add up using McMillan stocks as well. To his credit though, I don't know of any other custom rifle builder that makes their own actions, barrels and stocks under one roof.

RD: That was Terry Weiland with the 257. As I recall the rifle was not free-bored either but my memory could be bad on that point...in any event he could not shoot factory stuff in it.

This barrel stuff is funny, though. You get a tight barrel that doesn't go fast then you get one that does and it's hard to pin down "rules". In the end I guess when you see a barrel and round performing above and beyond the normal velocity levels,it's usually about pressure.

I go based on what is within generally accepted velocity levels for a given cartridge and have mostly stayed out of trouble.

Spot on, and IME you can still toss the 300RUM and 30/378 in that bag and have the same results. The 300WBY, 30-378 and RUM will beat the 300WM and the others by a little (about 150fps as has been stated) but the much bigger cases for me only produced more noise and recoil. They did not beat the 300WBY at all in my limited (a couple of rifles in each) testing. I think that after one gets to about the 300WBY case size, there is a severe decrease in returns for the added powder etc. In my case, the differences were nil, nothing and zero. Thusly, I consider the 300WBY the best of the bunch, but the difference between it and a 300 win is pretty small. For me, the velocity whore that I am, it is enough difference that if I was going to build a 30 cal anything, the Weatherby would be my choice and I killed a lot of game with mine when that was my primary hunting rifle. But there are no knocks or fly's on the Winchester version, either. Most people and most game will never notice a difference.

With 180 gr Nosler BT'S a 300 win mag=3100, a 300 Weatherby=3250, and a 300RUM=3350. YMMV.
One thing I will say is that if you have a remington 700 or a win mod 70 with the spacer removed a little more oomph is on the table with the win mag. About another 50 -7
70fps IME.

I currently have several 300 win mags and a 300 RUM in my quiver. Greatly prefer the RUM due to the beltless brass and not having to fart around hot roding it yet still hitting 3300+ fps with a 180.
I see zero reason for a Weatherby over the rum or the win mag. However, I am no longer a fan of Weatherby anything.

That's THE reason I've never been interested in the Wby. + why pay so much more for the gun & ammo (more for the brass + more powder burned).

I've owned, loaded, shot, & hunted at least 4 Win Mags since @ 1978 maybe 79.
A F A I C it's a well balanced sweet round.

Funny that you should mention that.

A good friend acquired a .30/378 and worked up a load for an out of state trip this fall. The guy is an experienced reloader and hunter.
After trying about everything to make the .30/378 shoot he backed it down to about 3050 fps and got very good accuracy. He did get his elk but could have taken a smaller .300 out of his safe and done just as well ..........

It probably makes a great super long range game getter, but that's about it.

I have zero experience to offer, but I sure enjoyed reading this thread!

Yeah, why burn just 70-80 gr. powder when you can burn 110-120?

DF

Why burn 70-80 when you can burn 50-60? 30-06!

Good point.

They just don't make enough noise to be interesting, I guess...

DF

I have shot my bro's .30-378 with 210 gr. and H1000, it shot remarkably well. and a 210 at 3150is impressive. I think a .30-378 with 230 gr berger would be lethal to any range you would care to shoot. Otherwise a.300 win mag, is more then enuff for most reasonable ranges. I just traded an unused rifle for a .300 and I had a choice between a vanguard in .300 wthby and a tikka t3 lite
in .300 win. I took the tikka , just because of the gun . Expense of weatherby and norma brass factored in as well . but a 6.25 lb tikka will be nice carrying in the mountains.. Otherwise the animals would never be able to tell the difference.

It's more than that brothers:

The 30-06 as good as it is WILL NOT push 180-200 gr bullets AS FAST nor AS FLAT as the 300 WM
AND those bullets will NOT HIT as hard, ESPECIALLY at longer ranges.

Those facts SEEM to escape 'some' here.

Just threw that in about the '06...

Actually, I'm currently working up loads for a 26 Nosler and am quite fond of my .300 WM and 7 RM...

I like fast, flat and noisy as much as the next hard core Loony...

DF

I owned a ss Mark in 300 why back in the late nineties. It was the fluted barrel model that Weatherby made for a short time. Gun was extremely accurate, I didn't bother hand loading for it because hand loads could not have possibly shot better in that rifle, Only objection was recoil. Now I fast forward to this last spring, my younger brother bought a Vanguard deluxe in 300 bee NIB. I figured the SOB would kick like a mule and lo and behold with factory wby 180 grain partitions it was a pleasure to shoot and very accurate.

I really thot so, but there ARE those who don't know or understand. Experience is the best educator.

I don't ever recall trying to turn my 30/06 into a 300 WM or trying to turn my 280 Ackley into a 7mm Rem Mag and frankly, I don't understand why folks do it either. I'd bet that if a guy here is a handloader/reloader he probably is enough of a "rifle looney" that he or she doesn't own just one rifle either. It's one thing to try and optimize a load for your particular rifle and an altogether different matter to drive pressures through the roof making it unsafe.

Had to drag up this old thread. Lots of good information here.

For many years most of my hunting coyotes and larger was with a Springfield 03 and a Weaver K4. Then I changed to a 30-06 in a 721. I suspect that I could have stayed with either ‘06 and done just fine.
BUT, I don’t play golf! My hobby is trying new and old cartridges. I bought a Savage 99 in 300 to use for white tail this year and am buying a 300 Weatherby for bigger game. I sold my 308’s & 243’s. And I sold my 338’s even though I think the 338 is an outstanding cartridge. But there’s only so much room in the safe for magnums. I really like my 700 in 300 Win Mag and I can’t get myself to sell the ‘06’s but I’ll probably spend the rest of my hunting years using guns & cartridges & bullets that I never used before. I’ll probably sell the 99 and maybe the WBY next year, then something else.

The heck with logic. My neighbor is over a mile away and he keeps bringing up, “Why do you need more than one or two shots to see if your rifle is sighted in before you go hunting?”

I just smile.

I hear you Bugger- I have used bookoo calibers through the years, had a ball doing it too! I now have settled down to a pair of identical Mod 700 Classics. .270W & .338WM I figure I'd best stop there and start doing more spending on hunting, before I get too the point it ain't fun anymore. Then, I can go back to playing with rifles/loads at the range,, ha. I've always been one of those that will play with/experiment with different rifles and will sell/trade existing rifles to pay for them. I don't "accumulate" as I want to hunt/use each rifle and I don't have enough time & money to shoot 5-6 head of game with each one, ha! Have a ball Marine! ( Sgt., US Army '71-'77, Arty)

I've wound up selling my .300's, but kept a .338WM, only because I like the rifle and I don't load it warm. I think of it like a slightly overgrown 30-06.

Regarding the .300's though, I loaded for a 26" .300WinMag a while back and saw 3,300fps+ with a book load of 7828 and 165's. Even if it was a 24" rifle, I can't think of much a stout 165/168 can't do at 3,200+, and do it well. I just don't need that kind of recoil for my purposes.

I’m partial to the .300 Weatherby and have never owned a .300 Win or WSM. A.30-06 with high energy factory loads or warm handloads is only a couple FPS behind the .300 Win so my convoluted logic told me that if you have a 24” ‘06 then the marginal utility of the .300 Win is small. Sounds like the same logic for .300 Win v. 300 Weatherby. With a 165/168 gr load, the jump from the 30-06 to 300 Roy is 400-500 FPS. The .300 Weatherby outshines the little brother with a 26” barrel if the Win Mag has only a 24” tube. Either is powerful juju. Happy Trails

Really ? the logic of a NON owner ! Read Below .



I HAVE and HAVE HAD several 300 Win Mags. J Pro isn't the only one to get 3300 fps with 165 boat tail bullets.

I have also exceeded 3100 fps with 180 N P.

ALL graphed over an Oehler 33.


** How about graphing some "high energy 06 factory loads" and get back to us.**

You Might re think your logic.


Jerry

I have several of each, plus 30-06’s. They all kill just fine.

Jerry, I don’t have to own any caliber to determine its usefulness, or not. You keep on believing that a 165 BT in a Win Mag at 3,300 FPS is within SAAMI specs. Happy Trails

uhhh



you were sayin....


Jerry


**** In the near future this pic will disappear. I'm managing my pic quantity in storage so I can not leave all of them up.

For future reference - this pic is of Nosler #7 loading manual showing loads for the 300 WM, 165 bullets @ 3300 fps.

Nosler....

You win, I recant.

However, ‘splain to me how Nosler lists a 165 .300 Weatherby with a 26” barrel SLOWER than a .300 Win with a 24” tube?

That, along with my personal experience, totally blows confidence in their data. Barnes data much closer to reality.

When I worked up that 165/3,300fps load, I was using one of those "One Book - One Caliber" load manuals for the .300WinMag. It was from the mid-90's. I'm looking at it right now and the Speer load data, which was fired in a 24" Ruger M77, went up to 83.0gr of 7828 for 3,280fps. I was shooting a 26" barrel and got 3,300fps with 81gr, so I stopped there. I also shot 80gr with 168's and made 3,250fps. In that manual, Speer said their loads did not exceed 54,000cup, so I'm assuming they tested them.

Regardless of 50fps here or there, the 300WinMag does bring a lot of juice to the table when loaded to its full potential.

WAM

I'm NOT pushing anything, just relaying more info.

"Back in the Day" (grin) I only had 1 magnum rifle at a time. My first was a Ruger 77 tanger 300 WM. I didn't know a 300 WM would
kick LESS in a 'decent stock with a REAL recoil pad'. I thot mags should/would kick. It did.

My next mag was a 700 Classic 7 mm RM and for a few years only 1 mag at a time. In studying the manuals of 'the day', I was looking for a powder to give reasonable velocity with the least powder burned.

I found that IMR 4350 did what I was looking for. That was some years back and we have MORE powders that'll perform at less pressures than IMR 4350.

As time has gone by I've 'evolved' and have multiple magnum rifles in diff 'calibers' (cartridges) and I have diff powders for each of those rounds. It puts less strain on having just ONE powder for the magnums.


I said earlier that I got 3100 fps + using 180 N P. I did. Here are a couple more pix from Nosler # 7 -- top shows bullet wt--- bottom shows velocities.





The last 5 powders listed produced from 3100 -- + fps. NOTE IMR 4350.

*** Note Same as above pix - these are loads from Nosler # 7 for the 300 WM



Way Back, I just liked the looks of the 300 WM and then I liked the velocities it got from less powder than the Wby. I'm NOT anti Wby.
I've said this 'here' before, " I have an irrational affection for the 300 WM. I just like it. That's all it takes for ALL of us to like or dis like
certain rounds (cartridges).

The 300 WM carries it weight very well. And that's not just my opinion, others share it as well.

Have a Goodun


Jerry

I was having a senior moment when I typed the 06 is just a few FPS slower. I was thinking about my early comparison to the 7mm Remington Mag. My only issue with the 7mm Rem Mag and the .300 Win Mag is the short neck dimensions. But it obviously is not a concern for the masses. Cheers

What is that ? never had one




Jerry

My .300 Win experience matches Noslers. 77-79 grains of RL22 has always given me great accuracy and 3200 fps plus velocity. I have seen multiple .300 Weatherbys consistently do 3400 with 165s and 3300 with 180s over multiple chronographs, including an Oehler, but that was with factory loads.

With a load of 89.5 gr of MagPro, I get 3,348 average and with 84.2 gr of RL 26 I get 3,320 with 168 TTSX. Both below max book powder. Both are sub-moa in. Fibermark 26” barrel. If that won’t get ‘er done, time to move along. Happy Trails

Are the SAAMI pressure levels for the 300 Weatherby lower than the Norma factory loads? Some of the reloading data like Speer and Alliant look like they are as they give very little advantage to the Weatherby. My experience a 26 inch barreled Winchester comes darn close to a 24" Weatherby. I was going to re-chamber my 300WM but decided not worth the expense and it shoots lights out now so not worth the risk.

Tejano

There’s TOOO much disparity in loading ?data? from Book-Book, Manufacturers
IMO. How in the world does a loader KNOW which is CLOSER to being right ?

It “SEEMS” to me that Barnes data is for Barnes bullets. Consequently I don’t EVER
check them out—- I don’t shoot Barnes bullets.

Hit reverse now. Back in the day, I relied on Hornady Vol II.
I did find a FEW loads that were too hot for my components.

Vol III is noticeably reduced !!!

I have settled on Nos #7 and I load FOR velocity — eyeing the Oehler and
ANY sign of pressure.

In ALL my loading I’ve ONLY had 2 blown primers.
Both 270 Win, 130 gr bullets, H 450 powder *** 2 diff lots.

There are too many variables for ME to argue about WHOSE book loads
are right or closer.

Jerry

Tejano,
I think you are on track. Discounting the difference in barrel diameter, rifling, chamber, throat, etc dimensions; the 26” WM could be close to the 24” Wby. SAAMI pressures and hence velocity are lower for the WM and the difference is small enough that the hand loader can easily obtain Wby velocities by exceeding established limits. I once bought a 7mm Weatherby at a bargain with the intention of rechambering it to 7mm STW until I figured out the very small gain was not worth the hassle.

Never owned a 7mmWBY or STW, but saw years ago that the WBY is certainly no slouch, especially the way Nosler loads it. Pretty close to the figures touted by handloaders for their STW rifles. I wouldn't have rechambered that rifle either.

I chronographed a tad over 3300 FPS(DOn't remember the exact number but do remember it exceeded factory specs) for a 150 grain BT out of a 7mm Weatherby (Factory Ammo) 26" barrel 80's Fibermark a few years back. It was a crap chronograph(Chrony) so there is that as well. That rifle was easily SUBMOA .


As to the 300 win mag vs 300 weatherby , there is not enough difference for an animal to notice IMHO. In the lack of recoil department the 300 win mag wins.

I have 3 different magnums, 30-338, 300 Win, and the 300Bee. I liked the 30-338 the best. The Weatherby IMO is better than the Winchester because I don’t like it’s short neck.

I've never owned/shot a 300 Weatherby, but several 300 win Mags and a couple of 300 RUMs. I have read where the 300 BEE could do 3200/180 as easily as the 300 RUM. I had one 26" 300 RUM that actually did a tad over 3200/180PT with Nosler factory ammo. The only handload I ever worked up/used in the other RUM, is a 26" Shilen barreled custom I had made for my SIL. It shoots the 200 NAB pretty close to 3100 with Retumbo.
I could easily get 3100 with 24" 300 winMag/180 xbt with R22 and almost as fast with H4831. Personally, I've never had a problem with the short neck of any cartridge. Is this an issue with "runout" with the longer, heavier bullets? Just curious.

BTW, I really liked the Federal High Energy 30-06 ammo. I got a consistent 2970 fps/180PT from a 23" Douglas. Accuracy was a solid 1" or a bit less. The Hornady Light Magnum/180 got 2910fps. Then, they both disappeared. The "Superformance" is no great shakes, nowhere near the LM speeds. At the time, I clocked a few 300WM (24") 180 loads that were right at 2950fps, average. Why did they discontinue these loads you reckon? I know those speeds are not "needed" for the Premium bullets to work well, but heck, I hate living only by "what is needed", at least in the World of Riflemen Loonyville!

I fired one 300 bee round over a guys chronograph (last round). It was a Barnes Max load., 4831 and 180 TSX fired out of a M70 with a 26 inch barrel. It showed 3318, maybe it was fluke.

Have a similar affinity for the .300H&H. Just like it. And honestly, my hand loads are only "warm .30-06" levels most of the time. Just something different...

I hear ya. Even tho I've never owned the H H, I do like its slick look and feeding. I think it has PNASH (panache) that none of the other 300s has --
including the W M.


Jerry

Jim, I don't remember the 'why' about some trouble with the short necks. My first 300 WM was a 77 Tanger about 1978 (?) and I've had a Browning, 700 , & 70 Black Shadow. - Another one escapes my FMD (fading memory disorder).

I've shot 150s, 165s, 180s, 190 HBT, & 200s in the W M and so far NO problem from a short neck has raised its head with me in 4-5 diff rifles. ? ? ? ?

Back @ 78-80 you could ONLY get a 300 Wby in a Wby rifle. Well that was a LOT more $$$ difference then. SO I opted for the WM for obvious reasons. For a long time now you can get the 300 BEE chambered in DIFF rifles. That's now, Then was Then !

Yes the Wby will shoot the same bullet a little faster--** I don't count their FACTORY ammo - because sometimes it
was ONE shot and the brass was SHOT ! That tells me something.!!!

For quite some time now I've had said, " IF the 300 WM won't kill something....the 300 WBY Can not !


Jerry

I forgot that I played with the 300 WSM too. I had a 26" Mod 700 Varminter .308 converted to the WSM. It had an inline magazine, loaded from the bottom. It got fast speeds with the 180 NBT. I set it up for my Pastor in Texas as a "Beanfield" rifle. He never used it that I know of as I had previously given him a Mod 700 SS ADL ( mid 90's) in 7mm Rem Mag and one of the first VIII 4.5x14 AO and he loved it! He always took it, no matter where or when he hunted. He passed away a couple months ago. I miss him very much.

I used to hear about the 6.5x284 having a short neck, even when my rifle was still a wildcat. Necked down .284 brass. I think any neck that is at least 1 caliber long is plenty! Of course, I've never shot a rifle enough to burn out the throat just from a short neck. Only one I fried was a 6mm Remington. Is its neck too short? I shot it slow too, well, not too slow evidently! ha it was a PacNor barrel too, supposedly one of the best. Anyhow, with these new powders, the 30-06, especially in a 24" barrel, can hold its water way out there! I don't own any 30 cal anymore. I plan on wringing this .270W out awhile, along with this 338WM. I don't shoot really long diwstance, but I do like to stomp whatever I'm hunting! ha

IME with 180gr Nosler BT bullets loaded sanely the 300WSM is good for 3000fps, the 300 WM 3100fps, 300 Weatherby 3200fps and the 300 RUM 3300fps. I currently own all of these save the 300 Weatherby.
My favorite right now is probably the 300wsm. It kicks quit a bit less than the others and the particular rifle it's chambered in, which was purchased from forum member Brad, is an absolute drill with just about any load I have tried in it. I used the Barnes 175 LRX this year on one elk with it, my brother on another while I was with him and a friend on a third that I didnt get to see. All of them died pronto. Has me thinking about selling the others honestly.

I can relate to that from a diff rifle and cal.

I had a Ruger 77 tanger in 338 WM -- that thing was BRUTAL. I'd never have another..... Others over the years here have said the same thing.
OTOH you put a 338 WM in a diff stock with a REAL recoil pad and it AIN'T bad.

Jerry

You would absolutely "love" my .338WM Mod 700 Classic with its Limbsaver pad! No worse than a heavy loaded 30-06.

i did notice most of the pictures with dead elk,people with clean dry clothes and a clean rifle must have been shot from a pickup ? yes a 300 Weatherby Mag. will drop them close to the 2 track same as a 300 Win. Mag.

More than a few years back (1994) I thought I needed a all weather 300 Win Mag and found a super clean and little used Remington M700 ss BDL with the 1st gen Tupperware stock. The recoil pad was hard as a rock and the gun would kill at both ends. Later I found a Limbsaver drop in replacement for the original but it still required a lot of hand fitting to work. None the less it reduced felt recoil to a stout 270 load and made the gun much more enjoyable to shoot. MB

Magnum Bob- I used to be a dedicated Decelerator man until I tried the Limbsaver! Wow, what a difference, and the Classic just works with my neck length or build or maybe the way I "hold my mouth right", ha. At any rate, I can shoot some big rounds in them with ease. The "worst" for me was the "Made for Sears" Mod 70 "Ted Williams" 30-06 of my deceased father in law. It also had a hard plastic buttplate. OMB, that thing bit me horribly and he endured "scope eyebrow" every season for 20 yrs! ha. I also tried an early 80's Mod 70 sporter in 338WM I talked a friend into buying...he nor I knew how horrible it kicked! Too much drop and too thin in the comb...or something!

Yeah those pre and XTR M70 stocks with the dinky MC were right out a hell, put a Limbsaver on my 338 and it's now shootable with full throttle loads using the 275 Speer. Sure that is right out there in yowy /owy country. MB

The loading manuals I like best are the last two Nosler Manuals - I have a few manuals. I use Gun Gack 1 and 2 a lot, and Ken Waters Pet Loads Complete Volume, though my choice of bullets don't always jive with the sage - Mr. Waters. I had Handloader and Rifle magazines back to issue one, but lost about half in a move.

Some authors and many early manuals push the limits further than I care to. I've been a little frustrated with the lack of data on RE 26, though that has been improving quite a bit on the internet. I think that RE 26 would be a good option with the heavier bullets in these cartridges.

It seems that Mono bullets were written about in quite a flurry for a while. I have not heard much lately.

My 300 Weatherby is on it's way. I've been at the bench a bit with the Win Mag in the last week or two.

I have a few boxes of 180 grain, 200 grain and 220 grain partitions and a couple boxes of mono bullets of different weights. If I get the notion, I'll shoot dry newspaper with these bullets, but so far the ambition hasn't been there. I'd like to see how much penetration these bullets in the 300's will do.

I have a box of 220 grain Hornady Interlocks, but I've had no luck in any rifle I've tried them in as far as accuracy.

I have to agree with Bwalker on his velocity figures. Have a lot of experience with those 4 cartridges and his numbers are spot on. My favorite is the .300Wby for mainly nostalgic reasons, but also because I love MkV rifles. There is very little that can't be done with a 180gr Partition going 3200fps from an accurate barrel, Cheers....

FWIW- I firmly believe that your choice of 180-200gr Partitions in the .300wby is very good.
Most folks rave about the Accubonds, but I have recovered EVERY one that I have shot into both elk and mule deer, and all have lost a lot of weight. 2 yrs ago in Wyoming I put a 200gr AB from my .300 way into the front shoulder knuckle of a very big bull at 408 yds.
It shattered the shoulder big time, but only penetrated 8". It did not make it into the chest cavity at all and only weighs 59grs. He made it about 40yds and was shot again frontally, which ended it quickly. That bullet was lost in the lung soup.
A better choice would have been the Partition or the Barnes TSX/LRX .......
Next time I will be using a 180 Trophy Bonded Tip as they have shown good performance in my expansion/penetration tests and need more field tests to make any useful determinations. 40yrs of field tests with the Partition has shown me how good they really are......... Cheers

Just to pour gasoline on the fire or FAR as we say in Texas. Which one is more accurate? The Winchester has a proven accuracy record for 1000 yard competition and as a sniper round. The Weatherby has won some matches but you practically never see it on the winners list except maybe in some unlimited guns.

I can't shoot mine worth beans but it is good enough that even with my shooting the 300 Win. appears to be an inherently accurate cartridge, whatever that is. The Weatherby, maybe it's the the misteek that intimadates me, or the mojo is not working, but it seems in my shaky hands to not automatically lay them in there like the Winchester. But not a fair comparison, Weatherby stock doesn't fit me well, all the Weatherby's were factory and all the Winchester had Krieger or other custom barrels.

I’ve owned several in both chamberings and like them both! I prefer the Wby with 200gr bullets just because there’s virtually no powder compaction. And it’s easy 3000 FPS with them makes it a great elk or moose killer at any range. Accuracy in my rifles has been very good with either one, custom stocks and Krieger barrels seem to do that when put together by a competent builder. I guess if limited to just one I’d pick the Wby because I prefer the rifle it’s chambered in.

I remember more than just one writer not being able to get more velocity out of a 340 Wby than the 338 WM. (The same thing was evidently happening with the 300.) See Bob Hagel’s article on the 340 Handloader 77 January - February 1979. Bob mentioned in his 340 article that,
“Most if the data compiled in various reloading manuals for the 340 Weatherby were almost certainly taken with the older softer brass.”
He also mentioned soft brass for the Wby when he had first tested the Wby.

Regarding the 300 see Bob Hagel’s Article on the 300 Wby. - Handloader number 76. November - December 1978.

Bob was writing that he got higher velocity out of the Win Mag than the Wby. He seemed puzzled regarding different velocity issues, 4350 and 4831 and other things. He felt that Weatherby didn’t care so much about case live and that was how they got the higher velocity than Bob did.

Towards the end of the 300 article Bob addressed case strength.

Bob was using Mark V’s in his articles.

Interesting history on Wby vs competitor Winchester.